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TrueNorth77's picture

Ok we have hit absolute rock bottom with SD14 and you guys always have great ideas so we need advice, stat!

SD is with us now. She's been here for maybe an hour and 1/2 and it is an absolute nightmare. Crazy made her come here again- this is the first time since SD called the police on DH last time. I did not want her here, DH naively thought there was hope since Crazy has kicked her out twice since then and SD always calls him crying. 
We sat her down to talk things over and go over rules and she met it with snark, disrespect, eye rolling, and straight up refusal to follow any rules. DH isn't her dad,she has "2 parents" (BM and her bf). She kept snarkily telling him "he couldn't parent her", then She then came after me (she has ALWAYS been respectful to me") and said DH cares more about his "50yr old wife than her" (I'm not 50). I told her she will not talk about me like that and she said I'm not her parent. I said no but I own this house. She said no I don't, DH's mom paid for it. Ha! I said no my X amount salary paid for it and if you talk to me like this I will take everything you own, starting with your phone. DH tried to take it but she wouldn't give it to him. She went to her room and he followed, I grabbed the drill and started to take the door off but DH stopped me. He tried to talk to her but got nowhere, it ended in yelling. 

So, DH has been looking for somewhere to send her. She has made it clear she will not listen, follow rules, and will be as disrespectful as she wants. She is unmanageable, we don't trust her, she doesn't want to be here, and she has "attempted suicide" without attempting suicide multiple times. 

What do you think our options are? DH was looking at group homes, is that a thing? Anything through the courts? Mental health places are tricky and she hasn't made suicidal statements today so we can't call the police for a hold. I WFH and she would be here with me tomorrow- DH has said he will take off work tomorrow to find somewhere for her to go. Her staying here with me daily is not something I'm ok with. DH is going to file something with the courts for a custody change but for now we are stuck. 

Oh, and SD called Crazy during all of this and said we were going to send her somewhere Crazy just laughed and then sent DH a message saying she's "out of town and will be for a while" and he needs to be a father and "listen to his daughter and help her through this time", and that all of this happened because SD said something petty about his wife's age and every time his wife "cries" he puts her first and that's not right. OMG this f'ng woman. 

But for real, ideas welcome. 

Edit; I can't believe I forgot to put this part in! When we were talking with SD, she was like "idk why we have to talk about rules, I'm not following them". I said, last time you were here you called the police on your dad and tried to get him arrested - that is a huge deal." She said, "I prayed he would get arrested, I prayed and prayed". She just kept saying it over and over, at least 10x. I said he could have gone to jail, that is awful! She said "I prayed that he would go to jail". I almost smacked her, I swear. What an absolutely awful girl. DH and I don't even recognize her. 


SMto3's picture

Disconnect her phone service....wait for her to come out of the room, take the phone away. H can manage with her while you WFH, and then not sure from there but I wouldn't have let her in my home after all of her nastiness. 

TrueNorth77's picture

Crazy pays for her phone... DH pays for SS's...

Felicity0224's picture

I agree, if y'all pay for the phone and have the access to do it, shut it off. If not, at least take whatever phone chargers she has away. Most kids these days run around on 10% battery in my experience, so it won't be long before her phone dies.

Also, if you can do it without engaging with her physically, go ahead and take the door off the hinges. Whatever you do, do not go within 6 feet of her or raise your voices. Even if you're being recorded, you already know this child will lie and twist things to make herself look like a victim.

In my experience, the only option to send a kid away is an inpatient treatment center. They may decline to hold her if they determine she isn't actually a threat to herself or anyone else. Being a hysterical brat who tells lies for attention isn't going to be enough. And those correctional/military schools are extremely expensive and notoriously abusive so I wouldn't consider that an option either.

I'm sorry; it's a tough situation to be in. Your husband is between a rock and a hard place, it's untenable to have her at home, but there's nowhere for her to go if her mom won't take her...

Aniki-Moderator's picture

Google "year round places for troubled teens". 

I'm so sorry you and your DH are dealing with this caca. {{hugs}}

CastleJJ's picture

I'm a social worker and have been through this with a previous client. Her grandparents had custody and the situation grew so extreme due to her behavior, they had to relinquish her into state custody. Nothing they did worked. Google "Immediate Placement for Troubled/Behavioral Teens" and your city/state. That is a place to start. Contact your local community mental health agency and ask for resources (they will have plenty). 

DH needs to ensure he has documentation from every "suicide attempt" (i.e. medical records, text messages, police reports, etc.) and all documentation of her behavior toward you both over the last few months. He needs to file an emergency motion to relinquish custody and provide that evidence. The courts can also involuntarily place her in a group home or behavioral health setting if neither parent can handle it. 

Isn't DH the NCP? If so, he is not obligated to take SD. He can turn down each and every parenting time. If BM is out of town, she needs to find alternative placement for her during vacation. If BM keeps kicking her out and SD reaches out, call CPS and the police for a welfare check. Let the police know that you cannot take her due to hostility and abuse toward you both. Let them and BM figure it out. SD being in your home is dangerous and needs to be avoided at all costs. This isn't just teenage angst. She needs serious intervention either for mental health or serious behavioral issues. 

TrueNorth77's picture

Thank you! DH and Crazy have 50/50 custody so he is a CP and can't turn down supervision. That alone complicates this so much more, especially since Crazy will never agree with him on a decision just to be difficult.. He is going to be calling inpatient and outpatient programs tomorrow but I told him to call the local community mental health agency to ask for resources first. 
Could he file for an emergency motion to relinquish custody based on Sd's behavior and statements? What would happen I wonder, they would guve Crazy custody? I can't believe I forgot to say that I told SD of course we needed to discuss things since she called the police on DH and made false accusations and almost got him arrested. She said "I prayed he would get arrested. I prayed and prayed". She said it at least 10 times, to our faces. Evil little monster.

CastleJJ's picture

Even in 50/50 situations, one parent is usually primary and the other is secondary. The secondary NCP can refuse any/all visitation. Check your order. You can file an ex-parte motion, for emergency situations where danger is imminent. I am not sure if this would classify as "dangerous" in the eyes of the court. Do you have an attorney that you could request a consult with to review the details and discuss options? Even if they could tell you what to do while you and DH do the legwork, it would be beneficial. 

If DH was granted the ability to relinquish his custody, they would likely give BM custody. If BM refuses custody, then they would look at state custody. Either way, if DH was granted to relinquish his custody, DH could then file a restraining order against Crazy (and possibly SD) to prevent her from trying to pawn SD off. 

If DH decides to attempt any of these steps, there is no coming back from this. But, I believe there is already no coming back from this. SD is beyond saving and for both of your safety, these steps need to occur. In my client situation, those grandparents did EVERYTHING possible (inpatient psych, outpatient psych, intense counseling, calls to police to "scare straight," taking away everything, 24/7 monitoring, etc.) but there was no saving that kid. Nothing they did helped. She was completely unhinged.

Did SD make those comments in front of the cameras? Again, document and save everything. You never know what piece of evidence could help you fight this most. 

TrueNorth77's picture

I recorded the entire conversation. We were outside sitting on the deck (I'm not sure why since the cameras aren't out there, but I was like no sir, and recorded it all). I just verified and they have joint legal custody where neither is superior, so no NCP. 

DH is on his way to file papers for a custody change as we speak. I really hope he just immediately files right there, because this needs to be done. I lost my sh*t on him yesterday for dragging his feet and allowing this situation to even happen- I understood why he was going to take the route of just filing for a change in child support (taking SS18 off), which would instigate a review and bring to light that SD hasn't been here, which he was going to freely write on the paperwork and explain the circumstances. This would also assign a GAL and get the ball rolling that way, without DH having to file for a custody change. But the paperwork has been sitting on the counter for over a month and he hasn't filled it out, and now here we are. He admitted he waited too long and had hoped the situation would somehow just fix itself, which it shockingly did not.... 

Anyway, he is reluctant to call an attorney because of the cost, and there have been so many things happening that he is starting to worry about getting into a mountain of debt.

CastleJJ's picture

CS is separate from custody so even if DH filed to have CS reviewed and it was evident SD wasn't there, it would bare no impact of custody. If you ask about custody during a CS hearing, the judge will tell you it's the wrong venue. You HAVE to file for custody modification separately to change the custody arrangement. 

Good for you for unleashing on DH. How in the hell did he just think this would resolve itself, after all you have been through with SD? I would be giving him ultimatums to kick his ass into gear. This has been going on too long and DH doesn't have the kahoonas to discipline SD as swiftly and firmly as she needs, consistently, to remedy this problem. DH is too soft and caves too often, out of hope, to hold merit. Without total disownment and intense mental/behavioral health intervention, this situation will not resolve itself. 

Yesterdays's picture

He kind of sounds like my husband... Avoidant at all cost... Make excuses and just hoping and wishing for the best. It's like they expect things will magically change into being more positive without any change or intervention. They don't want to do any work and avoid it at all costs. Whether it's denial or whatever other reason. Rose coloured glasses. Etc

I think it's wishful thinking to not want to hire an attorney. He says it costs too much money. That's baloney because this $hit is literally affecting everyones life negatively right now and something needs to be done. Imo he needs to wake the heck up and DO something and a lawyer fits the bill.

They'll be able to offer you invaluable information on what to do in this complicated situation. 

Winterglow's picture

The longer he sits on his thumbs an lets things drag on, the more expensive this will get.

TrueNorth77's picture

And it's funny you wrote this, because DH just called me and told me this exact thing- He has been calling everyone at the Courthouse and they told him this same exact thing: "CS is separate from custody so even if DH filed to have CS reviewed and it was evident SD wasn't there, it would bare no impact of custody. If you ask about custody during a CS hearing, the judge will tell you it's the wrong venue. You HAVE to file for custody modification separately to change the custody arrangement."

He is filing for an emergency custody change tomorrow, he got the paperwork today. Which he's rightfully nervous about- I am too, and I feel for him. This is a huge step that nobody WANTS to have happen. But we know deep down that nothing is going to happen to change the circumstances. He did learn also that he can technically refuse his placement period and it's not illegal to do so (he thought he could be charged for it). However, that wouldn't stop Crazy from dropping SD off at our doorstep and claiming it's our placement period. The only way to prevent that is for a custody change. They told him a GAL will be assigned once that gets processed, and he will have to go through mediation with Crazy. So by Emergency, they mean a very slow drawn-out process.....

At least he is finally DOING something. He is the king of procrastination. Thinking something will just happen on its own. That's not how this works! And in the meantime, I am the one stuck here with this demon. She just told me she's leaving. Apparently she is going to get her hours for her job (she got her old job back that she quit). DH was going to come home and tell her we haven't been able to find a place for her to go so far, so if she has a friend's house she wants to go to, go for it. 

Rags's picture

If BM can dump the kid so can DH. 50/50 can still include one parent stipulated as the CP.   I think I would play the "Oh, I thought BM was the dsignated CP." card.

However, even in a 50/50 custody setup, one parent may still be designated as the “custodial parent” or “primary custodial parent” for legal or administrative purposes. This is often necessary for school enrollment, medical decisions, or situations requiring a single point of contact.Oct 19, 2023  

dragonfly878's picture

Call DCF? Maybe tell them you're stuck and would like the state to step in and help (have her removed and placed into a facility) idk much about DCF but if you're calling asking for help- they must have resources at their fingertips and can see you are open and willing for a third party to step in. 

Cover1W's picture

Oh no!  I would be very careful with her and trying to take physical things away. I'm guessing she'll react violently. Make sure that if you do, it's in a place where the cameras are.

You should at this point 100% disengage. Support your DH out of her earshot because it's clear she's also going to be coming after you.

I don't think you can commit her without BM's approval. Can you both instead, sit her down again, with the cameras, and tell her if she refuses to follow the basic household rules, so be it. You will both not help with anything. She does her own cooking, laundry and clean up. There will be no more discussions with her. She has to figure out her transportation to/from your home and make sure she can get to BMs (you'll drive her but you will not coordinate with BM and the time must work for you two as well, like any adult would do). You will not be helping her any longer (if she still trusts you this may be a blow but there are consequences to her behavior). She thinks she's so independent - then give it to her.  Meanwhile yes, DH starts the custody changes.

TrueNorth77's picture

DH has also told me not to try and take her phone. I told him then she better not come at me, because I won't let a kid disrespect me and run the show. I would do everything in front of cameras and if she touched me it would be recorded. I do plan to ignore her. 

Last night DH was crying and decided he wanted to try a different approach so he can feel he did all he can. He went to talk to her and reminded her of how we care, all we have done to show we care. He mostly was talking at her, she didn't say anything. He had taken her door off and turned the power to her room off after she had sent him a bunch of goading disrespectful texts saying "I thought you were taking me somewhere? My bags are packed", and "you were just bluffing", and then she was disrespectful to his face also. But he felt bad and turned her power back on. Eyeroll. Then she came downstairs and announced she was going to get food with a friend and just left without asking. I told him I didn't think turning it back on hours later was really setting a good example. He agreed but said we are on a shortened timeline because she will probably be gone today or tomorrow and he's trying to make progress. I honestly don't know what the right thing so whatever. We agreed that if we can't find somewhere for her to go today he will tell her she can go to a friends or wherever if she has a place to go. 

Currently DH is filing for a custody change. 

Harry's picture

Are not alone with SD.   DH is the fool for taking SD in the first place, he's a fool thinking he had any control over SD.  Now it's his problem.   Just make plans for a place to go if DH is going to leave her with you.  
'As DH said he going to work, you are out of the house before him.  Pack a bag with yours needs so you can leave fast 

notsurehowtodeal's picture

You need to back way off on getting involved in anything physical with this girl - honestly, you should not be directly involved with her at all. I get wanting to take her door off, but imagine how she could spin that to the authorities. Your DH was a fool to let her visit and there is no way that you should stay alone with her at all. (I wrote that before reading that Harry used the exact same word...) I know you want to help your DH, but you must protect yourself because it sounds like she is coming for you next.
I know you have said they have 50/50 - but often even with 50/50 one parent is designated as custodial, have you double checked the paperwork?

TrueNorth77's picture

I double-checked today, they have joint custody with neither having superior authority. And DH is currently filing for a change of custody, so I am alone with SD...although she is sleeping, which we knew. 

I am also really mad that it came to this and I went off on DH before she came here. I told him she should not come here before a discussion was had with her about her calling the police on him. DH said I was just hoping things would go off the rails during that discussion so she would never come. I'm like what a shitty thing to say- That's not what I'm hoping, I just think it's asinine to bring her here without talking that through first. That was a huge deal and you are putting both of us in a bad situation. And guess what- if he HAD done that, he would have heard her say how she PRAYED he had gone to jail, and all of the other insane things that came out of her mouth, and she never would have walked through these doors, and we would not be in this situation trying to figure out what to do with her. 

I am ignoring her from here on out- I mentioned above that if we can't find a place for her today, DH is going to tell her she can go to a friend's house, because DH can't keep taking off work and I will not be here alone with her.  

notsurehowtodeal's picture

Good for you for explaining to him just how badly he handled the decision as far as her returning to the house. I don't know how you have kept from really going off on him before now. Please look out for yourself.

Rags's picture

Particularly when they are a danger to themselves and any people of quality in the mix. Though these kids are far more often than not, toxic themselves and of dubious qualityu at best

Ship her off to experts who will both get her the help she needs, and hold her accountable to the point of her being a sobbing puddle of protoplasm when she pulls her bullshit.

Below are a few of a number of options to deal with ill behaved teen girls.  There are also co-ed and boy versions.  I would go with the all girls and only girls option with this POS SKid.

Though not  behaviorally motivated, my dad, me, my brother, and my SKid are products of Military Boarding School experiences.  All of us were either geographic/education or focus related.  None of us were in any trouble or a toxic influence on our familily.

I would say your SD is far beyond salvage for a Military School experience and would be hard pressed to get accepted.  She is in despirate need of a theraputic highly discipline focused isolated remote boarding school experience. Somewhere that will result in some very long cold or hot very thirsty miserable days and nights if she decides to run. I would not allow her in my life if I were you. At least not physically present in my life. Ship her ass off and nail BM for a shit pile of CS.  No need to bear the financial responsibility for BM's shit example and shit parenting solely from your marital income.

Rumplestiltskin's picture

We looked at those schools for SO's nieces. Eventually they went back to their BM and are on track to have future careers as HCBMs. 

AgedOut's picture

if she's going to cry "suicide" call for help. Even if you're 99.99% sure it's a manipulative lie, call and have her taken for a mental health hold? 

AgedOut's picture

and in my humble opinion Crazy just wanted a place to stick her so she could go on her trip. She'll be back for her as soon as her fun time is over. Crazy set this up for you to fail.

Stay away from her, don't cater to her, do not be alone with her

until then, treat every suicide threat as real because that one time you don't could be fatal. 

TrueNorth77's picture

The problem is she hasn't made any suicidal threats while here, and they will only hold her if she has. So they would just send her on her way. It's very hard to get them to hold her. That's why that avenue is soo difficult...

And I 100% agree- Crazy wants a break, SD even said as much, so she forced her here and she is laughing with SD that DH is trying to send her somewhere. And sending repeated messages about how he should "do something with her" and be a parent and yadda yadda, knowing that SD hates him, yet acting as if SD is being a perfectly rational normal child that DH should be watching movies with. It's unbelievable. DH said this all feels very odd, SD just keeps sending him goading texts and saying things trying to get under his skin, like she WANTS him to lose his cool and do something so she can call the police again. 

Yesterdays's picture

she is laughing with SD that DH is trying to send her somewhere. And sending repeated messages about how he should "do something with her" and be a parent and yadda yadda, knowing that SD hates him, yet acting as if SD is being a perfectly rational normal child that DH should be watching movies with

Bm is working both sides.. To SD she is joking around and poking at Dh a bit, trying to play her dad as the bad guy then all of the sudden she claims she is heading out of town.. Sends SD over and then starts a narrative of egging Dh on to essentially take action of her kid... So HE can do all the dirty work and SHE looks innocent like the problem is only at her dads house...

She SEEMS so smart with her undercover  circus antics? 

In the end if SD needs help I would try to get it for her despite whatever the heck is going on with bio mom. Whatever she's trying to pull.. That doesn't matter so much. 

My first move would be finding an excellent lawyer to determine what steps are needed to get this kid help and what to do elsewhere from a legal standpoint with regards to custody in the meantime 



TrueNorth77's picture

Except the part about Crazy being smart. lol. I am going to post an update. It has been a day! 

Rumplestiltskin's picture

Who cares who pays for the phone, she is in your house and you guys are responsible for her. How do you know she won't use it to hurt herself (buy drugs to OD/call an adult boyfriend to pick her up so she can run away, etc.)

When SO's brother's kids were dropped off by both parents to SO and I, there were 2 and they were a lot like your SD. The options we looked into included something called a Therapeutic Boarding School. If you Google that term, you can see which ones are closest (or farthest lol) to your location. No way in hell can you live with this little monster. Also, no way she grows up to be anything other than a HCBM if she doesn't get under control. 

TrueNorth77's picture

We can't cut off the service because it's not under our name- I told DH to take the phone, but SD will not voluntarily give it to him, meaning he would have to physically take it from her, which will result in an altercation. He is very afraid to do that given the last time she called the police and although nothing came of it, SD lied and tried to get him arrested. If it got physical, he does not believe he would be so lucky. I don't blame him honestly, but it irritates me to no end that she wins because of that. He did cut her power, but then she walked out of the house and went to get food with a friend, and I'm sure charged her phone while doing that. Then DH had a moment of weakness where he wanted to try a different approach and turned the power to her room back on...sigh. I just have to back off from this as it drives me nuts and I know he is doing the best he can with a shit sandwich. 

The reason he was so upset was he watched her walk up the stairs and just had a vision of how she would struggle the rest of her life and he doesn't want that for her. I told him he can't change her victim mentality and need to have a story and attention. Hopefully she outgrows that and the PAS, but he can't help her change the absolute shit person she has become. She is literally Crazy's twin and it is so heartbreaking and gross to see. 

Rumplestiltskin's picture

I can't imagine being responsible for a teen that is conpletely out of control. That's exactly how my SO's nieces were. I would have broken up with him if he had moved them in. Some things can't be helped but if the parent (or uncle in this case) is too afraid to stand up to them, they will run the household and put you at risk for legal problems via false allegations (these 2 lovelies accused their father of rape and my SO of molestation), and also puts your safety at risk. Not only could SD get violent but she could expose you to violent or thieving friends of hers. 

Rags's picture

Oh you can cut off service. A hammer will do that very effectively. Or, drip in the toilet, take a dump on it, and let is simmer until she finds it. Then she can deal with it.

Parents need to grow a spine and rain the 9 circles of hell down on this kid.  Record everything video and audio, and when she starts her shit, have her hauled off in cuffs for a long stay in Juvenile hall where the truly hard corps kids will have her crying like a baby and recovering from any number of bruises, etc....

Write this kid off. That is what she wants.

Felicity0224's picture

Does she have a key to BM's? He could drop her off there. Let BM know that SD is home and it's her choice to come home or not. I could be wrong, but I don't think anyone would balk at a 14 year old being left at their home alone. I realize it's not an ideal solution, but really at this point your DH only has bad options to choose from. 

TrueNorth77's picture


TrueNorth77's picture

There is no age in our state for being home alone. Here's the thing- Crazy IS HOME. She just doesn't want SD there. She's an f'ng liar. I would bet if SD stayed at a friends that Crazy would let her come home in a day. I don't think DH would drop her off there though and I'm not sure if that would reflect well on him given her suicidal talk recently and how she "attempted suicide" on Friday by cutting her throat with a knife, when there is not a mark on her and zero cuts. So she did not attempt suicide. She may have grabbed a knife and said she tried for dramatic effect, but she didn't try. Either way, if he just dumped her off that probably wouldn't look good when they go to court...

Felicity0224's picture

She really is the worst mother. I think the fact that she's home just proves that she is also trying to set up your DH for an altercation that would result in his arrest. She had to know what state of mind SD was in when she sent her to your house - why intentionally send your kid somewhere you KNOW there will be conflict unless you're actually hoping for conflict?

CastleJJ's picture

DH shouldn't care "what this looks like to the courts." The goal is to lose custody, not gain it, so him trying to save face at this point is irrelevant. He needs to message BM letting her know that "DH is aware that BM lied about being out of town and BM is indeed home and that he will be dropping SD off to her at x time due to behavioral issues and threats against him." He also needs to let her know that he will not be taking additional visitation going forward due to SD's threats, so if BM intends to leave for travel, she will need to find an alternative location for SD to stay. 

Yesterdays's picture

Op perhaps you can set up communication to go through our family wizard or something like that.. 

TrueNorth77's picture

We have had that for 8 years, we have her blocked on everything else. She would be texting and calling DH nonstop if he communicated through ordinary means (which is why he did OFW). Crazy used to give DH's phone # to her bf's and they would text him nonstop, it was insane. 

TrueNorth77's picture

Child Support is still to be determined, and this Judge has proven to not just go strictly by the % deemed by the state. DH ended up paying less than what he typically would due to the Judge going rogue. He takes all things into consideration. If DH just dumps SD off and shows no care, the Judge is probably going to show no sympathy when it comes to determining child support. If it looks like it's PAS (which it is) and DH has done all he can to help SD, tried his best and treated her with care, tried to get her help, etc, while Crazy has done nothing but continue her campaign of alienation, it's probably going to go much better for him. It wasn't his fault, so why would he be paying the max? He definitely isn't trying to get more custody, but if there's a chance he could pay less, he wants that...

ItsGrowingOld's picture

Your SD sounds like my DH's youngest daughter (now 25) when she was your SD's age.  She called the cops on DH when she was 12 becasue, gasp!, he was trying to parent her by physcially taking her cell phone from her.  The little sh*t was taking photo's of our home and of me and sending them to her PASing mom and stepdad.  I said NO MORE!!  I will not tolerate this behaviour in my home.  I still shudder when I think about the hell DH's daughters and their mom and stepdad put me through. 

Some stepkids don't outgrow their meanness.  Take that as a precautionary warning.

My only suggestion to you is protect yourself, your sanity, your peace and your property. 

Stay out of this psychotic mess.  Let your DH handle all this B/S outside of your home.

Good luck.

TrueNorth77's picture

I admit I do hold out a small hope, Mostly for DH's sake (and SD's, as I don't want her to be a miserable nasty human) that SD will turn around as she gets older, but I also wouldn't place any bets over $1 on it. 

Kids calling the cops on their parents for taking their phones is nothing but AUDACITY to me. Can you imagine?? Talk about entitlement. And having the nerve to not give them to your parent. I could not believe SD when she wouldn't hand it over. 

I am basically acting like SD doesn't exist. I don't have it in me to even be polite.