Found a counselor I think I will like
Many of you know the fear of when you first sit down with a new counselor and start to explain your story. You're waiting for the "well, you knew he had children!" "They are poor children of divorce! They cannot help it!" "The first family comes first!"
Today I found one I think I am going to like. Specializes in PTSD and relationships. After she listened to me she said she felt I had PTSD. She said she tells the couples that she counsels that the couple comes first, children come second. She said in no way should I be putting myself in the presence of these women who have not been kind to me. There was no inkling that she considered them poor widdle middle-aged children of divorce who needed to be coddled. She did not think the stepmother existed solely to take abuse from the poor poor children.
I told her I needed help trusting DH again, getting this situation out of my head,and coping techniques.
She said DH showed signs of being an emotionless male with a lot of emotional disconnections, walking around in life with no sense of what he was doing other than following his own wants, but also of being insensitive.
I am going to go by myself for several weeks and then he will join.
When I got home I was hopeful.
The day did not end well though. I had earlier bought tickets to my alma mater's big football game in November since the alumni tickets went on sale this morning. We were at dinner talking and I said maybe we should leave to come home on Monday after the game rather than Sunday. There were things I wanted to do on Sunday in my home town, like go see a friends parents who are elderly and that way DH could spend time with YSD, making it clear I would not be around for that (she lives 2 hours away from where the football game will be).
A few minutes later he asked if he should tell YSD we got tickets to the game and what hotel we were staying at in case she and her boyfriend wanted to go . I told him I made it clear that I would not spend time at all with either of his children, so where did he get the idea I would want to do that. I said I had always tried to be accommodating by adding days to trips, making sure our routes went through the Holy Land (OSD's home), making sure he could see his kids, and it always bit me in the a$$. He said “well you suggested seeing her on Sunday” and I told him I made it CLEAR I would be elsewhere and HE would be seeing her if he chose to do so. I do not know why he does not understand that I do not want to see either of his precious fruit of his loins.
DH truly is so clueless. But apparently I am too for continuing to organize events that somehow include him seeing his children also. I just felt there would be backlash if we set foot in the state, 1,000 miles away, and DH didn't have 1 day to spend with his child. Then I would get accused of keeping him from his children.
When we got home I got a refund on the tickets and cancelled the hotel. Glad I had not booked airfare. I lost all interest in going and will just stay home.
I am delighted
I am delighted that you found a counselor. i am still looking for one, with similar goals as the ones you express. I am NOT delighted with your DH's response. Clueless is right! I completely understand you throwing in the towel on this football game. Disengage, step away, stop planning for him to see his kids—he is a grown man and can do that on his own. You just make your personal and your marriage plans. Go do those things. If he ruins the "date" part of the party, you go to the party solo.
I have managed to disengage from seeing and talking to his children (well, who am I kidding? They never spoke to me anyway), but I have had trouble disengaging from talking to DH about them. I think I was hoping/waiting for him to suddenly, miraculously, say something supportive of me and our marriage. Ha!!!! I must disengage from this, too. I just get that dumb man stare and am then ignored or treated as if I brought up a topic that only a hysterical, unreasonable person would bring up. I have to remember that many men react best to consequences, rather than to verbal requests and arguments. Just do. Just go to the game by yourself. Just take yourself away for the weekend, especially if he wounds you with his cluelessness and his callousness. I am trying to say, at least to myself, " Well, THIS conversation isn't giving me anything kind or compassionate. I think I'll move on to...Netflix. Facebook. A phone call with a friend. Chocolate. ANything but waiting for this guy to develop empathy." Good luck to you!!!! Your story helped me think tonight.
We are married to the same man!!!
"A few minutes later he asked if he should tell YSD we got tickets to the game and what hotel we were staying at in case she and her boyfriend wanted to go." This is just like something my DH would say - and I know damned well he knows what he is doing. It's as if he is trying to wear you down. You have to explain it so many ways so he 'understands' and in the end you get so frustrated that you cancel the plans all together. Have you ever wondered if THAT was what he wanted all along? That he was going to teach you a lesson - if he couldn't have his way he would make sure that YOU didn't get what you wanted either? How about going on your own, hang out with friends, and leave him at home? If he protested I'd tell him he seemed so uncomfortable with your plan that you thought it would be easier for him to stay home - "Or, would you like me to make separate reservations for you to fly to SD's house?"
I won't go into detail but my DH tried something similar to this. I have told him "No" to a piece of artwork he wants me to give to someone - several times. I have done free detailed artwork for this person in the past. Today he did it in front of my friends. When I asked why he would do this, he gave me the same lame of sort of B.S. your DH said to you after you had repeatedly said "No". I called him on it and told him not to do it again. And guess what? I'm selling that painting, and I will make sure he knows I am spending the money on something really special for myself! LOL My DH has had a lot of 'learning experiences' from his passive-aggressiveness in the past. Guess he's due for a refresher course.
DH wouldn't want me to cancel
DH wouldn't want me to cancel these plans to the game; he loves these games as much as I do. I don't think mine is the type that would teach me a lesson. I don't think he knows how to think like that. I think he only thinks about what he wants - like a mouse following a block of cheese - but never thinks about right/wrong, proper/improper. He is always thinking about his wants and also how to protect himself so his comfort is not compromised. Those two things.
I think he now associates my home state with YSD who now lives there. So any time we go to that state, especially now as I have aunts/uncles who are aging, there is going to be an expected visit to YSD. That is fine as long as I am left out of it. And I will no longer be the trip coordinator of how that gets worked in.
Sorry
Sorry, SacrificialLamb, when I posted last night I was so mad at DH my nostrils were still touching my ear lobes. My DH also makes his own wants and needs as his first priority. I agree with most of the other posters who suggest saying, "No". I also think you came up with a good solution of informing him you are going to your home state and will be doing things with others which will give him the opportunity to make arrangements to visit with his DD. Also, as Sammi suggested, reminding him that the game is your couple time only.
It is only occasional now, but my DH will resort to passive-aggressive behavior to get his way. He seems to have a small crush on his SIL. When we go on trips he wants to buy something for her. I say "No" every time. He had already 'chimed in' that I should give a painting to SIL several times. When he did it in front of my friends it made me wonder what was the purpose of it.
Have you ever asked your DH why he continues to include SD in your 'couples' time after you have continually told him that you would rather not? In my case, I wonder how many times I am going to just smile and say, "No." This is a grown man.
So glad you've found a
So glad you've found a therapist who seems to understand what this poo is all about, Lamby.
I have to agree with the poster who suggests that you stop trying to incorporate skid visiting opportunities with trips. Or at least point out to your H that you've tried to be accommodating and considerate of his wishes, but based on his refusal to acknowledge your boundaries, you'll be taking more solo trips.
Emotionless males/emotionally disconnected males - this certainly applies to my own H. I'll be chewing on this description for a while.
I agree no more facilitating,
I agree no more facilitating, organizing, our trips in manners where he is able to see his kids. But what do I say when the inevitable happens "we were two hours away from my kid so why couldn't I see her????".
Maybe I have to make a general statement ahead of time:
"We will be in my home state from this date to this date. We will be going to the football game on this date. I will be doing X on these other dates, and you are free to do whatever you want. " And leave it at that. If he doesn't make the plans to see YSD, then that's his problem.
But even if I say this, he still likely will ask about his DD coming to the football game. He just thinks that since other people's behavior rolls off of his back and he has no standards for how people treat him, that I should not either.
And yes, in general, I am planning more solo trips away from him.
What I found that worked
When I told my DH that I had decided to "stop presenting myself to be bullied" he got why I was disengaging from his children. I am lucky; he immediately understood that and does not pressure me to see them. They are grown, so they don't have visitation (I swear if they had been younger I would not have married him). Thank the good goddess! They are out of state, so opportunities to see them don't appear often, thankfully. I encourage DH to go see them on his own, thanks to the support of many people on this forum. I know he grieves the idea of a "big happy family" and wishes his children would hang out with us in the way that mine (all grown, too) do. He has fun with my kiddos and wishes we could do the same with his. I did tell him that if his daughter arrived with her baby, wearing a big grin, handed me the baby, said it was nice to see me, popped into the kitchen and kissed him and asked about his health, his life (anything that wasn't about her), that I would welcome that with arms open wide. He got that, too—because her presence is NOTHING like that. She is nearly 35 but is sullen, pouting, radiating hostility--for no cause, other than her original family split up years ago and then her father remarried. So: disengage, disengage, disengage. Your idea to go to your home state and plan solo fun so he can go see SD--perfect!
I had given him time to spend
I had given him time to spend with YSD - Sunday, out of the three days we would be there. I made it clear I would not be involved. Not sure why he assumed that meant I would want to spend Saturday with them. He's that clueless. He just heard "my home state", where YSD now lives, and turned the trip into being about her. Because that is what he wants.
I can't say with him that it's sinister .... he is just emotionally detached and protective of himself. I think due to his emotional detachment that was ingrained into him, his two daughters and ex knew how to manipulate to get what they wanted, and they developed into the people they are as a result. YSD has some good qualities and has some appreciation for what she has. OSD just wants more more more.
I am not spending a second of time with any person if I am not certain I will be treated with respect and kindness. YSD would be sappy with friendliness towards me, which would make my DH so happy. I've seen that beaming so many times. He won't pick up on the snide comments about me not being able to see the grandkids - what a shame since they are so awesome - nor will he recognize the fishing expeditions attempting to get any interesting information that can be shared with the rest of the family. If I point it out to him, as he requested before that I do, he will just deny it and a huge fight will start.
He doesn't care in general how people treat him so does not understand why I have standards.
Yes over the years I was sickeningly accommodating. And yes, the PTSD is real.
When he "asked" if he should
When he "asked" if he should let SD and BF know....just say "No, we have made plans and you can arrange plans with your DD outside our plans". Just that simple and then stick to it. This is what I do, after 8 years of training myself.
I get it, believe me. I was "sickeningly accommodating" for 30+ years. When I began my disengagement from SD57 and SGD34 (mother/daughter) 8 years ago, it was pure hell with DH. I let it go on for too many years, it was next to impossible to correct this entire mess. Now, 8 years later, he gets the point, thus he never stops trying. I do not want to be involved in his relationship with SD57 nor SGD34. He has always been welcome to spend any time, any place, as long as he wishes, with his children and grandchildren. The problem was, I was to be there to accommodate anything they all wished, not now.
The key to my disengagement and our relationship surviving; I had to learn to say "no" in a earnest, diplomatic tone; then I stick to my decision no matter. Further discussion, after the word "No" only lights the fire and it becomes an ugly conversation and fight. I just say "No, you go ahead and enjoy". I have spent holidays, along with many broken plans alone, because I will not break down and go back to what DH and SD want me to do. I am never going to subject myself to the aggression and then I would have to begin again with disengagement. NOT.
When SD and family stop by to visit DH (because he is disabled), I am civil, but nothing else. I do not hostess, visit, or accommodate any of them; I don't even show them out. They found their way in, they can show themselves out. I am set on staying with my disengagement and DH knows that, so he has to accept it and get over it.
That said, it will be a life time goal to continue my disengagement as long as I am married to DH, of course SD57 and her family are always part of the equation, as in your marriage, and many of us here on this site. Each of us have different situations, therefore, they are handled differently, but hopefully with a positive result.
I feel your frustration and am sorry you have to deal with this. The only things I can say; you may have to go this alone, such as I did. Have other counselors, such as friends for lunch and family to spend time with. I do this. I also have so many hobbies and am busy caring for DH, so I don't have time to think about SD. She's history in my life and I hardly think about her evil ways, unless she appears on my doorstep, which is not often.
I have never related SD with my marriage. In fact, I tried for years to get DH to keep it all separate; he is the one that would put SD ahead of anything we had planned in life. Therefore my DH created the problem, so now he lives with the results of his DD's jealousy. Our marriage was years after her personality development, created by DH and BM; not my problem.
Just a few thoughts for your next visit with your counselor; keep in mind this is a goal for your happiness and to keep your marriage peaceful, not a goal for your SD and DH's relationship.
(((hugs))) Stay here with us too. We are pulling for a solution for your peace.
Today was my second session
Today was my second session with the counselor, and it ended up being kind of rough and thought provoking. I have to say I struck gold with this counselor and I am stunned to find her where I live.
But your approach, Sammi, is what she said I need to work for. Getting to the point where I unemotionally say "no, these are our plans and you can make your own plans to see DD." Getting to the point where I don't feel horribly violated because he's attempting to cross over one of my boundaries, seeing what he can get away with, and then a war erupts. Just saying NO and moving on.
I hope I am capable of it; I have a lot of emotions to manage.
Must be good to have a good counselor
How did you find a counselor? Sure, I know there are directories online. But there are many family therapists out there. Does your therapist help you sort things out, discover things you didn't know? I'm sure that I must have PTSD too. I might want a counselor, but not for the purpose of finally getting DW to face reality (as in, see, the counselor even says that: you're a permissive parent, you have an enmeshed relationship with your son, you should consider what DH is saying to you, etc.) I mean, a counselor would only be for me, and I already know what my situation is. I think I might need a lawyer instead, who can talk to me about the ins and outs of leaving when the skid turns 18 and I am no longer "abandoning" a mother with a minor child and there might not be alimony, or less of it.
I'm so happy to hear about
I'm so happy to hear about your new counselor! That's great news.
Why not take this football game situation to the counselor next time you go? You shouldn't have to avoid things you love because they're in SD's state. Ask your counselor how to handle this so you can enjoy things in your home state on your terms and your husband and SD won't get in the way. Even if you can't reschedule this trip, this will get you ready for the next one.
I would love to read next week that your counselor helped you figure this out and the trip is back on! You deserve it!
^^^THIS^^^
Yes, SacrificialLamb. Please share the advice of the counselor. What I am doing with DH is obviously not working and I could use some good advice. I know the persent problem doesn't have too much to do with Skids but it could move on to that if it continues.
This definitely will be
This definitely will be discussed with the counselor in addition to his jerk demeanor in resolving the issue.
Why is it so hard for some men to admit they misunderstood the discussion? Once he realized he had misunderstood, he stuck the tail between his legs and went silent. He's in his mid-60s for God's sake.
Maybe he needs this shirt. https://www.amazon.com/Wrong-There-Wrongness-Funny-T-shirt/dp/B075VDLF4G...
Just kidding. But really sick
Just kidding. But really sick of it.
Maybe PTSD isn't the word?
Maybe stepfamily situations don't result in Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. I'm saying this because a quick skimming of this subject on the internet says it's caused by being in accidents, violent attacks, wars, etc. What I have might just be "death by a thousand paper cuts." Stepfamily life is a slow grinding down of my will to live (I'm exaggerating here, to make a point). More like Post Long-Term Annoyance and Harassment Disorder?
Check out 'Complex' PTSD
Please check out 'Complex' PTSD. It definitely fits "death by a thousand paper cuts."
Love this analogy, "death by
Love this analogy, "death by a thousand paper cuts.” That can so easily be the life of a SP, can’t it? This is part of the reason why I get so pissed when people say things like, “Just suck it up and take it. It is only 10 minutes or 30 minutes.” You add all of that up, and yeah, you wind up with a slow death, by a thousand paper cuts.
Lamby, I think your DH, like mine and like so many others, wants you to go with him as a buffer. This is yet another one of many ironies of being a SP. Everyone accuses you of hogging all of DH’s time, but it is actually DH who is begging you and wanting you to go. Then, once you go with him, he’ll turn around and act like you are not there, or are off to the side somewhere vs. his wife or SO. Truth is, I think a lot of these men are afraid of their children. Sure, they love them to pieces, but in many cases, especially if they divorced when the kids are young, they don’t really know them, and don’t really know them as adults.
Thus, they want their wife (mommy) there to protect them from the unknown. Once they arrive, and everything seems OK, they more-or-less could care less about their wife being there, and instead focus on putting on a show for the kids and grand-kids. Sad, but too often true. This is yet another reason to just let DH go alone, if he so chooses. If he wants to go that bad, and he may and they are his own children, he can face the music himself.
Oh this ^^^^^^^^^! I remember
Oh this ^^^^^^^^^! I remember when the X would 'take' me to visit the exOSD and we would arrive at the front door. He would open the door and then stand back for me to go first. Many would see this as him being the gentleman, but I always felt like he was just shoving me into the lion's den! It was the same when we ate out- I always got the seat near the skids and he sat at the end! After a while I cottoned on and pretended I'd left something in the car so he had to go first. I hated those trips.
Hi Lamby,
Hi Lamby,
You are trying to assist his relationship, to be kind to your DH. He is taking advantage of your kindness. I agree with Sammigirl just say no, this is couple time, end of discussion. After you make your point about a trillion times, he may start getting it, lol.
Sounds like you have found a counselor many of us, including you, will benefit. Please keep us posted on her comments. I wish she did virtual sessions....;-)
It isn't amazing, isn't it of
It isn't amazing, isn't it of how some DH's do not pick up on the snide or rude comments made by the adult steps?. I tend to think it is just a case of selective hearing.
My DH would ignore all the rude comments or actions the adult skids made at public or family functions, even when those comments were made about him and directly at him.
I feel bad for you it has got to the point of counseling with your DH, but am sure plenty of good will come out of the counseling. I agree with you in not wanting to spend any time with anyone who will not treat you with respect or kindness. I don't either and never plan on ever doing it either.
The, what I call, Post Traumatic Skid Disorder is real. Around holidays, I sometimes get anxious about the adult skids trying to ruin yet another holiday for DH and I, like they have before. Or, if adult skids are in town - I have flashbacks of when the times they were in town and tried to manipulate DH and break us up. OSS, wife and gskids were in town a little while back this year and tried and tried to get DH to do something with them and the other adult skids, excluding me of course. DH at one point had to tell them to "not go there" for whatever they were talking about. Then, they all went to DH's workplace to beg him leave work and join them for various outings. DH kept declining. DH told me he will be glad when they all go back home to where they live. Such an awful way to feel about some of your family. I feel bad for DH and hope the stress of their visits in them does not affect his health in any way. The nerve of them to bother DH at work, when they all know how busy he is. They don't care, as it is always about them, whenever they come around the area.
Best of luck to you with everything
Yep- the X and OSD were the
Yep- the X and OSD were the same, now they have each other and no longer have me to focus on they probably don't even speak!