HELP! We need advice...BM wants to take SD overseas for Christmas

Ok I will try to give you the background info. in as least amount of space possible! We really need your advice!! My DH and BM have joint custody of SD3. My DH however has primary physical care. Here's the deal... We are supposed to have (court ordered) SD Christmas Eve and take her back to her mom's on Christmas Day at 10:00, last year it was the opposite. Well, we just got a request from BM asking if she could have SD from Dec. 21-Dec. 31 so she could take her to England.

This is why they are going to England....BM is engaged to a guy over there, and he was back for 3 months but then he had to go back to England because his visitors visa was up. So, he will spend the holidays over there for a month and then return to the states and they will get married in February. So, with this being his "last" Christmas over there she wants to go over as well and take SD with her. (We do like BM's fiance, so that is not an issue). She is willing to let us have "make-up time" when they return because SD would miss out on 4 days of being with her dad during this time period. I really don't feel that is the point though. DH has another child with a different BM. He has joint custody of her as well. The girls are only 6 months apart and are very close. I feel that not spending Christmas together would affect them.

Also, she will miss out on all Christmas's with DH's family and my family. On my side of the family Christmas is a HUGE deal. My parents got the girls real-life ponies for Christmas and they are supposed to get them on Christmas morning. I know I'm probably being selfish, but if it was any other holiday it wouldn't be as big of a deal. Not only will they be gone on Christmas day, but 4 days before and 5 days after. When would we get to do our Christmas with just DH, me and two SD's?

Another concern is that she is taking her out of the country. What if something would happen? They will be flying over there by themselves and SD has never flown before. Also, I don't think this would happen, but what if BM didn't bring SD back and they stayed over there? We would have a huge custody battle. I hate to play the what-if game because only God can control what happens, but we hate to set ourselves up for a dangerous situation. We want to get along with BM and make decisions that will benefit SD, but this seems a little scary and we don't know what to do. If any of you have any advice or might know what could happen legally if she tried to run with her, PLEASE let us know. We're scared and don't know what to do. Thank you SO much and have a great Thanksgiving!!!

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i have been on the other side of this

my DH was going to get a leave and we wanted to visit his brother in Italy with the girls. the way the Judge put it to her (she didnt want SD to go) was that this would be a wonderful opportunity for her that she would never forget. BM brought up being worried about international travel and such. The Judge told her that she had just as much chance of something happening here as she did over there. The only difference is that it wasnt over a holiday. Try and compromise with her if you can. See if she cant leave the day after Xmas.

I am totally trying to be positive for you. I understand your point of view, believe me. Just try and think about how great it would be for her to get to travel and experience that! Good luck!

Your guts says don't let her

Your guts says don't let her go - I wouldn't
You aren't court ordered too. If she wants to go to England let her make up her time with SD - why should you be forced to change your family's schedule and your other SD's schedule.
If his visa is up, whose to say he will get one to be her permanently and she doesn't fly to England and never come back. If you are considering it you need to verify family information of his before they go and check into extradition and custody disputes. If she becomes a legal resident upon arrrival in England, I think you would be screwed. It's too far away for me to feel comfortable with it.

I agree

I've found that my gut instinct is usually a good one to follow. The few times I've talked myself out of (or been talked out of...) following my gut, we've been taken for a nasty ride, or worse.
Being that it's your year w/her, I say stick to the plan. I personally wouldnt' feel comfortable w/it, and it sounds like you're not excited about it either.
I wish you luck and happy holidays.

I certainly have mixed feelings about this one

and I'm all for comprimise...but...bm is asking a lot here, and she is doing it for a person who isn't the parent of sd. Think of what is in the best interest of the children, not what others have in mind for them.

I think traveling would be a wonderful opportunity for sd, however, Christmas is huge, and missing out with one of her parents and her sibling on such a special holiday should outweigh the travel experience.

I would put aside your feelings of what your parents have purchased for sd's...although I think it's absolutely wonderful, but there are so many people tugging on step kids that they feel the pressure and it isn't fair. I know you are trying your hardest to not be selfish, and I know your parents would so be disappointed for them to not see those ponies on Christmas a.m....but the pressure is too much for the kids.

If I were in your situation, considering that bm wants to travel on a special day for her new sig other, I would say no, and have sd spend Christmas here in the States. Why should a father and a sister have to miss out with sd on Christmas b/c bm's fiance's visa is expired? That is not their problem whatsoever. If it were another holiday then I would let her go, but you do not have to, and why bm is asking I just don't necessarily agree with. I bet if you guys say no, she won't go until after Christmas. I could never ask a child to not spend Christmas overseas and miss out with one of their parents....I kind of think that is selfish myself.

Good luck to your situation,
Candice

Your guts says don't let her

But....

A three year old will not remember going to England. If you're really concerned she is up to something then I would gently suggest BM enjoy her "honeymoon" while you take care of SD here. I mean who wants to go to an amazing place to cart around a grumpy travel weary 3 year old?

My kids are older but last year their SM really tried to sway me to give up Christmas Eve (I have them every year b/c that's when my family gets together- then we split Christmas day- meaning if it's "exH's year I take them or he picks them up after my family gathering to spend the night there.) Their SM was upset by this arrangement b/c my sons miss seeing her family on Christmas Eve. She even tried to say, "I've given up on trying to see my kids every holiday, I know it's hard, but it isn't fair they never get to spend it with my family...etc" But I remained firm. And in all fairness her kids' fathers (two previous marriages) don't take the kids often. One travels abroad all the time and the other one is a deadbeat in and out of jail. So she really doesn't ever have to give up the meaningful holidays.

When it comes down to it as Step parents we have to acknowledge how we would feel not to see our biokids on a holiday. I really think often times it means more to moms. How does DH feel? I think I would leave this up to him. My DH doesn't get upset when SD has holiday/b-day time with her mom instead of here. If you get along with BM now and like her fiance, then I would try to let this one go.

Peace, love, and red wine

Honestly DH doesn't really

Honestly DH doesn't really want her to go. He worked too hard and spent too much money to get primary physical care of his daughter, and then to think if she tried to pull something. When we talked about it briefly he said "what do you think?" My response wanted to be well you make the decision because she is your daughter. At the same time however if something happened I wouldn't want to feel that I didn't put my two cents in. I have been dating DH since SD was three months old. As far as I'm concerned she is one of my own. I wouldn't trade anything in the world to not have my SD's. This is why this situation hurts so much. I try to put myself in BM's shoes, but is it really in the best interest of SD to take her away from her dad and sister for 10 days over Christmas? Why can't it just be 5? Or go visit some other time? (I would still be scared to death). Is Christmas celebrated in England like it is in the states?

Sorry, I'm rambling. I'm home all day and now I have to think about this! Anyway, thanks for the advice so far it does help. If anyone has any other advice it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!

If she fought against you to have physical custody....

Then I think your fears are founded. I would tell her you're uncomfortable allowing your three year old to fly to a foreign country for 10 days. I mean, what if they haven't been upfront about fiance's ability to come back after that?

Peace, love, and red wine

DH has to consent

For his daughter to get a passport he has to sign, along with BM, and then get it notorized. If he doesn't want her to go he doesn't have to sign.

Awesome

I forgot about that! I was considering getting a passport for my kids b/c soon we'll need it if we want to go to Canada. I looked into it and I would have had to arrange for a notary or have exH go with me to apply. Excellent advice!

Peace, love, and red wine

Add the jet lag, stress of a

Add the jet lag, stress of a new place and new people to a three year old and throw in all the stress and overexcitement of Christmas, too much on her. I would still say no. Do whats best for her.

Could it be that she wants

Could it be that she wants her fiances family to meet sd? I'm assuming his family is over there also. I dont know your bm but do you have reason to assume she would "kidnap" your sd? Or are you just concerned because he will be so far away from you and dh and a parents instinct is to keep your children safe?

My husband had wanted his girls to meet my family before I moved to the states but the bm kept blocking it. Beleive me he had no intention of Kidnapping the girls.

I know when my daughter goes to visit her dad back home - I worry about the flight, whether he will take care of her as well as I feel I do, etc. I always get phone numbers, addresses, etc and also get her dad to call me when she arrives and when shes on the plane returning home. And I respond in courtesy. I know your sd is much much younger but in the future you may want to travel with your sd and will need permission also.

As far as christmas, she will get another christmas with you when she comes back home. We often have to schedule our own christmas because of visitation, work schedules etc. It aint perfect but such is life in stepfamilies. The kids dont mind as we promote this with a positive spin with several christmases which are more opportunities to see family and to open presents!!! Yea!

I guess Im just saying that you know your bm.... what do you think? Seems to me this is just a one time deal.

“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results”. Albert Einstein

You are right...

Jaded you are exactly right. If we ever wanted to travel we would run into the same problems and I would hope BM would be supportive of us. My concern here is that DH was granted primary physical care about a year ago. SInce then every once in awhile she will bring up that it is just a "title" and it means nothing. Well, now that she has met this guy in another country it actually is more than a title. About a month ago she asked my DH to consider dropping this "title". DH told BM he could consider, but really had no intentions of doing so. If the "title" was dropped she could easily run to another country get married, become a citizen and we are screwed.

We just want to side on the err of caution. We are going to talk to our lawyers, but as far as I'm concerned once she leaves the states, no laws apply. If they do and she doesn't come back, could we get in trouble for breaking the custody agreement?

I would feel a little better about the whole situation if:
1) it wasn't for 10 days
2) SD is older- she is only three she won't remember this after a few months
3) BM and fiance were already married and he was a citizen of the US.

Thanks for the advice everyone!

Oh- and I just remembered

Passports take 6 weeks at least- probably more this time of year. So I think you're covered this year. There's no way they're going to get one in time so the whole discussion is moot!

Peace, love, and red wine

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HELP! We need advice...BM wants to take SD overseas for Christmas

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