Kids as mini adults
I know people always say that kids are not mini-adults and should be treated as kids, but I recently had a realization that I always treated my DD (nearly 21) as a mini adult when she is growing up and I much prefer kids that way. I know it definitely comes down to parenting styles, but I think everyone would always be much happier if kids nowadays were raised and treated as if they were being prepared for growing up instead of the opposite of babying them because the parent doesn't want the kid to grow up. I certainly agree that kids should have kid time where they can play, be stupid and just enjoy their childhood, but at the same time:
* We started taking my daughter out to restaurants when she was 2 days so from the time she could walk and talk, she knew how to act in restaurants. There was also no wiping of mouths on shirt sleeves, not using utensils properly or slumping down in chairs.
* Whenever my daughter was playing with friends inside or would ask, it was approved but only if they could play quietly. If they wanted to yell and scream like banshees, they could go outside.
* My dd was also able to hold a conversation with an adult. She was not allowed to disrespect an adult, not greet an adult or respond when spoken to, give stupid blank stares, etc.
* She was always expected to act properly, no matter where we were. The mom death stare would commence immediately anytime she got the least bit out of hand in a store or public place and it was nipped immediately
* Not mine, but I have a friend that has a son and even at about 10 years old (which is when I first met him), he shook hands with adults when they met and when a woman got up from the dinner table, he stood and also learned how to help a woman in her chair when she returned
These are just a few examples, but IMHO, kids should be raised to know how to act as they grow up. Nowadays, parents just want to let the kids grow up on their own and raise themselves....particularly divorced dads. They want the kids to be kids and I guess just magically learn how to be a good adult when the time comes! :O
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I would argue you didn't
I would argue you didn't raise your child as a mini-adult, but rather, as a respectful child learning slowly how to be an adult someday.
A mini-adult has all the privileges of being a peer to other adults, allowed opinions on adult matters and given adult responsibilities (i.e. managing household budget items, weighing in on long-term goal planning, and questioning the effectiveness of rules/boundaries). My guess is your DD21 wasn't "that" kid.
Congrats on turning a well-adjusted and responsible child into an adult!! The world (and I, personally) thank you.
I guess what I meant is for
I guess what I meant is for kids to be raised to act like mini adults, not necessarily have the same responsibilities or input. Most people I have had the conversation with believe that kids should be allowed to be kids and be allowed to enjoy their childhood as well as the fact that these same parents tend to make excuses for their kids when they do act inappropriately that "they are only kids"...including my BF! That grates my nerves quickly. These are usually the ones too with brats that don't know how to act properly or grow up to become like a lot of these skids we hear about on these boards.
SS15 invented and patented
SS15 invented and patented that stare, complete with crickets chirping!
I think when people refer to
I think when people refer to raising kids as "mini-adults" they are making reference to giving the kids too much say in the adult goings on and kids acting as though the parent is THEIRS ONLY. A lot of times, it is just lack of boundaries.
I remember when I was really young and my uncle and best friend died suddenly at age 16, I knew something was wrong but nobody would TALK to me. I remember thinking that someday if I had a child, I would remember that being young does NOT always equal being stupid!
I agree in general. I am
I agree in general. I am wary of going overboard. I am sick of children being coddled and entertained and given power they shouldn't have. But I am also sick of children being held to adult standards and not given the opportunity to make mistakes as part of a learning process. Of course 3 yo kids have bad table manners... compared to a 13 yo (well, one would hope...) But to hold either to the standard of the other is so, so wrong.
I guess the middle ground must not be so easy to find?
The point being however is
The point being however is that 3 year old with bad table manners needs to be taught how to have proper table manners instead of just saying "well he's just a kid and it's expected at that age". That's a cop out that so many parents use because they don't want to parent. It also doesn't help for when the kids do become a 13 year old with no table manners.
Like I said in my OP, my dd was taken to restaurants from the time she was 2 days old (and being that I didn't cook at that time, we went out to restaurants probably 4-5 days a week) and even at 3 years old was expected to sit in a chair properly, use utensils properly, not complain or make a mess, etc. I expected her to sit and act like an adult even at 3 years old and many people fault me for that saying that I was being too harsh on her...but ya know what? She knows how to act properly now as a true adult because of it.
ETA: As another example, my BF still provides baby utensils to his kid at 10 years old instead of teaching him or making him use proper adult utensils, including using a spoon for a lot of dishes that 99.9% of people use a fork for. They (both kids 10 and 12) also are not allowed to use regular cups/ glasses and only have to use sports type bottles with lids for all drinks. Geez, I stopped that with my dd when she was like 3-4?
There may be something
There may be something personal that underlies my response. I was raised with a unrealistically high expectations - like, I had a paper route (age 10), that I handled perfectly fine by myself. Until a few months in when my dad expressed his disappointment that I still only had the one route because he knew of a kid who had four or five routes and hired other kids to do his routes for him and was some kind of paper-route entrepreneur. So being a 10 yo kid with a paper route wasn't good enough, I was held to the business entrepreneurship standards of an older, completely different child.
The table manners thing I was taking like it wasn't ok to be 3 yo and not able to cut your own steak yet. Or in trouble because the kid still needs regular reminders about expectations. That in fact being 3 yo developmentally was not acceptable for a 3 yo, that 13 yo behaviour was expected and punishments meted out for failure.
I don't think that's what you meant though. I think you just meant that you expected appropriate behaviour and provided consequences as necessary, and as a result, over time, the child who originally couldn't hold a fork is now able to gracefully eat a steak.
That was not a mini-adult
That was not a mini-adult that was a nice, respectful child. I raised mine the same way. I never considered him an adult, just a child raised with expectations of behavior.
Now at 19, he is a really good kid, doing well in college. That is all I can ask for.
I am preparing my 3 and 5
I am preparing my 3 and 5 year olds to live without me- they both know how to run the washer, dishwasher, put away their own clothes and pick up their stuff. We even picked up a stick vac that is light enough for me to use and the 5 year old can do it and the 3 year old can use it as a handheld. They complained about the big broom so we now have a little whisk broom they can use themselves. Contrary to popular belief they have perhaps 15-20 minutes of chores per day, it makes a real difference to my husband because if it is not done these are all things that have to be done after working all day and taking care of me. I am a stickler about manners- I am too tired and physically unable to run after kids who get up from the table so if you get up your dinner is over (unless you need the bathroom). My poor husband was getting up multiple times to grab toddlers so I finally had it and warned the kids what would happen the next meal. I had to dump one plate once last year. The last time I was in the hospital we had people offer to take the little ones on an outing (SS was with BM), they were so impressed with how well they listened and didn't run off into the crowds. Back when I was first getting sick and having a hard time keeping up with them I had to come down hard on bolting for everyone's safety. I wanted to have kids other people could stand to be around- as things come crashing down it is so important.
My SS12(50/50) has a few jobs here like setting the table, wiping it down after dinner and helping with garbage/recycling but he half asses it much of the time to the point where the little kids will take over because dinner is ready on the table but no one has napkins, glasses or silverware yet and they are hungry and want to eat. I have started having him set the table 30 minutes before dinner so that doesn't happen as much. DH and I are not entirely on the same page about kid chores but he sees my point on a purely practical level and feels a bit better since I pointed out that we are celebrating independence and because the have to's are done there is more time for family time. Yesterday he took the kids to the park after dinner to play and told them there was time because of all their hard work.
SS3 doesn't have chores but I
SS3 doesn't have chores but I "ask" him to help me unload the dishwasher. He loved organizing and putting the forks and spoons away. And most days he helps with turning the laundry over and starting loads. He enjoys helping me and the praise/attention he gets when he does help around so I don't see it as a bad thing either. It's a win win especially since he will moan and groan about it when he's a teenager.
Kids need to learn how to act
Kids need to learn how to act in society and that starts at a young age. Age appropriate personal accountabilty and manners are taught to my BS3. SD11 and SS 12 have manners but are severely lacking in personal responsiblity and we try... but not so much we can do when you are fighting against BM.
My son spilled my drink last night. I said 'quick go grab a towell'. ... he grabbed the towel, cleaned it up and looked at me and said 'sorry mommy'. Though he sometimes forgets but he's just 3.. but every moment is a teaching moment.
OK, there's a difference
OK, there's a difference between treating your kids like mini adults, i.e. expectations and ALLOWING YOUR KIDS to make ADULT decisions…big, huge difference.
Me and DH treat SS3 like he's
Me and DH treat SS3 like he's a mini-adult in the sense that if he can do something for himself we make him. Like putting on his clothes or jackets. Yes he's three and he struggles, but he's been doing it since he's 2 so now we don't feel the need to sit him on the stool and put his socks on him. We know he knows how so he can do it. On the flip side we always have him choices. If he wasn't listening at dinner time we would offer him the choice: you can either go get in your bed or finish your dinner. Usually he chooses to finish his dinner. Now that the terrible threes have hit we see that this probably wasn't our most genius parenting moments since now if we tell him to do something or go to his bed, he'll say "I'll go get in my bed then". Before he was three, going to bed early was the absolute worse but now he thinks going to bed is better than having to finish his veggies. Ehh ya live and ya learn. Now we tell him to do what we want and if he suggest just going to his bed instead we tell him he can go after he's done doing whatever we want him to do. But yeah, we've taken SS out since he was a baby and anytime he's being rude or "one of those kids" we correct it. Our newest thing we are working on is interrupting adults while talking, but we are only on week one so we haven't found the most effective way to correct it yet. His Mom used to get pissed that we would hold him at age 2 anymore or carry him like a baby, but what she never realized is that when he's with us he doesn't want to be treated that way. He loves feeling big enough to make decisions (like do you want orange juice or grape juice) and to be able to show us he could walk next to us in the grocery store instead of being in the buggy. In fact he points out the kids acting out in public, sometimes too loudly, that they are crying too much or not being big like him. I think he's pretty perfect when it comes to being a preschooler because we chose not to coddle him.