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OT Sociopathic Employers….

Lillywy00's picture

It's taking everything I have not to ditch these corporate sl@vedrivers today and beyond.....

I really want/need some time off but the thing that irks tf out of me is how the average employees are looked down upon for taking time off. Like who tf wants to be working all the mf ing time?!? If these sociopathic employers hired properly and made work environments more tolerable then they wouldn't have to stress people out about their absences causing "short staffing". 

I hate the system where we have to talk to the manager directly above about time off. 
 

Why can't a time off request be submitted in a central location which auto notifies the managers and workforce then workforce approves or denies. 
 

I don't like the concept of the direct manager being the go-to for time off requests. So their biases can kick in and they can start judging and rejecting time off requests before they even make it to workforce for review. 

Comments

classyNJ's picture

Wow Lilly that is really old school.  I havent asked a manager for PTO for years.  

Yes, correct, we have a central location where we enter PTO wanted and it is either approved or disapproved all thru email.  My department has 5 people and 2 of us have over 5 weeks of PTO available.  Since we can only carry over 40 hours, we all pretty much use them.  PTO is seperate from the 86 hours of sick time we have and we still are rarely short staffed with the execption of Christmas time. 

You can only work so much before burning out.

ESMOD's picture

Unfortunately, most companies run a bit lean in staffing because if you hire extra people to backfill during time off requests.. then they often find they are paying people to "do nothing"... 

If you are in a professional position.. usually those jobs are planned to take roughly 40/hours a week but some companies or sections within companies can be more inclined to have a culture of Overtime expectations.

For example, if you work in accounting/tax/finance/legal.. especially.. the culture is to work overtime to show your value to the employer.  Your bosses and coworkers will judge you if you do not appear to be carrying your own weight.

There also can be cyclical busy times when there is pretty much no chance of being able to take off.. For example.. I have to do some budget reporting.. so I "never" am able to take time off during the first 3-7 work days of the month.  People in the tax field.. have reporting deadlines and a rush of business from Feb through April.. and the expectation that they NOT take time off during those times is pretty set.

Regarding time off though.. sure.. if you have PTO/vacation, you should be able to have a reasonable expectation to take time off when you need it.. for personal business.. to take vacations.. visit family etc..  

But.. as mentioned previously.. sometimes your work load will mean taking time off in April as a CPA is not going to be approved or possible.    Or there already may be people who have had their requests approved previously and there won't be enough coverage to allow for another person to take off during that time..   The thing is that direct managers are the ones that should be most aware if there are large projects in process that might mean taking time off isn't workable during a particular time frame.  They are the ones that need to be approving it because they know the relative workload of the group.

I don't know if you are in an industry that doesn't match well with you.. or whether it is just this company "in particular" that seems to make taking time off more complicated than it needs to be..  

The bottom line is that employers pay us to perform a job.  It's up to us to decide whether the pay they are providing is worth the amount of work we are being asked to perform.  Personally, I'm older and have worked in finance and accounting.. so have worked within areas where taking time off is not necessarily a great thing.. if you appear to always need or want time off.. you are sometimes seen as uncommitted.. or not a team player since other people have to pick up your slack when you aren't there.  That being said.. I am no longer in that part of the company.. and I actually have a LOT of time off.. 5 weeks a year.. and struggle to take it all off.. because we have a small group and I don't want to burden my coworkers with my job.. sometimes that means that I work long hours to get my work ahead so that I can take time off.. many days I have been working from 7 in the morning to midnight.. because I am taking a few days off.. and I don't want my coworkers to have to do my job.  but for me.. I'm fine with that tradeoff... 

I am basically able to "inform" my direct manager that I am taking my vacation.. he knows I'm professional and will have my job responsibilities covered.. and that if I will miss somethign when I am out.. I have ensured that I got someone else to cover that for me.. (like processing an invoice that comes in while I"m out for example).    I also don't ever plan vacations during my "busy" time of the month or year... and when my husband and I were both hospitalized during that busy time (two separate visits).. I actually worked from a hospital bed one month close.. and from my husband's bedside the next month.  Did they ask me to do that? no.. it was just easier for me to do the work that only I really know how to do vs trying to remotely train someone.. and it was not hours and hours of work.. but it's like taking a work call on my day off or vacation.. the fact that I DO that means my manager can trust that when I ask for time off/inform him when I will be out.. that he has no concern that the work will go undone.

I'm not sure if your job/company is as professional as ours is.. I hope you are looking for other options... perhaps with an employer that might have a more reasonable eye to their employees having work life balance.

Because it is a balance.. I work very hard for my employer.. spend many of my own hours working for no extra pay.. but I also am afforded autonomy when I want to take off because they know I will get the job done.

 

 

Yesterdays's picture

This can all really suck. I once had a boss who seemed to have an axe to grind with me, as well as some others in the office. I'm not sure why too.. I was always pleasant with her. One time I emailed her a vacation request asking if the dates were available. She simply said no. I then sent another group of date options and she replied no. So I then asked her if she could send ME some dates that's were open and she said she's not allowed to do that. Then she just went on.. Declining my dates until finally she found some

Then I moved on to be promoted and my new boss was completely awesome and accommodating with dates (and friendliness)

At vacation approval time each year also they only allowed 2 people off per date and if it overlapped we had to work it out ourself with the other people... Determining "who needed it most"  basically and then the other person would be mad if they didn't get it

ESMOD's picture

When I was younger.. I worked for some places that tended to be more accomodating to people with families.. like single me didn't have kids so.. yeah.. my requests were not as "important".  I was always the one who would work the holidays.. etc.. because they figured I had nothing else to do..

I also was literally informed one year that I got a smaller raise so they could give more to the mail room guy that just had a child.. you know.. he had a family to support.. I was like.. damn.. I have bills too.

Harry's picture

I would get annual vacation time.  And I would used to my most advanced,  starting vacation on Wednesday. Because air flight prices are better on Wednesday.  Return on Thursday to work.  Turning three day weekend into a 4 or 5 day trip.  It's was my time. I earned it , I used it 

ESMOD's picture

Personally, I think that there is a balance that can be struck with taking out time.  

I take most of mine.. but do carry over a couple of weeks every year (they used to pay us out for up to two weeks.. but alas that is a bygone benefit).  I also work a compressed schedule so technically also have ever other friday off.. that virtually doubles the number of days I'm getting.. 

I'm also fortunate in that my role is as a senior level individual contributor.. we have areas of expertise and certain obligations to do certain work.. like my monthly variance reporting.. because I'm at a fairly senior level, I'm treated as a professional that can manage my workload.  My manager does not get involved with managing my workload.. when we have new work to do.. we decide as a group how to allocate it between us.. but again.. all experienced senior people with high work ethic.

But.. yes.. we take vacation.  I ended taking off almost a month at the end of the year/beginning of this year.  I'm taking another week off next month.  I have taken several one off days.. or half days to take care of personal business.. or to take long weekend getaways.. .  

But, I do understand that different organizations work differently.. if you are in a call center, for example.. not everyone can be off at the same time.. if you work in accounting.. you really can't take time off the first week of the month without it being a very very important emergency type reason.

I'm also late in my career where I have paid a ton of dues.. put in the work to earn the position that I am in today where I have proven to be trusted and trustworthy.. when you have a much younger team of less experienced people doing different kinds of work.there may not be the flexibility to be able to let everyone have that ability to self direct.. 

I will say.. time off is important.. for our work life balance.. for mental health.. because we work to earn the right to take it.  But..we also have to understand the employers are hiring us to do a job.. not to do us a favor.. which means that they want our work product.. they provide benefits to attract employees.  Yes.. you should be able to take time.... but understanding the relative workload at any given time.. and that it doesn't necessarily mean we can always take it exactly when we want.. is important too... because if it were not for the job.. you wouldn't have the possibility of the paid time off. 

Lillywy00's picture

Good points. 
 

Our busy season is during the winter but apparently my new role (unbeknownst to me) was busy during first quarter - partially bc that's typical for this role but also the company inefficiencies made it even more busy. 
 

I try not to take too much time off unnecessarily especially during busy timeframes ... but if I need some extra time off I think the process should be streamlined/automated requests 

Also another thing to keep in mind (I discovered after the employers "accidentally" laid me off) is some states do NOT mandate employers pay out PTO if you leave (some companies don't let it roll over each new year if you stay) so stacking pto is never imo a good idea unless your state mandates payouts and your company allows it to rollover each new year. 

Rags's picture

I have never asked. I inform.  First verbally, then I put it on my time sheet to make sure that I am compliant to avoid time fraud.

Never have I had anyone ever say a word about me taking vacation. Part of what I do is put it on my calendar as far ahead as I can so that it is documented, then I tell my boss what days I will be gone, then I inform my #2 so that my coverage is in place, then I put the request in the PTO system, if there is one.

If they do not approve, that is on them.  Since it is nearly always after the fact when they finally do approve.  More often than not, they never approve, nor do they ever say a thing about it.

 

Lillywy00's picture

I have never asked. I inform
 

Exactly. My subservient threshold is maxed out the moment I step foot in the employers offices. 
 

Just giving the courtesy heads up. 

ESMOD's picture

I will say that to an extent.. we earn the right to be at the point of having the respect of our management to be able to "inform".

I'm senior level, in the same group since 2005.. they know me.. my work ethic, my work product and the fact that I would not ask for time off unless I knew that no work goals would suffer.

If you are junior.. or newer... you haven't built that level of rapport/respect with your management.. and especially in lower ranking job tiers.. they may exert more control over the time off process.. so that they ensure that they have the people to do the work. 

If someone is submitting time off requests that are ignored or declined repeatedly.. then they may need to escalate and go to HR to resolve the issue.