Need some suggestions for disengaging from SD
Ok all. I know a lot of posts have gone up about disengaging on here, but, many seem to deal with disengagement due to a difference in standards/opinions between the adults in the house.
Given the events that have transpired (see my last blog entry), SO and I agreed that it would be best for me to disengage from SD as her standards differ from ours. We want her to realize that these aren't my standards but that they are SO's standards. And the only way we can do that is by me disengaging and SO stepping up even more than he has been. However, we obviously need to do this in a way that is as minimally disruptive to our regular lives as possible.
Now. My questions lie in the fact that she does a lot on her own. So I don't do much for her other than socialize with her, give her books to read, do stuff with her. So obviously all that stops. But, how should I be handling the weekends when it is just me and her because her dad is sleeping and he works 8pm-8am? I don't want to do anything that could make her think her argument is valid because the issues she is experiencing are her own and are related to her dishonesty.
But. I don't want her running around thinking she can do whatever she wants when dad is not around because I've disengaged. As I said, this isn't an issue between SO and I having different standards. It is one related to SD not liking the way we run our house. That's what she wants basically. She wants to be able to do whatever all the time, but, I think she would settle for doing whatever when dad's not around. Of course, that's probably going to have to be the way it is because I'm not interacting with someone who has been rude, unkind, and has lied to my face with zero remorse.
So. I'm confused about how best SO and I should execute this step towards regaining peace in our house and lives.
Any and all ideas and suggestions will be appreciated.
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I'm not sure what else you
I'm not sure what else you can do. You are disengaged so this is SO's issue now.
"But. I don't want her running around thinking she can do whatever she wants when dad is not around because I've disengaged. "
If SO isn't around, she pretty much can do whatever she wants, unless it interferes with you. AND unless So plans to have someone else monitor her while he sleeps.
Could you be more specific?
That's what I wanna know. How
That's what I wanna know. How to deal with it interfering with me.
Basically she acts like she is perfect and can do no wrong. But she doesn't follow the rules very well. And she is rude to me. How do I deal with that, just by walking away? Shouldn't she be put out by being rude to me? It just seems like I'd be putting myself out. Or should I just shut her out and do whatever I want and pretend she doesn't exist? I know I can't have an emotional reaction to it but I'm stumped by this. It would all be easier if I wasn't the one with her on weekends.
To be more specific about rudeness. She has an attitude when she talks to me. She does what she knows she cant do. She thinks she is superior to me (for example she lectured ME for 20 minutes Saturday night on how to better care for the cat we have because she deemed her too skinny and unwell and told me I was not taking good enough care of her cat). And she is only happy being the center of attention or left alone if not. Like she got snippy yesterday because I didn't want to take her anywhere or do anything besides read a book I have but was ok with me giving her books to read and leaving her to it all day.
Basically I guess I gotta have SO do prep to ensure she doesn't think she can snow me through my disengagement. But what I'm not sure.
Ooh, you have my SD16
Ooh, you have my SD16 visiting you. She's superior, smarter and better than everyone she is around.
Here's what I did, I stopped talking to her. When she asked me something or talked to me I kept it short and generically pleasant. She HATES being ignored, because she's an attention seeker. So, I found her hot button.
I dont' say hello unless she says so first, and then I only respond in kind. I give her no opportunity to talk to me poorly because I give her no opportunity to talk to me. She can have all the attitude she wants, but it gets her no where.
"Helena, don't you think that xyz" Me: "I don't know, your dad will though" Everything is referred to dad. Everything is a diversion away from you. ONLY if she speaks to you first. Otherwise, there is no need to acknowledge or bother with her.
So what she got snippy about your choice to not wait on her. Not your problem, that's hers. Don't give her books or do something else. You aren't there to entertain or tell a grown child how to occupy her time. "attempting, can you drive me to x" "no"
That's it. When you get a why, just say I have my own plans today. You owe no child an explanation. Her father needs to arrange something else if she is going to make plans. They'll figure it out.
If she is blatantly rude then you stick up for yourself. Otherwise, who cares.
All of the benefits of having
All of the benefits of having me around are completely out the window, now. I took all of my books back and SO has told her this morning that she is no longer allowed to touch anything of mine that I have given her permission to use in the past. She does not get the benefits of having me around while simultaneously treating me like so much crap. She gets nothing from me from here on out aside from a polite response if she acknowledges my presence in a polite manner. I told SO that I'm not going to even entertain any of her attitude and snottiness anymore. If she can't be bothered to say "hello", "good morning", "good bye" or "good night" without it dripping with attitude and the sense that she wishes I didn't exist, then, I will treat her that way, like she does not exist.
She will get a taste of what she has been doling out to me only worse because I will be doing it with dignity and class and won't be throwing around attitude or having a tantrum because "AtMC is just so mean and has too many expectations!" I know part of that reaction and the fact that she thinks it is all me is because SO shot himself in the foot by telling her one day that he and I talk about anything and everything. *smh* he really needs to learn what he can and can't say to his kid without making MY time with her miserable.
I think I'm going to have to play this all by ear, but, I have to say, it makes me feel better to know that it isn't just my SD that thinks she's a gift from heaven above and that everyone should consider themselves lucky to be around her.
Also glad to know that I really can just do whatever the heck I want and not bother with her unless she acknowledges me. It'll be nice to have my freedom back on the weekends rather than worry about what that little troll thinks or is up to.
Sounds like you have things
Sounds like you have things under control, plus the support of DH. More than I had. You should be way more successful than I am with that support.
I'm very grateful for his
I'm very grateful for his support. I made sure to thank him again this morning because, last night, he told SD that he found it highly unacceptable that she saw absolutely NO issue with not apologizing for lying to me; that she apologized to SO in front of me, but then, just looked at me and walked away without apologizing. He told her that he will not stand for blatant disrespect of me. I think I'm going to be thanking him regularly for that for a while because it's kind of a big deal for me.
I'm just nervous about all of this because there are still 3 weeks left in her visit, I've been relatively disengaged in the past but I've never fully disengaged to this extent, and, I'm afraid of how she might react because I don't know her very well and I don't know what sort of behavior she is capable of when buttons have been pushed, which, they most likely will as she likes to think she's the gravitational center of our universe and should be treated like no less than a queen.
Would any daycares take a 12
Would any daycares take a 12 year old? haha.
I don't think a babysitter would work well with her because she is sugary sweet to people who are paid to be her "friend" like that. Basically, she's nice to everyone else we have her around except for me and has been that way since I ever moved into the townhouse with SO, so, this whole "AtMC is ruining my time here!" is just a bunch of overdramatic hooey because she never gave me a chance thanks to GUBM. That, and there really is no need for her to have a babysitter as far as I see it because she is 12 and does for herself all day long - makes her own breakfast and lunch, dresses herself, etc. And, well, if dad is asleep and she can't ask him for something or to do something, that's just too bad for her then, isn't it? (My brain has started working again now that I've been reading these comments and am onto my third cup of coffee after having maybe an hour of sleep last night because of all the stress and tension that resulted from her crap). I think SO's just going to have to lock her down on weekends - no phone, no tv, no computer, etc. - until he's awake and she can ask him for whatever the hell she needs/wants/whatever.
I'm not expecting the situation to change at all, in fact, I warned SO last night that it probably never will. But, if we try this and do the best we can, we can feel satisfied in the fact that we tried.
And, yes, I do think she's passive aggressive because that's how GUBM is, so of course she has learned from the best. I'm just glad that SO isn't standing for her treating me like crap because that would have made my time here that much more difficult than it really needed to be.
Time for me to let go of the stress she caused yesterday, think with a clear head and brainstorm with SO about what we're going to say when we inform her this evening that I'm no longer going to be her emotional punching bag.
Actually there are plenty of
Actually there are plenty of summer camps that would take a 12 year old. Our local Y has weekly camps every week for kids/teens that you can sign up for the week before. Every week has a different theme.
Check at your Y, it's worth a shot.
SD is already in a summer
SD is already in a summer camp during the week, a summer camp that I went out of my way to find for her, actually, without any gratitude on her part, of course. Because, of course, all the good things that happen to her here are thanks to SO while all the bad things are my fault. Last time I'm doing that. Next summer she can go to the crappy summer camp down the road from the apartment where the kids look bored all day long rather than the awesome camp at my school where I got SO a discounted rate for the simple fact that I am a student there. As I said in my comment above, the benefits of having me in her life are done. She doesn't appreciate or respect me, so, she gets nothing from me.
The issue was pertaining more to Saturdays and Sundays because that's when SO works 12 hour overnight shifts.
Hmmm. Maybe SO can look into
Hmmm. Maybe SO can look into that if she proves that leaving me the hell alone is too rough for her to handle.
I would suggest you make it
I would suggest you make it very clear to SO that you are not a babysitter and if he is not able to spend time with his daughter while she's there then he should cancel and make other arrangements when he can spend time with her. What he is doing to you is torture. I know. My SD15 is the same way. In our case she is rude to both of us, she's been PAS'd. We have since banned her from our home because it got really bad. (she doesn't know this yet, but after a couple of missed visits we think she'll figure it out) She lives 1,500 miles away and only came to visit 4 times a year for the last 4 years. If she ever asks to come back, probably never, there will be conditions, many conditions. My DH and I have come to terms with the fact that SD is too much like BM, and we just don't like her. We've been so happy since we disengaged. He still talks to her on the phone and pays CS, so it's not like he's abandoned her. We just came to the realization that we're all better off with a little distance between us. The fighting was too intense and draining.
That might have to be the
That might have to be the next step if SD doesn't relent after I disengage.
SO has made it very clear to her that he will not tolerate her acting disrespectful towards me.
And, SO is debating sending her home early and still has not made a decision about what to do in that respect. We've only made the decision that disengaging is the way to go until she goes home, whenever that might be.
I'm just trying to make sure I have all of MY bases covered in case he decides to keep her around the rest of her visit. But. After this week, I don't care because I'm going on vacation middle of next week to go visit my friend in Michigan. Blissfully, she has no children. Thank goodness.
Since your SO is standing up
Since your SO is standing up for you, I wouldn't push for sending her elsewhere just yet. That was my first thought - he can't be there, why is she there. Yes he is there sleeping but if he isn't spending the time with her, she doesn't need to be there to spend time with you - this of course is difficult and tricky to do.
So, like the others, speak when spoken to - I just don't engage in conversation if I don't have to. I always answer with polite words - I keep it short and don't open my answer up to further conversation. If conversation is extending - I can end it simply with, mmm, not sure, you will have to ask your father. This is a good conversation end.
At 12, I am sure you can leave her at home while your SO sleeps and take a mid day break. Simply INFORM her you are stepping out for grocery or whatever just simply stepping out and will be back - LEAVE - take an hour for yourself - even if you go to a park and read a book for 35 mins - whatever. She can entertain herself in the house can she not? If not and your SO is working during that timeframe that does make it harder.
I'd just go about your day as you want - no special accomodations for SD - no need to go out of your way for someone who disrespects you.
I had trouble with SS6 not listenting to me around the pool (well anywhere he doesn't listen but the pool is dangerous) so he would ask to go swimming. I wouldn't say no, I would say I am sorry but I can't. You don't listen to me SS6, therefore I can't let you go to the pool because you choose not to listen. There is nothing I can do - you don't listen. He would scream he wanted to go. I would say, you see, again, you aren't listening and that is why I can't let you go. I'd really like to, but I can't because you don't listen to me and since you can get hurt, I can't let you go, you will have to wait for your dad to come home and he can take you, but I can't.
Obviously that is for a 6 year old, but you get the idea. Put the ownership of loss of activity back on them indicating THEY have tied YOUR hands - not the other way around. I put the ownership on SS6 - silly maybe, but it was a last resort - he slams his head swimming because he refuses to listen on my watch and BM will have me in jail - so screw it. No pool time with 3Fam - LOSS of privilege.
I also use that word a lot, privilege. Pool time, dessert, trip to the mall is a privilege. That is something to be earned. You haven't earned it therefore its not my responsibility to provide any privilege.
As they say in Alcatrez:
Regulation # 5
You are entitled to food, shelter and medical attention. Anything else is a privilege.
I definitely like the
I definitely like the suggestion of putting it back on her when she asks me for something. It makes it seem less my issue, then, and puts the onus squarely where it belongs...on her and her piss poor behavior and treatment of me. That's actually really good, I appreciate the feedback.
I'm not planning on pushing her to go anywhere at all, I was actually kind of shocked when SO said that he was thinking about sending her home sooner rather than later, thought I misheard him and needed clarification. Though, I do agree. If he's not able to spend time with her, why the heck is she here for me to spend time with? She clearly has no interest in that and would much rather just be with SO and watch me disappear. She made that very apparent with her comments yesterday as well as with the nasty faces she made when SO told her that he and I have two nights a week reserved for adult time - counseling night and date night.
This Saturday is definitely going to be all about me. Now I just have to figure out what I want to do...so many options in this great city I live in
She can entertain herself in the house, but, she's going to have limited choices - she'll have the television, whatever library books she might have checked out, and whatever toys she might have in her bedroom to play with. Because she is sure as heck never touching my Xbox until her attitude improves drastically and she can prove that I can trust her to not just pay me lip service to get her way. I'm not holding my breath for that to happen anytime soon.
She is 12. No 12 yr old runs
She is 12. No 12 yr old runs the show.
If DH cannot properly control his kid and make her behave and he is working and sleeping, she goes to mom early.
You said SO was ready to send
You said SO was ready to send her back. My DH had the same idea once when she was about 12. She was acting so incorrigible that my DH went right up to her and said "I have no problem gathering up your things and putting you back on that plane, so straighten up or we'll be taking you to the airport tonight". My jaw nearly hit the floor. She cried and cried, and said she didn’t want to go and would try harder to get along. But it was just lip service. She never changed. I felt so bad and guilty for not being able to just tolerate her behavior. (I don’t tolerate bullshit, it’s just the way I am) Sometimes I look back and think we should have sent her home, because in the end she never did learn to be nice to us. I don’t like the idea of being driven out of my home by an entitled brat. I made the decision for her to be banned after really, really trying to make it work. DH was ready to ban her about 3 visits earlier, but I still felt like giving her a chance. Good luck, I hope things work out better for you guys.
He was. He told me he was
He was. He told me he was going to leave the decision up to her, though.
I don't know if he posed it to her or not.
I don't feel guilty for not tolerating her. SO put me in an uncomfortable position and she lashed out at me. I might not send her home myself if it was my child, but, I will support his decision to do so if he does because, as he told her to her face, I am fully justified for being upset over the way she has been treating me. And he will not tolerate her being disrespectful to anyone, let alone someone in this house.
I don't for a second expect her behavior to improve. It is easy for SD to dump the responsibility on others and not own up to her actions. But SO made it very clear to her that she is on thin ice and that if she can't figure out a way to fit into our family then she just won't fit in. Harsh but true. Although he did express very clearly that he does want her here. Me? Not so much right now.