Opinion on finances and child support
I realize child support is somethign the courts deem necessary. We have a 50/50 situtation, BM works at a restaurant and has claimed minimal income (tips not being tracked) and we know she receives support from her parents in general. The first time child support was establishe, luckily the magistrate saw through her, and told her a woman with her education and age should be able to find a full time job making at least $20 an hour, and was going to assign her that amount as her income. That was a huge win for us, becaue she brough a W2 sayign she only makes 20K a year. (she owns her home, come on now....) She has a roommate who helps pay bills as well, but also I live with dad, so that's a wash. Apparently she just showed up in a new BMW, which begs the question, how much are you making? We did find out through SD13 that she was kicked off of food stamps, so that made me feel a bit better, becase I know what I spend a month on groceries for us, and it's ridicuouls. We live paycheck to paycheck for the most part, but we can't complain, we have what we need and the abilty to enjoy life. Do I want nice things, of course, but I'm willing to work for it. I'm just wondering if this new car purchase is true, can it be considered in child support decisions? I said, to at least, ask for a re-callibration of income. He thinks she has a manager postion now, and I said if that is the case- then her income can't be undetermined anymore.
I tried to encourage him to not let it bother him. Maybe she borrowed the car? I know she is going out of the country again for a vaca with SD, 4th one since last summer. So she is obviously making plenty of expendable income. Maybe it's a bit of jealousy, but I also keep reminding myself I'd rather live a decent life being happy and good to others, than live extravagantly and miserable and unable to make friends. Going to search for child support laws for PA now
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I’m in FL and just started a modification.
My state said it would take 6month to a year for my modification to be completed. It was definitely a gamble to even file because obviously the other parent could be making more or less. Either way why not try. It will definitely be a long process. Make sure you stand firm with the DOR because I had to read them my parenting plan and email them because they couldn't locate the same document I had that sowed the BD should contribute to medical. Anyway, best of luck! It is frustrating for sure.
Unfortunately, the following
Unfortunately, the following things don't usually factor into Child Support.
What your parents gift you or help you with.
Whether you have a roommate helping pay your bills (with the exception of a situation like you mentioned already where a court may impute "assume a higher" income than you report because you may be underemployed because your new partner is able to subsidize your lifestyle)
Where you live, how many vacations you take and what you drive.
So.. pretty much most of your evidence.
You have one possible sliver in that she may have been promoted and be earning more on the books.. (is it markedly more than the 20/hr the judge assumed?)
Court is slow and expensive..
The car could be a rental, loaner, gift or could be being bought at super high rates and her parents arehelping her pay it.
Vacations could be all going on a credit card.. not responsible.. but credit limit is also not part of child support calcs.
The reality is she may have a big house of cards financially with roomate/boyfriend, parents all propping up her overextended credit life.
It might be interesting to look at the calculator and given that you are 50/50// how much "less" would your DH be paying if she were making 10, 20K more a year.. (or whatever higher amount that you think she is actually earning .. not being given by someone like her parents) Then you can think about whether it is really worth it to pursue based on the income part alone.. because all the other stuff is circumstantially aggravating.. but she doesn't deserve less child support in a court decision because her parents give her 2k a month for example.. that is just not how it works.
I do get the frustration of watching her seemingly enjoy nice things.. when you may be struggling more.. the only thing I can say is that if YOU personally work more and earn more.. she can't have that figured in.. so you increasing your income is probably the best way for your household to come ahead.
Thanks,
Thanks,
I do get it and I figured those things aren't considered in her income. Also, I know she's smart enough to know these things as well. It does boil down to frustration. And like you mentioned, she can't have access to my income- which is it's own frustration. I told dad Inwouldnt consider marriage until SD is 18, for that reason. I work a lot, and I am in no way okay with her having access to it. Especially when I see the dynamics of each household and I know SD is more than taken care of by dad, and BM obvs. Thanks for replying, I think I needed to hear that it's a lost cause and to just let it go.
I did marry my DH (beneficial
I did marry my DH (beneficial for health insurance for him and the kids).. his EX did make a half hearted attempt to try to rope my finances in.. but in almost all cases in the USA... a partner's income is not considered for child support purposes.
The only time it does get considered is usually when you apply for FAFSA (student aid/loans).. they consider the household income of the primary parent.. and their spouse.. even if they aren't the bio of that child.. fortunately for us.. BM was the lower earner.. and had more custody.. so it made more sense for her to be the one filing and she never remarried.. so I did not have to provide anything..a nd if I had.. the kids would have gotten zero.. I personally make too much.
But for CS.. the only time a spouse's relative income is considered.. is usually when one parent is seemingly/obviously underemployed because their spouse is able to fully support or greater support the household.
Like... guy that was making 100K.. marries an independently wealthy trust fund woman.. so he stops working.. because she has enough money.. like your BM case.. they will often impute what he "could" be making.
Same might go for a woman who becomes a SAHM with her new husband.. and the courts will try to look at what she could be making.. it's not equitable to make her EX pay as if he is the only one earning.. if his EX worked previously.. and could work.
CS Mods can be extremely entertaining.
DW had full physical and legal custody from birth. The Spermidiot was not listed on the birth certificate as the father though SS had his family name from birth. DW and the Spermidiot were never married. DW filed a paternity and CS motion before SS had turned 1yo. That motion upheld full physical and legal for DW, established paternity for the Spermidiot, and ordered $110/mo in CS obligation on the Spermidiot. No visitation was ordered.
The SpermClan filed a custody suit against DW when the small town grapevine informed the SpermGrandHag that DW was dating someone. DW had left SpermLand for University out of State just after SS turned 1yo. That suit crashed and burned on the SpermClan and full physical and legal was upheld for DW. Visitation was set at 7wks per year of long distance visitation.
After 9 years of $133/mo I was hit in the semiconductor industry implosion and was RIFd. I pushed DW to file for a CS mod at that point since I had zero income and though the SpermClan would invariably motion for my income to be considered, I had no income to consider.
They went after my income during the custody suit they filed when they learned that DW was dating someone. We went before the Judge 5days after we married. The Judge smacked with them clarity that SParent income cannot be considered in CS motions.
Then.... "StepDad makes a good income and dad should not be punished by having to contribute to an artificially elevated standard of living for the child." So the idiot Harry Potter robed moron slinging the wooden Fisher-Price toddlers hammer then ruled that the Spermidiot would be granted an income reduction credit for CS calculation purposes. So, while SParent income cannot be included in CS calculation, it can be used to provide a benefit to POS sum loser derelict wastes of breeder skin in the blended family opposition.
I LOl'd when that was ordered and vocalized to the Spermidiot to enjoy that $50/mo. $50/mo is what the maximum income reduction credit lowered max CS by. His robed moron Honor did not appreciate my snark. But, other than bang the toddlers hammer on his desk and order me to be silent there was not much he could do. After all, he had ruled that I was not a party to the case then could not explain how if I was not a party to the case how could he justify ordering me to provide my income information to him. "Your honor, you have already made it clear that I am not a party to the case, why am I even on the stand? If I am not a party to the case, neither is my money. So no, I will not provide the court with my income or asset information. After all, I am not a party to the case." I didn't provide that information for a very long tense period until he threatened me with contempt of court. At which point I laughed but did not say a word. He had already threatened me with contempt if I said another word. So I crossed my arms gave him a tight lipped fuck off and die smirk and raised my eyebrows at him. so.... He turned purple and ordered me to answer him. To which I kept giving him my eat shit and die tight lipped smirk until he clearly revoked his threat to hold me in contempt if I spoke. I then tapped my finder an an envelope that I had placed at the corner of the bench when I sat down on the stand when called a half an hour earlier. I then said, I gave it to you 30 minutes ago. If smoke could come out of someone's ears, it would have been fogging up the court room coming out of the Judge's ears.
The last shot between the Judge and I was when I ran a full page add in the local paper highlighting how the Judge had forced a toddler to spend time with a perve serially arrested for statutory rape with a bold print "Vote No for Judge XYZLMNOP in the election." He was standing for re-election in the fall after our late summer hearing. Our lawyer called us begging me to pull the add. She was terrified that our case would kill her practice in that small town county seat. The Judge had called her and ripped her a new one after someone at the paper had called the Judge when I placed the full page add. I refused unless the Judge agreed to recuse himself in any further iterations of our Custody/Visitation/Support actions. He agreed.
After that, we did run into each other a couple of times over the years when we were visiting my ILs. There is a great gourmet coffee shop and patisserie on the corner across from the court house that my bride loves. We go there for lunch occasionally and take my MIL and her sister for lunch. His honor and I have occassionally approached each other on the side walk at which point he turns and crosses the street. I never threatened him. But neither did I put up with his shit.
9 years later DW filed for a CS review. Spermidiot refused delivery of several registered signature required summons notifications and when physically served by the Constable took off running. All great stuff to bare his ass with during the long delayed CS review hearing.
Because he refused to respond to the DA's subpoena the DA asked DW for income and other information on the Spermidiot. She went CPA on his ass, provided historic tax returns, income information, his employer's contact information, provided the official State and County pay statistics for licensed SpermLand plumbers highlighing recommending that the mid point of that range be used to establish the dipshitiots new CS obligation. The DA took DW's information, set the new CS at $785/mo up from the 9yrs of &133/mo, and invoked direct payroll withholding.
When he got his first $0.00 pay check Spermidiot came screaming into the court house to demand a hearing. Unfortunately that was granted rather than him being told to STFU and crawl back under his rock for the 2yr between CS review stipulation.
During the telephone hearing with the Admin law judge, they did their usual motion to have my income included. To which we responded with a stack of evidence that the SpermGPs were paying the Spermidiot's CS, paying for the travel costs for SS's SpermLand visitations, that the SpermIdiot was living in the SGP's rental property rent free, and that they were raising his three younger spawn by two other baby mamas in their home without contribution from the Spermidiot. They had no way of coungtering our PI reports, and official docs. Then, DW motioned that the SGP's income be added to the Spermidiot's for CS calculations purposes. SpermGrandHag lost her F'n pea brained micro mind.
The icing on the cake was when the Judge promptly informed them that a SParents income is not considered in setting CS and ..... that she was taking the motion for the SGP's income to be added to the Spermidiot's under consideration.
Her honor was highly impressed with my graduate degreed CPA former single teen mom bride and unline the robed moron in our initial hearing, SpermGrandHag did not clean this Judge's home and office.
Ultimately our motion for the SGP's money was denied but only after a major SpermClan ass chewing by her Honor.
The DA's setting CS at $785/mo was lowered to $385/mo to go into effect after a full year at $785/mo to compensate DW for the Spermidiot's year of dodging the subpoenas and running from the Constable.
3mos after that hearing, Spermidiot came crying into the court house wanting a CS reduction because he had gotten health insurance on SS as he had been orded to provide 10 years earlier and never provided. Because he did not provide it, even the robed dipshit ordered that his CS be increased to compensate DW for providing health insurance for SS. Which I provided via my employers. That cost the SpermGPs $10/mo for 9+years.
We had a quick follow telephone hearing on that where the Judge informed him that the insurance he had provided was sub standard and he would provide both his substandard insurance and continue to pay the additional element of CS to DW to continue to provide quality insurance for SS. Finally, because he played games with trying to get a modification in far less than 2yrs from the new order without a major change in circumstances, the 2yrs was reset.
Irritatingly, even that wonderful Judge granted the dumbass the maximum income reduction credit due to my income, DW's high income, and due to the Spermidiot adding 3 more out of wedlock spawn by two other baby mamas following the initial hearing where we successfully defended their attempt to take custody of SS 10 years before.
File for the CS modification, go with complete documentation, go loaded for bear, and have fun baring the idiot opposition's ass officially. You know them, you know what they will likely do, so play them, get them to lose their shit in front of the judge, be confident, and be professional. Know everything there is to know so if they play games, you can win. And... if necessary, so you can keep the robed moron in their place. But... don't go too far with that part. I nearly did.
I completely respect the position that a Judge or LEO holds. I do not respect the individual in that role unless they earn it with performance.
What a story, and what an
What a story, and what an amazing response! I was laughing the whole way through. I admire your type of determination and willingness to use your intelligence to stomp on the manipulative and narcissistic other who thinks they can point and click and get everyone to respond to their whim. I'd like to think I can use my intelligence in a similar fashion: I have a steel trap memory, and I also keep notes in a proteced app, and I wait for the right moment to fight. The only victory dance I've been able to have was convincing DH to take her for custody before she made any moves. I could tell it was coming down the line, she made too many empty threats. The suprise was worth all of the hassel, and that was when the discussion over her income began. I am thankful the magistrate saw through her, as she tried to claim she only made 20K a year. What a joke. Actually, now that I think of it, it's quite a mistep in her typical pretentious ways: she didn't consider how ridiculous her story was, she only believed she had it all figured out.
Thanks for taking the time to respond and thanks for that great story. I hope that spermidiot gets his karma
You document. That is critical. A toxic opposition rarely will.
When called to the carpet in court they fall on ranting, raging, and crying victim.
Facts and full and complete records, journals, court papers, etc... will overcome the ranting,raging, and victim tears by uncovering them as what they are.
The side most commited to the struggle has the best shot at winning. Know the CO, do not tolerate any deviation from it by the opposition.
It worked for us.
Good luck.
How old is your SK? If they
How old is your SK? If they are very young, it might make sense to make sure CS is modified and in order.
Technically, SD15 is 50/50 however she is at our house more times than not during the school year. DH never filed for CS. The headache and drama that would ensue wouldn't be worth it. BM and DH make *about* the same about for income anyway. So it would almost be a wash.
Also, *if* SD15 wants to go to college (doubt she has the grades for it though) it would be covered under DH's GI Bill. The only other big expenses in SD15 near future would be a car/insurance, but hopefully DH and BM could figure that out on their own without a CO.
I know a lot of people who have 50/50 yet still receive CS because of the income differences. IMO, if you have the child half the time, you're already taking care of half their needs. I wouldn't worry about what BM has very much. It's hard to ignore the flashy cars, but disengage and don't let BM get to you.
Let it go...
My advice is to let it go. The time paying the ex will be relatively short in the scheme of life and the judge has already "assigned" her imputed income which was a good thing. You will NEVER know what money she really has, earns, or where it comes from so I'd just chalk up the unfairness of it all as another cost of divorce. At the end of the day, she knows she didn't do all she could to support her kids.
I used to drive myself half-crazy thinking about how my ex-wife got the better deal, sitting at home while I worked like a dog all day.
Let it go.
I know you're right. I tell
I know you're right. I tell myself it's not worth the energy it takes to hold the resentment. Truth will always show itself eventually, and honestly it aligns with the wisdom that was shared with me in the beginning, when I was having a really hard time with my relationship with SD: I put distance in between, and started paying more attention to myself. Once I did that, and started focusing on what made me happy, what I needed, everything got a little easier, emotionally speaking. BMWs are nice, but inner peace is better.
In our case, the NCP SpermClan knew what we earned.
That they had to pay CS while DW alone made more than the SpermIdiot and both his parents combined then with my professional income on top drove them nuckin futz.
I cannot imagine the fury associated with being on the quality NCP side of the blended family equation while a toxic CP had control and was paid by my side.
I hope that your life post CO has been one you enjoy and that your kids have done well.
It’s his child
He just support her. Just realize you are 8n the dating [ honeymoon] time of the relationship, you have choices,
'used your money to help support SD, Who in the end will not know you. '''No SD wedding pictures wiity you'''. Just continue to date until SD support will end. Break off the relationship.
I think your SO reaction to all of this is the most importantly factor. He should want his DD '''needs'''' taken care of. Not '''''all of her wants'''. most kids have cell phone, does SD have the biggest, newish, IPhone ? Get the picture.!
'the X has shown her self as a money grabbing person. This will never stop
And remember, the expense years are ahead of you. The ''car'' ...college..graduate..graduate gift... the wedding ..with reception .. the new home. Then grand kids.
'it's not to early to take paper and pen and discuss and come to a consensus on funding all of this.
'Is there any of this covered in the divorce papers.? Did you gave a copy to read? If you don't understand any of it. It's would be wise to speak to a lawer in your state, ''area'' to go over it. You may have to pay a few hundred but it's money well spent.
'If college was in it ? If not ..what that mean ?
Our BM did this. Every time
Our BM did this. Every time we had any sort of change in life - new car, had a baby, bought a house, went on vacation, BM would take DH back for a CS review and every time her argument would be "well if they can add this new expense, HE must be making more money." Not once was DH actually making more money. In reality, I was the one getting raises and bonuses that made those things happen. It always was a lengthy process and caused our household stress as we waited for the outcome, trying to financially plan if it went up significantly. It made DH never want to move, buy a new car, or change anything because he knew he'd be dragged back to court.
The most recent review really screwed BM over. It was in 2022 and I had just given birth to DD and we bought a house. She thought we were rolling in cash to make that all happen at the same time. What she didn't realize was I was promoted to manager prior to maternity leave (which came with a hefty bump) and DH and I had been saving for a house for 3 years and finally found the right one. Things just fell into place at the right time, but it didn't mean we were rich. Once the CS calculation was done, BM realized DH was able to factor DD into the equation as an additional dependent (BM only has SS) and she also realized DH was making $50k less than her (she has a decent 6 figure income). Her CS dropped by $150 per month and the medical split went from 50/50 to 66/34 due to the income variance.
You never know what money someone is making, what gifts people are receiving, or how much debt someone could be in trying to keep up appearances. But the risk of CS going up (or down) and the stress is caused isnt worth it IMO. Just remember, BM only collect this paycheck for 18-21 years, then she has to learn how to live without it for a lifetime after that. We are fortunate to be done with CS in 5 years (from today actually) and I truly hope BM never files another review and we can just finish out our payments and be done with it.
They did not initiate a CS review. But they planted their flag
But they planted their flag on the hill that the pittance in CS ($133/mo) bought our nice homes, top school district for SS, a new car upon occassion, nice vacations, etc... They attempted to use that to attempt to guilt SS into begging his mom to drop CS all together. "Your younger sibs do not have the nice things that you have and are starving."
This among other decade+ manipulations are what ultimately cost them a relationship with my SS.