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Having second thoughts about what I advised DH to do

Great Mom but horrified Stepmom's picture

My DH is a true gentleman and a lovely, lovely person. In addition to being a fine athlete and a darned good looking man (if I say so myself }:) he is also a tolerant and loving father to his almost 15 year old daughter. She lives with her BM.

My DH has had EOW and every Wednesday night since his daughter was 5. When he and his ex first split up his daughter wasn't 'allowed' to come and stay at his new apt because his ex-wife said she was frightened and she wasn't ready. About 8 months into their separation the BM started doing a LOT of internet dating. The daughter miraculously overcame her fear and as long as her mother had a date she was fine with spending nights and entire weekends at her Dad's. Her Dad, my DH, considered this absolutely fine because he wanted to make sure his daughter was comfortable and he didn't want to push.

The BM became involved with a long-haired, truck-driving yahoo. He moved into her place almost immediately. She proclaimed him to be her soul-mate and announced he was a 'kind and loving' man whom she was destined to marry. Within months he was threatening to beat her up and she had to leave her house, take the daughter and move into her parents until they could 'force' the idiot out.

Then there were the bikers who she began to hang out with. They were also 'kind and loving'. My DH, horrified by this time, tried to talk to her about the type of people she was bringing their daughter up around. It fell on deaf ears as she is always right, will not listen to anyone and fancies herself above reproach.

Fast forward over the years. His daughter has been allowed by her mother to be 'sick' repeatedly when it came time to attend DH's family functions. Christmas, Easter, Birthdays, doesn't matter - the daughter made her disgust with his family pretty well known. She wouldn't actually come out and say it to him or to them but she was free with her opinions when telling others how she didn't like any of my DH's family.

It broke my DH's heart. 3 years ago she walked into her junior high school office and announced she was 'sad' and that she needed to see the counsellor. That was fine and everyone bent over backwards to accomodate this. My DH drove her to and from her counselling appt's when the school counsellor recommended she go to see another counsellor who works out of a government run youth office.

For his trouble he got a letter from his daughter. She detailed how 'shallow' he was, how she felt sorry for him because he was so pathetic. She said it wasn't his fault as he had obviously been raised to be this way by his shallow, horrible family. She addressed it to him by saying 'READ IT AND WEEP".

Weep he did.

2 years on she is still in counselling. She began failing school and her mother, against her father's wishes, pulled her out of regular school and allowed her to attend an internet school. Which she promptly began failing at as well.

She is now back in regular school part time and guess what = still failing part of it. My DH is beside himself. He tries to help. He had called Kumon and Sylvan tutoring. He tries to get her to do her homework. Her mother stymies him at every turn.

If he calls her counsellor (as he did when she posted she was suicidal on her blog) he is lambasted for interfering with her 'privacy'.

She is allowed to not see him. She is allowed to fail school. She is allowed to not like his family.

As it stands today she hasn't spoken to him in two weeks. She promised to call him after she had spoken to her counsellor about him reading her blog and not respecting her privacy as she posted suicidal messages!

What is he to do!? If he ignores the suicide and cutting entries and she does kill herself how could he live with himself?! Yet by taking action he is now completely shunned by her, with the full knowledge and agreement of her mother.

In the past he has always reached out, taking her to dinner, telling her how much she means to him, etc. He has ALWAYS had to grovel.

I cannot stand it! For the first time now he hasn't called her or texted her 'first'. She holds all the cards and always has. I think this is the right move.

A person, even if they are a child, must realize that relationships are reciprocal and love must be extended both ways. She must begin to put some value on her Dad!

I think this may teach her that he won't put up with it but I worry that it is just setting up even more of a pattern than before.

Anyone have anything similar in their lives? What did you do?

Signed: Angry as heck at his ex and his kid!

Comments

Annanymous's picture

Sorry for your DH. While he still should not tolerate it, she may have some emotional/psychological issues going on, like paranoid delusions from bipolar in depressive state that is behind some of this, especially with what she is saying and acting and the suicidal comments and cutting. She may perceive through the paranoia and delusions that Dad and his family hate her guts and she is lashing out. She may have such ugly feelings about herself that she transfers those thoughts and feelings to them as well, if I hate myself so much, they have to hate me too.

He should try to reach out to the counselor and see if he can have some sessions with the counselor and his daughter together. Express how much he and his family love her, how deeply it broke his heart for what she said and wrote, and that he can forgive and wants to move on, and that he loves her too much to give her "privacy on the internet" - there is NO SUCH THING AS A CHILD HAVING FREE PRIVATE INTERNET ACCESS and if I see you posting suicidal and cutting thoughts, damn straight I am going to come running, because I love you.

That lambasting for privacy is backlash and embarrassment.

I could be totally wrong of course, but speaking from experience as a teen that acted like that, I think she is having delusional thoughts, possibly even invasive thoughts like "they all hate you, just kill yourself, you are worthless" and such.

I could be wrong, but she could also really need help.

DH should not ply her with money, but he should continue to call and pursue and say "I will never give up" "I will ALWAYS love you" and "I will ALWAYS check up on you and jump if I think you're hurting" and so forth. However, along with this, I would not send money, pay for cars, or anything else to be "used", as regardless of whether she is going through mental illness or not, that would just teach her to treat people like shit and use them (Dad included) and if it is not a mental health issue and she is just a selfish spoiled brat, you definitely do not want to be giving her money and gifts - still do call regularly though and leave messages.

Great Mom but horrified Stepmom's picture

What a great reply Annanymous, thank you. I'll pass it along to my DH. His biggest obstacle seems to be that the ex-wife and the 15 year old collude together to shun him.

It seems like an impossible uphill battle but he has to keep going on it. I confess, although I know the situation comes from an emotional illness - at least partly - I cannot help but think so much of it is a spoiled, entitled brat acting out because she is allowed to do so and her Dad has no leverage at all.

Clearly An Upgrade's picture

Great but Horrified: You and your DH are living the very similar nightmare life that my DH and I have been for the past sixteen years. My SD17.5 has not spoken to her father in almost five months since leaving our home (which was her full time residence, with minimal contact with BM for over a year). We have been advised by two different counselors (my personal counselor and SD's counselor) to NOT make the first contact with SD, because it will show her that we will always grovel in order to have SD "grace us with her presence" in our lives. It is EXCRUCIATING to not contact her, because we know that BM's home is a toxic environment for SD, and we are simultaneously watching her downward spiral on Facebook.

BM has had literally more men that I can count living with her over the years. Three of them she married. Two of her ex-boyfriends and one of her ex-hubands have sexually violated my SD; the first molested her when she was three, the last (that we know of) raped her when she was fourteen. Immediately following the sexual assault, DH filed an ex-parte motion for full custody of SD (for the third time), this time also at the request of SD. Even with a mountain of evidence, and a criminal conviction showing SD is in danger, and being subjected to abuse in BM's home, DH was still pushed into mediation with BM as a first stop by the courts. SD was interviewed alone, and when DH and BM got to mediation, the mediator told DH that SD DID NOT want to live with him, and wanted visitation with him reduced. The mediator told DH that he could feel free to pursue full custody, but that his "impartial" report to the courts would advise against it being granted to him.

SD refused to talk to DH for a few months after the mediation occurred, because she "didn't want to have to explain why she changed her mind about where she wanted to live". This arrangement was just fine with BM, as she was VERY angry with DH and I for being active participants in the criminal case against her husband. We went to every single appearance, from his arraignment to sentencing, and everything in between, and BM attended only the sentencing, where she was able to make her victim's impact statement. She arrived to that proceeding drunk, with yet another new boyfriend. BM hadn't wanted the police to be involved in the first place; it was my DH that called on behalf of SD. The only reason she cooperated with the police regarding the sexual assault of her daughter at all, was because CPS was involved, and she didn't want to risk losing her other paychecks, ahem, children, in the process. During the criminal case, BM took SD to her husband's family's home on several different occasions, and each time SD was purchased thousands of dollars in clothes and accessories by his parents, in an effort to sway SD from testifying. The police and CPS had put a "no-contact" order in place between SD and her "step-father", and he was living with his parents. Basically BM took SD right into the lion's den, and when we found out about it, we called the police and courts, only to be told that SD denied ever going there to the authorities. BM was having private conversations with SD that we found out about later, telling her that he is "really a great guy, he just made a mistake, it's up to you (SD) whether he comes back to live with us again". BM was furious that the courts took DH's input into consideration regarding sentencing, and fought AGAINST the DA and DH when jail time was set to be imposed. The day of sentencing, BM spoke to the DA without DH, and signed off on a plea deal for her husband that reduced his charges from Rape of a Minor to Sex Abuse III, with a 29 day jail sentence and sex offender package. I don't think we've ever witnessed such gross injustice in our lives. The very person that was supposed to protect SD aided her rapist in getting away with his crime basically scot-free, just so he didn't miss a lot of work and could continue to pay BM's bills. BM stayed married to the monster for an additional three years, seeing him (and a bunch of other guys) under the radar. And there was not a damn thing we could do about it.

Yet when things got to a point where the fighting was really intense between SD and BM (BM had another new boyfriend living with them, this guy was fifteen years BM's junior, and was assuming the "dad" role in their home, after dating for less than two months), SD still covered for her mother and rebuffed her father. Even after BM kicked SD out, SD still defended everything BM was doing, while complaining about the misery regularly. Even after we altered our lives to bring SD in and give her a more stable life, she still went running back to BM the first time she had to face a consequence at our home. Even after finding out, for 100% sure, that BM was STILL married to her monster of a husband (BM swore she'd divorced him two years earlier), SD still "chose" BM over her dad, who was nothing but good to her for her entire life....and continues to chose that lifestyle, to this very day. I will NEVER understand it. Her loyalty to BM, even at the cost of cutting out her dad to appease BM, who clearly only cares about her own needs and desires, is unbelievable.

Great Mom but horrified Stepmom's picture

Thanks for telling your story Clearly. I hated to read that you have continued to be shunned and that your husband has taken so much abuse from his daughter.

I know what you say it true - the kids will often side with the Mom no matter what. That is why I keep my emotional distance. I am polite and friendly. Same way I would be to a neighbour. No more.

I can't stand watching this happen but it feels like a slow moving train that has left the station and is going to its destination no matter what.

My DH texted her yesterday and asked her to go for a coffee. They are going Sunday. She didn't say anything about not having contacted him the last many weeks and neither did he.

Whatever I guess. It's their relationship. He has a history of 'sweeping things under the rug' with the ex and I guess it is in full motion with the daughter now too.

Sigh. I just hope he is ok at the end of the day. His ex and kid are both peas in a pod.

Clearly An Upgrade's picture

That's exactly how things have turned out on our end too. All these years of SD seeing, feeling, acknowledging, the dysfunction that her BM serves up regularly, just to decide at a critical point in her life to not only accept this abusive and painful way of life, but to fully embrace it. Peas in a pod, indeed. The BM in our situation is Dx BPD, and SD (had she continued the therapy we had her in) would likely have been Dx BPD (or Histrionic PD) upon her 18th birthday as well. At this point, she suspect with her psychiatrist, but it's clear to us (and other family members) that she shows all of the same signs of personality-disordered actions that BM does.

It has not been easy AT ALL to let SD go. DH and I have been her only lifeline to the "sane" world and healthy living. I worry about her safety constantly, and at times the grief of "losing" her consumes me. That (among other things) has caused me to enter weekly therapy sessions to help maintain my own sanity. I can no more control SD's actions (and BM's abuse) than I can that slow moving train you refer to. I can protect my DD's from continuing to be witnesses to the mess, and need to to keep them safe, but that's the extent of my control in all of this. By keeping SD from entering my home, I can keep them from being hurt over and over, because at this point, wondering what happened to their sister is easier for them than knowing the reality of her choices. But DH I cannot protect. I can be there for him in the aftermath, but BM and SD both have his number, and will not allow him to wait out SD's residency within BM's walls. That's been his plan since the last big meltdown that led to no-contact over the past four months; to step back, let SD make her choices, and hope that she opens her eyes and grows up when she leaves for college and is no longer under BM's total control.

I think that's a safe stance for him to take right now, but honestly, I don't think that SD will magically "get it" at eighteen. I really don't foresee her ever becoming well or balanced. As time goes on, that becomes less of a possibility with SD simmering in sickness at BM's. And DH sees the stark contrast between our home and BM's even more clearly now than ever, and I can't see him accepting that, and SD won't accept him if he doesn't. BM has always been a hot button topic at our home, and DH has so much anger towards her that he struggles with finding a neutral ground around that subject.

I hope that your DH is able to strike some balance, as my DH cannot, and his relationship with SD is going down the drain. I know that SD feels abandoned, but DH doesn't pursue SD out of self-preservation. SD will hurt him (and anyone else) if it will earn her favor from BM. Getting BM's approval is SD's only concern. Everyone else is collateral damage. Good luck to you and your DH. I don't have any answers on how to combat this kind of PAS, but I feel your pain and hope things work out in the end, for all of us.