Your fiance is right. You can't expect her to just "fit right in" to your old family and still feel comfortable. Its not going to happen. She is right in expecting you to leave your past in the past and create a new family with her, HER family, and your kids and YOUR family. The ex and her family should not fit into that equation. The co-parenting relationship should be business-like and cordial. I thinks its fine if you don't have anything through the courts if you guys get along and agree, but there should definitely be some kind of informal schedule in place. It would not be fair to your future wife to have to always make her plans around your ex's schedule. Thats way too much inter-mingling. I don't blame her one bit. If you cannot fathom doing what she expects, then you are not ready to move on and create a new family...you're obviously still playing family with your ex. Make a decision. Good luck

"I child proofed my whole house, but they STILL get in!"

melis, in the future he is going to be very old and very lonely because no sane woman is going to put up with this. He needs to do her a favor and discontinue the relationship instead of leading her on and trying to convince her that what he is doing is right.

My question for you is this: when you're off with your exW playing 'happy family' - where's your fiance? You've gone into alot of detail of how much fun you had with the ex and her family last night, but where was your fiance?

I sure as all heck would NOT be a happy camper if the man I was engaged to was spending New Years' Eve with his ex and her family.

You also said it's been 2.5 years since your separation - so are you divorced yet?

I have to say, there is zero way I would accept the situation you offer.

You need to either commit fully to this woman or let her go - actually, this goes for both of them, your ex and your 'fiancee'. It is selfish to expect them to 'share' you IMHO.

Maybe there is someone who would accept this, but I have never known one! Good luck with this, you will need it!
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"The movies are the only business where you can go out front and applaud yourself." -
Will Rogers

Melis is right. And alot of toehr posters here are right.
You will have a difficult time finding a woman who will share this type of lifestyle both you and yoru ex have created. This is why your ex has her bf living apart from her and most likely will never marry and most likely will break up.
Its fine and dandy for your kids. Great. But you guys will both never move onto to other relationships. You may have never married but you might as well.

Now I have not read the other responses wanting to give to give you my unbiased opinion. The degree of closeness that is shared with your x would probably not work for me, it might but probably not. I would feel I do want more of our own holiday spent with my and my spouse's family rather then my dh's x's family not from a place of hate but just to enjoy that with my own. That being said I do not think the way you and you x have opted to raise your kids is wrong AT ALL and it is probaby wonderful for your kids. So if you want to continue in that way, and you may just want to for the sake of your children, I think you should consider staying unmarried or find a partner who would be comfortable with how things are. I do think your kids would be hurt to have the nice setup you have for them now gone so making that sacrifice for them might be the right choice.

My belief is that children are under the adults. Not above. You obviosuly hold your children first above anyone else. In doing so, you will be alone. Cause your new wife will always be last. Heck even your new chidlren with another woman would be second class citizens.
Its fine and dandy that your exgf and you are working together for the sake of your kids.
And its not so much insecurity. we all have that. But its not right for you to expect your new wife to just fit in just like that. Did you ever consider how your exgf will be after your new wife to be gets pregnant adn you must juggle a new child inthe equation? Do you honestly think she wont resent it? Now if she doesn't and she truly embrassed your new wife and the new kids from your union, GREAT.!
I'm not saying its impossible. I have only one friend who is now friends with exwife and her new husband, They're friends withthem and all the kids on eitehr side are one happy family , they all get together for occasions THis is extremely rare. THey all behave very well, openly and loving. No resentment. BUt it took 9 years! for this to happen. 9 years. You are expecting your fiancee to just jump in?
You say lack of schedual? you mean, all your time and events surround the family and you dont have time to yourselves? I think she is right to be worried about that. Liek i wrote before, your fiancee is problably thinking what will happen when i'm pregnant. I'm just an add on? My family's ideas will be washed into the first one?
Sorry. I think she has valid points. If you are so much involved in ex family, then i think youshould marry your ex. OR get a fiancee who truly honeslty doesn't mind being part of a large family unite with whomever is there.

Hi, Arturo.

You've had a lot of feedback already, so I'll try not to repeat what others have said, but merely add my thoughts to your post, and reactions to the responses.

You say, based on Just-a-mom's reply, that you can find someone to accept this situation. And that may be true -- you may be able to find a woman out there who would put up with what you have to offer. However, I think that even if she does exist, she is going to be awfully tough to locate.

I am not going to tell you whether staying with THIS woman is right for you. But I will say that whether she IS right for you depends entirely on whether you are willing to make some rather radical changes in your perspective and your behavior. My gut feeling is, if you do not see her perspective on this, then you would be doing the kindest thing for her to let her go -- because she does not deserve to have a husband who is not concerned about her feelings, just as you feel that you do not deserve someone who does not like your situation the way it is.

You and your fiancée have been together for awhile -- how long I don't know, but long enough to get engaged. She is trying to tell you that things need to change for her to feel comfortable as your wife. The thing is, Arturo, my gut feeling is that it's already too late for your relationship. Here is why.

You are very happy with the situation with your ex. Your children, it seems, are also very happy with it. So is your ex-family-in-law. Everyone is happy, in fact -- except the woman that you are asking to spend the rest of her life with you.

You are asking your fiancée to be your partner for life -- to build a life with you. But in fact, what you are offering her is not that at all. What you are offering her is not to build a new life together. You are asking her to come into your already-made life, and to accept that all the traditions, all the "family", have already been set up without her participation. You are essentially telling her that she is more than welcome to share your life, as long as she doesn't ask that it change in any way to reflect that she is a part of it now.

Arturo, when people divorce, they try to make the transition as easy as possible on the children. That's admirable, and that's as it should be. However, I think that sometimes, they tell themselves that trying to make sure that things change as little as possible is the best thing to do for the kids. But in fact, I think that's not true, especially if the divorcing people expect that some day, they may want to move on to new relationships, and get remarried. In your situation, what you have done is essentially fail to create the natural boundaries that divorced people must create in order to move on with their lives. You and your ex have no structure, no separation at all of the two houses, no differences in the way that your traditions and your family progress. So, effectively, you have instilled in your kids (and your ex-family-in-law) the sense that Mom and Dad's divorce means that nothing really will change.

Now, a new person comes onto the scene -- your girlfriend. You have done none of the work of creating healthy boundaries, so now everyone's expectations are that things will just continue as normal. Everything is working out great for you, for your ex, for your children, for your ex-family-in-law. Everyone, EXCEPT your fiancée.

Now, your fiancée is not comfortable with the fact that your kids can come and go as they please, whenever they want to, in her house. And that all holidays have to be spent with your ex and her family, and follow traditions that she had no part in creating, and that would go on regardless of whether she is there or not. Your fiancée is essentially invisible in this scenario. There is no custody schedule, so she has NO say in whether she ever gets to be alone in her own home. Who knows -- maybe your ex even has a key to your house, or drops by whenever she feels like it. Your fiancée essentially has no control in her own life. And you don't seem to understand why she has a problem with any of this.

Trouble is, even if you DID understand that that's not a fair thing to do to your fiancée, it's likely too late to make any changes without everyone else resenting them, and blaming hr for them. Which is not fair, frankly, because they are changes you should have made a long time ago. And frankly, they are changes that you would have to make if you were involved with about 99.9% of adult women. But it's probably too late -- because any changes that you make, your "Family" will obviously know that it's her needs that are provoking these changes. And they aren't probably going to say, "Oh, of course, this situation must be really hard for her." They're going to say, "Everything was fine until SHE came along -- what's the big deal??!!?" In other words, they aren't going to see this as a situation that almost any normal woman would have a problem with. They're going to see it as HER being the problem -- that she doesn't "fit in" with your group. And you know what? YOU are the one who has created this situation, in which she can't win for losing.

Now, because you failed to make these boundaries clearer from the start, any change you DO make will cause grumbling from your ex-family-in-law, because you all are the clique and she's the outsider. It might be possible for you to start making changes with less damage if you presented it as YOUR idea, e.g. "Fiancée and I are building a new life together, and so we need to start making some new traditions for ourselves. So we will be beginning new traditions at the holidays." However, if you are as close to your ex-family-in-law as you say you are, it's likely that you've already complained a little to them about how your fiancée isn't too into spending all her time with them. (By the way, if you HAVE done that complaining, even a little bit, that's a clear sign that your loyalties lie with your ex-family-in-law, NOT the woman that you claim to want to spend the rest of your life with.)

Finally, Arturo, you say that the situation you've created, this lack of boundaries and marriage-like commitment to your ex-family-in-law, is "all for the kids." But you know what, I don't really buy that. If you and your ex REALLY were doing this all for the kids, well, you'd still be married -- because you would have decided that it was important to stay together "for the kids" rather than break up and create this situation that, while very satisfying for you, will be sheer hell for anyone from the outside to come into. My advice, Arturo, is that if you can't see your fiancée's frustrations as legitimate and in need of real attention, you should do the honorable thing and let her go. And then you should make a commitment to yourself that you won't get involved with anyone else until you can actually give that person more than table scraps. Because that's what you have to offer right now -- nothing more.

Good luck, Arturo.

BB

You are not second best, you are not second class. Do not ever let anyone make you feel that way. - 2BLoved