Getting over betrayal
I've posted about my SS (19 y) and how he's been a lot more docile since his friends left for college. He hasn't made friends so he spends all his time in the house trying to get dh's time and attention. With the new situation of SS being calmer but around a lot more, feelings have surfaced or deepened. One thing I'm feeling that doesn't sit well with me at all that I would like help with is the feeling of betrayal. I think I have good reason for reacting negatively to SS. He targeted me for years (and I still think he does in a more subverted way), and DH turned a blind eye to some of it. But I don't think it's healthy for me to feel this way about SS. Whenever they do things together I feel betrayed somehow, like they've been going out to breakfast together on Sundays while I'm at church, or they spent the day washing the car while I was at work and dh had a day off. These are perfectly normal activities between a father and son, but lately my reaction is to feel that DH is choosing my enemy over me. It feels like he's making memories with, wining and dining my bully.
Let me clarify that I have not and would never allow my feelings to dictate how they should interact with each other, and I know that SS is as important to DH as my BS is important to me. I do not expect DH to choose me over SS or vice-versa. But I wondered if anyone else had these feelings given that many of us have been the object of mistreatment by the SKs. If DH literally took out to dinner someone who has been tormenting me for years, it would be the end of our relationship period. But since this person is DH's child, I'm not supposed to feel this way? It's more complicated than that. I think this is surfacing because I'm realizing how much I had to put up with during the time SS was actively campaigning against me. And DH is opening up more about how he did choose to prop SS up even if it meant gaslighting me or pushing past my boundaries.
But what do I do with this feeling of betrayal? It's not like dh can turn his back on SS. So I'm saddled with these feelings that I can't resolve. It feels horrible to feel this way every weekend while SS is here and at other times during the week when they're getting together. I'm hoping that people have perspectives and thoughts to share.
I also want to add that SS has been ambivalent towards me. He's less hostile, and polite, but when dh is not around, he won't say much to me. But to be fair, I don't say much to him. He is constantly trying to get DH's attention and time. But whereas before, he was actively trying to exclude me and push me out, now I'm not sure if that component is there, though I still interpret that to be the case.
If a rabid dog bites you every time you try to pet it, stop
If a rabid dog bites you every time you try to pet it, stop trying to pet it.
Your SS is an asshole. He has mistreated you for years and your DH has ignored much of it the whole time. Self preservation in the face of a noxious enemy is not something to feel bad about feeling the way they have shown you how to feel by their treatment.
Daddy needs his nose scrubbed in the stinky stain that SS is and needs to be continually reminded of SS's past bullshit. SS has not changed. He is a user. He is emitting the scent that attracts daddy right now because SS has no other person he has access to take advantage of. It is also a big F-off to you. This kid knows what he is doing.
Stay confident, keep reality front and center for everyone including SS, daddy, and anyone and everyone else who is fillfully blind to the crap plied by this noxious failed family spawn.
Take care of you. Trying to avoid the feelings that come with the reality of what and who SS is and what and who DH is is not living your best life. This is not a minor child. This is ostensibly an adult. Treat him as one and make it clear to DH that you will not tolerate daddy babying his narc baby of a Skidult.
SS is an adult
not a child anymore. You can't have an adult SC living with you who '''' been ambivalent towards me. He's less hostile '''it just. Doesn't work. Time to have that hard talk with DH. SS attitude Must change or he has to go. If DH chooses SS you know where you stand and must do.
I would never be working , paying for SS living abd he has a attuned like that.
My SD30 has actively
My SD30 has actively campaigned, as you put it, against me all the time I've known her. It came to a head in 2022 when her hatred came spewing out of her mouth and she insulted me and accused me unjustly of all sorts of things. I still have to tolerate DH wining and dining her. However, I don't have to live with her and have told DH I don't want any relationship with her, going forward. So basically I haven't seen her for 3 yrs and have no plan to do so. I think in your position, I would give your DH an ultimatum and tell him you can't live with SS any longer - the lad is an adult, after all. If DH still wants to support him, maybe he can contribute towards him getting his own place. But live with him? Oh no no no.
Betrayal...
...really hurts. Your post touched my heart, tryingjusttrying...because I have felt very similar emotions. The statements below especially resonate with me:
*Whenever they do things together I feel betrayed somehow.
My situation is a bit different because I immediately said "No" to the nonsense and have never backed down. Yes, this did cause some friction, but DH knew that everything I said and pointed out was true. He has seen every communication I have had with OSD; on my end it was kind but firm, even when she was blasting me with an egregious degree of 'ugly'. Never have I ever experienced her degree of 'ugly'. What is interesting though, is that the majority of her ugliness came straight from her to him in the form of phone calls, personal conversation, texts, and emails, which were then passed on to me. I can't think of anything we don't talk about; sometimes he is less comfortable than I am, but he has become an effective communicator. He is ashamed of her behavior. He now understands that he and the rest of the family was/is a large part of the problem due to lack of standards and accountability. What one permits, one promotes.
Have you spoken to your husband about your feelings of betrayal? I did; I explained that when he would talk to her, etc. and act like everything was fine, he was giving her a green light to continue...because there were no consequences. Did he really act like things were fine? To be fair, no; he did stand up for me and tell her not only was she wrong, but what a good person I was and how I had never treated her poorly. Also, he had very little communication with her because of her treatment of me. He even told her that I felt betrayed when he spent time with her. She responded by sending me a message that was sick enough to curl my toes. I did not reply. She proceeded to send it two more times. So, it was not all in the heat of the moment, it was days later. After she had time for rational thoughts to take hold. Again, no reply from me. No way was I getting in the mud. I remember being so angry with my DH because he shared something so personal with someone who does not have the intelligence to even comprehend the complexity of the situation. Someone who would use those words to hurt me instead of reflecting on her own behavior and trying to make amends. My door has always been open should she choose to be reasonable and talk things through. She is not reasonable, nor is she interested.
*My reaction is to feel that DH is choosing my enemy over me. It feels like he's making memories with, wining and dining my bully.
Wining and dining the bully...I get that! It hurt so badly the couple of times he had lunch with her in the past. I felt like he was rewarding her for her nonsense.
*If DH literally took out to dinner someone who has been tormenting me for years, it would be the end of our relationship period.
Yes, yes it would! Why should it be any different because that 'someone' is family? It shouldn't!
I remember asking DH who would be there for him when he's old? Of course he said, "You." That was a bit of a lightbulb moment for him. We are in this together, through thick and thin. We needed to be each other's priority, not just in word but in deed too. He now understands that he can't ride the fence. One must stand against abusive behavior, because if one stays silent he/she is actually standing for it via their silence.
It is OSD's behavior, paired with the fact that she would just not quit, that caused him to go full no contact. He talked to her numerous times to no avail. It just kept getting worse and worse; she was swinging until he blocked her.
Is it hard on him? Yes, it is. He is ever hopeful, but I don't think she has the courage for self reflection.
My only words of wisdom for you are to keep talking. No matter how big or how small, if it bothers you...talk about it. I believe all things can be said with love, so be kind and gentle. I am so sorry you are going through this. Just know that you can learn and grow as a couple and be stronger than ever. Big cyber hugs and blessings to you.
highlighting this:
"ride the fence". YES! THIS!
I appreciate the confirmation
I appreciate the confirmation of my experience in your comments. It's such a fraught situation. Trudie, I can see that you were very proactive and clear about defining boundaries and making it clear to your dh that he has an interest in protecting you and siding with you. Your SD is so unreasonable, which makes that seem necessary. I am working on defining and enforcing boundaries. Part of that is to guard my own experience in the situation instaed of being bulldozed over as has been the case. However, I'm hoping that I can create a win-win situation in which SS and I both get unconditional love from dh, though in different ways. Am I thinking of it in the wrong way here? As deceptive, sneaky, and unreliable as SS is, I still think everyone deserves parents who love them unconditionally, warts and all, and I believe dh does this. He needs to set down stronger boundaries for sure, which I do not think is mutually exclusive to unconditional love. It's hard, sometimes even torturous to be around SS because of who he is objectively, and the reactions I have to him. But I would like to see if I can find a way to manage those reactions so that dh can still show support to SS who is very, very flawed, but still deserves the care and love of a parent.
If SS is still in college, would it be fair to try to force him to find his own place? For my own son, I would not do that. I feel that if I can make the "right" choices now, then in the future, I won't have any regrets.
Harry: SS doesn't have an attitude anymore "supposedly". In a sense, he's also disengaged as I have - he will pretend to get along, but I believe he still harbors resentment. I guess both of us are forced to tolerate each other. But how can he go to school and pay rent and the bills? I don't think I would feel okay putting him that position even if he makes me extremely uncomfortable.
I think if you want him out,
I think if you want him out, your DH will have to subsidize his living arrangements while he is in school. For my own kids, that happens as long as they are progressing toward independence. To me, that's a win/win. They get to live on their own (even if it's a dorm) but the terms are very clear. They have to be in school (could be trade school for your SS), and making adequate progress toward finishing. I actually really miss my kids, but i know that becoming independent adults with an education that will allow them to be self-supporting is best for them. If i were in your DH's position, it would be best for my marriage too.
Lately, dh has been talking
Lately, dh has been talking about SS living with us for a long time. I think he's trying to set it up so that my expectations will be very low. But in the past, dh also talkd about getting SS out of the house early on even if it meant subsidizing him. I'm going to start pushing for that. But I don't think that will happen before college is done, so I have to bide my time.
My BS lives on his own with my help, and he definitely wouldn't want to live with me again. He seems very content, and though his apartment is a little messy, he cooks, cleans, and pays his bills on time. I feel like that's healthy to want to be independent. SS is 19 and is still clingy with DH. I recognize that my feeling of betrayal is in part due to the fact that SS sets up a dynamic that pits him against me. There was never an us in his eyes, which adds to the feeling that if they're spending time together, it is at my expense. I know that's toxic, but again, there is the reality that he is still a dependent and deserves a home. If he was violent towards me, that would be a different story, but this low key stuff is just corrosive but not literally a danger.
"Deserve" and "entitled" are dangerous words with a manip
"Deserve" and "entitled" are dangerous words with a manipulative and game playing SKidult.
SKidults are entitled to and deserve nothing unless they meet standards of performance and standards of behavior set by the adultS. Not the capital S at the end of the work adultS. This is not the BPs decision to make without absolute and total agreement from the SParent partner.
Lippy manipulative bullshit gets them out on their ass. That kind of behavior has to be very firmly dealt with. if one partner does not have the spine for it, the other has to do it.
It is not easy, it can be emotionally difficult even for the partners/parents. However, if the (S)Kidult makes the error in judgment to do anything but behave respectfully and act reasonably they are entitled to and deserve nothing but a swift kick in the ass (figuratively) on their way out the door as the locksmith arrives to re-key the locks. As they gain clarity things can be reviewed and parental support can be adjusted accordingly. If... it is earned with behavior and performance.
IMHO of course.
I was one of those kids myself. I got the full meal deal mom and dad University scholarship for 2yrs which I did not take advantage of with performance. So, I got cut off. For the next 6yrs I was self sufficient. When I demonstrated focus and academic performance, my parents re-engaged on helping me as I completed my undergraduate degree. I graduated two weeks after my 30th birthday. They did cover 5 years of my college costs. I covered 6yrs of my long and meandering undergraduate career.
SS's behavior is "good" to me
SS's behavior is "good" to me on the surface, but I have evidence to the contrary. All of it will sound petty, but I have a pair of boots and one boot in the pair appear to have been sanded so that the it is muc lighter in color than the other and uneven. They're practically new, so the difference is stark bewteen them. DH and I noticed the discoloration at the same time and both scratched our heads. We were probably thinking the same thing, but never in a million years would dh admit even to himself that SS could have done that. I've suspected SS has messed with two pairs of sandals, a pair of glasses, other stuff. But none of it is 100% provable, and unless I have photo evidence and word from God on high, DH will tell me I'm craxy and that I'm being suspicious and paranoid. It's hard to tell if he really believes that or if he's just saying that. I've noticed that his inability to accept undesirable behaviors in SS is highly emotional, maybe pathological. He'll even invent new stories to cover up things SS has done.
My point is that SS is going to act "nice". But what if his behaviors are subversive and go under the radar? I just feel like there is no system of consequences that can address machiaveillian behaviors.
You should Web cam your whole home to keep SS and DH in line
and to call their bullshit with footage and audio so you can pin their ears back by baring their idiot asses for SS's crap and daddy's support for SS's crap with the self delusional excuses.
When they do their shit, they sit and get ass bared watching them doing what they do.
I would if I were you.
Please remember…
...acting nice and being nice are two different things. The damage to your shoes, etc. is really sneaky and childish. I understand why you don't want him in your home, because it would be difficult to ever relax. That is no way to live.
Saying it out loud makes it
Saying it out loud makes it clear to me how stressful it is that I live with a troll. I remember seeing a vlog in which a sociopath talks about how she "needed" to blow off steam once in a while by doing damage or causing harm in some way. But she said that she learned to redirect this "need" by doing little acts of destruction on a regular basis like breaking and entering without stealing anything. She said that it was better than letting it build up and doing something really crazy. I can't understand any of that, but I was wondering if SS has such impulses? It's not all of the time, but I do find objects messed with, and other acts of hostility towards me, and when I try to think of my BS or my nephews in SS's place, I don't think they could even intend that kind of thing to their enemies. I often question whether it's even happening, and DH is perfectly happy to sweep it under the rug and call me crazy. It does sound crazy that SS is sanding my shoes and scratching the lenses of my expensive sun glasses (I don't have a lot of nice things, but I splurged on a pair). Like why would anyone do that? Rags, you've suggested the camera before. My dh is in denial to the extent that he'll see video evidence and be able to distort what he's seeing. Whatever motivates him to bend of all of reality to make it so that SS is a good guy in every way is very powerful. But at the end of the day, I still will tolerate this stuff until he moves out, but I am definitely goinf to talk to dh about a plan. I'm not going to let dh think that SS can stay here until he's 30 even if it's a joke.
I think…
...you are very reasonable; I respect your viewpoint and your mission. It makes me ponder our situation; DH and I are both very reasonable too and the no contact status was a last resort because of the ongoing, escalating behavior. DH had set expectations and boundaries and OSD knew what would happen if she ignored them, how she responded was her choice. She does not accept me as her father's wife and actively tried to destroy our relationship. She was calling me filthy names before we ever met and came hard for my kids, who she has never met. She is also abusive to her father, to a much lesser degree. As for me, she made her intentions clear; she is sick and she is dangerous.
Agreed, all children deserve the love of their parents! Her father loves her and always will. Estrangement is never easy, I can attest to that. Should she choose a different path, things might be different.
Thanks Trudie. One big take
Thanks Trudie. One big take away from these experiences for me is to trust in your judgment and path. It can be so easy to have those hijacked by dysfunctional people in our lives. I have my own vision for how I would like things to go, and I'll see if it works or find out it was just another disneyfied construct that keeps me trapped.
Actually, now that you mention it, I feel SS dumps on dh too. SS lies to dh, steals from dh, and now that SS's friends are back from college, he skipped coming over this weekend. I'm perfectly happy to have him skip, but dh is visibly bummed when SS does that. I've seen it before - SS will try to lure dh away from me, dh will oblige, but as soon as SS's friends come calling to go out or play video games online, SS will literally drop everything and run to them. I have been pretty upset when in those moments, dh will come crawling back to me. But I also feel sorry for him.
I usually think of DH as being the middle man, but he has a stake in putting down boundaries too. My dh is pretty even keeled, and does not easily get perturbed, but i wonder to what extent having exposure to SS affects him.
Middleman…
...yes, I get this. DH feels like he's in the middle too. He put himself there by not insisting on standards of behavior or holding OSD accountable...long before I was ever in the picture. I am not the problem. OSD is the problem, just as DH was and his family is. The fact that his family scapegoats me indicates how much off the problem they are...'sanitizing', denial, finger pointing, blame, etc. Healthy, rational people simply do not do this.
YOU ARE NOT THE PROBLEM!!! Your SS's actions and the way your husband has reacted IS!!! He has put himself in the position of middleman. He is on the fence. I say this because he's interested in SS living with you. No way! He needs to get off the fence and stand with you! You deserve nothing less, and much, much more! Believe it. Require it.
Yep--you've got to trust your
Yep--you've got to trust your gut and your judgment. It's such a shame that your SS treats his father the way he does, and incredibly sad that your DH tolerates it. I wonder if he'll ever tire of it or if there will be one incident that sends him over the edge with his kid.
I once said to DH long before he crawled out of the fog he was in about his kids that it was upsetting to watch him tolerate getting crumbs and scraps--because that is all he was getting--and it was painful to watch his kids hurt his feelings and disrespect him. All the while, he would pretend that everything was normal and that Poopsie and Doopsie were the best kids ever.
While things have changed a lot, DH still talks to his kids regularly and visits them a few times a year, knowing that they publicly act like they don't even have a father. Me--I couldn't do that. But that's me.
No.
DH still talks to his kids regularly and visits them a few times a year, knowing that they publicly act like they don't even have a father. Me--I couldn't do that. But that's me.
Nor could I.
I haven't thought enough
I haven't thought enough about DH's experience as a victim since I've been more focused on my own feelings and reactions. But I do think that feeling mad on DH's behalf adds to my anger at SS. From what I read on the discussion board, it seems to me pretty common that dads are blind to their biokids' more noxious behaviors due to feeling protective or wanting their kids' love.
I find it hard to define SS's relationship to DH. At the same time SS called himself "daddy's boy" as a teen and far perfers/perferred DH to BM, SS will also drop DH like a hot potato if his friends come around. He steals from his dad to buy them all dinner, in addition to the times that he outright steals from him. But also, on the Thanksgivings SS is with us versus his mom, I've never seen him express gratitude for either of his parents. My family and I have a tradition of going around the table to say what we're grateful for at Thanksgiving. SS didn't have anything, he said, but when pushed, he said he was grateful for his friends. My BS and nephews all said either "family" or "mom and dad". Later, DH told me that SS expressed gratitude for him, and dh said, 'why didn't he say that at the table?!' Maybe SS "forgot", but how do you forget when literally everyone is expressing gratitude for family?
Another thing is that SS and his mom just have ways of doing things that do not compute, and leaves me confused. For example, they "punish" you if they're mad. In the past, if DH didn't give SS money or did something else that made him mad, SS would sometimes "punish" DH by skipping visitation or coming here super late. I think SS, like his mom, have narcissistic tendencies if not the actual disorder, and it seems they think that there is no worst punishment than withhold their presence. Haha. I'm like, knock yourself out. Punish dad all you want. That hasn't happened as much since SS' friends left for college. SS is a lot more fawning to the few people left in his circle, but we'll see how he is now that his friends are back. But I'm mentioning this because there's a fair amount of mistreatment that I think is just normal for SS and BM.
It's also not in my DH's personality to be sensitive. I really like that about him. He doesn't often take things personally, even when maybe he should! He's pretty secure in himself, which is very reassuring to a worry wart like me. But that's part of why he can take hit after hit from SS and not be bothered. He'll also give SS a million chances without judgment because he felt that his mom gave him a lot of leeway that helped him find his own way.
I have a hard time asking DH to choose sides. Maybe I should? I do believe that in a situation of bully and victim, by staying neutral you ARE choosing the bully. But this situation is so much more complicated because the aggressor is dh's child.
It is complicated....
I have a hard time asking DH to choose sides. Maybe I should? I do believe that in a situation of bully and victim, by staying neutral you ARE choosing the bully. But this situation is so much more complicated because the aggressor is dh's child.
You are right, staying neutral is choosing the bully. People may not even like or agree with the bully, but do not want to make waves. There are many possible reasons why: Maybe the bully is in a position of power? Maybe they fear retaliation? Etc. The why doesn't matter, sometimes you have to make waves. My motto has long been, "Stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone." I believe there is a trickle down effect, meaning people will follow. (Conversely, some people will also follow the bully. Sadly, there are a lot of sheep.)
I never told my husband that he had to choose between myself and OSD. He decided that he needed to say "Yes" to the wife he loves and has built a beautiful life with, and say "No" to his dysfunctional daughter. The daughter who has given him grief and heartache for over 20 years. The daughter who hates his wife even though she does not know her. The daughter who set out to get rid of his wife. The daughter who set out to destroy his marriage. He was done with her nonsense and he knew he deserved happiness. Is it unfortunate? Yes. I have a big heart and was prepared to love OSD, even though I knew about her issues. She choose hatred. She made her bed. Now she deals with the consequences.
Someone being a victim in the past does not justify them
Someone being a victim in the past does not justify them victimizing you.
Do not let his past crap distract you from the fact that he has served you up as victim to both him and his spawn.
Stop making excuses for your DH and his failed family semen demon.
DH's willful and committed delusions regarding the SKidult is proof of what and wh DH is. Believe him. He is far more interested in victimizing you and sacrificing you to him and his spawn than he is in being your equity life partner.
Get the cameras. Make him watch the crap. Over, and over, and over again. Grill him on how he could possibly spin what is clear and reviewable.
I am infuriated for you. Shake y9ourself out of this shit show.
Please.
What about this noxious Skidult's behavior deserves love?
Even from a parent.
At some point, even a person's kids, have to earn love with behavioral performance. Of course minor children should have the love of their parents. For Kidults, that love is not a given, it is earned.
IMHO of course.
This hurts. DH should "have
This hurts. DH should "have your back" and he doesn't. As for DH doing things with his son when you are at work, at church, or otherwise busy, I would work on letting that go. If DH prioritizing his adult son when you are home, that's another story, and I would confront that. The deeper issue is that he rewards SS for his all around bad behavior and his bad behavior toward you when he should instead be confronting it. But now he is talking of having SS live with you all for a longer period of time? That is a hard no.
Marriages can be difficult, but they should not be about chronic suffering. It sounds like there is a lot that is unspoken in your home. You deserve to be heard and seen.
Thanks MorningMia. I've lived
Thanks MorningMia. I've lived with this for years and my dh convinced me that if I noticed SS's bad behaviors, then I'm mean, I'm always focused on what he does bad, never the good. I'm being a bad stepmom and should be ashamed. I'm only just realizing how manipulative it is. DH has always been more mad at the adults who point out SS's bad behaviors than he is at SS's behaviors. DH and BM used to be called into the Middle School's principle's often multiple times a month because SS was bullying, defying the teachers, and long story, brought in and passed around porn to his 13 year old peers! Dh did talk to SS, but SS would just lie. The lies weren't even that realistic, but all dh and bm needed was the tiniest reason to exonerate SS, and move on. Usually, all SS had to do was tell his parents that someone else instigated it and he just followed. The person dh reserved most of his anger for was the principle. He used to bitterly complain about her and the others who were "against" SS and who were so biased and labeled SS. a "bad kid", etc. At the time, I didn't know either of them that well, so I just thought Dh was being a good dad and defending SS. But it has not served SS at all for his behavior to go unchecked. How do you correct and redirect a kid/teen if you don't even acknowledge that they did anything wrong? So everything goes. But I'm much more clear about what is going on now, and I know I cannot rely on dh to be fair and accurate when it comes to SS. I'm not sure exactly how things will go, but at least I have stopped beating myself up. I'm feeling a lot more confident in my own perspective.
But yeah, I want to let it go how the two spend time when I'm not around. As I said, since SS tries to push me out and exclude me, it feels like dh is betraying me when he does go off into the sunset with SS. But that's what I'm trying to work on. They are father and son after all.
I posted about gaslighting
I posted about gaslighting somewhere in here recently. Your DH has been gaslighting you. My DH did the same with me in the early days. I was mean. I hated his kids. I was always looking for the worst in them. I responded, "I don't have to look for it. It's right in front of my face." I cannot back down from the truth, and those interactions almost led to divorce. Through counseling and commitment, things changed drastically in our marriage. Also, DH "had" to experience the direct sting from his kids to him as well. He grew embarrassed of their behavior and he tired of the wailing denials when he confronted them.
I hope things clear up for you.
Denial….
If your husband can deflect and blame SS's behavior on someone else then he doesn't have to admit and resolve what is really going on. Of course he will take issue with the person calling out the bad behavior, they are telling him something he doesn't want to hear or accept. SS lying and blaming someone else helps your husband to "sanitize" the situation, as you mentioned previously. That term is so fitting in step life; it is another form of denial.
Is he gaslighting you much? Not a question BTW.
Stop serving yourself up as their Charcuterie snack tray of genetic dysfunction while your SO gaslights you into thinking that you are the problem.
Hint: You are not the problem.
Yes!
Great point, everyone deserves to be heard and seen! Especially regarding things that affect you directly, both personally and in the home. Home should be our sanctuary...if it is not, that's a problem.
I'll throw a caveate in on "everyone deserves..."
Only if they are respectful and reasonable. Particularly kidults. They get nothing they do not earn once they are adults. Being heard and seen included.
IMHO of course.
Even pre adults in their mid to later teens. I cannot imagine the hell that would have rained down on us if we had been ill behaved disrespectful spawn to our parents. It would not have been pretty had we pulled any of the crap so many coddled failed family progeny apparently perpetrate against their parents and their parent's partner.
Distrespecting our mothe's DH or our father's DW would have been far more brutal in consequence than the hell that would have resulted had we disrespected either of our parents.
Adult semen demons cannot be tolerated when they choose to behave other than reasonably and respectfully. Absolutely home and family should be a sanctuary. However, an ill behaved, disrespectful, unreasonable family member can be a threat to that sanctuary for everyone else in the family. Those need to be dealt with as any enemy at the gate or invader should be dealt with.
Again, IMHO of course.
Agreed!
Yes, only if they are respectful and reasonable! How on earth did I miss this?!
Disrespect, in any way, shape, or form would have earned me a beating. While I will NEVER condone violence, I do condone the implementation of standards, accountability, and consequences.
I totally get your sentiment,
I totally get your sentiment, Rags. But can I make a distinction? I do not believe that kids have to earn love and a basic respect. Everyone has an inviolable dignity in my eyes (this comes in part from my religious point of view). But I do believe that you can get called out for behaviors and actions. A big part of DH's hyper defensiveness and sensitivity is that he confuses the two. Every time I want to call out the smallest to the biggest behaviors (even putting down the toilet seat), DH construes that as calling out and condemning SS as a whole. I think psychologists call this "splitting". You're either all bad or all good. Developmental psychology says that a child goes through a period of "constellating" around toddlerhood or young childhood wherein they learn to "constellate" and develop the capacity to hold grays in people, even their parents. Strangely, parents being human can do both good and bad (hopefully, mostly good). Perhaps dh is guilty of this infantile defense mechanism or is defending that dynamic in SS. But whatever is the case, it is frustrating to deal with and I think does not serve SS. No one is perfect, and no one needs to be. But by idealizing SS, you are basically telling him that he can't be accepted for his genuine, flawed self.
This is why I am about behaviors and instant call out of
This is why I am bout behaviors and instant call out of unacceptable behaviors. Behaviors are observable without any need to make a blanket judgment on the person perpetrating them. The behavior is unacceptable and the perpetrator can be confronted on the behavior. So confront. Both the SKidult and the coddling, gaslighting daddy for their repeated assault on your peace and living your best life.
Unless..... that person is proven to maintain the unacceptable choices repeatedly. Then, the person is a write off because they choose to continue perpetrating the unacceptable disrespecful behaviors.
I'm not sure how a viable mature adult decides that pointing out that a kidult does not put the toilet seat down is a comprehensive condemnation of that kidult.
It is considerably evident that your SO has deep seated baggage that he is for whatever reason incapable of keeping from detracting from you living your best life. Which as your SO, is his duty to protect and nurture.
While I understand the spiritual and faith considerations that you have, I too have faith and am a spiritual person, a core of my belief is that the greatest divin gift granted to human kind is the gift of intellect. With that gift comes the duty to use it. Analyze. Assess, and resolve problems.
Just my thoughts of course.
Take care of you.
Excactly this: "I don't have
Excactly this: "I don't have to look for it. It's right in front of my face."
That's so refreshing to hear that you doubled down rather than react with guilt and back off which is what I've been doing. I've spent 8 years believing that it was more of a problem by pointing out [trying to find the right word...] *facts* than the actual facts themselves. I've felt horrible about thinking that SS was doing underhanded things even though he was. Even when I could accept these facts, I've wasted so much time and energy looking for evidence to "prove" said facts because I kept getting gaslit which caused me to doubt myself, which lead me to try and find justification for my perceptions.
And all DH had to do was accept actual fact, and all of this wasted energy could be avoided. I'm sad. But I'm so glad I found this site to help me come to awareness about these things.
This is abuse
DH and SS are mental abuseing you. When DH divorce his wife his ''happy family'' changed forever. His loyalty change from his first family to you when he married you. He could remain single and play ''happy family''. But he chooses to remarry, and do everything that intails. Play lover to his DS as his wife looks on is not fair and is abuse to her.
DS must go. That the only way out of this. DH started this ''love story''with DS. and there's no way out of this with SS living with you.
You did not have any input in.creating this mess. You do have input in getting out of it. You must take a stand . Telling DH if he doesn't want to have a second fail marriage. He must do something.
Thank you all so much for
Thank you all so much for your thoughts and support. I'm really grateful to this community. I don't know you in real life and vice versa, but your insights, experience, advice, and tough love have helped me a lot. I have a lot to think about. I'm in it for the long haul with DH, but I know it's going to be a lot more work to get to where we want to be, especially in regards to how we handle "thirds". I can already tell that I react differently to the things going on at home, and that's causing dh and ss to have to acommodate.