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Vent - update

GoingWicked's picture

So, the "modesty" issue came to a head, DH is taking away all SD's skirts, because she was body shaming other women for not being modest.  He was deeply disturbed, I think her possible borderline issues, along with her constant rude behavior and lack of friends has caused him to hit rock bottom with her.  He told me he is very ashamed about the way he's behaved in the past and he had apologized to me over and over again this past weekend.  We decided that she can earn her skirts back.  We figure when she starts acting like a Christian (not the judgy, holier than thou, or preachy kind) she can start dressing like one. Hopefully this means SD will get some help, and I feel on the verge of crying I'm so thankful.    I don't like her as a person, I don't like having her around, but I do care about her.  I spent today reading tons on boundaries, mostly because confronting DH about SD always stresses me out, and I told him I'm planning on staying completely disengaged until I see evidence that she has changed.  So no camping trip for her regardless.  As much as I think she needs to be in nature, I need to keep my space.

I also wanted to share an article, I thought it was pretty eye opening, and it helped us make the decision to take the skirts away.  I'm not LDS but this woman is, and she shared an awesome article about the dangers of "modesty"


SonOfABrisketMaker's picture

I don't really agree with the solution of taking her skirts.

Women didn't fight to get out of those skirts, they fought to have a choice. Why are you taking her choice away? 

I agree that there needs to be a discussion about fabrics and sleeve length in this heat (check out Zulily. Fairly inexpensive modest dresses in light fabrics) but also consider that desert dwellers also cover up in light colors to protect themselves from the sun. 

GoingWicked's picture

Because she is still a child.  If she were using the skirts to demonstrate her own personal preference that would be one thing, however she is using the skirts as a weapon so she can feel superior and be hurtful to others.  She already has zero friends, now she is starting to alienate herself from family.

lieutenant_dad's picture

Any child who uses an object or ideology to bully others needs to become disconnected from said object or ideology.

I would HIGHLY recommend your DH going to church with SD and meeting the youth pastor. He needs to know what his child is being taught in regards to morality, and he needs to know who the people are teaching her.

I went to a conservative, evangelical church (no required skirts, but VERY strict views on modesty and morality). My parents did not. While it was really good for me for a while, it changed my personality quite a bit. My mother came to one service and threatened to pull me out. She saw their hypocrisy and disagreed with much of their teaching. She continued to let me go, but she was far more involved in what I was learning after that.

My connection with the church ended when I could no longer maintain their "ideal Christian" status. I participated in Bible Quiz. Instead of trying to foster me through that program, they eventually tried to kick me out because my parents refused to volunteer for it and I couldn't make every Wednesday and Sunday practice (which had become a new requirement when the "Golden Child" of the group wanted to WIN WIN WIN!). I was devestated because I liked doing it, and they let me stay after my mom gave them a piece of her mind. That was thr beginning of a slow, bitter end.

Call me biased, but any church that promotes demonizing others, or promotes modesty over everything else, is not one that a child should be attending ALONE. There are too many ways to interpret the teachings, and without a good, trusted adult there to help a minor work through it, those ideas can become twisted and dangerous. If the church is ACTUALLY teaching twisted and dangerous ideology, then a minor has no business attending period.

GoingWicked's picture

We know. She is no longer allowed to attend the crazy church.  He attended with her once and thought they were nuts, but in true Disney dad fashion, he doesn’t tell her “no, they’re crazy, you cant go”.  Instead, he let the crazy church come in their crazy van to pick her up and take her.   A month ago she had a major meltdown when I stood up and refused to sit and watch her get water baptized at the crazy church.  DH was just going to let them do it! I told her she should wait and have a serious discussion with our pastor.  All of a sudden SD starts freaking out.  (There’s more ugly stuff but I’ll preserve her privacy.) She gets banned by both BM and DH from associating with crazy church again. (BTW both DH and I come from atheist backgrounds, we’re skeptical of all religions, and are totally non judgemental towards anyone who isn’t harming other people, and our church reflects our values — her boyfriend’s obviously doesn’t.)  

This is probably going to sound tacky but DH told me he was going to tell her he’d rather her come home a vegan, an atheist, and a lesbian than wearing skirts and acting the way she acted towards those other teen girls.   So I looked up that article to give him something a little better to discuss with her.

twoviewpoints's picture

Can I ask, what was SD doing , while wearing her skirt, to body shame other woman? Was she approaching other girls/women and verbally belittling them? Jumping on social media leaving unsolicited messages? 

What did the child do between your last post and this one , besides wearing the skirts, to cause your husband to be alarmed that his daughter was using her clothing as a weapon and body shaming other females? 

GoingWicked's picture

She was refusing to look at or shake hands with other teen girls at our church.  She didn’t know them, we thought she was being shy.  They really weren’t dressed poorly.  Even if they were, there is no reason to be rude.  Then she went home to BMs and started talking badly about them, and the way they were dressed.  I’m not sure exactly what was said, BM told DH over the phone.

beebeel's picture

It's great that BM sees what is happening and is coparenting on this! That is 85 percent of the battle. When my sd started getting hateful/ignorant ideas from her youth pastor, it became a fight between DH and BM because anytime he told the skids "no," she went out of her way to undermine him. 

My SD still attends her church, spouts ignorant crap about Muslims and other faiths, meanwhile dressing like a hooker all over her social media pages. 

She would come home, at age 12/13, having "learned" about abortion at church. So here she is ranting about "killing babies" the same week she was caught making out with her best friend's boyfriend. 

She has become a Jesus Christ Super Slut. And her "faith" will be why she can't have an abortion at age 18 when she lies about being on birth control to some sucker (just like her mother).

lieutenant_dad's picture

Sounds a bit like BM here.

Her FB page is COVERED in "Godly" and patriotic messages. She spouts a lot of the "Jesus forgives me even though I'm not perfect" stuff. Sings in the church choir. Attends a bunch of the functions. Raises money for various causes (and by "raises money", I mean she sends the kids to us and my ILs asking for donations; the most recent was to support a crisis pregnancy center, which I informed them that we would NOT be donating).

She does all this while cussing, having a boatload of tattoos and piercings, having slept with multiple men and women while married to either DH or XH, dating married men, fraudulently taking credit out in DH's name, lying by omission, etc.

And her church is cray-cray. It's an unaffiliated community church that is anti-LGBT, pro-HIV among "sinners", anti-HPV vaccine, and anti-choice. Basically, all the hallmarks of an evangelical church (including international mission work while doing no real mission work at home) without the big hair and long dresses.

How she can stand to go there is beyond me.

ProbablyAlreadyInsane's picture

OUrs spouts similar, though recently it's been "keeping your ex from the children does more damage than you think!" nonsense. MIL showe dme, I laughed and asked what kind of damage abandoning them for a year does then... Cuz we're only keeping them from her now due to threats and a pending court date...

I think it's part of the Narc coming out in a lot of our BMs... They have to preach, but they find themselves exempt from the realities of life and whatever flavor of religion they're preaching.

marblefawn's picture

I say address her being rude and ignore the skirt thing.

If you tell her no to something, she will gravitate toward it. Left alone, she'll likely outgrow the crazy church.

Dressing modestly isn't a crime, and as someone else said, it's better than the alternative.

She needs to learn tolerance and the best way to teach it is to show it.

GoingWicked's picture

We thought this at first, and we really are not 100% sure about it, but she’s not mentally healthy, she has no friends, and she has no idea what is good for her right now.  She is going to attend a support group, and DHs is working on getting her a psych.   She has tons of other issues too.  A lot of this unkindness is DHs fault.  He realizes that.  He has never required that she even be remotely nice or friendly to anyone, even in our home.  The skirts are the only thing we can take away right now that she cares about.  Other than her phone, but her mom worries she will cut herself off from family if we do that.  We figured she can earn her skirts back when she starts treating others with kindness.

GoingWicked's picture

And for the record skirts are less modest than pants, in fact skirts are more easily lifted up and out of the way.  They are men’s nasty definition of modesty.  I would much rather be wearing pants with lots of buttons down a dark alley than a skirt any day.

GoingWicked's picture

Also now that I think about it, I wouldn’t really care if she was dressed in a tube top and daisy dukes all summer so long as she is happy, healthy and doing it for the right reasons,