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OT - Amateur Investing

Lillywy00's picture

So I am way behind in retirement investing (had many years where I worked part time bc I wanted to be available as a parent but I'm now seeing the downside of my decision) so I'm having to attack it at all angles and do more than the match at employer s offices. 
 

Im kind of perturbed they won't give my my 6%'match till im

"vested" which I think is like 3 mf ing long years 

#employerscam but whatever at least I keep what I put in. 
 

So far I'm paper trading to test the waters before I dive in with real money. I decided to use a combination of long term stock + swing/day trading. 
 

Today my paper play was up 121% but I'm noticing I probably need to use some voluntary time off for couple hours in the morning if I want to make these morning trades (until I figure out how to set the stop loss) otherwise im going to be pissed if I miss an exit or entry because I'm tied up at the day job. 
 

Any stock market investors in here and what strategies do you prefer?
 

 

Comments

JRI's picture

I don't know about you but I'm too lazy and/or dense to deal with this stuff.  Get a financial advisor, they will help you make sane choices and will also orient you for sensible future planning.  Changes have to be made over time and I'm usually too chicken to do it, like selling something which has risen when my instinct is to hold on for more gain.  Good luck.

SeeYouNever's picture

Day trading gets taxed as capital gains much higher than long term investments(over a year). So be aware that about a 3rd of what you make day trading will go to Uncle Sam.

Buying and holding long term is a much better strategy for retirement and making real wealth. I would focus on putting money into your account on a regular basis and buying dips (like this week right before quarterly earnings is a good "dip" time to buy). Then just hold on to stock for several years or until you're over it and want to move to something else.

Pick companies with good business plans and strong potential, solid companies that pay dividends are a good choice. Do your research Motley Fool is a good source of info.

DO NOT get into options. DO NOT buy on margin. Everyone I know who has done that has eventually screwed up. It's gambling. Day trading and investing are very different beasts. If it was easy to get rich quick we would all be rich by now.

Lillywy00's picture

Definitely NOT using margin ... I may be crazy and make risky decisions but not that crazy and risky. Maybe if I was a pro hedge fund manager but not right now I wouldn't dare 

Lillywy00's picture

Yes I have motley fool subscription. 
 

One of my first long-term plays was Starbucks competitor which went bust after I bought it. I held it as they recommended and it recovered. 
 

Then I took another recommendation from them as a LT investment and that one doubled after a couple months (wish I had invested more) 

thinkthrice's picture

It has been proposed to increase Capital  Gains Tax to 41%  which will kill investments.  I was raised in a cult that didn't officially believe in saving for retirement which I didn't formally leave until age 42.   I'm glad at age 28-37 I enrolled in the state pension although I had to earn it all back between public sector jobs (long story).  I have rentals to help but the way legislature is going (very anti private property rights) it will prove to be a challenge.

3 to 5 yrs is actually very average to be vested.

Chef really has nothing other than SS to fall back on (and me) since he was completely impoverished for 2 decades due to massive non arrears voluntarily overpaying CS.

ESMOD's picture

Just remember.. there is usually no easy route.. you are behind.  it is what it is. 

You are also seeing that not keeping stable employment means you don't always get to keep the benefit of the company match types of benefits.  Obviously they do that in part to have a slight amount of leverage to retain workers.  

But, I believe you are also fairly young and have decades I'm guessing to catch up.  And, to be honest, i get a vibe that you think that day trading is a viable option to do it.. that it is some path to wealth.  But, you don't seem to have much real background in it.. and the vast majority of people that try it end up losing money over time.. the people that are successful are likely very dedicated, knowlegable.. and in many cases.. just lucky they struck while the iron was hot.. in the "blind squirrel gets a nut every now and again".  

Have you taken any courses in financial investment.. the tools and have you scoured the online chat boards to see how other people manage this?

As most people are going to tell you.. get rich quick is rarely sustainable or long term successful.  You are likely to be much more at risk just to the overal volatility of the stock market.  Long term steady investment in solid stocks and other investment funds is probably one of the best ways to invest.. you don't realize gains in the short term.. as seeyounever pointed out.

Let's say you invest 1K.. you "earn 300"  well 100 of that will go to taxes..(offset by losses sure to an extent).. but also there will be transaction fees on the buy and sell side.. and maybe other related investment account fees.... you invest long term.. the ultimate tax liability may not need to be paid until a time when you might be in retirement and in a lower tax bracket.

I think you have said it's your dream to support yourself this way.. but you really need to do a lot of hard work and learning to understand how truly risky this is for the average person.

it's all good.. while it's good.. but the market tanks.. what do you live off of?  maybe you have ample savings.. but if you are concerned about your retirement.. you probably don't have the 6 months to a year of living expenses that you should if you are going to go into a high risk field like this.

Lillywy00's picture

the people that are successful are likely very dedicated, knowlegable.. and in many cases.. just lucky they struck while the iron was hot.. in the "blind squirrel gets a nut every now and again".  

Have you taken any courses in financial investment.. the tools and have you scoured the online chat boards to see how other people manage this?
 

for sure that makes sense and yes I do have some tools/courses. 
 

Im also paper trading right now while I get my bearings 

 

Mominit's picture

My husband invests. He spends at least 20 hours a week on it. An hour before the market opens to get a feel for the politics, international events, holidays and other things that will impact the market. The first hour of market being open, watching the numbers, watching Bloomberg in the Morning. An hour after that in his spreadsheet, and on the net looking up earnings calls, company announcements, adjusting trades. Several spot checks throughout the day.

if he has a buy or sell to make, it's three minute checks every hour at a minimum, until it gets close to the price he wants, then he's at his desk. An hour at the end of day to review and plan for tomorrow. He is very successful. This is his retirement "hobby". But it is a huge job. Even on vacation he sets everything up to ride along without his attention, but inevitably there is one or two things that demand an hour or so in the morning.

i think starting with paper trades is a great idea. Make sure your not investing based on emotion. Understand how to determine if a company is secure, hitting their targets, or just riding a wave of cult fandom. And while you're doing a job you hate, reframe that in your mind that they are giving you the seed money you need to invest (and live day to day), until you have trades and dividends that will comfortably support your dreams.

edited to add....I read this to my husband to see if I had exaggerated. He clarified that he is a long term investor with a limited but slightly broad portfolio (between 4-9 companies). He says if he was to try to be a serious day trader he would need twice as much time.

Lillywy00's picture

And while you're doing a job you hate, reframe that in your mind that they are giving you the seed money you need to invest (and live day to day), until you have trades and dividends that will comfortably support your dreams.
 

YESSS ... great way to reframe it. 

Rags's picture

Set the risk tolerance, trade at that point. Up or down. Hold nothing at the end of the trading day.  The premise of day trading.

I did it for a couple of years in the 90s and decided that I was more of a dollar cost averaging guy.

I applaud your DH for his diligence and his success.

Rags's picture

I am a dollar cost averaging guy.  Put the same amount in to a diverse investement portfolio (mutual funds work well for this) and invest consistently month in and month our regardless of what the market is doing.  When the market is down your investment picks up more shares than when it is high.   This lowers your average price per share.

This establishes that at a future point your portfolio will nearly invariably be worth more than your verage shares purchase price measured at any given time in  your portfolio history.  I design my portfolio to outperfom the S&P 500. I have been successful in accomplishing that over the past 30 years.

I advise that you work with a fiduciary investment firm and engage an investment advisor. I recently changed from self directed to a fiduciary advisor directed structure in my investment accounts.  My advisor is outperforming my history in self directing.  No regrets on not doing it earlier, however, I would likely be significantly better if I had. Hind site after all is 20:20.

I also advise that you seek a move to a higher quality employer with day one matching in your 401K (or equivelent).  The overwhelming majority of my/our investements originated as 401Ks.  As I have moved to companies with a VC component to the pay package, I have added some notable resources outside of a 401K/IRA.

I accepted the offer for the role I recently took though the company has no 401K.  I took a 40+% salary cut but the pre IPO status of the company made the large grant of stock appealing giving the opportunity a notable potential upside.

Diversification is IMHO the key to minimizing risk and driving notable returns.  Keeping in mind that there is always risk if you are in the securities markets.

Good luck.

Lillywy00's picture

I am a dollar cost averaging guy
 

I learned this trading crypto (which I'm not a fan of). I like the concept and definitely wise to pickup more on the dips. 
 

 I design my portfolio to outperfom the S&P 500. I have been successful in accomplishing that over the past 30 years.

NIIICCEE!!!!

 

advise that you work with a fiduciary investment firm and engage an investment advisor. I recently changed from self directed to a fiduciary advisor directed structure in my investment accounts.  My advisor is outperforming my history in self directing.  No regrets on not doing it earlier, however, I would likely be significantly better if I had. Hind site after all is 20:20.

Interesting and I'll look into this

 

I also advise that you seek a move to a higher quality employer with day one matching in your 401K (or equivelent). 

Definitely. Once I realized not all companies play the wating game with their matching contribution I knew what I had to do. 

Rumplestiltskin's picture

I tried trading single stocks and trying to beat the market, but with the small amounts i was working with, transaction costs and tax made it not worth it. If someone has large amounts of money and makes money on trades, that might be more worthwhile.

I, too, am behind on saving for retirement. I am making up for it by maximizing my company's matching, contributing to a Roth IRA, and participating in my company's Employee Stock Purchase Plan. They give employees a 10% discount on stock purchasing twice per year, so it's a guaranteed 10% gain. I also have a personal trading account (small), and i mostly put money into a total index ETF and a few other ETFs. It's been the biggest profit of everything i have.

ETA i also have some ibonds and am considering doing something like CDs for "safe" investments, as opposed to having my emergency fund sit in savings. 

Lillywy00's picture

Agreed on the cds. A bit better than regular savings if the interest rate is higher. 
 

EFTs are a good idea I've been thinking of doing those as a safe-ish investment for my bio

 

And on capital gains tax I'm going to research more about this  bc my understanding is if you re-invest the earnings vs spend the earnings that may be a better option. 
 

 

ESMOD's picture

if you are in the us.. you don't get a pass on taxes if you reinvest your earnings.  now you aren't paying taxes on the full proceeds.. just the gain.. but you can't avoid the tax liability unless you  harvest losses (lose money on other stuff0.. to offset the gains.  it's worth doing sometimes if you are in a position with a total dog.. and you know it will "never" improve.

at least this is in the US.. you may be dealing with a diff tax code.