Mental disengagement & SS
Five steps forward; two steps back. How quickly things change. We've been on the right path for a while now, and the last 6 months have been particularly good.
SS and I got along when he was a teenager. He had his issues, but he wasn't going along with the PAS program the way his sister was, and he'd apologize when his behavior occasionally slipped into the "us vs. them" BM rule. He had even told me at one point that he felt his sister's behavior was extremely unhealthy. We know he had some issues with his mother.
It all changed about 7 years into our marriage after BM basically threatened the skids with losing her life (it's a long and very revealing story that I can't share here--but, I have to admit, it was very cruel and very genius, because it worked). SS became a fullblown prick. DH took him on two all-expenses-paid vacations, and SS for the most part ignored DH. He'd use a nasty tone when talking to DH and pretty much cut off from me. His (rare) visits to our home were not pleasant ones--except for one, when both DH and I had very open conversations with him. But it was after that visit when SS went more dark than ever before. Looking back, it was a pattern with the skids: they would see us, then they'd go home to BM and I suspect they were "deprogrammed." I used to say she probably put them in a dark room with a lightbulb hanging over their heads. All the while, even when things were at the best point with SS, he was still constantly posting "mommy and me" cheek-to-cheek photos and Mommy Worship posts on social media (well into his 30s). The whole thing was weird.
His last 2 - 3 visits to our home have been unbearable. He is overtly rude to me and acts like a lazy using mooching ground sloth who wants money thrown at him. He is arrogant and, honestly, a very unlikable person. I think out in the world, most people see him as . . . a prick.
I have happily disengaged. AND THEN. SS went on a spiritual/awakening retreat (he has not jumped on the fanatical evangelical wagon that BM and SD are on. . . this was different). He calls DH yesterday and is apparently gushing about this experience. DH says hold on, let Mia hear about this (not so illogically thinking I'd be interested) and puts SS on speaker. SS sounds . . . overwhelmed, somewhat emotional, "cleansed," YET, in his voice, there is still this distance and, in the 5 minutes I was present for the conversation, he still (still, still, still, still) brought up his MOTHER (this is like a neverending compulsion with both skids).
After the call, DH said he felt "antsy," and he was going on and on about how great this sounded for SS. I saw it: DH is thinking SS is cured from prickdom. DH seems relieved that his son is cured from being an ahole. It's a freaking MIRACLE! I reminded DH, "You'll need to see how this goes. He is just coming off of this 'high' and will be reentering real life in the coming days."
My mood immediately plummeted watching DH fall down the BS hole of hope again (hopium?). I was even angry at myself for engaging in a piece of the conversation, as I told myself I was totally disengaged. I was mad at myself for the sliver of hope I, too, felt, that perhaps SS might be finding his way back to who he was so many years ago. Yet I heard it in his voice--the distance from me, the dislike. When I was present, he was talking to a stranger. And then the neverending sick compulsion to always insert his mother into any and every conversation in my presence.
This morning, I woke up feeling down. DH is in a bad mood (why wouldn't he be in a good mood if he believes all is wonderful?). He's now, as we speak, scrolling through pictures of the grands.
I have not mastered disengaging emotionally or not having skid shenanigans impact me or our homelife. I haven't gotten to that point of observing with disengagment. It's times like these that I want to warn everyone not to ever get involved in these situations. Although DH and I are not tortured on a daily basis, we do not have troubled skids living with us, and we live states away from the skids, this freaking dark effing cloud floats over and into our lives every so often, and, I believe, will forever. My tolerance is so low that even one conversation, one day, one mood feels like too much after all these years. I feel like DH brought a shopping cart full of baggage (like you see on the streets) into our relationship, a shopping cart covered with a blanket until we got married, and, however light the cart has gotten through the years, it is still there. He is still lugging it around.
When someone shows you who they are, believe them. I need that tattooed on my forehead.
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Comments
I've been through this too
I've been through this too, for the last 12 years. I honestly believe that the more mentally healthy your DH becomes about his kids being messed up, the better your relationship and life will be. As my DH has his occasional "epiphanies" about his kids, and his own behavior of enabling them, he becomes a better husband. He becomes more willing to invest in his own life instead of being on call for his loser kids.
Just this last Fathers Day DH was so depressed about his kids, who were angry with him at the time. He felt like his life's work and his identity of being a father was basically flushed down the toilet. He felt like an empty shell. I talked him a bit about how he can set boundaries and respect himself while still loving his kids and being there for them in certain ways. He broke down and said I was the best thing that ever happened to him, and thanked me for being there for him through all this. It was something I'd wanted to hear for so long. Finally, the spell is broken!
So I get what you are going through. Its tough when DH takes one step forward and two steps back - as he tries to come to terms with the fact that his kids are behaving like shitbags and don't appreciate him at all. But when he does realize this, he will also see how much you have helped him. I wish this for you too.
I know that we have to always be on guard against the "hopium" and being too forgiving of DH, but if you plan to stay with him and encourage him to be a better parent, then this will happen once he see the truth. I believe that.
Hang in there and continue to be strong. Raise your voice. Take action without asking permission. Do what needs to be done to keep yourself sane and your house peaceful.
Thank you. We had a good talk
Thank you. We had a good talk a couple hours after I posted this.
I can understand that having
I can understand that having once had a good relationship with SS - you might hope to get back to that again. But really, it sounds like he is right up BM's arse and this will probably not change now. I love your description of your DH bringing a "shopping cart covered with a blanket" into your relationship. This is what I feel my DH did, too. He told me when he met that he and NPD BM had an "amicable" divorce. Ha bloody ha. No they didn't!! Or at least maybe until I entered the picture and she could no longer pull his strings.
It seems that your DH is still after his son's approval. What a shame. Did your DH have an effective father? I suspect not. Oh well, it is what it is - guard your heart, is my advice regarding SS.
I was told that DH and BM
I was told that DH and BM were "friends" when we met. No. He was a puppet who did whatever the controlling B wanted for fear of her turning the kids against him. DH's father lost his father at a young age. The man was not a good father at all. DH's parenting was being the fun guy or the disciplinarian. No in between.
He told me when he met that
THIS exactly.
The Disneyland dad I dealt with though he was going to be bffs with his ex wife. In his mind bending over backwards to keep the peace meant she would never drag him in court and hit him in the wallet.
In reality she was already dragging him (non court fake "bff" style) and hitting him in his wallet every chance she or her cash grabbing spawns could get. It was so bad I demanded he pay her ONE time each month, tell her to figure out how to make it work, and all 3 of them stop calling for nonstop cash grabs.
The moment he told her we were moving in together that nutjob suddenly left town and took her spawns with her. I was relieved to have her go far away but this joker was doubled over in codependent pain thinking he'd never see his spawns again. It was a complete power play on her part and deep in denial Disneyland dad was too obtuse to believe that his bff of an ex wife would screw him over.
These conniving exes are fine as long as their B. Beck n Call system is operating 24/7 .... which no new wife/partner in her right mind would tolerate.
I told mine - you can keep up those B. Beck n Call shenanigans you used to do as a single man and you will find yourself right back single again.
If they don't want to stop caving to their ex wife and kids incessant demands then they should be single until their kids are independent / off the court ordered payroll
My late DH
told me he and his ex were downright civil! and I thought "how mature!" because I never wanted to see or hear from my ex again. In the twenty years since my divorce I called him one time, because there was a kid emergency he had to know about. I never emailed him and rarely responded to his incessant inanities. And I never asked him for one red cent above CS EVER! It never even occurred to me to do that.
His ex, on the other hand, called him on a Saturday night, late, to bitch about their youngest. We were engaged in mutually pleasurable activities and his responses to her were clipped. After this had gone on for about five minutes I got up and started getting dressed which did the trick and he hung up. The next time she called him she told him how rude it was of him to have someone there when she called. Seriously.
Their relationship wasn't quite so civil after that.
I began to see early on the
I began to see early on the phone calls that came Friday evenings, which often involved highly exaggerated crises/outright ridiculous lies. Then the $$$ demands (well beyond CS) heated up. I smiled one night and said to DH, "She really wants to make sure you don't/can't date, doesn't she?" All of that was just mildly irritating (I just thought she was insecure and a bit controlling back then) compared to her behavior after we got married.
Too bad BM did not off
Too bad BM did not off herself as she threatened years ago and free everyone else from her misery.
Time to highlight to the SKidults, repeatedly, BM's threat to kill herself in order to manipulate the kids against their father. Lather.... rinse.... repeat.
No interface other than that when they reach out. Start the response to that reach out with "Are you engaging healthily or is this more of your mommy's suicide threat baggage? If you are engaging without the influence of BM or mentioning her in any way, great if not.. the discussion won't even start. Your mother has no place in your relationship with your father."
It was much more clever than
It was much more clever than a suicide threat. She sold everything she owned, including her house, kicked the skids out (but arranged for SD to live with a friend of hers) and put herself in a somewhat dangerous situation "because God told her to." She had a bullet proof vest. She did this not because God told her to do squat but because a) SS had a recent drug arrest and conviction, which ruined her professional dreams for him, and b) There were provocative pictures of SD going around the religious college she attended and she was basically shamed out of the useless hellhole. To snap the kids into behaving, BM scared the crap out of them. We thought that might be an opportunity to connect with them (and we felt bad for them) but apparently they had been commanded to continue to reject us (or reject us more) in order to prove their loyalty to her OR ELSE. You can't make this up. When she came home several months later, the skids were more devoted to her than ever. I had never seen so much and such extended Mommy Worship.
Wow. And yet they are sniffing her toxic ass so hard they are
lost to a decent life.
Sad.
SD is fully in it/up it. She
SD is fully in it/up it. She is BM and BM is her. SS has gone through phases of separating from her, yet, no matter what, he always gets drawn back in. He's been in therapy for nearly a decade. He hides his religious and political views from them and shares them with us in a very comedic manner. But while he and SD do not get along, he is very protective and defensive of her. Publicly, they are BFFs who wuv one another. It's "the fam." SS is very confused and lost, but I got tired of being treated like shit by him due to his loyalty to the bullet proof vest wearing lunatic.
That is so sad. I cannot
That is so sad. I cannot immagine being subsurviant to my parents or anyone else in my family. That is not how we work. We talk, we agree, we disagree, and we remain family who are respected by each other.
I Can Relate
It has been so peaceful the past 6 years, with only intermittent blips. DH has one kid local (who never comes around) and the others are flights away but those impacts still happen. And it took me a hell of a lot of work in therapy to get to the "observation" point with the toxic mess. I "slipped" so many times in those early years....forgiving, accepting, moving on....only to get the toxic crap treatment again and again. Eventually, they hit too hard and while they sent me spiraling for a few years, I was in therapy and I am back STRONG.
It's very difficult to see your spouse treated poorly and actually LET themselves be treated poorly. I had to come to the place where I accepted it was his battle and protect myself. As long as their ugly behaviors were not impacting me, I learned to let it go. It also helped that I made my self so disengaged, I knew nothing of his kids and he rarely told me any thing about them.
While I don't question people's "religious" experiences, I DO watch their behaviors. Time will tell. And that is the key word. Time. Because if he had a true encounter, he MUST change to match his new found faith. I hope your DH can see that and give this some additional time before getting too hopeful.
Big hug to you.
An interesting characteristic
An interesting characteristic of the profoundly devout is that they are often the most toxic and morally bankrupt in the blended family mix.
SpermGrandHag is that person in our blended family adventure. She was a highly regaded member of her fringe Christian cult. She had a very cleanly constucted facade of the perfect cult member for a very long time. Then, her idiot son started breeding every underage womb he could get his junk on.
He dated a number of underage GFs before my DW started dating him at 15. He was in his early 20s. DW had SS when she was 16. The Spermidiot was 23 when SS was born.
DW was the start of the unraveling of SpermGrandHag's perfect church/cult lady facade. DW kicked the Spermidiot out when he cheated on her before SS turned 1yo. DW had full physical and legal custody from SS's birth. She graduated HS with honors with SS on her hip and shortly thereafter left SpermLand for University out of State.
Not one word from SpermGrandHag. Until... the SpermLand grapevine picked up that DW was dating someone at school. Then it was game on. Spermidiot was flying in a couple of times to visit SS and never got off of the plane after DW and SS had taken several busses to the airport to get him. That was pre me.
When DW and I started dating, SpermGrandHag lost her damned mind.
Over hte 16+ years we lived under a CO when me married, SpermGrandHag kept circling the cult standing drain until her idiot son finaly bred her out of favor with the cult.
As her standing in the cult declined, she actually grew slightly more reasonable since she was losing in court against DW and was going down in flames with the the cult leadership. The culmonation of her demise in the cult was the Spermidiots two biracial also out of wedlock children followed by SS asking me to adopt him.
When SS told the Hag that he had asked me to adopt him and the judge had approved the adult adoption order, she finally folded her toxic bullshit and told him she was happy that he had a good man as an example of a father.
She still emits some of her stench upon occassion with guilt attempts toward my son. So far, he does not bite on her guilt and has kept her and the rest of the SpermClan at a distance and pretty much has no contact with them.
IMHO, always be warry of those in the blended family opposition taking a devout religious position as an attempt to present themselves as superior. More often than not, they use that facade to ply more noxious evil bullshit. Ultimately when the toxic smoke clears, quality beats facade every time. Hopefully anyway.
IMHO, always be warry of
ABSOLUTELY!!! DH describes BM as "using the Bible as a shield" while behaving like a demon.
Thank you!
Thank you!
SS means nothing to you he your SO kid
If SS disrespect you, that's fine, that's his choice. But that's gives you choices too. Disengagement, not doing anything for SS. If DH doesn't understand that. That's a major problem with him. Tell DH SS can win you back. By respect you as a adult. He has a year to accomplish this. Next June we will revisit the SS family ranking. And of course this is his last chance.
'But no money fest. No new phones, clothing, cars, vacation, trips. Next June
DH does understand the
DH does understand the "absolutely nothing" clause in my disengagement. We are in agreement about the skids not stepping foot in our house again. The skids are past the age of any parent purchasing phones, clothing, or cars for them (woops--let me back up: SD & useless SSIL suckered the grandmother-in-law into giving them a car, which they promptly sold).
DH occasionally dreamily talks about trips and I visibly and openly roll my eyes. Not a good idea, but I'm not going and I'm not contributing $.
I like your idea of a year to see how this sudden "enlightenment" goes for SS. I have a feeling it will all be dismissed/forgotten within a few months, or he'll pick and choose how to progress, and none of that will have to do with his relationships with us. Either way, none of this means I'm making any effort with him at all. I'll just observe from afar. Thanks.
Mental problems from the birth mother
Normally start showing in the teenage years. BM is not normal, most likely the kids have the same illness. All you can do is disengagement from all of this. It's DH'S Kids. He still believes there a switch out there than can be thrown to make all right with his kids again. It's his flesh and blood he feels differently, He not going to give up hope.
'But he also must understand how you feel. You did nothing wrong. There no reason to pick on you. DH must have your back
He does. He gets it. He even
He does. He gets it. He even gets how they treat him like s***. As the bio parent, he feels this hope and obligation to . . . well, talk to them and hope. Yea, he gets the bare minimum out of that. It's heartbreaking for many reasons, one being that I have heard his conversations with his kids and him telling them he loves them, and that wasn't my relationship with my father, yet I respected him and treated him 400% better. Many people don't know what they have until it's gone.