Signing kids away?

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Hello, it has been such a long time since I have been back.

Things have gotten really bad since our wedding. The step kids are out of control. Our marriage is amazing but now the evil stepkids are saying their dad is being abusive, saying I have said horrible things to them, etc...

We are looking into signing custody of them over to their step dad to adopt, or just not seeing them anymore.

Does anyone have experience with this?

Where is BM?

BM is the aggressor

My Dh signed over custody of

My Dh signed over custody of "his" younger son at age 9, but there's a lot to it. The kid was severely PASed, and was so conflicted he ended up in a mental hospital at the age of 8. His psychiatrist recommended that 50/50 custody be discontinued as SS couldn't handle the differences in households. So DH went for primary physical but lost. (NY is a highly pro-BM state.) He got EOWE. SS had severe behavioral issues at our home. He threatened suicide. He threatened to turn us in for abuse. It got so bad his law guardian and DH's attorney both recommended that visits be discontinued. At around that time, SS and BM both began claiming that he wasn't DH's biological child. A DNA proved this to be the case, and that BM's current husband was his father. In SS's best interest, DH made the painstaking decision to terminate his parental rights and let the kid's biological father legally adopt him. (It was treated as a stepparent adoption.)

The DNA had nothing to do with the decision. If the PAS wasn't so severe (and ignored by the family court) the kid would still be DH's son. He will always see him as his son. He grieves over his loss every day. The child was given a new name at 10 years old.

This is not a decision to be made lightly. It was absolutely heartbreaking for DH. I would recommend lots of counseling and consultations with an attorney before anything is done. Once that tie is severed, it's done. There's no going back. DH doesn't regret his decision, but it broke his heart. Again, the circumstances were extreme and unusual, what with the hospitalization and the SF actually being the biofather. If there's any hope of countering the PAS, please try.

That is heart breaking I am

That is heart breaking I am so sorry. My DH wasn't sure if SS was his thankfully everything came out before SS was even born and testing was done early on. By heart goes out to you and your DH

Thank you

Is this your only option?

Oh, Tommar. You are

Oh, Tommar. You are definitely entitled to your opinion. That is why we all come here--to give our opinions. However, I think a lot of this might be going on with bio-dad and kids regardless of whether he was married or not. There are a lot of single dads in similar situations. BUT, I do agree with you that signing your child over to someone else is a wa-a-ay last resort.

Thank you

Who cares what BMs want?

Who cares what BMs want? There's not a man on the planet that I would walk away from my minor kid for.

There are SMs here with full time SKs because the BMs made the selfish choice to dump the kids and run off with the new husband or SO. No one views those women as nothing more than worthless, POS "mothers".

I will yell at you, tommar.

I will yell at you, tommar. Do not throw away dogs. They are not rusty bicycles or outgrown dolls. They are emotional creatures dependent on their humans. They can suffer from loneliness, fear, and grief.

Now for the actual advice to the op. No one knows what her family has been through. I am willing to think the best of her until proven otherwise. She has since revealed more details and I think she is in the best position to know how unsafe her home has become and what is at stake if they stay the course. It does not sound like they have rushed to this step nor considered it lightly. She's gotten some good advice from folks who have been in similar shoes. None rushed to abandon the skids because they are bad and selfish people. Heartbreak and real danger was involved in each scenario.

No such thing!

This has been going on for

This has been going on for two years.... We thought it was fixed last year after counseling but it has actually gotten more and more severe. To the point where BM is trying to press charges for things that DIDNT EVEN HAPPEN. He could lose everything because of his kids sociopathic lies. @tommar - this has nothing to do with m being a bitch and not wanting my step kids. I have worked my ass off for these kids and won't stand by and have them DESTROY everything my husband has worked over 25 years to accomplish. O

Here is the fact. I care

Here is the fact. I care about my husband and take care of them. They are 4 day a month kids... They use their dad for his money and then go to their moms and say messed up things about him. To the point where his career can be affected. They are almost legal adults, they know better yet choose to do this.

He can give up visitation

He can give up visitation without signing his parental rights away.

Ok, how does that work?

He can modify the court order

He can modify the court order if he wants to do it officially (and any CS will probably go up) or he can just tell the kids and BM that he will no longer be taking them EOWE. Visitation is optional not obligatory. The NCP can refuse to use it.

That's exactly what I was

That's exactly what I was thinking BethAnne. Good suggestion.

Then he needs to stop with

Then he needs to stop with visitation. You say they are almost adults, then it is easy to stop the visitation and then try and work on it when they are legal and away from BM. Even if he never has a relationship, the kids can't say...Dad gave us away.

My dh has been fighting for

My dh has been fighting for his son for nine years. The situation with bm only gets worse. However, if he ever came to me and suggested signing away parental rights I would divorce him. Nothing you have posted constitutes never being part of your kids' lives except that it is too hard on you.

Unless there were extreme

Unless there were extreme circumstances (like the lady above when the SS wasn't biologically her husband's and he was already PAS'd) I would have more respect for my husband if he divorced me and stayed a part of his daughters life than if he stayed with me and signed his parental rights away. There are so many more options to go through before signing parental rights away should even be considered.

This is what I am trying to

This is what I am trying to get support for. Has anyone had experience with signing over, takin a break from, or walking away from kids? At what point do you say enough is enough and the lies and destruction is enough?

Do you have to go through the

Do you have to go through the courts to do that?

CassieNelson05 and others in

CassieNelson05 and others in this similar situation--my heart really goes out to you. I think GhostWhoCooksDinner had the best advice, being in a similar situation--think seriously before you leap. Although many of us have been in similar situations, yours does sound critical. I think a big question is: Does BM believe them or is she just letting you know what they are saying? If BM believes them, is the legal system then going to be involved, etc. Kids are kids and just don't think these things thru. Not saying that excuses it, but it isn't all the unusual for kids to come up with false accusations thinking it is an easy way out of having to go to dads and being able to stay at home with more permissive mom and their computer stuff, for example. Hard to believe kids would accuse dad of being abusive just for that, but, again, kids don't think these things thru at all. Best of luck to you in dealing with this very difficult situation.

Pinkflipflops - it definitely

Pinkflipflops - it definitely is a last resort and we literally have tried everything with them. BM actually believes this stuff..... She is a scorned woman and will do anything to get back at DH and has millions to back her. We would go bankrupt trying to prove his innocence

So if the kids don't want to come over, and want no relationship with their dad, what's the problem?

Teens can definitely be

Teens can definitely be assholes or whole asses! I vividly remember wanting kick dd16 to the curb and put a sign on her that said, "Free to a good home." I agree with the other posters that suggested refusing visitation over signing DH's rights away. It sounds like they are almost adults anyway and this won't be an issue for much longer. Let them stew in their hate with BM, nothing you can do about it but definitely protect yourself from allegations of abuse.

If this is something that

If this is something that your husband wants to do it has to be his decision alone and his actions alone. Be there to listen to his concerns, be his shoulder to lean on, but in my opinion you cannot actively help in anyway towards this. This is a huge step and it is one that he has to be certain he wants to take. He needs to be the one finding out how this all works legally, thinking through all the possible consequences, looking for alternatives. For your sake and the future of your marriage do not actively help him pursue this this. Let him do all the leg work if it is something he wants and be there for him emotionally.

Thanks Bethann. I am fearful

Thanks Bethann. I am fearful to have them in our home.

This is a very tough one and

This is a very tough one and I am so sorry that you and your SO have come to this, to think of having to give up his kids. I can only imagine how bad things must be as you look on this as a last resort. Heartbreaking. But definitely if the kids are lying and good at it, a man could lose everything including his job. Our BM did accuse FDH of abuse but the skids love him and didn't back that up and it only took the GAL ten minutes to spot it. I don't know what would have happened if the skids had made up the lies. I think that is a very difficult situation. The normal reaction is to fight tooth and nail for your kids but sounds like you have no choice. Sorry I have no experience with this.

Thank you Anna1. I love these

Thank you Anna1. I love these kids. They could really be good kids if BM wasn't around. They feed into her hatred for their dad and end up feeling the same way. We think we will refuse parenting time for the time being, so we have a chance to cool off. Truly horrible things have been said about us, our family vacation was twisted as if to sound like we endangered their lives and many other things. We won't be alone with the kids, we will get someone to be in our home with us when they are here.nwhether that be a family member, friend or otherwise.

I won't have my husband lose the career he has worked so hard to accomplish. I don't understand the anger those BMs have for their ex husbands. It is truly heartbreaking because in the end the kids lose. How can a man allow himself to be abused in this way? Yes they are his children but he is a person too.

We don't take this lightly and I wil, support him.

Our BM accused FDH of trying

Our BM accused FDH of trying to poison her with narcotics and sleeping pills during the divorce, charged him with physical abuse and had him thrown out of his home by the Sheriff. By the time his lawyer cleared his name, it was too late and he lost everything to her in the divorce. But not his time with the kids thank goodness. So before I even met him he was documenting everything, every email and text, everything the kid's said to him. She tried to PAS them to get full custody so she could get more money. At one point she was winning and both FDH and I knew he had to play just as dirty like her. It was not in his nature but definitely in mine }:) So we did our own informal investigation, found out she was leaving them at 4am alone at home to go to the gym, demanding they cook for themselves, spending lots of the CS on her botox injections etc etc. Oh yes, we got very creative and fought back. We had to otherwise he would have lost his kids.

charged him with physical

charged him with physical abuse and had him thrown out of his home by the Sheriff. By the time his lawyer cleared his name, it was too late and he lost everything to her in the divorce.

Yep same thing here. Your DH was smart to document everything. Even after all the dirty tricks the BM pulled, Chef (biodad) was still willing to "give her the benefit of the doubt" :barf:

Yep, same here.

I would check out Dr.

I would check out Dr. Childress' videos on Youtube. Child chasing is often not the answer as had been prescribed in the past.

In my case, the BM (Girhippo) IS a CPS/Foster care worker yet she is one of the worst mothers I have ever encountered. She was PASed out as a child by her BM so she continued the legacy. The goal was to punish Chef for moving on. If the skids could be used to further this effort (and they were) so be it.

We live in the pro-BM state of NY as many a poster can attest to, the father is supposed to be an ATM machine, smile in the face of massive disrespect and keep on buying his kids love.

All to the detriment of the children.

The last straw was when she used her pull as a CPS/Foster worker to put in a phoney abuse claim against us just because the feral children (again the parents fault) never had any boundaries, structure and discipline. By the time Chef (biodad) tried instituting a speck of discipline, it was all over.

She attempted to purposely withhold the findings from us so that we couldn't refute it in time. I caught this just before time ran out to be able to dispute the report. She had made sure that Chef was immediately placed on the NYS Child Abuse and Maltreatment registry (because he put SD in time out for kicking her brother in the face). This would have had a negative impact on his job (where the Girhippo gets her massive CS from)--he had to work on a Boy's and Girl's club construction project about three months after I got it overturned.

It took six months of contacting political representatives, etc. to finally get it switched over to "unfounded." The skids PASed out soon thereafter. Most likely due to the Girhippo being livid about the "unfounded" on her phoney abuse report. She ramped up the PAS accordingly.

Chef had a grieving period which included BLAMING ME and being very nasty to the point of physically attacking me on several occasions.

It's been six years to the date this Saturday since YSS has seen Chef. Seven and a half years for the older two siblings. They bought the PAS koolaid hook line and sinker.

The biggest mistakes made were:

1. For Chef NOT to hold the Girhippo to the CO; letting her violate every.single.line in it
2. For Chef to "take the high road" and overlook the budding PAS
3. For Chef not to parallel parent and instead, Disney/Guilt parent for fear of "losing the children" (TM) Which will happen all the faster as dad doesn't establish respect-worthy boundaries.

Whether he was married or not

Whether he was married or not would not change his relationship with his kids. They are mutually exclusive things. Getting rid of his marriage is not going to save his relationship with his kids.

That said, I would not sign anything away until the kids are 18 and if they decide they want to be adopted by their stepparent, they can do what Rags' son did which is petition for it themselves. I would, however, seriously consider stopping visitation.

Remember, a borderline parent can only function if they have someone to attack, an antagonist to their supposed protagonist in the little story they created. If you do not "chase", you can not be the "evil" one which the parent must "protect" their kids from. Depending on how old they are, I'd stop visits and let them find you if they want to pursue a relationship again. (12-13 would usually be my cut off.)

I can tell you that it

I can tell you that it literally doesn't change anything other than the fact that it empowers the children and the BM to believe they have control over their father's life. I have seen it first hand with my friends, mostly girls (although there were two guys I knew who acted the same), who have divorced parents--they revel in the fact that in order for their dad to maintain a relationship with them, they can impose their requirements on their father, including, but not limited to, whether or not he can date, but they can impose anything they want on him. These girls were from the ages of 8-14 when I knew them. At the time, it was weird, because I thought it made sense that their dad should do everything in his power to PROVE that they were number one, and if he didn't "choose" between them and the new partner, or if he didn't give in to them, he is a bad father. My parents weren't divorced so I didn't know how my own situation would be if they were. It's really a weird dynamic and it makes sense on a shallow level, which, apparently I operated on at one point when I believed them, and I would agree that if their father married and had new kids, that they should completely cut off contact and he would be dead to them. I wish I could go back in time and slap myself for ever thinking that's a reasonable action to someone not doing what you want them to do.

The only time I would throw my DH out is if he was dangerous or if he was purposefully contributing to the demise of my relationship with my child. But I know what personal responsibility means, and if our daughter turned out to be a bitch, I would kick her out until she straightened up and was ready for a relationship with me.

So what you are saying is

So what you are saying is that by not pursuing a relationship with them can stop their need to give their mom blank ammo against us?

Essentially, yes, that's what

Essentially, yes, that's what I am saying. This is based on the psychosis of these women and what patterns their mental illness operates on. They have a warped sense of "self" and requires an evil character to their good character to really function.

This actually can be in the form of anything and doesn't necessarily apply just to crazy BMs: Some BPD women exclusively go after men who are already in a relationship, thus the girlfriend is the "evil character" that needs to be overcome, while they themselves are the "good character" facing the hardship of defeating the evil character to "save" the boyfriend. Once they have him, they may have a happy relationship for a little bit, before they turn on the BF because they no longer have an antagonist to their story--so they turn their new SO into that antagonist. It's a really messed up.

But the only way to stop the collateral damage is to stop engaging. They don't look at (and subsequently warp their children's mind) the pursuit by the father as a noble deed, they use it to fulfill their fantasy of an evil man attempting to hurt/capture the children, while they are the heroes of the story attempting to save and keep the evil man away. Once the engaging is stopped, they have no more ammo, and therefore they can't "turn" the children against their father because there's nothing to turn against.

I can give you an example. Which I think I will put in a blog in a little bit. I know you don't know me and my DH's backstory but DH has a 5 year old son he has never seen nor contacted. He pays CS but is just considered a walking ATM. This was at the recommendation of his therapist who knew enough about PAS to give DH the choice: You can either fight now and have the child turned against you and caught in the crossfire, or you can wait until he grows up without warping his thought of you (even more) and if he pursues a relationship then, to be open to it. BM is in another state, and was diagnosed to be BPD (and therefore was required by her therapist to go to weekly counseling sessions with SS to build a relationship with him.) They were never married, just a short month long fling gone wrong (BM wanted DH to marry her.)

At the beginning, when he was eager to try to be involved, this is what would happen: If he asked questions (BM moved to another state before she gave birth), BM would say, "Why do you bother asking, you're not interested and I'm not going to treat you special just because you're his father. You abandoned him." but if he didn't ask questions or just meekly thanked her for sending him updates, she would say, "You don't even ask about how he is doing, and just getting a "thanks" is not enough for me updating you."

Anything he sent as a present was, "That stuffed animal is too dangerous because of the eyes, he could swallow them and choke and die." (even though he made sure it was age appropriate.) or "This blanket could cause SIDS!" (You mean the waterproof mattress pad...?) So he stopped sending things at all and DH doesn't even view the child as his son anymore. Just a kid he's related to (a relationship really does take physical closeness to build.) After the first few months of this constant, "Making him the evil character to be defeated in her story of heroism" he stopped. There was some residual stuff, mostly the idea of "abandonment" but nothing like abuse. She would also make remarks about how it would be dangerous for her to bring the kid to visit our state, implying DH would do something like kidnap him or kill her or something (yeah, crazy).

MIL, DH's mother on the other hand, never stopped. Guess who recently got made into the evil character? MIL did. Anything she sends now, even harmless candies that she had sent all the time before are now "choking hazards" or "cause allergies."

So your DH has a choice. Mine made this one, and we are happy and healthy and if SS ever wants to have a relationship with us, we are open. But we will no longer be at risk to be a target. Especially since BM has shown she is not above possibly making abuse allegations, neither DH nor myself can afford to have that on our record (He works with kids, and I am in the healthcare profession and my license can be revoked.) Only your DH can decide what's the best route for him.

Please tell me you have a

Please tell me you have a voice recorder on the phone calls? That is sickeningly deliberate.

I too wouldn't be with my SO

I too wouldn't be with my SO if he signed away his rights. I know there are extreme circumstances when it is necessary, but I just cannot figure one out.

I would suggest just stopping visitations. Making it clear to them that until they decide to act like respectable children or young adults that he is to not have any ties to them. If they choose to visit with him, they can but only for like lunch or dinner at a public place for now until he can trust them again.

Some "children" are so

Some "children" are so disgusting that I don't see how anyone tolerates them. I'm not talking about toddlers - but there are a few teens that are hopeless. Just had two instances lately of 14-15 year olds who killed parents, grandparents. Better to walk away from worthless sociopaths than to end up dead.

And no it is not always the fault of the parent when a kid is rotten. Some are just born that way.

I met with a therapist

I met with a therapist yesterday to help sort out my thoughts.. He said their behavior isn't teenage angst, it's sociopathic. Lying about little things is one thing but the lies they are telling had the therapist super concerned. He recommended talking to an attorney and stopping parenting time for a while

There you go.

Sometimes it in in the best

Sometimes it in in the best interest of the child.

A family friend got pregnant by a total loser at a young age. And to be honest she was no prize herself at that age. She is now about 30 and is married with 2 more children. She grew up and is a lovely young woman. The bio father so far has not changed any.

Her current husband has adopted her first son. They are a very, very loving and happy family. Believe me this young boy is way better off with his bio father out of his life. And even he knows it.

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