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Back to court.

Worried_Worrier's picture

Not sure when exactly but soon as BM is getting legal advice.

I wonder if that is why the promises to the kids has stepped up and why they seem to be constantly told that BM is a hero ...... and of course their dad is an evil monster who took her kids away from her. Even though (at the time) BM's mother said the kids shouldn't be anywhere near here and she should go to jail for what she did.

It feels like the other side is emotionally manipulating and guilt tripping the kids as well as making their dad look like the bad guy.

The kids are 11 and 15 so they know some of what went on but they seem unwilling or unable to stand up to BM. Although SD told BM and nanna that she didn't want overnights with her mum but was willing to try unsupervised access.

It scares me as so much when on when they did "live" with her and they kept secrets for her so their dad didn't know how bad it was. And I really don't believe she has changed as a person. Still takes any chance to cause drama and upset.

She has said she is only going to ask the court for unsupervised so DP is unsure whether to get a solicitor or not ......... I really don't know. I mean what if she is lying and goes in and tells the court a load of rubbish. Everything she told them last time was a lie.

I feel like we should be doing something to fight back against the emotional manipulation but what?!

Comments

Acratopotes's picture

BM might be bluffing about going back to court.... keep to the current CO of only supervised visits,
kids can't decide other wise....

Once a court decided a parent is not fit, I doubt they will go on her word, I would get kids into therapy as well, to have a 3rd party who can honestly say these children are being brain washed by their mother, she's not good for them, keep visits supervised

Worried_Worrier's picture

Bm's mother is willing to pay for court so I am pretty sure it will happen. When it first went to court BM fully expected to be able to lie and keep the kids because she is the mother but luckily the judge saw through it and there were police reports etc.

This time though she has been through rehab counselling and taken mentor training so I worry that the judge will think she has changed. She may be clean but she is the same person she always was.

I just don't know about whether DP should get a solicitor - he had one last time.

When SD told them that she and SS didn't want overnights nanna said she wouldn't allow it anyway. BM has made these public changes that she has proof of (rehab sessions etc.) but her FB (she is friends with the kids) is still crude with lots of swearing. And she takes any opportunity to cause drama even if it hurts the kids.

Acratopotes's picture

start making screen shots of FB pages, and use that to proof she's still not a good mother, demand parenting classes, do what you can.

Worried_Worrier's picture

Would the court take them into account?

I just don't want DP to come across as being really petty as BM is going to paint herself as having changed herself and her life because the kids are her world.

Acratopotes's picture

they might...... and DH will not look petty, it will look more like he's a concerning father,

Courts already know BM has issues and can only see her children under supervision, now she's them crap about Daddy

Worried_Worrier's picture

A couple of her posts relate to DP but most are just crude stuff and lots of swearing.

sasha101's picture

We're in the UK and had a similar situation a few years ago. DH got custody of his 3 boys after court reports which documented bm's emotional abuse of the kids and showed her to be mentally unstable and unfit to be a full time parent, granting her regular weekend/school holiday contact. We weren't happy about so much unsupervised contact but as it was ordered by the court, we adhered to it to ensure she didn't have any excuse to haul us back to court in the future. That was 10 years ago and bm has never got over it, claiming to anyone who will listen that dh is a monster who stole her boys from her.

After them happily living with us for 6-7 years, she suddenly decided she was going back to court to get custody of the younger 2 ss's changed to her. She managed to get her legal fees paid as she wasn't working but we couldn't get legal aid and couldn't afford a solicitor and had to represent ourselves. We found out that the only time a change in custody would be granted is if she could prove that the kids were at risk from living with us. As the boys were healthy, happy and doing well in school and there had been no involvement with the police or other authorities she could not claim they were at risk so that was a non-starter. She then tried to claim the boys had told her they wanted to live with her, but we knew from the previous court case that she had tried to coach and manipulate them to say that and by their behaviour and the things they told their dad, it was obvious she was doing the same thing again. She also made all sorts of promises to the boys about how wonderful life would be when they went to live with her, which she had also been proven to have done in the past.

At the time, the oldest was 16 and she didn't try to seek custody of him as she knew perfectly well there was no way in hell he'd want to live with her so she was just trying to get the younger 2 back, who were about 9 and 10 at the time. Luckily for us, we had older ss as a witness who saw and heard first-hand the lies she was telling them and as he was 16 and agreed to us detailing his account of what he'd seen in our responses to her solicitor and forms we sent to the court, that was further evidence on top of the documented proof from the earlier court case. After a brief interview with someone from CAFCASS (the court-appointed child welfare officers in the UK), they reported that there was no reason to change custody because the boys were fine where they were and not at risk in any way, but that bm should continue to have regular contact. We also completed form to submit to court to report concerns for children at risk, detailing bm's previous proven emotional abuse, particularly of the oldest boy, and referred to the previous court documents containing evidence of this, so we came up with some pretty damning evidence to stop her ever trying to do anything like that again. She was advised by her solicitor to drop the case and had no choice but to withdraw - very satisfying for us, specially when we'd had to do all the work ourselves without a solicitor.

The ss's bm sounds very similar to yours - tells lies to the kids, has a poor me attitude, is very crude, likes to blame other people, can't accept the fact that the court decided the kids were better off with their dad and loves to seek attention and create drama. I would say document everything, keep a diary of everything, interactions between you/your dh and bm, keep all emails and messages, include things the kids tell you she's said or done when they've had contact, take screenshots of her social media as someone else suggested should you need proof of the kind of person she is.

If the kids have been living happily with their dad and you for a long time and are settled, doing well and not at risk, by UK rules there is no way they would be uprooted and sent back to BM, specially if there's proof she's been abusive towards them in the past. The fact that her own mother has such a low opinion of her parenting should carry some weight, and hopefully if it came to a court case would be happy to give her views as relative of and someone who has a relationship with the kids. In the UK, the court would also take into account the kids' views at their ages. During the first custody case, oldest ss was 9 and they did interview him, clearly stating in their report that he had no wish to live with his mother and was felt far happier with his dad, and I know when I left my abusive ex my daughter was 13 and stated she did not want contact with her dad which the court accepted because they deemed her of sufficient age and maturity to make that decision for herself.

There's probably no harm in consulting a solicitor if you can afford it, or it might be better to wait until you've actually received something in writing to inform you what she's going back to court for and then seek legal advice. If she's going for unsupervised contact after having supervised for a long time, the court will want to know what's changed. She can do all these things to try and convince a court she's a new person but judges aren't stupid and know the tricks people pull. That's where your evidence will come in, plus the views of the kids so document, document, document!

Good luck

Worried_Worrier's picture

We are in the UK too. Wow - glad the judges saw sense in your case. It often seems like the BM can get away with a lot because she is the mother.

The kids have been here full time almost a year now. At the court the judge said she shouldn't apply to change anything until she could prove she had been clean for 6 months and it is longer than that. She has done rehab meetings and has taken a mentoring course BUT she has not changed as a person but now has all this proof of what she has done.

Her mother will not speak against her. In fact, she has lied for her in previous court cases (not custody related) and has lied for BM even when it meant calling SD a liar.

My big fear is that the guilt gets to the kids and they don't speak up. Last time CAFCASS didn't speak to the kids but they were both worried what would happen if they told CAFCASS that they didn't want to live with their mum she would find out and be angry.

She cannot take the blame for anything. Her version of the past is very different from the facts. She outright lied to CAFCASS last time so she will do it again. It often seems like it is all about winning with her.

I wish it could have been ordered that the kids see her in a contact center - nanna supervising contact has meant that they both attack my partner and I to the kids.