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We have a Smoking Gun!!

Shell8078's picture

So if you have read my postings BM is dragging DH back to court so she can reduce her child support. Her new claim to wanting to reduce it is because she was unemployed, well that's not the case anymore. In addition she is claiming that she has incurred cost for an airline ticket that SHE PAID for which she claims is about $700 that was non refundable and that she claims is out now (cry me a river). So DH and I were getting his ducks in a row and preping him for court and running different scenario we should offer her. After using the court calculator (what the state uses and courts uses) and based on all the info shows a pretty penny that she will have to pay not even including the 5k that she is in arrears for.So we decided not to even give her a chance to negotiate (we already offered with no response), we will take what ever the courts ultimate decision is.

But one thing still remained, what would the court do about her claim of the Money that she is claiming she lost for the air line ticket that SS10 refused to use when he refused to go see her. So we call that airline to find out what happened to the ticket and the cost because BM has a tenancy of embellishing. So they said that ticket was not lost and it is still open and he can use it up until next year. So I thought cool he can still see her as long as he wants to go and she help reestablish their relationship. So asking questions on cost…….. HERE COMES THE GOOD PART!

The ticket cost BM a hole $5, apparently she use rewards points, so we wonder how she had that much in rewards point since she tanked her credit and on her financial has no credit cards listed. Well we found out that some guy used his points to get the ticket. They gave us the guys name so we googled him and come to find out that the person who purchased the ticket was the Head of the company that she was fired from just weeks after this ticket was purchased. So not only has she purgered her self with the claim of incurring the cost of the ticket and it being lost. But I think she may have used this guys rewards points fraudulently. If your that close with the head of the company you work for why would you be let go three weeks later?????

I am going to court tomorrow with DH as support and as a witness. So this should be fun to watch once DH calls her bluff and presents the information to the court!! and shows the court what a liar she is.

She has not Idea that we know!!! }:)


purpledaisies's picture

I was thinking the very same thing Happy, she HAS to let us know what happens. WOW is all I can say right now.

overit2's picture

Ok...she could have used his point via fraud..which is why she isn't employed. She would have had to have his online pin number in order to book a ticket for herself that way though. So unless she was his admin and had access to all this information it's actually quite difficult to do. In most airlines the redemption cost is much higher then that. Just taxes/airport landing fees plus redemption fees. If she needs to make a change to it now or re-deposit miles it's about $100-$150 for that. Just fyi.
But I have a question-I'm seriously very alarmed if indeed he airline DID give you this information.

Unless the person was an idiot-- we have very strict confidentiality terms. Or was it a friend in the airline that helped you out? I work for an airline and I know what the big no-no's are...this is outrageous to me.

YOu can't take that to court if that's the case. Also-not sure if it's admissable in court to begin with if the info was obtained under false pretenses or given to you in error.

How did you find out the ticket was open? You would have to have a ticket number for them to track? Not sure when the ticket was purchased-but most all tickest have a 1yr policy of open to be reused towards future travel.

For them to find a past dated record, to look at the ticket number, give you the info as to what type of ticket it was and THEN from what FF it came??? Seems very very unlikely. not meaning to sound unbelieving...but yeah, I'm skeptic. This is extremely unprofessional, if not illegal for them to divulge this kind of information to you.

Shell8078's picture

DH is the custodial parent and was listed as the person the child would be coming from, we also had the ticket number because BM had to send us the information. As a parent DH is privy to all the info he needs regarding his child. So there is no false pretences. The airline did not give out any rewards account info or address or any other info. Just info on the ticket for the Minor child that DH had primary custody of.

SS did not show up for the flight and BM did not report anything to the airline and has not contacted the airline since.

BM was in the Admin position and may have had access to this info (this is just a suspicion). We wouldn’t put Fraud past BM, especially since she was asking us to lower or suspend child support so she could afford to fly SS over just a week prior.

Other case scenario would be that she was doing something else with this guy, what person just gives up that many rewards point out of the goodness of their heart. And then lets the employee go weeks later. But who cares that’s not the point.

The point is she is lying to the court and to DH about having incurred all these cost and lost it all…… when that is not the case. She’s trying to collect it back from DH.

And if this guy did give up all these point we would like to thank him and at least offer him half and if it was fraud help him regain some of that back from the airline.

As for being admissible in court all DH has to say is that we contact the airline and the ticket is still valid and it was purchase on rewards. The rest is for BM to prove, which she can’t because she was not the one to Pay for Anything!! Nothing came out of her pocket.

overit2's picture

They can't prove over the phone it is his child-and if he wasnt' the purchaser of the ticket or redeemer of miles for ticket they shouldn't give him that info. It's a safety/security measure for each and every one of us. I know it feels good to gather this-but really it's distressing...which airline was this?? It's very unprofessional and they teach this in every class about divulging passenger information. The airline can get in big trouble for it. It likely would not be admissable in court. Just saying.

I'm assuming they had the ticket number if the itinerary was sent to him. I can see where they goofed up and gave him the info since he was giving the tkt number if that's what he did...but still, it was a big screw up on their part.

overit2's picture

I don't think you understand the legalities of it, but ok...yes I guess it's besides the point. I guess having belong to forums of abuse survivors that COUNT on airline confidentiality when fleeing their homes...this kind of thing really REALLY angers me. I don't care that they go their fill of "oh she lied"'s downright disturbing to me they would give that info freely away.

Shell8078's picture

Ok I hear your frustrated with the way this airline handled it. But please explain to me this….. Why and how would BM have anymore rights and access to this info than us since both she and DH would be considered a 3rd party to all of this anyway???

It would be the same if BM called with the ticket number and ask questions and/or requested a change right? So technically, her claim is not admissible in court either.

It's regarding a minor child that this one individual (rewards owner) has no connection too at all.

caregiver1127's picture

Shell when my SS comes to visit I do all of the calling of the airlines and buying of the tickets even when his BM did it - I am the one that makes the phone calls - the airlines did nothing wrong - your DH is the CP and congrats on catching your BM in a ton of lies - they will always come back to bite you in the ass - take it to court to prove she is lying - you have done nothing wrong!

overit2's picture

She would have rights to obtain information if she redeemed the miles and used her ccard to pay the taxes-they will speak to the card holder or passenger only. They typically have to give their billing address also for any taxes/fees paid.

As to how she obtained the I said-she would have to come through "pin" qualified via the phone or online in order to redeem this-and an e-mail would automatically go to the owner of the account to notify him and send him an electronic ticket receipt. So it's an assumption that she used the old bosses miles via fraud-possible-but an assumption none the less.

If she was their AA or secretary and had access to all this then MAYBE. I did an AA position to a VP here once-and I had passwords to most everything you can imagine confidential-and made his travel arrangements. But he never shared his mileage pin w/me...and as an individual i wouldn't either. He did his own if it involved him using his pin.

Yet I had records of everything else lol. Just saying-it's NOT that common for someone to obtain a pin or use someone else's miles via fraud.

Shell8078's picture

But She didn't. so since you saying we have no rights the the information and then she has no more rights to information then we do.

So now let me ask you, how does the minor child use this ticket ever if niether of the parents purchased it?? Can he call in and use our credit card number for the change fee?? Because I don't think a minor can legally do anything without a parent right? How would they know it's the child named on the ticket??

Also, so since BM gave the airline both parents info the airline should not give any info to wither persion because they are not the minor child nor are they the purchaser?

Oh and Just so you know I am a BM too, and have no problem having my Ex obtaining info about our children because he has every legal right, as long as they don't give out my account info who care. This isn't about some abusive person finding someone or stocking you. This is about a minor child and weither BM purchase this ticket and paid the escort fee which she claim she di (which neither the airline or DH got).

overit2's picture

CG...I'm sorry you are so naive on the are WRONG, period.

The OP didn't do anything wrong, no.

The airline did-they violated confidentiality. If he is the custodial parent they CAN release information but it would have to be a subpoena through courts to LEGALLY obtain this information.

At that-it's doubtful they would give DETAILS about the ticket, what was paid, how it was obtained. AT the most-IF and ONLY if they had a ticket number when they called the agent could possibly say "it's open for use...this is the penalty to change it". That's it!

The OP can take it to court-and lies are WRONG on part of the BM absolutely....but that does NOT mean the airline did nothing wrong- if you really don't know what you're talking about please don't make these kind of statements.

Now-I bet if they wanted to obtain "hard copies" from the airline about the details provided it wouldn't be as easy as a voice over the phone. WHY? Because they acted negligently in releasing this information.

Just because posters are biased against bm's mostly doesn't mean we can't call wrong wrong.

If the shoe were in the other foot-and the bmoms were obtaining information that Shouldn't be released to them-how would you feel? Double standards much?

Just like passengers calling us and saying-hey is my husband on this flight? This is his flight number. All we could say was if the flight was on time, that's it.

They could be anyone-we don't know...hence why there are rules.

If they provide most of the itinerary information, confirmation code we can say if there's a listing and review itinerary. Nothing else. If they give a ticket number you can say if it's open for use-if it's a minor you speak to the ccard holder that purchased the tkt to release further details. In this case the bm who paid the $5. OR possibly the one the miles came from.

There are confidentiality rules in place to protect children, adults, me, you, the op, her husband, the bmom, everyone. No exceptions.

Sometimes customers calling lie, and that's how they obtain info. Or they get an agent who wasn't trained properly or is just plain stupid. Keep this in mind though-if the BM finds out the airline released this info she could possibly sue them. So OP shoudl be careful in showing this card to a judge. And I doubt CS would be deducted from a civil suit.

Shell8078's picture

What airline do you work for??? So I can put your mind at ease and to reasure you that your company is not violating rights!

caregiver1127's picture

delete - I promised myself that I would not be nasty so I am bowing out and saying nothing!

overit2's picture

See luv and this happens a lot, especially if the same gender calls and say they are so and so...that's why they typically dig a little more to verify identity. THose are rules but bad agents are everywhere.

Dad can call and say he's the child-unless there is minor info documented in the record there's no way to know...or someone can pretend to be card holder...etc...
But yes we had customers trying to obtain info by pretending to be someone else-if we were in doubt and they couldn't verify certain things we would document the record for the next agent they tried to call so it would be visible. Not saying this is what happened w/them but it does happen.

Also-the 'cost' is true if the bm wanted to present that angle...there is a certain "value" assigned to tickets, free or not, all our free tickets we requested for our customers (travel agencies for example) had a value to them that went against that divisions budget. Mile tickets have a value assigned to them-as really they aren't free, they are earned. Now, the fact that it's someone elses miles...well again, you'd have to get proof she got miles from someone else-she could say she reimbursed the boss (with sexual favors who knows lol)...if she wants them to pay she has to show up some proof...and have a value assigned to it legally. Even if it's miles. might be mighty hard to obtain paper trail of the fact that they came from this guys account I bet.

Rags's picture

Have fun barring her ass in court. Barring the SpermIdiot’s ass in court is one of my favorite things to do. It is FUN!!!!

Be to the point and matter of fact about the information you and DH present. Judges tend to react in even more unpredictable ways than usual if you go in with a smart assed grin on your face as you bare the blended opposition's idiot asses.

Good luck and enjoy.

Best regards,

Shell8078's picture

We have already talked about our game plan as we will only answer question asked to us and we don't gloat at court my DH is learing from my ex's mistakes in court, beside she will be on a phone hearing anyway. She can't aford to fly over here.

overit2's picture

How do you prove she didn't pay for the ticket unless they have a copy of the electronic ticket receipt?

stepmasochist's picture

She needs to show a receipt for the ticket if she wants them to pony up for it. Their lawyer should demand she provide before they pay anything for a ticket it because there is some question that she actually paid for it.

Shell8078's picture

All we have to ask is for a copy which intend to do is she pushes the issue and want reimbursement for it.

purpledaisies's picture

I agree the bm has the burden of proof after all she is the one that wants daddy to pay! The fact that they know she didn't pay is that they can ask for the proof! They don't have to admit anything as evidence.

overit2's picture

I like that idea....if she wants reimbursement she should produce a ticket receipt, ccard purchase w/the airline vendor number. That way it's on her. I wouldn't honestly say a thing about the info you obtained. What you CAN say is that all carriers offer one year from date of purchase to exchange the ticket for a fee even if a ticket is non-refundable and of course any fare difference if any. THat's standard information.

Shell-what I"m saying is that IF she gave her ccard for the fee then they WILL talk to the purchaser about the ticket. Are you saying she used the guys ccard also to pay for the fee? Regardless...BOTH of you would need to prove their case.

And of course-I do stand by the fact and know it to be true that the airline DID not hold to standards of not divulging passenger information.

THere's thousands of custody cases gone bad when parents try to change tickets, get info, etc...that's why they will speak to the ticket holder OR the ccard holder. OR if in person to verify the relationship to the child. Once it gets stick the airlines will get very "procedural" about things-there's liability, lawsuits, rules, laws, etc...all there to protect you, me, your step child, the bio-mom, other words it benefits everyone.

You know how when you call a place they'll ask you to verify zip code, mailing address, etc....airlines many times do the same. We always had to verify billing address before proceding w/changes to a ticket or anyone trying to obtain info on a ticket. Yes it concerns me they did not act in the interest of their customers or the airline they work for. But really I guess it's not here or there.

Ask her for proof of the receipt...she can obtain one very easily by calling the airline if she lost it. If she used a ccard her billing statement will show it on there. If she paid cash (doubtful) she will have a receipt-and again airlines can send an electronic receipt anytime. Please know I'm not trying to get on your case about this-but letting you know about some legal issues.

I'm still curious as to how they were able to give you the info about what I assume would be a past date record -I don't believe that was answered but of course that's your right and your blog Smile

Shell8078's picture

DH intoduce hiself and explained that his son was schedule to fly on the date but SS n=refused to go hye asked what happens to the ticket for a no show they asked for the Ticket Number, They told DH that the ticket is still valid until next year. We asked for the cost and they responded with only $5 which covered the Tax and fee because is was purchased on a Rewards. If we wanted to have it change there was a $150. DH was confused and said Huh, So DH responded with so BM used her rewards point and the lady responsed with no ---- (rewards owner)did, and the fees we paid with the same card holder. He asked well how and the lady said she couldn't give out any further info.

The call was outsourced so maybe that has a barring on why info was given out

But how can SS use the ticket in the future if he wanted to??

overit2's picture

Yeah...see ...that's another vent, outsourcing ugghhh...our company put an end to it not long ago because of this kind of thing. So, see that's why I was questioning how it happened-but it makes more sense now.

I think though that if was the guys ccard he very well could have authorized it..or she used his account and ccard w/out permission-in which case she could get in BIG legal trouble.