All of them or none of them
Hello,
Please forgive me if I get the acronyms wrong, I am not uses to these types of forums. None of my friends could possibly understand where I am coming from, so I thought I would give this a shot.
DH is 20 years older than me, I have no kids of my own. He has 4 kids, one is an ex SD from a previous marriage who is quite a bit older than his kids and closer to my age. They are all adults. I get along well with the younger three, but reached the end of my rope with the ex SD a few years ago (manipulation, lies, harming the younger kids, drugs, constant meddling and getting everyone into arguments and most importantly coming between DH and I with lies and manipultion). I do not want her in my life or my house and I don't want to be in hers. DH understands, agrees and sees her on his own and with the other three kids, but not with me. We all live in the same town.
The problem is special ocassions. It started as a small issue but over the years has grown into a giantic mess. We have tried a few arrangements, but for the most part, the four kids spend the holiday with their BM, while DH and I spend the holiday by ourselves or with friends or my family and then he spends the next night with the four of them celebrating holidays at restaurants. I was fine with it but DH grew tired of it. He wanted us to come together as a complete family and was willing to let Ex SD know that she would no longer be invited to major events because of all of the disruption that she causes at them. She said she understood but was not happy about it. His three kids agreed at first because she has caused so much pain over the years and they understood why DH and I had had enough. Eventually, she met with each of them and subsequently, they each contacted DH to let him know that they thought that it was disapointing and inappropriate to invite some but not all of them. Their belief is that each sib gets a seat at the table for life, no matter what.
As you can imagine, he felt horrible. He wanted a family unit and now things had gotten worse. We still have not been able to agree on a plan going forward. He does not want to go back to separate holidays with his kids but not me, but I have refused to spend my holidays with the ex SD. It has been suggested that the three kids will have three celebrations per holiday (one with me and DH, one with DH and ex SD, and one with all four of them and their mother). This seems crazy to me, and it doesn't help me when it comes to every other life celebration. His birthday is coming up in a couple of months and as usual I either have to tolerate ex SD or not invite her which makes me look like the antichrist and puts extreme strain on my relationship with the other three. I wouldn't say that the other three have thrown down an ultimatum but I feel like it is getting close. They have decided that they do not want to leave her out.
I really can't do this anymore. The thought of spending the rest of my special occasions with her feels like a life sentence. I love DH so much but I would rather jump out the window than sit in the room with her. I feel like there are no good solutions. Obviously, the last thing that I want is to ruin my DH relationship with his children.
I ran my thoughts past two friends and learned quickly that I should not say these things out loud because it makes me look evil and maybe I am, but wondering if this group has a different POV. My thoughts are, why does ex SD have to be a part of everything or honestly, even anything? Why are we not allowed to build our own family without her? 1. She is an adult in her thirties. 2. She is the one who made the mess. 3. She still celebrates every holiday with her half siblings and BM - everything is the same for her except DH is with me now and not them. 4. If I am not forced to spend the rest of my life with his ex wife's mother, why do I have to spend it with her daughter. Yes, I know that #4 makes me sound like a monster. I get it. I didn't start out this way but I have become extremely resentful and bitter to say the least over the past ten years.
Has anyone experienced a similar situation? Do you have any creative ideas? In addition to holidays, I would especially love to hear how others have managed birthday parties, special celebrations, random family gatherings, game nights, etc.
Has she apologized and
Has she apologized and attempted to make amends for her previous behavior? Has she committed to not acting that way in the future? Do you want to give her another chance?
Yes, she always apologizes
Yes, she always apologizes and commits to not act that way in the future. She has not made amends but she always tells DH that she likes me a lot and wishes we were closer. That has been her story since day one. I am not willing to give another chance.
There is a chance that she just can't help herself and then feels bad later. I think it is more likely that she is just an average sociopath who is willing to say anything to get back into the room and meddle.
She usually only has issues with one person at a time and then directs her energy toward getting everyone else to have issues with that person. It could be me, it could be DH, it could be a grandparent, it is very frequently her BM. BM and Ex SD are cut from the same cloth. Those two go from being best friends to viscious mortal enemies about four times per year and the damage that they cause to each other is way worse than anything they have done to me. It is wild.
It Is Not Required OF You To Give Her Another Chance
and I'm glad you recognized that.
It seems like she just must cause friction, and it's as if she thrives on it. Most sociopaths do.
This just sounds so very exhausting. Indeed, a "life sentence" of misery each holiday season.
Nobody that loves you should
Nobody that loves you should require you to accept toxic behavior from someone else as a condition for being with them. That simply is not love.
Is any of these people
Is any of these people willing to , in the moment, point out her behavior and tell her to knock it off ? Are you left defending yourself with no back up? You can only tolerate "that's just the way she is" for only so long before you realize you just can't do it. It doesn't mean your weak(no matter what they tell you or make you feel about yourself). She causes drama and they let her. Have no more events at your place. Drive separately and leave when she acts up. Put it out there in all it f'd up glory and stop sweeping it under the rug. Let them know your new rules. Also research the drama triangle and relational aggression in adults.
One last thing. You are an adult as she is. If she can't act like an adult, there is no reason why you have to tolerate her. She's given you plenty already, if she was going to change like she said she would, you would experience that. I had to set hard boundaries with my MIL and I stopped going to family events. It took a few years but I started going back very slowly and I was treated differently. My DH also had/has my back. Can you say that about your DH?
They are not willing to do
They are not willing to do that in the moment. She is always reprimanded but not in the moment. DH does not like confrontation and to be honest, neither do I. I also never felt like it was my place to say anything to any of his kids. It is a rocky relationship to begin with.
Anyway, we are past that. I have taken too much for too long. I can't be in the room. The idea of being in a room with her makes terrified and physically ill at the same and I can't do it. Even if I wanted to do it more than anything, I just can't.
Direct and immediate
Direct and immediate confrontation in public when she pulls her shit solves the problem. You attend at your DH's side and when toxic fake daughter pulls her shit, call her on it immediately.
Make sure DH recognizes that you will not tolerate her crap and will shred her immediately and if does not want her destroyed he had better keep her under control before you have to.
She is not family, and she is not your DH's family. She is his daugthers' half sister. Unlike her half sisters she has to continually earn access to your blended family. Remind DH of this and when she goes toxic at family events, remind her of this fact brutally, publicly, and continually as long as her crap lasts.
Some times pain is the only way to effectively drive change.
Bring the pain, drive the change.
Ha, I love that but we are
Ha, I love that but we are way past that now. No matter how much I want to keep my relationship and how much I do NOT want to live alone and start over, I just can't bring myself to be in the room with her. You know how you see people in movies who want to try bungee jumping but no matter how badly they want it they just can't get their body to actually jump? Thats how I feel. I don't want my relationship to be over but I cannot bring myself to be in the room with her. I wish I were stronger.
Updates
DH has offered two options. 1. She will not attend any future events, but he will host/celebrate two of everything. He does not want to spend a Thanksgiving, Christmas, Birthday, etc without her so he will host one event with me and his children if they want to attend (it is unlikely that they will) and one with her and his children. Option two is to end the relationship and move on with our separate lives.
We spoke to two couples therapists and they both believe that his offer is fair and reasonable. They communicated to me that I should not care how many holidays he wants to host or who he wants to spend his time with and that I was being controlling. I never said he couldn't see her. He sees her all of the time. During the times that he put her in a box for her bad behavior, she would drive to our neighborhood constantly to "take a walk" and walk past our house and or sit outside of the coffee shop down the block because out of the hundreds of coffee shops that suddenly became her favorite place to go.
I obviously have a lot to think about and a lot of soul searching to do. Including her in our events is just not an option. It makes me physically ill to even think about it. I ran into her on the street a few months ago and I almost passed out. I just can't do it. I just can't.
Since I have now heard from two therapists that I am causing the problem here, I have to accept that. I don't know why I can't accept two of everything but I just can't. I feel like I can't bring a baby into this, it is absolutely insane. I asked if he could host Christmas and Thanksgiving with me and our future kids and then host some sort of in between holiday with her and his kids. He said no. I offered that he should make Easter and Fathers Day and Labor Day or whatever else he wants all about her but just to spend Christmas and Thanksgiving with me and our family without the drama. Without cutting a turkey with me and then going to her house to cut a turkey. Without him and the kids opening presents with me and then saving half of them to go to her house to open them. She isn't their mother? Also, to point out the obvious, they also host all of these events with their mother so this is actually three of everything from their perspective. It just seems crazy to me but no one else seems to think so. He has refused to do anything other than what he offered with two of everything and believes that I am just trying to be cruel to her and his other children by keeping them apart during the holidays.
This is a chronic and exhausting circular argument that seemingly has no end. We are both at the end of our rope.
He has moved out while I make my decision.
I say you give up this
I say you give up this rediculous relationship. He is choosing an ex step kid over you.
You are already giving up a lot, given he is 20yrs your senior and tbh having kids with him wouldn't be a good idea, just based on age. Throw in all this other crap.... no.
Go find a man closer to your own age and preferably childless - at a minimum one that isn't dragging an ex step along.
Bleh. You are better than all this.
All things I have shared with
All things I have shared with our therapist, lol. She said that I am using things that I gave up for our relationship as weapons and that those were decisions that I made. We have delayed having kids to get his to a better place first but also because we have been fighting about Ex SD for so many years that it never felt stable enough to actually move forward and I was really hoping that one of those times she was kicked out would be for good but she always finds her way back in.
Not using them as weapons..
Not using them as weapons...pointing out the extreme lopsidedness of the relationship!
It's all good as long as YOU are making the accommodation, but your husband...not so much.
It doesn't make you a bad
It doesn't make you a bad person to not want to deal with all this. He sounds a little rigid too, IMO.
Also, i am picturing your DH as kind of a douche in all this. Aren't you and ex SD about the same age? He probably should just find himself a woman his own age with similar baggage to him. Idk, he just seems really immature and dumb to even be in this situation between ex SD and you, neither of whom he is related to.
Yes, we are the same age. And
Yes, we are the same age. And want to take one guess as to who he is with right now? He couldn't find a friend to talk about his problems with? I feel like moving out was painful enough. I asked him who he is with and surprise surprise. It feels like throwing salt in the wound. I am disgusted.
Let him stay gone. Him moving
Let him stay gone. Him moving out then going to stay with her says it all. This chick will always be around.
ETA it would be one thing if you were asking him to never speak to her again, but him insisting on spending every single holiday with her and all his other kids together seems very rigid. Like, even minor ones like Labor Day. Idk. I feel like you will never have the place of a spouse while she is around. Him leaving you and running to her proves it.
And i get that he has these traditions with all of them and doesn't want to change that. That's fine, but if her behavior toward you was that bad and you really just can't be around her even after 2 therapists, move on, leave them to it, and find someone with less baggage or baggage that doesn't make you want to vomit.
I know it's easier said than done, as i'm in a similar situation. Not quite as bad as yours in that we aren't married, don't live together, etc. But i get it. I don't think you are 100% in the wrong as the therapists seem to tell you. Therapists are people too and aren't infallible.
Are you 100% sure their
Are you 100% sure their relationship is father - SD only? Sorry - had to ask.
Your DuH didn't offer you two
Your DuH didn't offer you two options, he gave you an ultimatum, either you accept her or he walks away. Frankly, I'd let him go, he isn't worth the grief.
As for the "therapists" that you saw, they clearly had no idea of what steplife can be, either that or (and?) your DuH sugar-coated the situation. Not all therapists are equal in all fields.
I also put it to you that his kids don't take you seriously because you are not much older than them therefore they see you as being on their level. Your DuH appears to think like that too because he is NOT putting you first as his spouse and life partner.
"He has moved out while I make my decision."
In other words, he's moved out until you comply with what he wants and doesn't give a damn about you. Let him stay gone.
To be clear he is in an
To be clear he is in an AirBnB but invited her over and she is there.
I agree, she is dug in like a tick and will be for life.
Most of my hatred isn't even what she has done to me it's what she does to him and everyone else. She went through one of many rough patches a few years back and almost everyone in her life had had enough. No more friends couches to crash on, no men left to give her money, etc. She ended up spending her evenings with her 16 year old half brother and his friends. Supplying them with drugs and alcohol. And was caught doing something that very likely was or was leading to sex with her half brothers 16 year old friend. She was 27. Everyone else got over it but I can't. Her life was wrecked so let's wreck these kids lives too. Her brother dropped out of high school a year later and moved in with her. Who do you think thought it was a good idea to drop out? When she is down she wants to drag everyone else down with her.
Men who use their daughters,
Men who use their daughters, bio or not, as confidants are very unsexy. And you know he's told her exactly why he's staying in an AirBnb.
Please don't bring an innocent baby into this toxic situation.
She sounds like a piece of
She sounds like a piece of work. I know the type - I have a SD who offers her (very bad) "advice" to her siblings that they blindly follow because they idolise her and it is infuriating to watch - particularly since my SO thinks that the sun shines out of SD's backside. Your intuition has told you to hold off starting a family with your DH because of her. Your gut is there to alert you to danger. You know what the decision needs to be.
Make sure you implement a
Make sure you implement a scorched Earth policy on your way out. Take anything and everything, get the most cut throat killer shark attorney you can find and set up consults with all of the top 10 divorce attorneys in your area to take them off of the table for him.
Get it all, and get on with your life.
That his confidant and at least emotional incest partner is his XSD is so nauseating that I would puke on his shoes on the way out of the final divorce hearing if I were you.
Demanding that your mate is at your side and you at his is not controlling or weaponizing your past choices. It is the basis of a quality marriage. You have found idiot therapists. Next time, find a quality therapist who recognizes that they work for you and will work with you to accomplish your therapy goals. The comment of these couldn't get a real degree or have a real career morons you have engaged as your therapists about how it should not matter who your DH spends his time with labels them unequivocally as idiots. smh
Good luck, enjoy your new life adventure.
I don't see how what you're
I don't see how what you're asking is wrong, and I don't see how you're the problem here. I'm no therapist, but I don't think the ones you saw have any notion of step life dynamics. But you'll never convince your Dh of that.
There is NOTHING wrong with wanting your husband to spend the entirety of an important holiday with you and any future kids. The logistics of planning two of every major holiday is exhausting (three if you count BM). How does that work, major meals and celebrations for breakfast, lunch, and dinner? "Oh, sorry, Lucy, sorry to leave you with all this mess and cleanup, but I have to be at SD's in 15 minutes. Enjoy the rest of your day." That's crazy. Your DH must love all the swirl and attention this puts on him.
I'd have to take myself out of this equation too.
I would sack these
I would sack these "therapists" to start with. They tell you that YOU are controlling??
What about your husband and the ultimatums he has laid out? They don't see that as controlling? Wow...
I agree with someone else above who said leave him and find someone closer to your own age. Someone who will put you first and want to build a life/family with you.
I like family occasions and celebrations as much as the next person. But I don't insist that my adult sons come to everything. I always tell them that the invitation is open and would love to see them but if they can't make it, that's fine. It seems like your husband is rigid about having his ADULT kids (including disruptive SD) there to celebrate EVERY holiday/occasion with him.
For God's sake! They are adults and have their own lives. Don't they??
I just read your posts again.
I just read your posts again. Clearly, your husband has never and will never put you first.
He is obsessed with his SD....hmmmm yeah I would be wondering about the exact nature of their relationship too...
Look at the longer term picture
You may find it best to step back from all the detail, and see clearly that this is not a suitable father for your children. Of course he may have some attractive qualities which brought you into the relationship, but hun, this guy is treating you very badly. He is not going to change. Cut and run while you are still of child bearing age, or these vampires will waste your best years.
The fact you choose therapy makes me wonder how these fools have convinced you it is all your fault! You are normal, they are dysfunctional and cruel. Scrap the therapy and just exercise your common sense. Stop clinging to the silly hope that if a therapist could just tell him to change his behaviour - he somehow will? - Therapists are not football referees, their only value is to help you see the facts...and some of them are not even good at that much.
This man is stuck in a whirlpool with way too much baggage to offer you the attention you simply need as a wife and mother. Look after YOU first, leave this poisonous family in your dust, and plan your departure without drama. In fact, by experience I would think it very wise to only confide in your attorney in case things turn nasty or he hides money if tipped off about your departure. Cut. And. Run.
I had to do this ten years ago and can say things do improve after the initial shock of walking away. Learn to love yourself #1 and don't let others impose their craziness on you. Good luck, you will do well.