DH/SF undermining my authority over biological daughter which is making for a miserable household
This is long, but the situation is getting crazier by the day.
My DH who is also stepfather to my biological daughter, bought her a car for her 16th birthday primarily so she can drive herself to and from school.
BD’s newfound freedom in driving has extended to going over her friends’ and boyfriend’s houses, and she has repeatedly broke curfews since she started driving. Each time she’s broken curfew, I’ve been the one laying down consequences of taking away the car from a few days up to a week per occurrence.
I told my daughter if she breaks curfew again – especially while at her boyfriend’s house, I’m going to substantially increase the time she has no car. The other night she broke curfew again and came home 1.5 hours late, which ended up being after midnight, which is also a violation of her restricted driver’s license – so she actually broke the law by driving after midnight!
She lied by saying she was over her best friend’s house, but when I had her show me her phone, her texts revealed she was with her boyfriend. I took away her car and her phone for 30 DAYS as punishment for breaking the law driving after midnight, staying out past curfew repeatedly, and lying to me about not being with her boyfriend past curfew that night.
She flipped out on me and complained to my DH that I am being unreasonable. He seemed sympathetic in hearing her out which just planted more seeds of protest.
The next day while she was still complaining about her 30 day punishment, my DH tells us how when he was a kid and he got grounded, his bible-belt father would offer him an option to get spanked instead of staying grounded. He said it was similar in his school where students could choose paddling instead of detention or in-school suspension.
He intended his anecdotal story as a way to break the tension brewing over this situation – not as an option for my daughter.
But my daughter took DH’s story to represent a fast way to get her phone and car back because she later brought up her grounding again, and argued she should also be allowed to choose a spanking instead of losing her phone and car!
Despite me repeatedly explaining that I determine what her punishment is – not DH, she persuaded DH into agreeing with her. His point was that previous groundings taking away her car haven't accomplished a change in her behavior, but maybe she will respond to spanking considering she's requesting the option. He thinks taking away her phone and car for 30 days is going to provide too much time for her to harbor resentment towards me, whereas a spanking is over within minutes, and we can all move on.
I don't believe in spanking, and my daughter was never spanked before. My husband had a different upbringing under different circumstances. Why can't he accept that?
Even if you used spanking as
Even if you used spanking as a punishment, I think 16 is too old to spank.
I don’t think kids should be
I don’t think kids should be allowed to choose their punishments. Obviously a quick swat on the behind is easier to deal with than having to lose your phone and other privileges (for a teenager).
Is your SD the kind of kid that might want to turn this around and report your husband to CPS if he spanks her?
This sounds ten times of
This sounds ten times of crazy to me! For one the girl has clearly infringed the laws/rules which is not unusual for teenagers but being allowed to get away with it is also not an option- so I think you were right to offer her the punishment. I am struggling, though, with this response from DH. Kids picking their punishment?? I once witnessed a crazy woman asking a kid where on his body he wanted smacking after he'd done something she saw as wrong. How crazy was that? Does a judge ever give a criminal a choice of sentence? Which prison would you like to go to,and which cell would you like, and how long would you like stay? Clearly not!
The whole point of punishment is clearly that- it should be unpleasant and a kid would always choose the 'easiest' punishment surely? I find this whole thing very strange- especially as she is 16 years old, mature enough to drive a car but still needing to be smacked? Please, don't let DH anywhere near your daughter's backside- no matter what she says.
Well I'm glad we only have
Well I'm glad we only have one sort of judge in Fairyland-judges in the home and in school seem to be missing their vocation and a whole bigger pay packet!
Please DON'T tell us your
Please DON'T tell us your husband has volunteered to do the spanking. :sick:
UN ring the car bell. DH had
UN ring the car bell.
DH had zero authority to buy you daughter a car. YOU allowed it to happen.
CANCEL her car insurance and take the keys.
DONE
It is that easy.
All my kids ride or rode the bus. THEY are perfectly fine, outstanding citizens.
16 us too old for a spanking.
16 us too old for a spanking. My last one was when I was ~14 as is the case with my younger brother.
It is time to have a closed door discussion with your DH to confirm that as your equity life partner he is an equity parent to your daughter. However, my opinion is that when there is a disagreement in applied consequences between two parents... the most stringent consequence takes precedence.
Since she has repeatedly violated the terms of use for the car and her license... sell the car and shred her license. She can bum rides from her friends, ride her bike, walk or take the bus until she turns 18 when the consequences for her decisions can be applied by law enforcement.
If DH does not agree with your parenting and punishments he needs to have your back until the two of you can discuss it in private.
IMHO of course.
Good luck.
^^^^^ SD was doing the same
^^^^^
SD was doing the same thing when she was driving age. One of the few times DH actually tried to discipline her was by taking the car away.
I dropped her off at school, he picked her up. We also met with the teachers with instructions to call us if she didn't show up for class. her favorite places to fool around was in the parking a lot and the stairwells. So, if she wasn't in class, they called, made sure she wasn't absent for a legitimate reason, then would send security to find her.
It worked for a while but as soon as she got her car back, then things went south all over again.
If she can drive legally, she
If she can drive legally, she must be at least 16. How is spanking an appropriate way of discipline at that age?
Nope. the 30 days sound far more appropos.
this is an easy one.... when
this is an easy one.... when she runs to SF and he tries and change it, laugh and say...
I'm your mother and my word is final, now every time you come and complain about being grounded will add a day to your punishment... and keep to it.
If DH plays the card of she will resent your more and more, then look him int he eye and say, I'm her parent, she's a minor, if she does not like my rules tough she can move out age 18 and never come back. I'm not a disney mamma....
This episode is just the most
This episode is just the most recent of many that makes me resentful my daughter and her SF align with each other against me. I seem to always be the enemy, and DH is the good guy when setting rules for my daughter.
I read forum feedback last night, and I asked my husband if he had any concerns that spanking her at her age would be creepy/sexual. He thinks there’s nothing sexual about spanking, and said if I am worried about that, I should do the spanking. He feels we should give her the option regardless of who does the spanking.
He keeps saying he wants things to settle down between me and my daughter, and he thinks 30 days is too long to ground her. – Translation: I’m the bad guy.
I asked him if he’s worried that she might report him to CPS after a spanking. He dismissed the idea, saying he thinks the opposite – she’d be thankful to get her grounding lifted. In all honesty, I know my daughter and have to agree. She would probably hold DH even higher on a pedestal for getting her out of her grounding.
Neither DH nor my daughter talked much when around me today. I’m getting the silent treatment.
Point well taken. And after
Point well taken. And after really giving this some thought, I just don’t think my husband has any improper motivation towards my daughter. He’s never suggested spanking in all the years we’ve been married, and even in this situation he wasn’t suggesting it when he recounted his childhood experience.
I would characterize his attitude as being increasingly open to the option, even if I do the spanking, since my daughter took the example from his childhood as a preferable alternative to being grounded. He feels he would be a hypocrite to deny her the same disciplinary option that he thinks served him well when growing up.
What DH, as well as my BD, don’t seem to understand is that I should have the final say, and they should respect that. I tell my husband this, and he makes me feel like I’m undercutting his role as her stepfather.
I'm sorry for the stressful
I'm sorry for the stressful situation. I once accidently said something to my SO's son that he then used against her and it definitely caused some stress. My intentions were good and I couldn't have imagined when I was trying to give him this positive pep talk and sound advice that he would find some way to use it to manipulate his Mom and play us against each other.
Your situation though is a little different. The only advice I can give is that you have a very serious conversation with your husband about this. Spanking a young adult is not just pointless, it's ludicrous. For that matter I don't even believe it to be useful on young kids. The pain from a whooping is forgotten as soon as the ache subsides but kid's and young adults alike are going to remember how miserable it made them to go for an extended period of time without the thing/things that mean the most to them. That is far more effective. Above all of that, though, you two need to establish what the boundaries are in your co-parenting situation.
I would also have a separate conversation with your daughter about who has the authority to discipline her and who doesn't and tell her that if she tries to play you and husband against each other again that you will DOUBLE her punishment.
I appreciate your advice, and
I appreciate your advice, and I also question the effectiveness of spanking at any age.
I would love to feel assuredly confident in tacking on extra days to her grounding, but in all honesty, both DH’s and my daughter’s resistance to her current grounding is already making our lives hell. If I threaten to double her punishment for playing DH against me, I think she would hate me outright for far long after her grounding was finished; and he would think I’m unfairly blaming her for my disagreement with him.
I was happy to at least give
I was happy to at least give you my perspective
I don't know if you're still checking in on this topic but I'll respond anyhow. Perhaps you're right about her hating you for a very long time but in the long run won't you be the one she respects? Isn't she more likely to take you seriously? The teenage years of child-rearing are certainly hard enough WITHOUT the addition of a step-parent who wants so badly to be liked that he will undermine you to gain acceptance. Somehow you're going to have to get through to him that you two are supposed to be a united front if he is to be allowed any kind of say so in dealing with discipline...although frankly it should really be up to you.
You would have to something severe (being a bad or uncaring parent) for her to withdraw her love for you permanently. This is something my own SO doesn't seem to understand. She is and has been afraid of her kids hating her and as a result they have no respect for her. I know they love her but the lack of respect looks and feels an awful lot like hatred to her and even sometimes to me, although I do see it for what it really is. Don't let fear dictate what you do and don't let your feelings be manipulated.
As an afterthought, I want to say that what is going on right now isn't supposed to be easy for you either. It's not supposed to go smoothly to punish your teenager or you're doing something wrong. You said things are hell around the house for all of you and that is part of being a parent too. Whether consciously or subconsciously, she is trying to make you miserable for making her miserable and possibly so you will cave in. Do that and she will see it as her victory rather than her punishment.
If your teenager doesn't hate
If your teenager doesn't hate you at some point, you're probably not parenting them.
Deep down I fear she will
Deep down I fear she will hate me over time, and I don’t have it in me to deliver ultimatums: “if you don’t like my rules, you can leave when you’re 18” type of threats. I want to foster a more harmonious relationship with her, especially as she’s maturing toward adulthood. But I also want her to understand that when she screws up, there are consequences.
My parents argued a lot when I was a kid, and that made me somewhat averse to conflict – especially conflict and raw feelings that continue for days or weeks at a time.
What’s becoming clear is that grounding her for longer and longer periods each time she breaks curfew isn’t working to change her behavior. And I feel just as miserable as she feels during the time she’s grounded.
I’ve talked with my husband
I’ve talked with my husband daily about this for the past week, and he’s made me question myself regarding the length of my daughter's grounding. A few others here also say 30 days is like an eternity to a teenager. I can see that.
DH suggested I can still maintain a tough and serious approach to her punishment, while also coming across as a reasonable mother, if I offer to compromise by cutting her grounding in half from 30 days to 15 - only if she still wants to choose a spanking. Her decision.
I’m considering it. Two weeks is still a long time, and maybe she will act more responsibly in the future if I let her take some ownership of the consequences.
Personally, I think that's
Personally, I think that's crap. Spanking her is stupid and it truly opens the door to a report to CPS. You may believe your daughter won't call but if you piss her off enough, she just might.
Once you set a punishment, I think you should stand by it and he should stand by you. If he has an issue with it, he needs to take it up with you in private, not in front of her. You shouldn't be compromising to make your daughter and DH happy and short of beating her, he shouldn't be openly questioning your discipline. I honestly don't see how this is letting her take ownership of her actions.
One thing I really wanted to try when SD was doing this and DH wouldn't let me-I wanted to take some time off of work and go to school with her, go with her to classes, lunch, the bathroom, everywhere. I was going to be her personal shadow all day long to show her we weren't going to tolerate her cutting classes and running the country. DH thought it'd be too embarrassing for her if I did that which was exactly the point. I still wonder if that would've worked. It certainly would've been creative.
I was around your daughter's
I was around your daughter's age when I was a rebellious demon, and grounding didn't really work for me. It was worth it to me to break curfew, sneak out, whatever, knowing that the consequences would be another grounding. figuring out how to undermine the grounding was part of the fun. One time I was grounded for 30 days. It was way harder on my parents than it was on me. I don't know how I survived my teenage years. More correctly, I don't know how my parents survived.
And she is way too old for a spanking. I agree with the others that it's weird and creepy. So what if it was an option for your DH?
If you want to give your daughter options for her punishment, come up with other things more appropriate to her age. Scrub the floors (hands and knees kind of scrub)/shampoo carpets/baseboards. Clean bathrooms every week for some extended time period. Clean out the basement/garage/attic/closets. Weed the garden/trim bushes/mow and edge the lawn. Find her "currency." It might take some creative thinking.
There are people who
There are people who expressed spanking is creepy, or think it’s not age appropriate. I respect their point of view, and continue to vacillate back and forth in how I feel about it. Do I think spanking is creepy? I don’t know – overall probably not after learning more about it. My daughter apparently doesn’t. And my DH obviously doesn’t.
As far as it arguably not being age appropriate, my husband said there are still high schools in my state that permit paddling with parental consent. He doesn’t see any difference in a parent who consents for their teenage child to be paddled at school vs. a parent permitting their teen child to choose spanking at home.
It’s hard for me to argue with his reasoning when I personally have no experience with spanking - either as a child or as a parent.
My daughter has roughly three weeks remaining on her grounding unless I decide other options, even if those options include some of what's been suggested here – scrubbing floors, cleaning in general, or yard work.
After all the negativity in my house this week, I feel like I made a mistake digging my heels in on insisting 30 days for her.
I hope you know your DD is
I hope you know your DD is not covered by insurance when she is driving illegally, and since you are liable for whatever damage she does, she could bankrupt your whole family. She is a butthole and your DH is undermining you. She is not entitled to drive, she is not a special snowflake, she can ride the bus or walk like everyone else.
I now see how she’s becoming
I now see how she’s becoming a snowflake because we spoiled her too much. On Sunday night, I told her I expect that she clean the bathroom she uses from top to bottom – it’s still not cleaned.
But that paled in comparison to the blowup yesterday when my daughter outright defied me by having a friend drive her from school to her boyfriend’s house so she could see him on Valentine’s Day. I am apoplectic she feels she can determine for herself when to abide by her grounding, and seemingly not fear any consequences that I set for her.
She is too old for spanking
She is too old for spanking and way too young to have a car. Does your school district not provide bus transportation to and from school? Regardless, if the car was given to her to drive to and from school, why is she out all night at a boyfriend's house? Did I mention that nothing, NOTHING good can come from a 16-year-old with a car. Maybe she'll get pregnant; maybe she'll die in a car accident; maybe she'll just become more spoiled and belligerent, but nothing good will come from it. It's already proving divisive and she's already abused the privilege.
You are conflict adverse. He just wants to be her friend at any cost. This is a terrible setup for a kid with a propensity to walk all over both of you. Do yourself and her a favor. Get rid of the car.