How to get past it ...
Hey Everyone!
So, I'm new to this whole thing and talking to strangers about my issues kind of thing but just going to dive right in there. I have been with my fiancé for 5 years now, he had two children with his ex-wife, Girl age 8 and Boy age 10, almost 11. There have been many issues over the years but none that I'm sure most others would call "serious" as much of it comes from the birth mom and how conniving and deceitful, she is and how she continues to be fake to whomever she needs to impress at that time. She is definitely a person that wants to be considered the "super mom" and that can do no wrong, just to give you a little on her personality.
So my step-son has been trying to earn a dog for the past 2 years, doing chores, picking up after my dog that I brought into the family, and helping with foster animals that we bring in. This year he finally earned it and got a puppy. We wanted this to be his dog to grow up with, problem is we only have them 6 nights out of the month, unless it's convenient for the birth mom and then she'll call my fiancé to be the last minute or "glorified" babysitter is what I call it so she doesn't have to ruin her plans or pay for a sitter. We're never opposed to taking the kids, ever, as it allows more time with us and them. So, she has never liked dogs, has always been uncomfortable with my dog being around the kids ect. We told my step son he was allowed to take his dog over there if their mom would allow it and she would say no every time he would ask, especially with her not being fully potty trained in the beginning so she says. Well recently it seemed that she agreed to have the pup over and tells the kids how much she loves dogs ... but of course we can't tell the kids she's full of it. So this morning she texted my fiancé without me included on the text... which is another issue, asking if they can pick up his dog. We are all on a group text, my fiancé, the birth mom and myself as only talk when it pertains to the kids and their schedules etc. But whenever she wants something or wants to be "manipulative" only will text my fiancé without me on it. I assume it's happened on accident from time to time but really pisses me off, but my fiancé doesn't really understand why. I know that I am not their mother and would never try and replace her as I know she loves her kids, and I do understand there may be cases where she only wants to speak to their dad about things, but this happens more than he can see. I have tried to talk to him about this, and he thinks that I "overthink" things, which at times is definitely true, and honestly wish I could just shrug it off and say "whatever" but is at a tipping point for me that it is really getting to me and just simply get angry anytime I hear from her or hear that my fiancé has heard from her. I know my fiance just doesn't want any drama and doesn't want to piss her off where she no longer "allows" us to have extra time with them, so she always has the power.
Has anyone else felt things like this? Am I truly over-reacting? How do I past all this animosity I have towards someone that I cannot stand, but have to stay quiet about for the kids’ sake? I feel like I'm stuck in this beautiful family, but as the 3rd wheel ... I don't have kids of my own so I'm not really a mom, so feel like there are so many more boundaries for me that no one else understands, as I dont' have any other friends that have only step kids.
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Comments
Honestly, I think I've said 5
Honestly, I think I've said 5 words to BM in 9 years, and all of them were "Hello". Why do you feel the need to be in on all of their communication? That doesn't seem appropriate or necessary.
I do think a lot of this is your own stuff, even if BM is difficult. I wouldn't agree to have a puppy at my house either if I wasn't consulted about the kid getting one (and I love dogs - have 2- but puppies are a lot of work).
Reseponse
Hello! I by no means feel that I "NEED" to be on all of their communication as I know that she absoltely has the right to speak with only the father, but includes me on everything else unless she's trying to be manipulative towards my fiance as he just doesn't want to cause waves and neither of us have, and I would never say anything as it's not my place. It's just becoming more and more frequent when she wants something and she knows we're not together as he does let me in on everything and he ultimately makes the final say. Hope that makes sense.
In reference to the puppy at her house, I run an animal rescue so there are animals here all the time and she was aware that he was earning a dog over the past couple years.
Understand
Yup, BM used to include me in emails and texts back when I was still an obliging doormat and she needed a favor. Ever since I put my foot down about me and DH being used, it's suddenly all secret conversations and texts to manipulate him. I've also been on the receiving end of the COD playbook games. "My kids don't like you. You intimidate them." "Why are you so spiteful and jealous?" "You don't get the right to micromanage my relationship with MY daughter." Ugh.
Reseponse
That's how it has been. I don't "push" over as easily as she likes and knows when she's full of it. Just an example, fiance and I had tickets to something after my step sons basketball game, and she was aware as we told him about it and would have to leave 15 min early. Well she made other plans simply assuming that we would do whatever she asks and knew my fiance wouldn't want to say no to the kids for coming over for a few hours, but I told them we couldn't as we made these plans, made the kids aware and was not our night to have them, but she never seems to be able to schedule things on the nights we have them. She was the one who didn't want him to have them more than this, but when it's convenient plays it off like "I thought you'd like more time with them" like she's the nice guy. I'm just trying to figure out a better way to deal with this and not feel so much hatred or frustration as I never want the kids to suspect anything.
Nah
Youll come to the realization one day that the skids are in on the con, too. That's why, after years of doing everything I could to help them, they have suddenly been intimidated by me all this time. They weren't intimidated when I was packing their lunches, providing them with rides and spending cash and making sure they had clean clothes and dinners on the table every other week. But when SS showed his hand in a moment of passion, to me they became appendages to BM and just about as palatable as having her in my home.
Reseponse
How did you "deal" with it I guess? There have been many moments like this where they have called me mom, and I have spoken to her privately that I whole heartidly know that this hurts her feelings and have and will never ask them to call me mom. I've made it clear to them and I know they know, I am not their mom and will never be. And of course she seemed appreciative and thought it was kind of me, but does everything against what she actually says like talking trash to the other parents about me, especially when I get close to one of the other parents, or how she'll make it clear I have never and never will be a "true" mother. And she's right, I don't have my own children, and don't see it in the cards for us at the moment, but just stuck in this position where I'm tired of being the "bigger" person but afraid if I make it known I know what she's pulling that it'll affect the kids.
Dog was a bad idea
If one parent has kid 6 nights a month, really bad idea to allow him a dog. I would be pissed and felt manipulated over this if someone pulled this on me.
She has every right to text her ex.
Response
I agree she has every right to text her ex, sorry if that wasn't coming across correctly. It is just becoming more and more when she knows we're not together so she can manipulate the situation since my fiance is basically scared of her and not allowing him to see the kids as much.
She was aware of him earning a dog for the past couple years.
BM never has to talk to you,
BM never has to talk to you, text you and/or copy to you what she texts Dad. She simply doesn't.
That she sometimes/usually does so should be considered totally optional on her part. The children , the schedule and the children "business' is all communication that BM and Dad have to do.... whatever app/group text you and BF came up with to use i strictly something she has agreed to occasionally use to pacify you/Dad. Yes, parents can be ordered per court to use programs for communication (such as Our Family Wizard, or mandated email only blah blah), but no court will include a mandate in order that BM must include Dad's GF (or even DF or wife) in any and all communication.
Meh, maybe in your eyes that makes BM manipulative and/or controlling, but in reality it is just the way it is. The children have two parents, and you aren't one of them. A court order is between the two parents, and you aren't one of them. That's not saying anything against you, or implying you don't play an important role in your household when it comes to the kids.... it just merely means BM can treat you as if you don't exist.
Yeah, that sounds cold and even perhaps 'rude' on BM's part, but it is what it is. She must attempt to co-parent with the children's father. If it were not for you living with the father, the children would not even be a part of your life at all. However, there is nothing that says BF can not share any texts BM sends him with you. And he obviously did share her text as you do know it came and what it said.
You're going to have to keep agreements between BF and you between BF and you and forget about getting upset if and when BM decides to exclude you in her communications. Nothing stopping Dad from simply forwarding whatever she sends , it just won't keep directly from BM to you.
If you try to fight with BM over this, you will set off the bear. Yeah, you could turn what is now merely annoying into a all out f-u between BM and you. Why would you want to do that. She is not your problem to have to deal with, never has been and never will be.
Did BM know her son was "earning" a dog and said dog was meant to go between homes prior to the SS receiving it as he rewarded earned goal? Did she have any say in what type/size it would be and/or any say in chosen the dog? Because for me , I would want to have input into any dog/breed/et that might be coming to join my home 24days a month. Who is to pay for the pet food and supplies and/or any vet bills at BM's house in this dog he 'earned' ?
Reseponse
Yes, she was aware a couple years ago when we moved into a new house that he was going to start doing the responsibilities of earning his pup. Sorry this wasn't clear, the dog stays permanently with us and never asked her to take any part of it, it was my step son who requested he take his pup to her house and we told him that he would need to ask his mom.
the pup
Anyone with an IQ above room temperature could see the kid wanting to take the dog to moms. And for a NCP to TELL the CP, which is what you said in an earlier post that the kid was getting a dog, that would use up every ounce of good will in my body. This was a bone head play.
Reseponse
Thank you for your input. I wasn't meaning to offend anyone, or being looked for being called names or critized but for opinions from an outside source.
I don't think allowing a kid to have a dog that he wished for and earned is a bone head play and don't believe just because his mom doesn't want one, that he shouldn't be allowed one at either one, especially one that already has a dog. But again thank you for your input, but we'll agree to disagree as I believe my IQ to be a little above room temp.
The Problem is your DH is the NCP
Mom has the kid most of the time. Of course, he would ask to take the dog home to moms. Your DH basically forced her to accept the dog. She will be saying to herself i I don't let the dog come over, the kid will stay at dad's. What is the next step, get the kid a pony? I think that is mean, and at some point if her needs her cooperation, she may remember this.
Reseponse
I completely understand this, and we made it clear long ago that their mom is not a big dog fan. Reason we have always put my dog downstairs or away when she comes by to pick them up or when we take them home why we can't bring her (my dog). She was always honest about not liking them and that's totally fine, but this is where I struggle I guess. If the mom doesn't like something, are we then just not allowed to provide this because they are with her more often? I know this comes across as argumentative but I truly am just looking to see why what we did was wrong. Their mom is more than welcome to say no to the dog coming over, she's been saying that for the past few months when asked, even the past 5 years when they've asked to take my dog to their house, but why can't they experience that here if she doesn't like it there, and vice versa. She gave her daughter a hampster for her bday, I am not a fan of having one over and we tell her all the time she can't bring him. Hope this makes sense!
I'm with you on this. If it
I'm with you on this. If it was clear from the beginning he was going to only be able to see the dog when hes there on weekends I dont see why you shouldnt have got him one.
Expecting mom to include you
Expecting mom to include you when she speaks to dad is ridiculous. You are not the children's parent. She has no obligation whatsoever to ever speak to you or include you in discussions/decisions regarding her children.
Your fiance can forward texts to you and discuss things with you if he wishes to do so.
Was mom consulted prior to the kid getting the dog? Did dad talk to mom about having the dog at her house prior to telling the kid that that was a possibility?
Reseponse
I don't expect her to communicate with me, but more venting the frustration about how she will only do it when others are around or to update us on the schedule, but when it comes to her wanting something to go her way she'll only include their father but when she thinks I'll agree she'll come to us both. I would rather have it one way or the other and I'm the bad person if I ask for more communication but then the bad guy if I tell her to stop all together. When the kids get here from school, any notes or projects in their bags I take a picture of and send to her, but if I continue to do that then she'll think I do want "on her time" communication.
The mom was told the step son was earning the dog over about 2 years. I run an animal rescue so it wasn't a big suprise to their mom and the dog is with us here full time, we take care of any expenses and honestly never thought it'd come up to take the dog over to her house as she has been quite clear until the last month how much she disliked them and mine.
If the kids are only with dad
If the kids are only with dad 6 days a month, why are you taking school info out of their bags and sending my a photos? Why not make copies/photos for dad so that he us aware of what is going on? Mom is the CP. She doesn't need your help to keep her in the loop about school activities/events. It seems so strange that you are doing this.
Being aware that the kid is working towards earning a pet at dad's house, doesn't mean that she should expect that pet to end up in her home.
Reseponse
They are with us during some school days overnight, so when they are here those days, after school the first thing we try and do is their homework and review and notes/comments and activities by the teacher. Because my fiancé wishes to keep some of the drawings that they do for keepsake we do keep these for him, and take a photocopy on the scanner to put back in their bag if she wanted to keep it as she said she doesn't want to give up any of their activity stuff as she's keeping a book (cause she doesn't understand that their dad would like to do the same thing).
I like to send her a copy of the teacher notes, for example my step daughter has a ty-dye day next week, and because she doesn't have the kids and don't know if she's free, or busy, we just want to send this to her in case she is free to grab this for her instead of being busy with the kids. We are just trying to be courteous. If they are with us the day they go to school in special things or items, we make sure and have this ready for them and tell her if we’ll go get it since they’re with us anyway just to make things easier.
As for the pup, she is not expected to take the pup to her house what-so-ever. She was aware of him earning the dog, and I run an animal rescue so there are animals in and out quite often anyway the past 5 years. We don't expect her to take the pup ever, or provide anything for the dog as it was a decision at our house, but think some of it was her thinking we'd never actually allow it or that my step son would be able to do everything we asked for him to earn his dog.
While your intentions are to
While your intentions are to be courteous/helpful, I can see how they can be viewed as passive aggressive attempts to out mom mom.
Let's be honest. How many men actually put forth any effort in collecting/holding on to their children's childhood memories?
Reseponse
He has been doing this since they were together, definately not to the extent that she does, reason he doesnt mind that shee keeps most of it, but asked the first couple years after they split to have just a few things a year, for example a drawing of something they were interested in that year, or an assignment that he got to help with, but she refused and he started sending pictures and copies when they're with him. I was asked to do this when he's not here right away when they get here, or if we're tag teaming duties so do you recommend they come from him everytime? Might make it easier for her to see that it's coming from him and not from me, as I didn't think about it, but can come across this way and is definately not my intention.
I think it's great that Dad
I think it's great that Dad goes over the items being sent home with the kids. But you could let Dad start to be the one who sends the copies to BM sometime in the evening. It is nice that both parents share the notes and school work/projects. They can continue to do so, just have him send it so you can free yourself of the task.
You can still go through the bag help with the homework blah blah (I'm sure the kids enjoy knowing your interest and wanting to share their day with them). It's just the actual communication. Let Dad do it. And if BM also does this sending copies to Dad, you can review the items , you'll just have to wait a bit until he either forward to you or gets home with it.
And ye, oh course BM wants to exclude you when she thinks she can get her way and/or pull one over on Dad. But it is perfectly ok for BF to say ' hey, BM, I am going to need to get back to you on this' and discuss it with you before sending back a response. Dad is not on stand-by 24hr call with BM and BM has no reason to expect immediate answers. Sure, when it comes to things that will personally affect you (your schedule, your household budget, making/breaking plans et et) are all things that you should have input on... but that input is between BF and you. BM can just plain wait until Dad has discussed with you and he gets back to her. Except for true emergencies BM will just have to get use to a short delay.
In fact, if Dad is working when BM texts , she has no business bothering him and expecting an immediate reply at all. Unless the kiddo is being raced to the ER with bleeding and/or breathing problems (true emergency) BM has nothing to say that can't wait. If BM decides to punish Dad because of it and be silly and stop offering Dad the kids when she needs a sitter, I suppose she will do that. But Dad can't go through life being afraid of not jumping when BM yells jump. My bet is she will still want dad to take the kids if she has been use to doing so. she won't like either having to cancel her plans and/or pay a babysitter.
Reseponse
Thank you for this! It kind of helped to have it spelled out and this should be between myself and my fiance. I don't blame him or think he's hiding anything as he shows it to me whenever she does text, its just the knowing that she's playing games I think that's getting to me.
Thanks so much for your input! <3
I'm going to weigh in on your
I'm going to weigh in on your side of some of this - I totally get wanting to be in on the kid conversations and I relate heavily to your annoyance about BM texting privately sometimes. It's hard to feel like the 5th wheel in a family that prexisted you and sometimes doesn't include you. Especially if plans and financial decisions that affect you are being made without your input. I personally don't think there's anything wrong with not wanting your DH and the BM in a constant text thread.
I don't have bio kids either and I TOTALLY get your feelings about boundaries - it's something I'm working on as well.
However re the dog, I think if BM doesn't like dogs, your dog isn't going to have a good time over at her house anyway. When my skids BM got a new dog the first thing I said was - not in this house. Ever. Because I pick up her slack in a lot of ways, and I'm not her babysitter / dogsitter. I'd suggest keeping your household pets separate. Also, if she's a dink, who wants your precious dog at her stupid hosue anyway!
DH can text privately with BM
DH can text privately with BM and not make plans that affect you - he can always check with you before he confirms any plans. If I were BM, I'd be highly annoyed that the SM has to be part of every conversation - I didn't make kids with her, didn't divorce her, why does she have to be in every discussion?
It seems very insecure to me. It's your DH's job to tell her that he has to check with you before he makes any plans, financial commitments or visitation-wise.
Reseponse
I do agree with you that some of this is just my pure insecurity no doubt about it. I think the frustrating part is she still has all this power over how much the dad gets to see them. He agreed to 6 days a week only because she made it clear to him during the divorce that she wouldn't keep his kids from him. He's not a deadbeat dad, or unemployed, or one that doesn't make his child support, but he's just scared she'll stop letting come more than his scheduled 6 overnights a month.
I do think there are times where she will only want to discuss things with the father only, I've always known this but having a hrad time when it seems she only does this when she wants to manipulate a situation or "keep me in the dark" when she knows he tells me everything anyway, but he agrees just to keep things calm and doesn't always have a backbone.
Are there plans made without you knowing??
You know the the monthly schedule of when SK will be over. Do you get a supprise of exter time you don’t know about. Are you the last to know about an event the SK must attend on DH time. ? DH should have limited contact with BM, like a set up time and place the day before pick up. And how they are getting back to BM. And school events appointment ect. Actuall today they can share a online calendar for that. Where both of you can make additions to calendar.
Now if they are spend hours every other day talking, texting that is way too much
Response
Yes we have a joined calendar with all the kids activities and school info etc. However, there are issues with this as it has been wrong too many times to count and she will blame my fiance for not being on the coaches or school emails. We are on as many as we or he can be just so we don't miss anything but because she wants to sign them up for everything, which is fine, she doesn't include finance's email to get alerts either. We would LOVE a set time and day for pick-up and drop-off but just doesn't work for her as things always seem to "come up". Of course we're always happy to have them if needed as well but as far as any other personal plans we have no idea what they're doing and she doesn't with our house and that has only bothered her.
Honestly - the best piece of
Honestly - the best piece of advice I can give you is - stay out of it. I wish I had stayed out of it more in the beginning, but I felt like I was "helping" DH, when really, it was not my problem and I had no control over it or any right to put myself in the middle of it, even if DH seemed to want me there.
This is between BM and DH and all you can do is be kind to his kids and set boundaries with DH on what you will and won't do. My DH was the opposite of yours in that he took a strong stand with BM, which people here think they want their DH to do, but really, in many ways it just pushed her buttons and resulted eventually in my SS being totally alienated from both of us. I would have handled it differently, but I can't tell him what to do or make him do things my way. In the end SS being alienated meant I no longer had all of the stress in my life anyway, so I guess it kind of worked out?
I know it's hard to stay out - but it really is the wisest course.
Also, I appreciate that you could hear all of this feedback without getting defensive.
Reseponse
Thank you! I assume this is the route I'll try and take going forward and make it clear to their dad it's not cause I don't want to be involved, but will lessen my stress and hopefully make things easier. I know that some of it comes from my insecurities and jealousy to an extent so I think I'm just coming to a point where things that I do need to change.
I really appreciate your input! <3
For the record
For the record
I don't know why people came down so hard on you. You seem like a nice person trying hard to make a nice family.
Reseponse
Thank you, I really appreciate this. I know that the others who had negative things to say disagreed with my approach or have been through instances that seem the same so have a different reaction, but truly believe that it's all worth hearing, whether it's something I want to hear or not. I am no saint and far from perfect, but truly love their children and will do what I can to help and protect them. I just don't want my emotions and thoughts to affect them in any negative way and trying to see from other viewpoints what I can do differently.
Thank you<3
Agree and yet not
From the very first, I was resentful that the bio parents would make all sorts of plans without including me, when it affected me. I keep track of schedules and also like to schedule things for us to do socially, so I totally get that you want to be included in scheduling convos. I especially was upset when things were texted that did not include children - to the extent of inappropriateness.
DH now shows me texts from Toxic Troll. From his phone.
I hate Toxic Troll more than anyone I have ever hated. And I dont really hate anyone. How do I deal with it? I try hard to keep things under wraps from Munchkin SD12. She loves her mother and she loves me and me showing my hatred would create conflict in her, even though she has seen how much her mother hates me and how badly BOTH her mother and sister (the Toxic Twins) have treated me over the years. It would still create conflict.
I just imagine her getting her face pushed into muck, and getting punched by someone, perhaps a new boyfriend.
Unfortunately it makes me feel a little better.
I used to get a big knot in my stomach whenever Toxic Troll would text DH. And then he would pick up on it and get upset, sometimes. She still tries to stay relevant and texts him pictures of herself (one time she had pink eye and texted a photo of her oozing eyeball, just super gross). It doesnt bother me near as much as it used to. We are married now, and every day it is a process. Toxic Troll is also fake - its part of her disorder called Narcissistic Personality Disorder - and part of their modality is the initial charm - then rage when they dont get their way, then victim hood as part of their "image management".
It doesnt really get better.
Resepone
I am so sorry to hear this that you've had to go through
... I don't believe it is that bad with the kids mom, my fiance and myself. I by no mean think things have totally gone to crap, but these "small" things continue to build and by no means wish harm on her as it would affect the kids, but have wished that karma would show itself more often.
His ex as done the same with pictures that have no relation to the kids, and he just never responds as he says she's trying to rebuild the bridge where he's basically her slave again, but now it's going into the things she does with the kids knowing that she has the upper hand whether he gets to see them more or not. We plan to go to a lawyer to hopefully gain straight 50/50 custody as my step son has asked to live with us numerous times, but the mom just doesn't want to even think of this possibility. We just truly don't want to put the kids through a "fight" as we know that's what will probably end up happening. She gets a lot of child support, and I know many hear this a lot but during the divorce the kids expenses were listed out, and she asked him to cover 85% of them, which is frankly double her mortgage. He was fine with it as it was told and assumed he'd still be able to see them when they wanted to be with him, but losing even a portion of that I believe is a driving factor which is a whole other issue in itself.
Second that
I had similar feelings in the beginning. I think it stems from being an organizer and family activity planner it's hard when you run your household to not be a part of the planning process. The intermittent communication by group text ends up feeling demeaning and dismissive. You don't need that.
What worked tor me is blocking bm entirely-from everything. No more desire to be one big happy family. No more guilt. No more jealousy or envy. No more bm in my life. It has neutralized all the negative emotions. That and a solid child placement schedule.
Men dont do this until they have a partner. It's not worth it to them. They go along to get along. Be warned that having your dh set boundaries will create conflict and game playing with bm. People in power do not happily give up their power. Focus on your household and what you can control and let go of anything beyond your doorstep.
And, lastly, I'm so sorry for all the self-ritious and uncaring responses you received. This site is meant to support each other.
Reseponse
Thank you! I think this may be a good option for me to remove the conversation all together, obviously unless we're with the kids or at their events, and don't want to block her from my phone just in case my fiance is not here and she needs to get ahold of me about the kids for any reason, but think that may be a good start to just eliminate any communication that I don't HAVE to be a part of and let my fiance fill me in as needed.
And thank you, some of the comments have not been supportive, but still appreciate everyone's input as some may help me understand how she is taking our actions, which in turn may help resolve it so fingers crossed on that!
You are very welcome!
Let go of that feeling that you need to have your phone unblocked in case she needs to get ahold of you. She never NEEDS to get ahold of you. She has made it clear that she chooses to focus her co-parenting solely on your fiancé and only dains to include you when it serves her. Don't fall for this. This is a power play and she will step all over you. Let all step Parenting be only between you and your fiancé. He is the one you answer to NOT her. She can call him if she needs anything. Respect has to go both ways.
Reseponse
Never thought of it this way, so thank you so much for giving me your input! <3
One step
I'm only one step ahead of you and went through everything you are going through now. I learned the hard way and feel so much better now. This site has been really helpful for me to read others' stories and occasionally vent. It helps to know your feelings are so normal for the situation. Being in love with a man who has another woman in his life is hard to understand unless you are in it.
I’ll be totally honest, I
I’ll be totally honest, I think you need to back off on the text thing. It’s a little odd that she would group text you (unless everyone was amicable & you have your own relationship with her). I don’t even have Bm’s number, nor does she have mine, and I’m ok with that.
I do get annoyed when she texts him things he doesn’t tell me about, or ‘forgets’ to mention, but I hold my DH accountable for that, not BM. Personally, if I was the BM & the SM demanded to be included in conversations about my kids, I’d be annoyed by it & likely would keep texting the BD, unless I really got along with SM.
You need to trust your partner has your best interest in mind, and if he doesn’t, that’s a separate issue.