Difficult stepdaughter and other question
Greetings,
I've been looking all over the web for a such a forum. Finally!!! I've been looking through prior threads, but don't see one that pertains exactly. I'll try to be brief.
I recently remarried a fellow divorcee who has two daughters, 13 and 17. I brought one daughter, 11, into the marriage. The issue is really about my 13-year-old stepdaughter. I hate to say anything negative, but it's been building to a crescendo. She honestly thinks she is the boss of the household. Not a day goes by without a screaming incident in which she grossly talks back to her mother and questions everything. She manipulates and lies constantly - about such stuff as having homework or taking a shower. She is borderline failing school.
She gets home from school every day and has a routine where she lays on the couch, glues herself to her iPad and demands to be fed, served and waited upon. She literally does not move. Or she will litter the couch with trash, stains and will not pick up after herself. It's so bad (and I am not exaggerating), she will use the bathroom and not flush the toilet because "it's not her job." The other day she demanded her mom get her sushi because "that's why daddy gives you money for child support, because it's mine."
Also the other day she told me, "You are going to pay for my college or give me the money because you make more than mommy." My jaw dropped. Finally, on her birthday recently, she woke up and literally yelled at all of us that she wanted her birthday presents that moment. (I wish I was making all this up).
I have been sensitive to the situation without saying too much. Mother's Day was the final straw. All my wife asked her to do is clean up for herself as a nice Mother's Day present. Instead, she did the opposite and I told her in even tones that it's Mother's Day and you should clean up for her. She said "Why??? It's not my job and it's unfair!!!" and stormed to her mom saying I had some nerve to ask her to clean up. My wife obviously backed me.
My wife has tried to discipline her repeatedly to no avail and said I have license to discipline, but when I try, I get the resentful tones and blowoff. I'm beyond frustrated.
Any advice anyone?
Read this is do it:
Read this is do it: http://steptogether.org/disengaging.html
She can act how ever she is
She can act how ever she is allowed to and she knows it. She runs the house and has tantrums because she's allowed to. Period.
It isn't step's job to discipline skids. It's the BioParent's job.
I saw this on a thread and I keep saying it over and over..."Not my monkey, not my circus" and I butt out and go about MY business. DISENGAGE and save yourself a ton of grief.
This is your wife's fault.
This is your wife's fault. You need to disengage now. But, ensure that she stay up in her room with her filth and not spread it to the rest of the house. Good luck, this is going to get worse. BTDT and have the t-shirt. 13 year old Step daughters are absolute hell.
Do not discipline in anyway, that has to come from bio's. You have to stand up for yourself, but you do not have to be responsible for this child and take her mouth.
My SD sued us at 14 and now at 18 is not allowed in my home. DH sees her once in awhile for dinner, but that is it. She burned a lot of bridges with me and still continues to do so. Read my old blogs and watch how they evolve from a brat to a menace that can destroy a family.
If the BioDad has no expectations or discipline, you are in for a hell of a ride.
She sued you!?!? WTF!? Okay,
She sued you!?!? WTF!?
Okay, I gotta go back and read your blogs now....
Go back 4 years...She got mad
Go back 4 years...She got mad at Dad (we had 50/50)for not allowing her to date and BM supported it and paid for it. Said we micromanaged her and I wasn't nice to her because we had rules. Long ugly story, but she has had the kid the last 4 years and she is one giant screw up and SS15 who we have because he turned around and did the same thing to BM a year later, is getting A's and B's and considers me mom.
It was absolute hell. DH and I are about celebrate our 5th wedding anniversary and I am damn shocked I didn't leave his ass over this stuff and we are actually happy despite BM and SD.
>"You are going to pay for my
>"You are going to pay for my college or give me the money because you make more than mommy." <
"*Ahem*....Oh dear little grasshopper. My money is going to STAY in my pocket because my money serves me better in my pocket than it ever will it yours. Once you earn your own money, you will come to understand this, provided of course you have no debtors or Repo men chasing after you...."
Yeah, your SD is the flying flagship of entitlement is she? Yes, she is right, it is not her "job" to do anything, just like it is not you nor your wife's "Job" to discipline her. It is responsibility and she needs a heavy dose of it - like yesterday.
I believe in single warnings where you state that X action will merit Y consequences. You talk back? Ipad is confiscated for a week. Talk back again? Ipad sold on ebay. AND YOU FOLLOW THROUGH. With every disciplinary action, a priveledge is revoked until you reach a point where SD has nothing for herself but a plain mattress in her bedroom and box of unwashed clothes (even the door to her room is removed from it's hinges).
Good to hear that your wife is behind you on this. Most partners SO's (like my wife) won't back their play which is why many of us disengage.
All, Thanks for the input
All,
Thanks for the input and advice. I would like to disengage, but it bothers me to no end to hear her talk back the way she does to her mother. Her mother tells her on and on to be quiet, the end, or enough, but it continues. It also confirms my thoughts: that she rules the roost.
Someone used the perfect word: entitlement. If her older sister misses a day of school due to illness, she starts yelling that she deserves the following day to make it fair, sick or not.
I have suggested to my wife we write rules together, present them to all the children and tell them the consequences - NO exceptions. She is in agreement. I fully support the idea of confiscating said iPad and, perhaps, putting on eBay.
Hipdad, do yourself (and your
Hipdad, do yourself (and your family) a favor....When you write down these rules, make sure your wife is 110% on board. Write the rule and repeat the rules to yourselves about 3 or 4 times so that you both understand them.
I say this without exagerration because if your wife is like some bioparents on here who cannot help but feel guilty when they apply the rules, you may find these rules *suddenly* misread, misinterpreted, or changed on the fly to suit the situation.
For example, let's say your wife asks SD to clean up after herself and your SD tells her to Eff off. Your wife *may* be inclined to find some excuse to alleviate the pending guilt "Oh well, she is having a bad day, and she recently told me that she misses her bio-dad,..." or some other BS excuse.
Someone here said it best, disciplining children like this is like holding the rudder steady against a raging storm. You can't let go of it, NOT FOR A SECOND with kids like these...
You can try this, but it will
You can try this, but it will back fire on you. DH did not think they were needed, so it never happened. They were basic and it was brought up in court that I did this.
DO not do it, is my best advice. Your wife has to discipline and you have to step back. It sucks, but it is the best thing to keep your sanity. Your wife created this monster, she has to deal with her and you have to learn to walk away or she will choose her child over you. Or the child will leave as what happened to us. I have learned to disengage, but not until it was way too late. I came into that little girls life too late. You have too, she is who she is. BM created her she needs to fix her. Our BM is a Disney mom all the way with full custody of SD and she has no rules and no boundaries and that is why she can't come back here.
>They were basic and it was
>They were basic and it was brought up in court that I did this. <
That you did what? Wrote up the rules? Enforced them?
I'm still reading your past blogs JSMom. Geezus, I thought I wrote a lot! (I mean that in a good way).
Yep...I micromanaged her and
Yep...I micromanaged her and was not supportive of my Stepkids and their personalities.
I believe in spanking as long
I believe in spanking as long as it is quick and not abusive. I also believe a tap to the head works too, when they mouth off. Did it to BS a couple of times and he never talked to me that way again.
I was an abused teenager from a military dad and I still believe in it. I was afraid of my parents and I think that every kid should have a little bit of fear of their parents. Fear that they don't do something wrong and have to face me. My son is a good kid, read my blog from this morning and I have no regrets with how he has been raised.
He got really mouthy once around 8 years old (his father passed away when he was 6) and we were coming home from a trip to our family cottage and their is a military school near there. I pulled up and parked the car in front of the gate as they were doing their training walks right near us. I looked at him and said "If you ever get out of control that I can not handle it, I will send you here and I will take a 2nd mortgage on the house to do it, I love you and I will not let you ruin your future. It is just us and I need us to be a team or something to that effect. He said he understood and was not ever a problem again. He had a little mouthy entitlement in HS a few times, but this stuck with him and he mentioned it a few times that he knew I would do it.
Nope. I spank MY kids to.
Nope. I spank MY kids to. Its not the first punishment I dole out. Most of the time we do timeouts and corners, but if the behavior doesnt stop, or gets worse I will spank. I also give warning that spanking is about to occur. I count, at 5 Im done. I have nice respectful kids because of it. My kids dont usually act out in public. They are so wellbehaved other mothers and grandmothers compliment me on how well behaved my kids are.
I do not spank my skid though. The one time I layed a hand on that child I got the wrath from MIL GMIL and the animal. That child was ten years old, literally as big as I am, in my face, and screaming at me. Im an abuse survivor. If my ex had gotten his way I would be dead. Nobody gets in my face because I get scared and will go into protect mode. So this kid got popped in the mouth (openhanded and it wasnt really that hard), I just wanted him out of my face. Honestly? I dont know if that was the right thing to do or not. Im not sure what I was supposed to do. I didnt have control of the situation or my actions. I have spent a lot of time thinking about it. I still have no idea what would have a better choice. Sometimes I regret it and think I shouldnt have done it, and others times Im sure I did the right thing. I dont know. What I do know is MIL spent a long time talking to him about it and told him how wrong I was for doing it. She also took my DH to the side and told him all if her opinions about it and how wrong I was. DH didnt defend me at the time, there was no repurcussion for skid for being in my face screaming at me other than what I did. I know that it didnt change the behavior at all, and if anything his disrespectfulness to me has gotten worse, not better. So, I dont deal with it anymore. Hes not my kid, and I had absolutely no backup. If put in the same situation I dont know if I would do it again or not.
But, I dont give CrazyPants any kind of punishment anymore. The last time he was screaming at me. I put him outside untjil his dad got home. Its his dads responsiblity to teach him, not mine. And I dont want to deal with the fallout of me doling out any kind of punishment to this child. I will not be alone with this child, this child is a cruel manipulative SOB, and his dad can deal with it.
I would never spank a SK.
I would never spank a SK. That is a recipe for jail time...
I rarely spank. Actually I
I rarely spank. Actually I think I only spanked my BS once. Most of the times I force my kids to play my favorite game!
It's called, Sit-down-and-do-nothing!. Game is simple. You sit down....and do nothing! Game lasts 5 minutes. If anyone violates the rules, another 5 minutes is added to game time!
Mind you, my kids are still toddlers, so time-outs are more effective with them than they are with teens (I think - I never spanked a teen)
Funny the spanking issue came
Funny the spanking issue came up. I was a product of an era where spanking was the norm. One cross word back to either parent and that was it. No chances. No apologies. It was done. I brought this issue up with my SD yesterday in a separate conversation when I finally said, 'You know what, if either of us talked that way to our parents, we'd get spanked and grounded.'
She started saying that's child abuse and if her mom spanked her, she'd call NJ DYFS on her. Her mother, as long as I've known her, has never touched her.
In regard to the rules, my wife has said repeatedly she's with me 100 percent on drawing them up and enforcing them. I'm at a point where I will be the bad guy, where I take the iPad and lock it in my car for however long it takes or even throw it up on eBay. I know I'm definitely at the point of not wanting to deal with a rocky household as long as the SD lives with us. The father lives a mile away, has alternating weekends, pays his child support, but beyond that, does not want either of his daughters to live with him.
It's very frustrating because the SD usually calls him whenever my wife tries to discipline her, playing one against the other. Most of the time he hangs up on the daughter and says he doesn't want to hear it.
>ETA - the CPS worker also
>ETA - the CPS worker also said that spanking becomes ineffective pretty much after the age of 10-11.<
I would tend to agree. I too grew up in an age where one wrong word would have my parents knock me into next week. I swear, Russel Peters was really talking about MY father and not his. "You want to call CPS? Here let me get the phone and call them for you, but not before I beat you with it!" As I grew older, my parents would deprive me of certain things (can't use the car, take away my books, etc). With our SS we take away his precious electronics, but I am convinced that is not effective either. I believe that the punishment should merit the crime that he is being punished for. Not doing well in Math? well guess what? You have an extra 3 hours of math work to do per week. Wasting your food again? You're going to come grocery shopping with me, help me prepare the food and clean the dishes for the next week. Not cleaning your room when asked? Fine I'll clean it. Don't be surprised if several precious items of yours go missing though.
What I listed above is what *I WANT* to do but but unfortunately I can never get my DW 100% onboard. Oh she'll agree to it at first, but the first sign of tears from her son and she backtracks at Warp speed. That's one of the reasons why my SS is in danger of failing grade 8. He has absolutely no reason to do well because he has never had to suffer the consequences of performing badly in school.
That's another part of the
That's another part of the problem. My SS goes to his Dad's every weekend. So when we ban him from - say - video games, what do you think SS does at his Dad's all weekend? He binges. If divorced bio-parents can effectively co-parent this wouldn't be an issue, but effective co-parenting is as rare as good management, accountable political leaders, and credible Big Foot sightings.
Fightincrazytrain, I have
Fightincrazytrain, I have started taking steps now to show her who is in charge. I told my wife last night I am done with it. She knows I'm serious. My wife did take her bedroom door off its hinges thereafter to start the process.
My wife and I also had a looooong talk last night and we came out in full agreement on what's going to happen going forward. We presented hand-written rules to all the children. If they do not abide after one warning, there will be consequences. I even made it perfectly clear that no iPad is safe from going on eBay.
The other two girls aren't an issue at all, so more or less, these 'rules' were designed for the SD who thinks she is in charge.
She left things out last night and didn't pick up after herself, so I threw them out. I'll keep doing it. If it's the iPad, oh well.
I don't relish being the bad guy, but I agree, this is going to go a long way to teach the SD about how the world is - that it's not a Kim Kardashian life (no disrespect. OK, a little). I told the SD last night that life is not about entitlement and what you want. I asked her if she knew who Veruca Salt was from Willy Wonka and perhaps she needs to research her. Finally, I mentioned that her mother is not a servant and owes her nothing, because she gave her life, the greatest gift she could ever have.
As for her DYFS threat (have to admit I do crack up at Russell Peters' take), it dawned on me she continually hits her sister but yet screams bloody murder that my wife will hit her. We told her if she hits again, we're taking her to a disciplinary boarding school.
Yep, I have a couple of
Yep, I have a couple of suggestions. When you and your bride became equity partners in life you each became equity parents to any children in your marital home regardless of biology. So parent and discipline your hell spawned 13yo SD as you would your own daughter if she were exhibiting those behaviors.
That your DW has your back and has asked you to parent and discipline this smart mouthed little crotch dribble of a SD says that she gets it and needs your help.
Next time SD-13 gets lippy and does not immediately do exactly what she is told to do when she is told to do it you and your bride need to stand side by side, take her iPad, drop in on the floor and stomp on it. Both of you take a stomp to demonstrate that the marriage and your adult partnership comes firmly before SD and her feelings. Then tell her to get up and move or she will get a butt woopin. Each time she gives lip her currently cherished items meets the floor and the bottom of a shoe. Each and every time. If she fails to immediately get off of her ass and execute the instruction you and DW inform her that she can bend over, assume the position and then light her ass up with a belt or paddle. The more lip she gives the greater the escalation of consequence. She can start doing more chores, she can do without an internet connection, mobile phone, music, etc, etc, etc….. If she keeps up the behavior then she can do the dishes every night after dinner. When she gets home from school she either does her homework, shows you and her mom that is complete or she can copy pages out of the dictionary by hand in perfect handwriting for hours on end. Sentences are good too. Tens of thousands of them. All in perfect handwriting and in compliance with a strict quota. 160-180 sentences per hour was what kept my Skid on task when we landed on sentences as an effective consequence for him between the ages of 8 and 14.
My Skid took a while to gain clarity that lies, temper tantrums, failing to do his school work and to perform to his abilities academically, etc… would gain him only immediate and significant negative consequences. It took him burning randomly selected Yu Ghi Oh cards (through the tears he communicated that the ones we made him pick randomly from the pile always seemed to be the best ones) and the destruction of his first iPod. Eventually we arrived on sentences as a very effective method to get his attention.
Keep the sentence focused on the behavior that you are trying to correct.
e.g I will do what I am told when I am told to do it or I will bear the consequences of my decision not to do as I am told.
One messy sentence clears one hour of her quota work and she does that hour again.
My kid wrote tens of thousands of sentences over the years. The bonus …. he has spectacular hand writing. One advantage of sentences is that is punishes only the kid and not the rest of the family. The kid in question can write the sentences in a room isolated from everyone else so that the rest of the family can enjoy themselves without the presence of the lippy little shit kid. No need to stay home while the kid is writing sentences. Load her in to the car with everyone else and as soon as you get done with whatever family activity and you return home she goes straight back to writing sentences.
The only way to deal with this kind of kid behavior IMHO is to deal with it directly, firmly and consistently in a united front with your spouse.
Your SD-13 will realize that she either pulls her head out of her own ass or she will live a life of abject misery.
As for her comments on you having to pay for her college ... tell her clearly that you do not have pay one penny for her college and not only are you NOT going to pay one penny of her college costs she will be out on her ass on her 18th birthday unless she fixes her current apparently terminal case of Cranio-Rectitis in a hurry.
I like the idea of boarding school. In fact it worked wonders on my SS. We sent him to military school for his Jr. and Sr. years of HS. He learned that it is not only mom and dad that have expectations and who can bring consequences. He thrived, at least until his Sperm Idiot hacked the school fire wall so he and SS could stay up all night gaming together and SS would be a zombie in class. The lessons from military school did stick though and he is doing well in the USAF.
All IMHO of course.
Good luck.
^^^ LOVE this advice.
^^^ LOVE this advice. really spot on. Im going to have to bookmark it for myself for dealing with my SS.
I really like the sentence
I really like the sentence idea Rags. My SS's handwriting looks like kidnapping ransom notes.
No corporal punishment
No corporal punishment dictated in the divorce decree and he won't perform the punishment. Time to escalate the consequences. Take him by the scruff of the neck, march him to a corner, shove his nose in to the corner and inform him that if his nose loses contact the corner he will get a swift kick in the butt. No swats just the side of a foot applied with enough force to put his nose back in the corner.
Take his bed, take his clothes, take everything out of his room, take the door to the room, no computer, no cell phone, no electronics. If he has homework he can go to the local library and do his research with actual books a #2 pencil and a essay book. He can wear a single outfit every day to school and he can wash it by hand in the sink every afternoon when he gets home. He can eat only bread, water, tuna fish, and the vegetable he hates the most, he can sleep in a cold hard floor. Shut off the AC and Heat to his room. The more he rebels the greater level of abject misery is forced in to his life. As he gains clarity and begins to extricate his head from his own ass he can earn back items at a very slow pace.
If nothing else works, try military boarding school. It worked for my dad, myself, my younger brother and my Skid.
Welcome to Steptalk. I am
Welcome to Steptalk. I am pretty new here myself, but this site is really an awesome venue. It is great to hear from both genders here.
I am 8 months into a marriage with DW, SD14 and SS11. I am in a similar situation regarding feeling that your skids (one in particular) have unwarranted power in the running of the household. I recall having the tearful conversations with DW (then girlfriend) about how the skids (and some of the time their BF) would combine gang up on her (BF via phone or text) to get their way or justify behavior or whatever. It was something they engaged in with skill and very effectively. DW would tell me that she is sick of it and I would think, "I can help with that." I, like you, am not afraid of being considered "the bad guy." I have always told my bios that I that I am not afraid of them disliking me once in a while.
This sounds like the most sensible thing in the world. The problem with being the bad guy in your situation is that you will most likely become the bad guy in your DW's eyes as well. Your skids will rebel and if it is an option get their other biological parent involved. Then your DW will feel the heat from all parties, and they won't do it in a way or a situation in which you can be there to offer the support you are willing to offer. Threats and accusations will be made to her. DH is an abuser. DW has chosen DH over 'us.' You will literally not believe what gets said. Then things will get REALLY complicated because YOU will be seen as the one who wanted change, very possibly even by DW. Everyone else will say DW was fine with the things have always been. DW will agree with them to some extent, because of the pressure, because change is hard, and because the interaction and behavior which you are trying to change have been CHOSEN and ENDORSED for a long time by DW. Working this out is very difficult.
I have chosen, to a large degree, disengagement. Seriously, read about it. It is not ignoring your skids. To me it is saving yourself from walking around feeling as resentful about all the things you are trying to do, are expected to do, and want to do. It gives you power over your own feelings. It is pretty effective, but make sure that your DW understands and is on board with it. It may save you a lot of time and energy.
Good luck.