LOST BUSINESS NOW GROWN STEPSON ISN'T PAYING RENT
Here's my situation. I have shared custody of my high school age son who lives with my wife and I.
Almost exactly 2 years ago my wifes 30 year old son asked to move in with his 3 year old “until he can get the money to get his own apartment”. My wife didn't asked my opinion, I found out the day he moved.in. He eats our food, drinks our tea and is a slob leaving a mess everywhere as he walks. He will wait until 8PM for us to prepare dinner before he’ll feed his son. Don't get me wrong, he can be a good father when he chooses. At the tender age of 30 he's a good father when he chooses to be. His sons mother is a lunatic. Certifiable!
After approximately eight months and a lot of arguing, I put together details with graphs showing cost increases I was incurring as I pay all the bills. When I finally reached my breaking point I demanded he begin paying rent, $80 a week or else. I wrote an agreement explaining the rules and my wife discussed it with him.
The past 2 years have been difficult to say the least, our business wasn't doing well and our financial situation was worsening. Since I pay ALL the bills the cash rent was to be handed directly to me but after months of constantly chasing him for the rent my wife agreed she would collect his rent and I would set up an automatic transfer in the same amount from her bank account whether she got it not. Unfortunately things got really tough and our paychecks were reduced to only combined check.
2 years have passed and there is no sign of his departure. He has easily skipped at least a months worth or rent during this time and every attempt of mine to discuss this with my wife is met with arguing. She lies to me to cover for him attempting to blame herself for his failures.
This past June 2018 we closed the business suddenly and are now living only on savings. Despite her sons complete knowledge of our dire financial situation he stopped paying rent but continues to mooch off of us. She of course didn't tell me I had to ask her a lot of questions to find out.
This past week I gathered up change from my piggy bank and went food shopping so my son would have something to eat. The next day I overheard his son asking him for “more donuts”. I went outside and upon my return found him eating a plate of my donuts. I immediately went to my wife and said “We need to talk”.
As usual she avoided the conversation then asked if I would take a walk. When I brought up my concerns and explained her son needed to pay rent tonight, as usual she turned it on me complaining about how while I was pissed off outside working that I was loud and throwing things which is affecting our grandson. I need some advice. Any ideas on how to proceed? I fear my only choice now is to layt down the law or else.
Is your SS not working??? If
Is your SS not working??? If he is, he needs to be paying something! Maybe it would be easier to assign him a bill (like the electricity) to be responsible for in totality. Also, you guys should draw up a contract for a timeline for him to move out. If he’s been there 2 years and not paid hardly any bills while working a full time job then he should be able to move out soon. Especially if he has custody of his son and not his ex.
RE: LOST BUSINESS NOW GROWN STEPSON ISN'T PAYING RENT
Yes, he has a job, according to his mother a pretty good job. He is a hard worker. I just dont know where he got the idea its ok to stop paying rent particularly after loosing the company. Its only an assumption but he has a new Girlfriend and I think hes blowing his money on her.
I'm totally blown away by all
I'm totally blown away by all of these assumedly grown-up people being utterly unable to have a conversation about hard things with their partners. And with their willingness to baby the hell out of their adult children.
Don't let her distract with what you supposedly did wrong - keep her on the hook. Broken record technique- "what is the plan for your son? If he is unable to pay us rent, he needs to move out." Keep returning to that topic. Or make plans to move out yourself and take your son. Clearly she doesn't care one bit about your feelings or the needs of anyone else in the house but her selfish son.
Ugh, I'm frustrated for you. The other alternative is to simply tell your stepson yourself as the homeowner (I assume) that he has 30 days notice to move out (or whatever the legal time frame is in your area, as he is a tenant legally) and then take him to court and evict him. Personally, I'd choose the move out and let her deal with him method.
RE: LOST BUSINESS NOW GROWN STEPSON ISN'T PAYING RENT
I own (Mortgage) my house. Im at the point of confronting him myself and advising him that his belongings will be removed if no payment. But obviously its a double edged sword, I love my family and if I travel that road I know I will be totally unsupported by the wife. My only choice seems to be accept the shitty outcome and move on. Hoping for a suggestion I havent thought of.
30?
He is 30 and has already brokern one contract. Time for you and DW to give him a deadline of when to leave.
LOST BUSINESS NOW GROWN STEPSON ISN'T PAYING RENT
It seems as though you may be right. Everyone is saying the same thing (I'm an idiot for dealing with any of it).
You aren't an idiot, your
You aren't an idiot, your wife has put you between a rock and a hard place. You can let this go on forever and feel resentful of her, or you can take action on it and she'll resent you. You have to decide which one you can live with.
RE: LOST BUSINESS NOW GROWN STEPSON ISN'T PAYING RENT
I dont know how I didnt see it but now that you've put it that way its seems so obvious. These truley are my only 2 options. Thank You. I'd rather clear the air and move on with whatever becomes of it.
RE: LOST BUSINESS NOW GROWN STEPSON ISN'T PAYING RENT
TO EVERYONE WHO RESPONDED;
Thank You for your input. To be clear my first instinct is just take control of the situation, put wife on notice and directly give SS notice with a date. Im not a delay and hope for best kinda guy. But I suppose Ive been beat down so much over the last few years I've become one. I'm usually accused of being overly blunt or brutaly honest. This is WHY I joined this website hoping for a less confrontational method and insure I wasnt being overly blunt and mean. Any ideas? Please IF I've allowed it to go to far already I'd prefer honesty. Thank You in advance!
Did I read that he pays $80 a
Did I read that he pays $80 a week for rent for 2 people? $320 a month is all and he won't pay it? Are you freaking kidding me? If he has a good job this should be easy for him to come up with and should pay in a lump sum by the 5th of every month rather than you having to get him to cough it up weekly. I hope he is also paying his share of utilities and food.
I don't have a brilliant suggestion that'll make him pay his share and make your wife happy. The BIG issue is the grandson, I'm sure you're wife doesn't want to turn him out. I honestly don't know if I could do it in that situation. What you can do is deal with him directly man to man and lay down the new rules for rent and his fair share of utilities etc.
You wife is weak, I get it, my DH is too. I had to be the strong one and put down my foot about ss33 freeloading off of us a few years back. Everyone hated me but ooooh well, I'm totally over it.
Good luck!
RE: LOST BUSINESS NOW GROWN STEPSON ISN'T PAYING RENT
Still learning-Thank YOU! Thats exactly what I needed to hear. To clarify, yes 80 a week but its for him and his son who he only has custody of on Wednesdays and every other Weekend. He could have more but I believe chooses not to. The deal was 80 per week plus food. Unfortunately the wife allows him to not only skip paying rent but always permitted him to avoid the food aspect of theagreement as if it were never in writing, both of which will be changed by yours truly. Im absolutely certain the wife will fight this but im so fed up with the freeloading and lies that whatever comes will come anyway.
He only has kid every other weekend?
I misunderstood, I thought he had primary custody. So you would not be putting the little guy out on the street. Sit down and have a talk with DW
RE: LOST BUSINESS NOW GROWN STEPSON ISN'T PAYING RENT
Ive been bringing it up for over 2 weeks. Every time I speak of it Im chastized. Ive asked about it multiple times over as many days. Today I asked if he'd paid, wifes reply was "No". I asked if he said anything, wife replied "Yes" then slammed the door as she left the house as if I had no right. She doesnt pay a single house bill. Every time I bring it up I catch hell as if I shouldn't ask at all. She lies to me about it and her regular defense is to yes me until I stop asking, basically lie. Theres no way he cant pay the rent if he acts like any other fiscally responsible adult, which he wont. He always has money tp party and gets take out almost daily. If we dont cook it he orders it. Ive reached my breaking point. My 17 yo son goes without becuase of this nonsense. Im at my wits end and ran out of options a while ago.
Your wife is a terrible
Your wife is a terrible landlord so leave her out of it. You can let her know that you'll be taking over rent collection from here on out. The rent needs to be paid directly to you at the first of the month IN FULL. Sit them down together and let wifey and SS know that this new arrangement is effective immediately. If he gets paid on the 1st then rent is due the first. If he doesn't like it then this is his 30 day notice to vacate. You can also compare what he's paying to comparable 1 bedroom apt in the area, likely he is getting a great deal now.
They are both going to wail, tell you how horrible you are and test your boundaries. You're going to be the bad guy for awhile but I promise it will blow over. The first step is hard but you must take charge of this issue, for your sanity and the well being of your own son. A 17 yr old shouldn't have to sacrifice so a grown 30 yr old man has an easy ride. Time to man up daddy-o.
RE: LOST BUSINESS NOW GROWN STEPSON ISN'T PAYING RENT
Dear Still Learning I agree. Im beyond my limits of charity feeling as though Im being played like a banjo at an Ozark Hodown. Its time to be everybody's Daddy and drop the hammer. Its my wifes reaction that bothers me the most. I know she is depressed from loosing the business and thought she would be in total agreement but to my surprise. Now that I think about it shes been fighting me on everything no how small the issue, hmm. My SS can be sensitive so when asked by the wife may have cried hitting the auto-mom-pitty button. Im guessing of course. Still cant believe shes not on my side and forcing his payment, I just dont understand.
YOU don't have to be the bad
YOU don't have to be the bad guy to leverage SS out. REALITY is going to be your bad guy by proxy.
Maybe your wife doesn't grasp your financial reality. Helping her grasp it doesn't have to be an ugly scene...at least at first.
Make a money chart. Then sit her down, show her how much you have in savings, show her your calculated monthly household expenses, then tell her how long you all can afford your current living situation (i.e. divide your savings by your monthly expenses to equal how many months you can afford the current arrangement).
Then ask what her plan is for your lives after that money runs out. If she is making the financial decision to allow rent to slip by and freeloaders to stay on, then she should be responsible for figuring out how she will afford all of your costs being covered.
It's important that she understand her precious SS and grandkid are also in peril -- meaning, when your money runs out, SS and his kid will be homeless anyway. And so will the rest of you.
If you just resented the cost of SS living with you, that would be a different conversation and an emotional one. Your conversation needs to be a calm one about reality -- there is only so much money left. That's not you being a meanie. That's reality. You don't have to fight. You've both got a big problem and you'll have to address it sooner or later. Addressing it now is better than addressing it when you're all tossed out of your home.
Your SS is an adult. If your relationship allows it, he can be there for this conversation about finances. And maybe he should be -- only you know if he'll get it or not. But it would probably be better to talk alone with your wife, get her on the same page with you, and then you both can figure out how to address SS.
If she gives you any shit, tell her you're looking out for all of your welfare because someone needs to be grounded in reality. Then go back to asking HER plan for your future. Just keep putting the ball back in her court and don't let her out of that room without her plan to stay afloat.
I never do understand why practical matters, such as having money to eat and a roof over heads, become turf wars and "yours and mine" when you're all in this financial situation together.
Good luck. I'm sorry for your situation.
Spot on
You make choices everyday which affect your family. What is your DW's proposal for the next 2 weeks, month, quarter? Mortgage/rent, homeowner's insurance, health insurance, prescriptions, car insurance, gas/oil, lights, sewer, water, heat, internet, phones, car repairs, people repairs ... How long does DW anticipate maintaining a household of 3 adults on savings?
I would put it point blank this way
"wifey, i need you to get a job since ss isn't paying his rent. we have to have money coming in and this seems to be the only way to stay afloat." Then wait and see if she or your ss gets a job.
Your wife is being an a$$hole
Your wife is being an a$$hole about this. Stop worrying about her reaction. Retrieve your balls and use them.
RE: LOST BUSINESS NOW GROWN STEPSON ISN'T PAYING RENT
To Notasm3, I got my Balls back this morning. Thank you!
UPDATE-SS NOT PAYING RENT WENT AS EXPECTED
I attempted to calmly discuss the SS not paying Rent today. Went as expected. She blew up accusing me of always hating her kids then even attempted to bring my 17 yo son into it. "Im tired of his disrespect" she says (Which he isn't). She went ballistic. I waited about 10 minutes and again brought it up to the same screaming result except when she attempted to deflect the 3rd time I wouldn't give so she threatened to leave to which I said Ok, "Leave then". After about 30 minutes of this childish nonsense we discussed it briefly but in the end I may have discovered something terrible. After posting to this site, writing the follow ups and re-reading everything again and again I began asking myself a question. "What is it that I can absolutely count on my wife for"? Whats so terrible? I'm not sure I can come up with anything. ANYTHING AT ALL? WTF. When she gets stressed thats it, sleeps, like all the time. Sex stopped a while ago when she blamed me for something irrelevant. I'm still really upset about all of her statements so I haven't posed the question to her-yet. On the other hand I typed up a letter advising my SS to either cough up the rent or move out. Its waiting for him on his door whenever he comes home. In the meantime I apparently have alot to ponder. I really wish this had gone differently. Now Im exhausted, depressed and wondering if my wife is worth all this aggravation
LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU THINK.
You are being taken advantage of
Yes, it is depressing when you realize that, but try to get through it. There will be someone who loves you for what you are.
"I said Ok, "Leave then"
Good for you! Never allow someone who is supposed to be committed to you to threaten to leave. They will use it over and over again to manipulate you. If DW wants SS to stay and not pay, she needs to get a job.
Just re-key the locks and don
Just re-key the locks and don't give him a key. End of problem. When he or DW bitches... point out the agreement, how much he owes in back rent and tell him to either pay it all in full now or take his shit and leave. No discussion, no extension. Just do it.
Good luck.
He's a 30 year old man with a
He's a 30 year old man with a kid. tell him to FUCK OFF. No more chances. Change the locks. Too bad, so sad. LOSER.
Then I'd demand your wife start to contribute to the houshold or she's out too.
Stop being a doormat.
I would suggest to wife that
I would suggest to wife that she get a job if she wants to cover SS's rent, utilities, and food costs.
I think you should have taken
I think you should have taken my earlier advice and not made this an emotional argument about "hers" versus "yours." Rather than going straight to "your son must move out," you should have shown her the math and asked what her plan is for your finances.
If you didn't show her on paper how the situation is unmanageable, of course she's going to assume this is all about you hating her son.
If you want people to do something, you have to show them what's in it for them. Your collective financial well being was the reason that might have convinced her.
Financial stress is hard on marriages. You might want to back up the talk of divorce. Consider the stress you're all under right now and don't be too quick to chuck it. I don't think you should stay in a marriage that has been bad for years, but if the problems coincided with the financial stress, take time to be sure that isn't the root of the problems now.
LOST BUSINESS NOW GROWN STEPSON ISN'T PAYING RENT
I suppose you didn't read all my posts. I had shown her on paper complete with Graphs. The problem is anytime I bring up $ and her son she would immediately attack me. Both of us worked for the company and both know we have no money. She would be in agreement but when the time came to pull the trigger, well FREAK OUT acting like a child. She takes any criticism of SS as a personal attack on her and lashes out. She is well aware SS needs to be a man and step up. Id catch her talking to her sister saying the same but when push comes to shove, FREAK OUT LIKE A CHILD! All of it has just gotten really old. My 17 YO and I (Not to mention her) just cant be mooched off of any longer.
I read every word.
I read every word.
You wrote that you showed your wife how much extra SS costs you -- and in doing so, you made all your financial problems about SS. You made it an emotional fight about an already-sore subject. That's pretty much exactly what you shouldn't have done. Because in truth, it's not all about your SS. It's about your finances, and part of that is SS, but it's not all about SS. The very important discussion about how you all will stay above water never happened because you turned the fight into "Your son has to move out." Brilliant.
Reread my post about the math. I told you exactly how to show her how much longer you all can afford to live as you are. Then put the ball in her court asking what her plan is to stay afloat.
Your unwillingness to talk about finances except in reference to her son is as bad as her unwillingness to even consider discussing her son in regard to your finances. Good luck with that.
LOST BUSINESS NOW GROWN STEPSON ISN'T PAYING RENT
Ok, SS didnt come home last night so I expect the fireworks today. Posting is still on his door waiting for him. I figure its got to be today. Wifes been overly nice to me after her viscious attack on me for bringing it up. I still havent spoken to her about the attack but its really bothering me. Cant stop thinking about it. Ill advise once the SS comes home.
WIFE GET JOB TO COVER SS
If your wife gets a job to cover SS nonpayment isnt it the same as taking your money anyway? One way or the other its coming out of the same wallet.
SS GETS LETTER-FREAKS, WIFE JOINS IN
Well, As expected the SS came home got the letter and started freaking out, cursing yelling and trying to pick apart every increase his living here causes. It made no sense but of the WIFE Stood next to him, joined in on his behalf and argued each of HIS points with me. Shes got a Square Head and Face for each side. Opinions anyone?
Downsize
Start making plans to sell house and move to smaller, less expensive place. Will BS 17 go to college? Get 2 Bedroom place. If she refuses, stop paying toward house. Put money to smaller place.
RE: DOWNSIZE
I dont think Ill have a choice but to downsize. Honestly this house has become too big and I just want out of all of it anyway. If it werent for my son I may already have had it on the Market. The School District is best in the State though. Still cant believe its come to this?
Whose name is the house in?
Can she hold you hostage? Are there any apartments in the school district or nearby? Where I live, they let seniors finish out the year if the family moves.
UPDATE-SS NOT PAYING RENT WENT AS EXPECTED
Thank you. Thats exactly what I needed to hear. Feeling pretty depressed and betrayed. Whats really messed up now that I think about it is that apparently SS came in giving Wife almost 2 weeks rent, goes to bedroom, gets letter then freaks out. The letter demanded pretty much that amount and a sit down but he dwciswd to move out immediately anyway. Of course the FN Wife handed him the $ back. WTF, All they needed to was reread the letter and discover they were 90% of the way there! But hot heads f' it up. I guess noneof it matters now. Ive been betrayed and just fed up with all the BS.Still wish it had gone differently. Sick of being stressed out.
You need to cut off your wife
You need to cut off your wife’s access to your money. I have a wonderful DH but when he took $1500 out of our checking account without telling me I put a stop on his atm card. Very easy with today’s apps.
CUT OFF WIFES ACCESS
I cut the Wifes Access years ago. Accidentally but I never changed it because of the all too regular threats of Leaving Me. The two things really irritating me are the fact that since the Tiraid, the wife went to hit the Bank Acct (Denied) then returned and went to sleep on the couch? Really? She said she was leaving? Again. I guess not today? Should I call her on the carpet for back stabbing with the SS Now or tomorrow?
I don't have anything to add
I don't have anything to add that hasn't been said, but if you think there is any chance of the marriage being saved, you and your wife need to get to counseling right away. There are problems all around.
Let her leave.....
What kind of marriage is it when a spouse threatens to leave whenever they feel like it!
Tha's no way to live.
I know this is difficult, but you need to take your emotions out of this situation, before you are all homeless.
Find a solution to resolve the money issue and housing situation, everything else is secondary.
I'm sorry your going through this, you sound like a really nice person, who is surrounded by takers.
Good luck with everything.
RE LET HER LEAVE
Mary J, I couldnt agree more. Thats why I never make decisions until after Ive cooled down. My SS moved out last night after being called on the carpet for missing rent. As for my wife and her repeated threats, I asked to leave today. Her face said it all, she couldve shit a brick. When she refused I told her she needed to get a grasp or leave. As for me Im in a better state of mind spending time with my 17 YO. I will take no further action while hes home, 2 days. So we'll see what happens then.
You said you'd take no
You said you'd take no furthur action while he's home...he being your SS?
I think he meant his BS
I think he meant his BS.
Idk what would make you think
Idk what would make you think that given the wording...which was "I will take no further action while he's home." If you inserted 'BS' where the word "he's" is, it wouldn't make sense. That's why I'm wondering who "he" is.
BS = Bio Son
BS = Bio Son
THANK YOU
Thank you to everyone who given me support over the last few days. Even though I don't know anyone its nice to have people to check yourself with. I had been convinced I was always misunderstanding, not listening or just going crazy. Thank You
What a mess. I am sorry you
What a mess. I am sorry you are going through such a tough time. Sorry, I really don't have any advise. It just seems to me that when your dw stood by her son, her actions show her real partner is her son. She should have been standing by YOU!
BELIEVE IT OR NOT IT GOT WORSE!
After all this shit, My wife not only tried to act like nothing happened but lied. He said he paid her 150.00 and she confirmed it as he was screaming FU moving out. Today she must have forgot and says he will be paying and BTW he'll need to stay here tonight because of the grandson!!! They both should have thought about this before hand. But OK, Ill be the man about this because of her 3 yo grandson. My wife has wrecked our relationship, because I knew shes been lying, I started keeping notes. Didnt take long to catch her. AGAIN! I just dont see how this can be fixed. How can I trust her again?
Sorry
Sorry to tell you this, but as you already know your DW is playing games with you. She needs to go. Possibly a temporary separation until things settle a bit?
Has SS been paying the $ to
Has SS been paying the $ to his mom and she has been pocketing it for herself?
RE SORRY
Im so sick of this. Been physically ill since it all started and it just wont stop. OMG, How can somebody do this? I wish there was another way but I agree, I cant continue to live like this. I havw a great relationship with my son, gave him sorta of a heads up this might happen. I have no choice but to tell her tomorrow if not for my own health, I cant allow all this BS to get to him. Been clinching my teeth so hard my jaw his killing me. Thanks for the input. Anyone disagree thats read all this?
Before you do anything rash
Before you do anything rash like booting your wife out, realize that she has rights and can not just be kicked out. You're married and she may be liable for some sort of support to her if she's been unemployed for awhile. I don't know which state you're in and what financial assets the two of you have but divorce/separation could be costly and it may be "cheaper to keep her" and try to work things out. ss30 is out right? It may be wise just to let things cool down and agree to avoid each other for a bit before deciding the next step.
If the 30 year old baybee
If the 30 year old baybee "had" to stay another night it doesn't sound to me like he's out.
Sandye21, I read your blog /
Sandye21, I read your blog / forum thing. I see you were in a similiar situation. Thank you for your experienced input. Unreal how people can take advantage of others to avoid their own responsibilities.
RE: BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING RASH
I Own the house and we never took the walk. Ive had it. The lying is over, its been going on for years and shes been aloof for a longtime. I cant bare to live as a stepmat any longer.
House
In many states, you may have to give long time residents notice to vacate. Unless you have prenup, as I suspecet you have been married close to 20 years, I suspect the house is marital or commmunity property. I could be wrong obviously.
I feel for you and as for
I feel for you and as for your marriage it doesn't seem you have one anymore. Your wife has checked out both physically and emotionally. She's lying to you at every turn and doesn't respect you. Unless you think you can salvage it by counseling you really have to consider ending this charade. Her dramatic theatrics are all a ploy to get you to bend and since you've been doing it for years she continues to do it.
I think she stays because you're her main & only source of income and has no place else to go. I'm glad you took action and are putting your foot down. There is no reason you should be supporting a 30 year old man and his son that comes every so often. I know this reality is difficult but your health & happiness comes 1st along with your 17 year old son.
Your wife and her crotch
Your wife and her crotch dropping are both total user/losers.
NO WAY!!
Since my last entry it seemed like maybe things had chilled a bit. BUT-I was so wrong. In my state of total exhaustion some of the things my wife was saying were slipping past me. See she normally speaks cryptically so you need to be on the ball, no direct truths can come out of her. Apparently without realizing it I had become a recluse-departing from reality to deal with it all. Then I realized the reason my wife so nicely admitted SS was wrong and she was going to talk to him. What I didn't get and must hear is wifes apology for betrayal (Taking SS Side after agreeing). Then I realized it was Wednesday! Moocher SS day for his kid. I asked wife nicely "Why did you wait to say anything"?. Since she wasn't expecting it I suppose the truth spilled out. "Because he (SS) just called" she says. That's the point I realized OMG, Absolutely Nothing Changed! Wife is still playing/using me. Unfortunately I confirmed it this morning with her. Her response was far more robust than the usual Im whats wrong, Im done, etc. Today she brought out her big guns trying to compare my 17 year old to her 30 year Moocher Son saying he is disrespectful and Im "Packing my shit and leaving", etc. So, Im still waiting for her to pack a thing. I also fear far more is going shes a fraud. So if I end up dead, start there.
Help her pack
She wants to leave, help her pack. Grab a few trash bags, fill them up with her stuff, put them outside and get the door re-keyed. She needs to hear, "Leave - now!"