I had a nightmare last night
I've never had dreams about the cretins before. It had to be related to reading things in here along with SD calling her daddy yesterday and her phony manipulative inquiry about me.
We were at SD's wedding (which IRL was pretty damn horrible for us, but not this bad) and dinner was served. But they purposely had no plate for me. I went to DH and said I didn't get any food. He walked over to BM to remedy the situation, and I thought: Oh no, he just walked into that trap; she is happy that I am upset by this! It all went downhill from there. I spent the rest of the dream trying to figure out how to get home (couldn't find the car), looking at my watch, hating to be the object of humiliation, which all of them (skids and BM) were enjoying in front of their guests.
Think this is a reaction of being disrespected
For some reason,, most likely many reasons. SD and BM are playing games where you are being disrespected. You must start preparing yourself for a battle you see coming. As Country's always prepared themselves. You have a feeling that DH doesn't have your back. That's a bad thing .
'you must demand respect.
It's been a while since I've
It's been a while since I've had a skid dream (nightmare). But it's coming up on holiday pilgrimage season, and stress comes along with the falling leaves. But the pilgrimage won't happen this years since SD banned DH. Don't know about SS--last year was kind of a disaster.
Hoping my dream world transforms into holiday joy. That would be nice.
?
Have you ever wondered why holidays seem to involve a lot of 'forced' gatherings? I'm using 'forced' loosely...not sure of the right word; so many expectations can be dictated by tradition, control, etc. This can be with intact families, step families, dysfunctional families, etc. People you see very little, or not at all, throughout the year. (Many times for very good reason!) There's just this big push for 'togetherness'.
I ask myself why it's so important to spend precious time with people who one doesn't make time for/wish to see routinely (example: stressful SKIDS, difficult family members, etc.) on a holiday? Of all days! It's a day that I wish to see only the very most important people in my life. My ideal is to have a relaxing day with 'my people', not a stress filled obligatory interaction with those on the fringe of my life or who don't even matter at all (to me, personally).
Has anyone else wondered why we do this or struggled with this scenario? Is it guilt? Fear of disappointing someone? There are probably many reasons. I would like to normalize participation based on true wishes not obligation! Thoughts?
I think there is a lot of
I think there is a lot of guilt associated with holiday gatherings. My ex SIL, who was normal and lovely except when it came to holidays, used to plan for the holidays in the summer, inviting us early to make sure we didn't spend them with my family. When we didn't go along with her plans, which were very regimented, she'd cry. We bought a mountain cabin and began escaping to it on thanksgiving just to get away from it all. (We'd spend Christmas with family.)
My skids were not allowed to spend holidays with us, but they "had" to spend one Thanksgiving with us (very long story), and that was the weekend I said no more--they were not allowed back. We only spend holidays with people we like and love.
OMG
I have one of those SILs (without the normal and lovely the rest of the time) who would try to grab all festive days and hated me because I refused to commit or turned down the invitation almost systematically. She would often sulk when she didn't get her way.
This!!!
This is what I am moving toward...only spending the important days with 'my people'.
However, I understand that he has 'his people' too.
This is the interesting part, IMO.
"[DH] walked over to BM to remedy the situation"
That tells it all right there. Subliminally, you were expecting/hoping that your DH would "have your back" and give you the sustenance you need (meal). His way of doing that was to ... go to BM. ???
Hmmm. I'm thinking that's kind of telling, Mia. Normally, wouldn't a spouse go to the waitstaff or the wedding planner and get you a plate?
The other part is the rest of the dream was spent trying to get yourself out of the situation. Again, wouldn't your DH be leaving with you?
I'm no Sigmund Freud, but I think this dream tells you that you do not think your DH will prioritize your needs (meal), will rally with BM (seeking her help/approval) for issues she's involved with, and will let you fend for yourself when you need to escape.
Thanks. Re: DH going to BM,
Thanks. Re: DH going to BM, that was in the dream because we knew she had masterminded the situation. IRL, at SD's wedding, the wedding coordinator tried to banish me to a cold outdoor faraway corner when "first look" photos were to be taken and DH said a clearly angry hard no to that, so in these types of situations, he does have my back and I know it.
Now, for me taking the lead in trying to leave (he was with me in the dream, but you make a good point), that is different (although IRL, DH wanted to leave SD's wedding before the ceremony; I talked him into staying, knowing he'd fulfill the public villain narrative if we walked). BUT I think DH saying to me the other day that phony ass SD asked about me brought back my feelings of being the only one here who really sees through ALL of the BS.
It's a mixed bag with us. DH is totally onboard with the skids not ever coming to our house again. He does not want the skids notified if he experiences another health emergency. He recognizes that his skids are failures, and he sees his part in why. He also realizes that it's too late for change or higher expectations. And that doesn't mean he stopped caring for them. He also believes or wants to believe that his widdle baby girl SD is 100% brainwashed by her mother (well, she is) and that widdle baby girl is not allowed to act like she doesn't hate me (to/with her mother) or else there will be hell to pay. Therefore, SD, and SS to some degree, is "forced" to "act" like she hates me to please her mother.
The point is I don't care WHY SD acts the way she does. It's unacceptable and I don't want her in my life.
When people show you who they are, believe them.
This anniversary of DH's health issues and wrangling the skids last year, along with the upcoming holidays (we never see the skids during holidays, but it has traditionally been game playing time with them) has really thrown me lately. I am disappointed that this crap still bothers me when, prior to DH's issues last year, I had reached a place where these personalities were floating out there beyond my everyday reality.
Again, thanks for propelling me toward thinking this through.
!
This is interesting! BM's influence may make, in his mind, his excuses plausible. There likely remains that glimmer of hope....
I think for the first time, DH truly sees OSD for what she is. Here comes the giant BUT!!! He occasionally will offer a weak excuse for her behavior. Nope! Not having it! I calmly refute what he is saying and that is the end of it. Like your DH, there is still that glimmer of hope....
I am just thankful that she is not allowed in our home, that I have no contact, that DH has very little contact, and that in spite of the glimmers, he is on to her nonsense. Deep down HE KNOWS.
Hmmm. Time to take it up a notch.
Start carrying a high end tote bag with a silk napkin and place mat, a top brand china plate, wine glass, and silverware. Then if this happens IRL turn your nose up at the peasant dishware that BM provides, pick it up with a napkin so not to soil your petal soft manicured hands with her low class items and set them aside. Then place your silk place mat, napkin, high end dinnerware in the proper order on the table, then take your plate and select foods that are to your elevated standards while making bitter beer face and wrinkling your nose at most of the foods available. Then go back to your proper place setting, pull high end foods out of your bag, and enjoy.
Have fun!!!
I know it is a dream, but.... why not have some fun with it? Being radiant and living well are the best revenge. Have fun living your best life and rubbing their noses in it.
I remember…
...the nightmare in which OSD was trying to kill me. I felt such unease for a long time afterwards, I still feel that, if she had opportunity, she would make it happen.
DH insists she "would never" hurt you. He also insists his mother would not put up with her nonsense. Wrong on both counts, he vastly underestimates OSD and vastly overestimates his mother. I say this with certainty; 4 months ago, when MIL thought OSD "was trying to kill Trudie" she did absolutely NOTHING to come to my aid. In fact, even though she heard the entire interaction, she blamed me. Even though I said NOT ONE WORD. I do not get in the mud with pigs...or anyone. How does one even deal with this level of dysfunction, other than disengage?
I will continue to follow my gut.
I get this totally. Every
I get this totally. Every once in a while I will have my own nightmares about SD29. Thank goodness this doesnt occur every night! The last one I can remember the most is of her showing up unannounced and moving in. That actually did happen in real lifein the past so I supposed its valid as to why I had that dream. It is a fear or worry that does seep into my subconscious every now and then .But still have my guard up and , I woke up in a cold sweat thinking it was real, since it was that vivid and that is one of my worst nightmares actually.
The only nightmares I have
The only nightmares I have ever had in my life were related to my SIL My younger brother's wife. They included my brother.
There is some backstory that likely influenced the severity of those two nightmares. Or more accurately, the same nightmare that I had twice across a couple of years. First, we lost our youngest brother, when he was 10mos old, to a virulent onset disease. He got sick one day, and passed the next. He was 2yrs younger than my surviving younger brother. The baby passed when I was 9 and my brother was 3.
Next ,I had experienced an empathetic nightmare that my mom had a couple of years after we lost my youngest brother. She had a dream about losing my remaining brother. I saw her dream with absolute clarity as she was having it. I was sitting by her as she napped on the sofa. More likely than seeing her dream was that she told me about it. A very powerful experience let me tell you. Then, what she dreamed happened. My brother and I and our neighbors were taking a dump-truck load of yard debris to the dump. The neighbors were a single dad and his son who was the same age as my brother. As we pulled away the door of the 50+yo rental dump truck flew open and my brother fell out of my lap into the road. The neighbor stopped the dump truck as the dual real wheels of the loaded dump-truck rolled against my little brother's head. One more inch and his head would have exploded. Before the truck had stopped I dived after my brother trying to catch him as he fell. I missed. I was about 12yo. Had I been a fraction of a second quicker he would have never fallen out of the truck when the door latch failed and the door flew open. Had the neighbor been half a second slower hitting the brakes I would have lost my second little brother in about 3yrs. In mom's dream, he passed, I was not there to try to save him. Not that I did save him. It was a fraction of a second thing though. After her nightmare and before my brother actually fell out of the dump-truck she had burned the shirt he was wearing in her nightmare. One of those things that make you go hmmmmm. What if he had that shirt on as he did in mom's dream? Not something that melds well with my engineeric brain, but.....
Flash forward about 25-ish years and my brother is married, has two young children. He is struggling in his marriage. My SIL is a trust fund baby who pretty much has not worked a day in her life. She went from one set of her parents (mom and StepDad) to the other (dad and SM) who were both very wealthy to being my brother's wife. He is exceptionally successful though in those days he was a young new hire engineer. Her mom and StepDad sent her to university on the full meal deal parent full ride scholarship. She ran from her first University after a very short time under unknown circumstances that had something to do with a sorority and a party. Shortly there after she moved to the Sate where her dad and SM were living. Her mom and SD and her dad and SM covered her completely at a University in dad's State. That is where she met my brother. He and I had moved to that State for engineering school two mos after my divorce was final and I sold my share of my company to my business partners. They met about 2yrs after we started school. together.
They dated for almost a year when she cheated on my brother. He had decided to end it when..... SURPRISE! My niece was in the oven, so to speak and the baby batter was baking. They married 4mos before my niece was born. The bullshit started early. Her dad and SM decided to intervene in my brother's breaking up with her before anyone knew she was pregnant. Dad and SM were of the mind that "It is only sex. What is the big deal?" the absolute wrong position to take with the son of a couple who had been married more than 30 years at that time. We graduated together with our BS-Eng degrees the day after my niece was born. We both went to work for the same company out of University. Along with all but 5 of our graduating class. We were sent to a different State to start to transition of manufacturing to a 3rd State. While in the 2nd state the company was putting two new hires in two BR apartments for the up to 1yr temp assignment. The policy was no families were allowed to accompany and the company would send the employee to their home state once a month for family visits. Because my niece was less than a week old when we reported to start work we worked with HR to be assigned as room mates and got HR dispensation approval for my SIL and niece to live with us. We were on salary, per diem, had company cars, and our housing was fully paid for and provided by the company. I worked with HR to get my own apartment and DW and I married while we were on our reverse hire assignment. My brother and I were notably high performers during that time and the company was happy to work with us on letting us live together so my brother's family could join him/us and then when DW and I were planning on getting married. Not overly popular with our peers who were not allowed to bring their families. But.......
After our reverse hire tenure was finished and we moved to our permanent State of residence we followed them by several months and leased a home down the street from their leased home. After a year they bought and built a new starter home. About 9mos later we bought a home on the same street about a mile from them. Not long after that my nephew was born.
I get that she may have felt that he and I were inordinately close. Her family is not and never was that close. We were. We should have remained that close for our entire lives.
My SIL lost her ever loving mind. She threatened to take my brother's kids if he did not entirely cut off from my family and do exactly what he was told to do when he was told to do it. He came to me in tears asking what he should do. I went zero tolerance in my advice (Surprise!) and told him to compile anything and everything including her spending hours a day, day after day curled up in the bathtub in the fetal position refusing to engage in therapy, call the police/911 when she had one of her mental breakdowns, and get his kids TF out of there. He was terrified of losing his kids, having to battle his very wealthy ILs, etc... What he calls my usual "Kick em in the ass!" advice made him angry. That conversation was the last interface we had for a year or more. That period went on for about 3 years. We worked together and even at work he avoided me. The only interface we had was when mom and dad would come home to the States for the holidays. He even disengaged from them telling them that they could not stay with him and his family when on leave. The usual was for mom and dad to visit their respective parents/family for about a week each, then come to us and split the rest of their time half staying at my brother's house and half with us. They were usually with us for a couple of months. It was of course no problem or burden for them to stay with us. But.... how hurt my parents were infuriated me with my brother to no end. He knew it without me having to say a single word to him. It was obvious from the heart break and embarrassment on his face every time he saw me. Which was nearly every day at work.
An indicator of how disconnected we were was one weekend when my DW, SS, and I went to a movie at a mega-plex theater. We had purchased our tickets and were in line for popcorn, drinks, etc... We were standing in a line of about a dozen people. A few people ahead of us a guy started talking. It was my brother. We had walked in behind him, bought our tickets just after he had, and were in line for the usual movie gourmet food fare. I called his name, he turned around. I had not recognized him o rhis kids. We had not seen each other/them for about 5mos due to a temp reorg at work. Not that it would have mattered. We only caught a glimpse of each other at work at best. He had lost 80lbs in that 5mos and it had been so long since I had seen my niece and nephew they had brown so much that I had not recognized them either. When they heard my voice calling to their dad they both ran into my arms.
During that time, one night I levitated out of bed gasping for breath while expressing a gut wrenching soul tearing moan. DW was up instantly holding me while I struggled to breath. In my dream my brother had died. I had found him on a loading dock at work. I was kneeling next to him holding him when my SIL drove buy in her convertible all joyous and chipper waving on her way to do whatever mindless bullshit she does with her useless friends of the moment. There have been countless dozens of those over the years. She made so much eye contact with me in the dream that it was clear she saw me kneeling and holding her dead DH in my arms. Yes, I know it was a dream but it was so vivid and soul destroying that I can see it now 30 years later as if I just flew out of bed.
That dream was terrifyingly real. I was there. The visual detail was impeccable. I was in a funk for months on end after that. Seeing my brother at work every day and not being able to interface with him was like holding his dead body in the dream. At the sight of him I would have tears streaming down my face.
Some time ((a year or so) later I had exactly the same dream again with the same result. I could not breath. I was gasping for air with a background low soul wrenching moan.
I get the oh too realistic nightmares caused by real life drama and trauma.
They just had their 31ist anniversary a week or so ago. That my brother has never had a true partner to make his life with breaks my heart. Since all of that was going on mom and dad and me have had zero trust for my SIL. She has not discernibly changed a bit. She remains the most self serving no substance facade only person I have ever experienced in my life. She is not evil. She has a heart of gold. But, what she did to my brother and to my family has put her beyond redemption or forgiveness. Not only for me.
The time when he disengaged under threat by my SIL was critical bonding time between mom and dad and my bride and me. Our home was theirs when they were in the States. Because we lived down the street from my brother's family the at least got some glimpses of their GKs and to play with them in m brother's front yard upon occasion. After my brother and SIL sold that house they moved across town about 5miles away. That was more challenging when mom and dad visited by the did get some invitations for a bbq at my brother's and towards the end of their time in that house even stayed with my brother and his family for short stays occasionally. There was always some drama as my SIL apparently had overwhelming guilt over the fact that our family relationships were so strong and my parents were loving and caring people and her family is not.
Ugggh. Just recalling all of that has tears running down my face. It has been nearly 30 years. My brother is an extremely special man. He was my person and I was his for almost half of my life up until I was 30 and he married. My wife and I have worked hard to dedicate ourselves to together being part of our respective families within the context of our marriage while me wake a life of adventure and a love for the ages together.
Thanks for letting me get it out... again. Hopefully it will be a number of years before I do it again.
OMG.
OMG.
Yes...
...OMG. Wow, Rags, this is a lot. I am sorry you have gone through all of this.
Rags
I knew, both from your posts specifically as well as the manner with which you give advice, that you were wired like an engineer. It absolutely suits you. Your scorched earth/ dress up and dazzle them advice (loose paraphrase) makes much more sense, in light of this recounting of memory. My condolences to you about those very early traumas with your brothers. Your loyalty has been forged in some fires. Those you love in action are very well blessed.
Yes...no redepemtion for the
Yes...no redepemtion for the SIL - her destructive ways tore two siblings with a good relationship apart. Very sad and unfortunate events - I can see some of this happening with SS and his lovely bride. She's torn a rift and although many think she is just the "nicest person" - actions always speak louder than words...her actions show she's ugly on the inside. Hope that nightmare remains dorminant for some time @Rags.
Yep, my SIL is one that many
Yep, my SIL is one that many think is sweet, caring, etc, etc, etc.... Which she certainly is. Though the few of us who know it all are very wary of her. She is not evil, or bad. She is just one who walks through life with her head in the clouds and regularly feels bad that her family life and relationships are shit which makes her feel guilty about how close our family is. Fortunately this round of them living in proximity to our parents has settled into an occasional dinner, that SIL attends, and my parents and my brother having lunch together fairly regularly while SIL does whatever it is she does.
I am glad that my brother seems to have finally gotten to a place where he is not unhappy and considering ending his marriage. Probably because it would cost him $Millions if he did. Long ago he first shared with mom, dad, and me that he has 4 kids. One he is married to. That is a regular share from him when he is with mom, dad, or me even now.
Great stuff, Rags!
Wow, Rags! I enjoyed that story almost as much as 'Lucifer's Hammer!' Very interesting, my dear.
Lol. I'm glad my SIL nightmares are so enjoyable.
Though on the relative scale of IL toxicity, she really is a light weight and not inherrently a nasty person. she really is a sweetheart in many ways and legitimately is caring and pleasant.
It is sad. My brother and I have evolved in the 30+ years since the SIL saga started to still very much care for each other though with very little interface. I got to a point where I refused to expose myself to the heartbreak and just put it all on him to initiate contact. Something he has never done on a regular basis since the advent or the SIL saga.
While we were in Qatar I invited my brother and his family to visit. My thought was it would be a good way for him to show his family the culture where he grew up. At that time KSA did not offer tourist visas and sponsoring visits from family was very difficult. Though we were not yet in KSA at that time. Qatar had VOA for US citizens so just fly in, get stamped at the airport, and enjoy a 60 day visit with an additional 30 day extension on request.
He balked. I'm not sure if his balking was due to the stated reason that it was expensive to fly 5 people or if it was SIL veto driven.I suspect it was SIL driven since he makes a crap ton of money and did even then. I pointed out that Qatar was on a regular transit route between their home in Asia and the US and they could make the travel as part of their annual company paid return to the US.
Nope. No effort.
A couple of years later I offered to get them visas to visit us in KSA after we tranferred there. Nope.
He would put it on me to visit them. Which we usually did.
In hind sight, I am not sure why we did it other than it was important to me/us to see him and the kids.
Yep, I have issues and baggage in the extended family realm though they all started with ... SIL's arrival. I wish I did not have those issues. In my mind they were and are completely unnecessary.
Glad you are enjoying both the book and my recounting of my nightmares. It does help to periodically get it out ... so to speak,
"Unnecessary" is the word.
"Unnecessary" is the word.