Does Parental alienation never backfire?
For YEARS BM has actively tried to turn SS17 against DH. Below is just a FEW of the big things
1. BM told SS at 12 yrs old that DH is NOT his real dad as SS came from a Sperm donor. BM Amitted to saying this giving the reason as SS had the right to know the truth. Reality it was done to weaken father/son bond.
2. SS was in therapy for behavioral issues at home/school. During therapy BM, DH and SS would talk with the therapist together. BM would rehearse with SS before each therapy appointment and had a "secret code" on how SS was supposed to answer. Like if BM scratched her right ear SS was to answer No. DH noticed a pattern but unfortunately the therapist did not and SS refused to back DH.
3. BM always played the "fun parent". Never backing DH on any punishment and would actually reward SS for being defiant at our house. We know this as SS would tell us he does not care if we punish him as BM would make up for our punishment with gifts. So basically Bm was rewarding him for causing problems at our home.
Finally 9 months ago SS17 flipped a nut as DH took SS17 car away for a week for skipping school. SS17 told DH he was NOT his real dad and BM had told SS17 he did not have to listen to DH then pushed DH against the wall and walked out. We have not heard anything in 9 months from SS or BM. I'm Thrilled to be rid of them both BUT DH is sad.
I fear DH will be reaching out in a few more months to SS17. My only saving grace is I'm sure BM will be doing everything she can to keep SS17 Alienated from DH but As SS17 gets older he will see that his mother caused a lot of problems and dump her and come live with us.
When one parent turns the child against the other patient does it usually backfire?
Sadly, rather than backfire,
Sadly, rather than backfire, it usually succeeds.
In our case though, it did backfire. That is due to the basic level of idiocy on the part of my SS's idiot NCP spermclan.
I have always found it peculiar that though they only had limited long distance visitation they would go full court press on PASing SS against his mom and I when SS was on SpermLand visitation. They made zero effort to contact him between visits, but during visits it was a PAS circus.
SS would come home upset with what they had told him. We would sit SS down to discuss it, review the facts (CO, CS history, Spermidiot divorce records, arrest records, etc, etc, etc...). SS learned their tells when they were lying and developed a highly effective smell test regarding their manipulations. Eventually he started calling them on it face to face. SpermGrandHag would lose her mind when he would do that. Her issue was that we kept him up to speed on the facts and he had full access to our Custody/Visitation/Support records. When they lied, he researched once he got home. Including reading the CO, listening to the court recordings, answering machine tapes of SpermGrandHag's vitriolic ranting messages, every recorded telephone conversation when the Hag would call railing at his mom (My DW), lawyers would call etc. We lived in a single party consent state for recording calls. We could record any call we were a party to without notification of anyone else on the call. He also reviewed the supplemental county rules regarding visitation and support, as well as the State regulations. As he got older, when they lied he knew it immediately.
Ultimately their crap cost them just about all interface with SS once he aged out from under the CO and completed his final COd visitation with them after graduating HS and then turning 18yo.
They were all over ending CS on his birthday. They had cried about his starving 3 younger half sibs by 2 other baby mamas who did not have the nice things SS had or the quality of life SS had. This was their tactic starting when SS was a little boy and his first half sib was born. His mom went CPA on that and built and mantained a cumulative support spreadsheet showing the CS Vs what it cost for our family to live, then breaking out the element of that cost associated with SS's support. $133/mo in CS covers just about nothing against the costs of supporting and raising a kid. That spreadsheet was key to SS realizing that they were lying to him about their claims that the CS they paid for his support was denying his younger half sibs food, etc...
As soon as he turned 18 they stopped all contact for 8mos. I think that it bothered him though he shrugged it off in appearance. But maybe not. They never called him even once in the 16+ years of the CO just to talk with him. Calls wer either to scream at my DW or to arrange visitation travel since they did not have the intellectual ability to make their own travel arrangements. So at that point is was just par for the course he had experienced with them his whole life.
SS enlisted in the USAF and reported for basic training 8mos after his 18th B-day. It was then that the SpermClan put the final nail in their own coffin regarding SS. They started pushing him to pay them back the 16+ years of CS that had been COd to pay for SS's support. SS wrote them all off at that point. They used his 3 younger half sibs as their reasoning for attempting that guilt trip.
At 31yo he has had zero contact with any of them including his 3 younger half sibs in years. Sadly the 3 half sibs include one who has been on the dole for years, one who is serving a long prison sentense, and the last who is not far behind the inmate.
Though he presents as if it does not matter to him, I have no doubt that it bothers him.
SpermGrandHag's reaction is a
SpermGrandHag's reaction is a perfect example to illustrate that "the truth hurts".
My fixation on keeping Skids
My fixation on keeping Skids up on the facts is not intended to cause pain to the Skids or anyone else. It is that I/we have seen the consequences of PAS or manipulation from a toxic end of a Skids blended family gene pool and how effective the facts are at countering that.
The SpermClan is all about the facade. So are my ILs. I think it is a small town thing prominanty in their neck of the woods. Positioning themselves with some superiority complex position when there is nothing behind it is fairly common in SpermLand.
Then again, my XIL clan had the worst case of t his I have ever seen and they are nowhere near SpermLand. The SpermClan nor my IL clan are hardcore felons (Except for Spermidiot Spawn #3). My XILs were hard core embezzlers.
Hmmm. Maybe some introspection is in order for me?
No, it doesn’t backfire. My
No, it doesn’t backfire. My DH’s Spawn’s Mother is a drug addict, and the way Spawn acts that woman walks on water. Spawn is aged out and had no relationship with DH, she refuses to forgive him “for all he’s done to her”, like having rules and you know expectations of her. But her and Meth Mouth are BFF’s and despite being a drug addict with several convictions and spending time in jail, Spawn forgives Meth Mouth every single time.
My cousin's DD struggles with
My cousin's DD struggles with the deification of her deceased Alcoholic mother. She is very close to her dad, my cousin, but struggles intensely with grief over the demise of her mom.
Interestingly, she had pretty much written her mother off for a number of years due to the toxicity, etc.... She is the one that found her mom when they had reconnected and done some work rebuilding their relationship. I am sure finding her deceased mother is in large part what drives her intense deification of her tragically flawed mother.
It may be a guilt/rescue project mentality that drives your SD's intense connection with Meth Mouth.
It also doesn’t help that
It also doesn’t help that Meth Mouth has painted herself as a victim her whole life, she used to tell Spawn she had to leave DH because he was abusive…my DH is very passive and has never lifted a hand to anybody. She also told Spawn second EX sexually assaulted her and was abusive…again never happened. She accused a long list of different men (neighbor, co-worker, friends’ husband, etc.) of sexual assault. She told Spawn that was the reason she began abusing drugs was so she could cope with all the trauma. GandHag also perpetuated the myth that her Meth Mouth was a victim, and it was up to Spawn to help her get better. So now Spawn is fiercely loyal and protective of her poor victim mother. Spawn herself has picked up the victim mentality and uses it to bash DH and I. She was just a kid and look how we abused her mentally and emotionally, how we kept her from Meth Mouth and ruined both their lives…and on it goes.
The power of a parent that
The power of a parent that abuses that power to manipulate their child against the other bio parent is strong.. and the child is often with that PAS primary parent and relies on them as the primary parent.. so the risk associated with the other parent is often too high for that child to shun the loyalty to the PAS parent.
Especially when the PAS parent is able to paint the other parent as uncaring and bad.. like taking your car away poor baby.
Will your SS one day wake up and realize his dad had his best interest at heart.. it can happen.. but I wouldn't bet the house on it.
Where I have seen it work exceptionally well...
is situations like you describe, where the parent alienating the other parent also provides an environment with far less responsibility, discipline, consequences then the other parent...
What kid would not want to
What kid would not want to run amok doing what they want when they want?
Sadly, when this failed feral free range parenting happens, the kid often suffers for their entire lives because of it.
Even when there is an example of success, structure and standards on one side of a Skid's blended family, the other side can impact the Skid for the long term.
My SS is an oustanding man of character and standing in his profession, life, and community. However, he is very withdrawn and extremely hard on himself. That may be in part to his mom and I being very present in raising him and holding him to behavioral standards and performance standards, though I believe that is in large part due to being terrified and disappointed in the lives of his SpermClan famil and about the possibility of going down the path that his BioDad, the SpermClan, and his three younger half sibs have followed.
Rarely
That's what I discovered years back when I started researching Parental Alienation, which was happening in our lives. While the PAS here was limited (and really more of the "hate" was developed in the kids towards me rather than their dad), the affects are here 20 years later. All of DHs kids are adutls. All have a very weird relationship with him and his local son (20 min from our home) doesn't even call his dad.
The saddest part of my research? When "kids" do come out of PAS, it's typically in late adulthood and many times, the PAS'd parent is dead, leaving no closure for the PAS'd kids. Just sad. As ESMOD said, can it happen? Sure but don't bet the house on it.
DH is the exception
BM and SF did everything they could to turn the SS's against DH. Everything. So many lies and the trash talking was unbelievable. She even turned DH's brother and wife to her side with her lies.
Still she was ok with SS's here every weekend since the sports schedule for both was heavy and expensive with travel. WE took SS25 to colleges, had the coaches at our houses for dinners and recruitments and WE paid the difference between scholarships and the balance due, BUT she convinced SS that DH would only be controlling and embarrass him so we were not allowed to take him to college and move him in. Only her and SF. It broke DH's heart.
But, alas, her actions and the fact that as the SS's got older, they started asking other people about the stuff that BM was saying about DH and came to full light that she was infact lying. I think it did a number on SS21 because he was a mama's boy. He went the therapy to work out a few things and finally made up his own mind.
The SS's are super close to DH, finally starting to show their appreciation and do not have any contact with BM and SF except for the few drunken texts and phone calls mostly from SF.
It wont work that way for everyone, but we can all hope that as they mature, they will find their way back.
My SS-31's SpermClan tried
My SS-31's SpermClan tried the same things with similar results. When SS was a young toddler SpermGrandHag engaged an attorney, forged the SpermIdiot's signature on the filing paperwork and went after custody of SS.
My then as yet unmet future DW had SS when she was 16. Spermidiot and SpermGrandHag thought they had hit the controllable baby mama jackpot. Spermidiot was 23 when SS was born. Nope. My then future DW was not one to wilt to toxic crap.
DW kicked the Spermidiot out before SS turned 1yo for mollesting yet another 16yo. DW went on to graduate from HS on time and with honors carrying SS on her hip. A few months later DW moved out of state with SS for University.
Crickets from the SpermClan. Until the small town grape vine told the Hag that DW was dating someone. That would be me.
That was when the fraudulent custody suit was filed. For 8mos they played that game. DW would fly to SpermLand for a court date only to have it postponed at the last minute due to the SpermClan game playing. They were trying to destroy DW financially. She took out supplemental school loans and got her own attorney.
Though they once again attempted to postpone we finaly did get to court less than a week after we married and just before SS's 2nd bday.
The Judge upheld full physical and legal custody for my DW, slightly raised CS (From $110/mo to $133/mo), and established long distance visitation for the SpermClan (5wks summer, 1wk winter, 1wk spring). They also had 10 days in the fall but never took it due to it having to be in SS's area of residence and he could not miss school. There were multiple periods of a year or more that they excercised zero visitation.
The SpermClan was pissed. But, tough shit.
Over the next 16+ years that we lived under the CO they would put on the full court PAS press when SS was in SpermLand for visitation. When SS would get home upset over what they told him we were supposedly doing, we sat him down, discuss it, and presented him with the facts. In an age appropriate manner. Eventually those reviewed facts included regular and full reviews of the CO, review of CS amounts, review of our household expenses, review of the joint income that his mom and I earned to show that , Spermidiot arrest records, Spermidiot divorce records, etc... SS could not infrequently be found in our home office going through the Custody/Visitation/Support drawers in our filing cabinets. He listened to every word of the court hearing recordings, ranting answering machine messages from SpermGrandHag, vitriolic recorded telephone conversations when SpermGrandHag would call to rail at my DW about some crap or another, reviewed the supplemental county rules on Cust/Vis/Support, reviewed the State regulations, etc...
SpermGrandHag hated that. He learned to recognize the results of his smell test when they would start their lies, PAS, and manipulations and call them on it. Asking them why they were lying.
Which just drove more vitriolic phone calls.
The final nail in the coffin for him was when he turned 18 and CS ended. He joined the USAF about 8mos after his 18th Bday. As soon as they found that out, they started calling him to try to guilt him into paying back the 16+ years of CS they paid for his support and to try to get him to do direct payroll deposits to them for the support of his three younger also out of wedlock Spermidiot spawned half sibs by 2 other baby mamas.
He is 31 and has zero contact with any of them in years.
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It can in some cases... DH
It can in some cases... DH STILL thinks that some how sd is going to "find out" all of BM's lies and come back to "our side". but what DH doesn't realize is that sd has been exposed to all the inconsistencies of BM's claims... but BM's lies work in sd's favor and therfore sd (who is carbon copy of BM's personality) will NEVER come back to our side.
I have literally pointed out all of the inconsistencies to sd that sd was part of, sd will magically "forget" the part that would make her mom a liar... but remember everything else.
For example: (insert I know what I did was wrong... no need to point this out)
One summer Sd kept coming with lice in her hair... DH and I would treat her hair, and pick out all the nits and lice. We would check her hair (as well as both dds hair who thankfully never caught it) every single night for the 2 weeks that we would have her. She's go to her moms for 2 weeks and come back INFESTED talking 9 or 10 giant ones and gazillion tiny ones. We'd treat again and check every single night picking everything we saw out of her head... but we still check every night for the 2 weeks, she'd be clean... then she'd go back to her mom's for 2 weeks and come back INFESTED (keep in mind we are STILL checking my daughters who thankfully NEVER caught it, we kept lice sheild shampoo all summer). At one point I think that the nix damaged sds hair so much that we could no longer get the lice comb through her hair... I could comb her hair out, and by the the time I get the lice comb to her hair, it'd be matted up again. I had been working on 4 hrs sleep all summer because we would religiously go through all the children's hair every night until well after midnight... but I do had to get up at 5am to go to work the next day... so sleep deprived, tired of lice picking I decided to ask sd if she would allow me to cut her hair to make getting the lice out easier... she told me as long as she could still put her hair under her armpit she'd be ok... and DH agreed... so I cut it... and she could still put it under her armpit... she was happy, we could get the lice out easier...
Her mom flipped out threatening to call cps and to take dh's rights away... SD doesn't remember BM being upset or threatening to take her away from DH... and MAGICALLY none of those texts appear in her mind history (there were SEVERAL texts and phone calls regarding this) and sd remembers the lice summer, and remembers wanting her hair to be under her armpit... but doesn't really remember anything else
OMG OUR DH ARE THE SAME! He
OMG OUR DH ARE THE SAME! He is so delusional and thinks SD13 will have an epiphany and come to some sort of realization about BM. The PAS started when she was 5 y/o or maybe. before. Years of damage during CHILDHOOD just can't be magically reversed. DH doesn't understand that SD13 won't just change her mind overnight. SD will complain about BM, but DH doesn't understand the loyalty bind she is in with BM. It is a bond that I would be absolutely shocked if it ever broke. BM and SDs personalities are also one in the same, so it's hard to be totally objective, when SD thinks/acts the exact same way.
I also have a lice delusional Sd story
SD17 powersulk, when she was around 9ish, I gave her an old birds nest I had found.
She got lice a week or so after.
We all got it, and treated it and husband picked through our hair. BM Toxic Trolls bf at the time tweedle Dum treated TT and her apartment.
Husband got yelled at and called many bad names because somehow it was MY fault because it all came from the old birds nest I had given SD.
Turns out, a letter had gone out from the school and been given to CHILD holding them responsible for given note to parents. There had been a big infestation of the kids at school.
SD17 Powersulk, I STILL catch her mentioning that she had "caught the lice from an old birds nest", and have to correct her.
Toxic Troll has brainwashed Powersulk into believing she isnt violent (after seeing her mother punch her father and sister...) and that her "poor mother" is just a victim of evrything.
TT and PS are idiots. Avian lice do not infest humans.
Time to beat them both with that big fact stick. Idiots are so entertaining. Particularly when you bare their idiot asses.
Since PS likes recounting her story about catching lice from a birds nest, apply the facts publically, exuberantly, and regularly when she tries to blame you and the birds for her crotch or scalp cricket infestation. Human scalp crickets and human crotch crickets are also two different species BTW.
Don't ask me how I know. Lets just say I started university at that magical time near the end of the sexual revolution and before the advent of AIDS. Aside from Herpes, a trip to the campus med center would take care of any .... thing. Fortunately I got out of University without any permanent tag alongs of any flavor.
When it comes to lice infestations, birds and humans have different species of lice that typically target them. Bird lice, also known as avian lice, are specific to birds and do not infest humans. On the other hand, humans have their own types of lice that infest different parts of the body.
www.faunaadvice.com/can-birds-get-lice-from-humans/
If PS caught the lice of winged rats, she needs to be in some lab huge study. Hopefully that includes a very long period in laboratory lock down to help facilitate her being long gone at 18.
The way it "backfires " is
The way it "backfires " is when the PAS skid attacks the the parent doing the PAS. Where the monster they created turns on them and then birth parent wants to open up communication and send the monster to live with the other parent. Sending a damaged skid away. You can only imaging the $hitshow that arrives when a rose colored glasses wearing parent get his hopes up thinking said PAS skid has woken up. More strife, more drama, and more stress for all involved.
In my case, yes and no. BM is
In my case, yes and no. BM is a narcissist and enmeshes herself with people. She and SD34 were sickeningly enmeshed. Since that was what SD was always used to, she ended up being the clingiest cling-on that ever clung to DH. I used to "joke" to DH that if someone took a box cutter and fileted DH and SD jumped inside of him it still wouldn't be close enough. SD's childhood was spent with her being obsessed with both of her parents thanks to BM. BM also PASed the SKs. I won't get into all of the examples or I'll end up writing a novel-length response, but BM's tactics included bold-faced lies about both DH and me. Even with the cold, hard facts staring the SKs right in their faces, they never believed us. DH ended up developing a lot of resentment towards the SKs due to them being impossibly sucked in by BM and DH recently confessed to me his resentment and how he lived on his tippy toes throughout the SKs' entire childhoods just waiting for the moment that they storm out never to be seen again due to BM's influence.
Years later when the SKs grew up, SS32 was quite distant with BM. He never got that maternal approval since she preferred SD34 and SD remained rammed right up BM's ass. SD even had BM in the delivery room right along with SD's partner when she gave birth. SGS is now three, but when he turned about 1, BM went off the charts screaming at SD. It didn't surprise me because if BM isn't the only one and center of a person's universe she blows families up just like she did when SD was born. Anyway, SD told us that BM would scream at SD and demand to be taken care of instead of SD's infant. It happened a few times with BM calling SD all kinds of names including that favourite one that starts with a c. The last screaming match was so bad and so cruel that SD decided that it wasn't healthy to have that in SGS's life so SD went no contact. She has remained no contact with BM for over two years and when BM recently reached out she blamed SD for hardening her heart and that she should soften her heart to reconnect with SD. BM did not mention at all her role in it or how she got her H to join in on the verbal abuse of SD. SD then confessed to DH and I all the crap BM has done to her and she will likely never have her in her life again. This is absolutely shocking given how SD couldn't breathe without BM being involved. The longer SD is no contact with BM the more she changes for the better. It's unreal how much SD has been growing with BM out of her life. SD has also connected a lot of dots and had quite a few epiphanies now that BM's influence isn't there.
In the meantime, BM is getting revenge on SD by replacing her with SDIL. BM has SDIL totally hoodwinked and now she agrees with BM that SD is this big fat meanie who is withholding SGS from his grandmother for no apparent reason. Typical narcissist on BM's part. SDIL grew up in a very loving family, so she doesn't understand that sometimes your own family members can be your worst enemies. DIL is completely fooled. BM is finally giving SS that maternal approval that he never got, so despite BM's outrageous behaviour, he is the new golden child and he is eating it right up. I get it because that maternal approval that you never got is like a drug. It's like SS was drowing and is finally getting air. That's how powerful that maternal approval is especially when the child, even grown up, never really got it. DH and I both know that BM has replaced SD to send her a message that she has lost favour and is no longer the favourite. SS now has that role. He is now rammed up BM's ass so much that it's sickinging. DH and I know that SS and SDIL's days are numbered because they're working on having a baby. SDIL's parents, especially mother, are very involved in their grandchildren's lives so when BM finds out that she's not the only grandmother or the favourite, she'll blow up that family too and do something outrageous to cause major conflict. DH and I pretty much expect that SS and SDIL will end up no contact after BM reacts to not being their or their baby's center of the universe and when they have the audacity to allow another grandmother to love on the baby.
I feel like you always hear
I feel like you always hear people say "Oh, SK will relaize it eventually." or "It will all work out in the end." etc. etc. That may be the case, but usually not until the SKs become adults, or later in life (if it ever happens).
BM has PASd SD13 since she was 5. Lies about who cheated, drug use, etc. BM definitely intentionally drove wedges between SD and DH and also myself.
8 years later BM acts surprised by the lack of relationships and "doesn't understand" why SD and I don't really talk. And why I don't help with pick ups/drop offs etc. Like, HELLO, this is what you wanted. You wanted SD to hate me and for us to have no relationship. But now that narrative doesn't suit BMs needs, so she plays dumb to SD. SD13 also acts shocked when I decline to give her rides, take her shopping, etc. I personally feel the teenage and young adult years are when kids start to "come into their own" anyways. DH will continue to blame BM for all of the PAS, but I feel SD is getting to the age when she can start forming her own opinions of people. He doesn't like to hear this of course.
Not in this case
Maybe after a few years where SS grows up a bit. Becomes a father himself. Hope the car is gone. SS is not driving it. The fun no rules parent is more fun. Unfortunately SS is being set up for a bad life. Jobs have rules , life has rules. hope for the best
A Skid epiphany regarding a
A Skid epiphany regarding a toxic PASing parent is so rare as to be nonexistent. Unless.... the quality side of the equation keeps the kid introduced to the facts in an age appropriate manner.
That provides at least some opportunity for the kid to learn to recognize the lies, manipulations, and PASing crap and to protect themselves from it as they are growing up.
Even when they reach adulthood they need the facts. The toxic PASing lying POS side of their gene pool rarely stops the crap. The Skidults will need the facts to protect themselves from the shallow and polluted end of their gene pool for their entire lives. Most likely anyway.
But if the lies benefit the
But if the lies benefit the skid... no matter how much you point it the lies... they will ALWAYS prefer to believe the lies
In that case, in addition to
In that case, in addition to rubbing the kid's nose in the stench of the lies they are swallowing, bare the kid's ass for swallowing the lies as the facts are regularly reviewed.
"Why would you choose to believe something that you know is a lie? Explain that to me. Just because the liar is your mother/father, they are still a liar and you diving in the pool of lies makes you just as bad as them. I expect better of you."
Or something along these lines.
Lather, rinse, repeat with periodic adjustments as things evolve and new facts unfold.
Sadly, the lies and toxicity rarely ever end. Though upon rare occassion the kid might gain clarity.
Trust me, I have tried, again
Trust me, I have tried, again and again and again. She'll just say, I don't think she's lying. I believe my mom is telling me the truth. She's shown me the texts"
And I'll tell her, "well she deleted texts then because don't you remember xyz happening *I'll insert a while story with vivid details*
"Yes remember xyz. But I don't remember my mom saying/doing *insert what I told her her mom said or did*"
And I'll finish off with "well, I'm sorry you don't remember, but that's exactly what happened... I gave you vivid descriptions of everything... and you remember EVERYTHING except what your mom did... and because your mom showed you partial/edited texts... then you believe your mom"
In the end... she believes her mom, because it reinforces that her father is a monster... it furthers sd's adgenda... SD doesn't have to come visit her father, because he's awful... she can throw complete tantrums and DH will give her what ever she wants because he's DESPERATE for her to come visit.
Just be careful. Adding kids
Just be careful. Adding kids to a tenuous blended family nightmare is not fare to the new kid, any of the other kids, or to yourself.
My SIL is one of those who deluded herself into thinking that it is no more expensive to have two than it is to only have one. She and her DH learned that lesson very painfully. Their only kids are joint.
They are constantly on the verge of having their home foreclosed, having cars repossessed, always begging for charitable forgiveness of their hospital bills (both of their kids are charity babies), and whining about how much they owe in SIL's school loans that have gone unpaid for more than a decade and are now up to more than $100K due to penalties and interest.
She could have finished her university degree with zero costs to her. We offered for her to live with us, for my DW to take guardianship of her, and for us to pay for her school. She accepted. My ILs had signed an early HS graduation release for SIL when she was 17. We begged them not to and for them to keep SIL in HS for her actual Sr year. The State reduced the requirements for graduation and SIL was in the cusp class that could either graduate at the end of their Jr. year or return for their Sr. year.
SIL moved to our State, lived with us, we bought a car for her use, DW worked with her alma matter to get SIL in and we rode her hard and put her up wet regarding school attendance, doing her assignments to a University standard, etc, etc, etc.... She had decent grades. When she finished the final semester of her University Freshman year she had turned 18. She declared us mean, and ran back to SpermLand to get knocked up by her mugger looking then BF. Because of the standards we held her to she got into a local University in SpermLand and jumped into the school loan system with both feet.
They have never paid a dime on their loans. SIL went every semester they would let her register for classes and get loans for. Eventually they informed her she was not eligible for the School of Education and would not be allowed to register for Ed classes. So she shifted to the General Studies program. Eventually they informed her she had to pay cash and no more loans or grants could be applied for. Not long after that, they told her she could not longer register for classes. Apparently they did not actually kick her out of the University, but... she can't attend or borrow any more money.
She is in for over $100K. Every year at tax time they panic about losing their return. Ummmm. Pay your taxes as you earn and you will not have any return for the Govt to keep. And... PAY YOUR LOANS!!! But, the whole IL clan cringes when SIL starts her crying when DW and I are present because we....know and if we know and she is trying the "poor me" crap with the whole clan when we are present, everyone knows. Which once again... makes us mean.
They bought a home primarily using school loan money as a downpayment, bought cars using school loans as a downpayment, fed themselves, and had both of their kids OOWL so they could beg forgiveness of their hospital bills. As soon as the charitable award committee notified them that they would not have to pay their baby delivery bills, they got papers.
Not my favorite people by any means though SIL's DH is a decent guy. I just can't get past that he has to know what his DW is and has done.
I call it brainwashing
They brainwash the kids to think and believe what they want them too. Then send them out into the world.