siscopaula's picture

Step Daughter only invited her dad for visit, I am not invited. Should my husband go without me?

Sad My step daughter is 28 yrs old, married & 2 kids plus 2 step kids. She invited her dad, my husband, to visit but not me. Should my husband go. If not, how should he handle it?

dispiritedstepmom2011's picture

ask him his opinion. did she

ask him his opinion. did she forget to mention ur name or did she flat out say him and not u? if she doesnt want u there, dont go. if she does...well maybe stay home and when she asks y u didnt come, let her know u are ur own individual entity and expect to have ur name included in invites.

siscopaula's picture

It was an intentional

It was an intentional not-invited situation. Should my husband go or tell her we will come down in the spring-both of us.

momof5_1969's picture

He should not go without you

He should not go without you -- you are a package deal. Either you both go, or not at all. My SD22 just recently did this, and after many other things besides that we ended up in marriage counseling, and we specifically asked our counselor about that --- and the counselor said that if the daughter did not invite me, then husband should not go, and should tell the daughter that the specific exclusion of me was insensitive and hurtful and that he will not be coming unless I'm invited. Of course, our SD22 is immature and psychotic, so she has chosen the route of disowning both of us -- yeah!! Ahem, I mean, it's so sad (sarcasm noted here).

I wish you the best. Sorry you're going through this too. Sad

StepAside's picture

Hell no he should not go.

Hell no he should not go.

That is RUDE!!!!! Shocked

My 29-yr-old SD starting asking my DH to visit her "alone" for some "alone time" last fall. My DH said he wasn't comfortable with her multiple requests, but she persisted. Like your SD, mine lives with her fiance. So it really wasn't "alone time" with her father, it was really more "without Stepaside" time.

He finally went this summer. The first thing she did was to lecture him and tell him that he has allowed me to cut off his balls. That was the last straw for me. She will not be welcome into our home until she apologizes to me.

Additionally, she invited her sister, her sister's bf and a cousin to visit at the same time. So, it was a family function, not "alone time" whatsoever. She didn't want me present, because she planned to shred me and that is exactly what she did.

Let's start by going over how this would work if you and your husband asked her to come for a visit and leave her husband at home. Would she appreciate her husband being carved out of the picture? Most likely not.

I've gone over this scenario a million times now, and talked to my DH at length about it. Both of us agree that we would NEVER invite our parents to visit without their spouses. We'd never risk offending their spouses, creating conflict with them or putting our parents in this awkward position.

Your SD's request is hugely disrespectful to you AND to your husband. He choose you to be his wife, his partner in life and you are a couple. He took vows to honor you, not leave you at home because his prima dona daughter refuses to acknowledge you.

If your DH agrees to it, he is setting a precedent that her request is acceptable. She is causing a divide in your marriage and he will be agreeing to it.

I think your husband needs to explain to his daughter that she is a grown woman, and that her primary relationship is with her husband. She needs to focus on her immediate family and her marriage, not reach into the past and attempt to recreate a baby girl-daddy relationship. He needs to tell her that he does not agree with the request and finds it disrespectful to you both, not just that YOU find it unacceptable. He needs to explain to her that he'd never tell her to leave her husband at home because he respects her choices and her marriage, and he expects the same treatment in return.

She has plenty of opportunities to speak privately with him over the phone. At this point in her life, there really shouldn't be too much that she can't discuss in your presence. I don't know how your SD expects you to feel about her request or how she thinks you'll respond to it. But the fact that she did it says to me that she flat doesn't care. This is more war efforts.

What my SD did this summer really opened my DH's eyes. She treats him like a spouse or a child, but certainly not like a father. She lectures him, comments on our marriage (been married 18 years and she is no part of our day to day lives, nor does she know what she's talking about in the least), talks about me like a dog to him and in front of others in his family while knowing word will get back to me, and has a level of entitlement that is off the charts.

These types of young women of today are extremely controlling, demanding, manipulative, needy, disrespectful and clueless. They must get their way, or they will disown their fathers. (Read Emotional Blackmail) It's an extension of their childhood, where all their behavior is assumed to be acceptable because they are demanding underage brats.

I have two words for them. GROW UP

If your husband agrees to her terms, he will be feeding into her entitlement and growing the monster. He'll be forfeiting his dignity to meet her demands. She is an ADULT. His days of meeting her basic needs are over. His primary role now is as a HUSBAND. Her primary role now is as a WIFE. There is only one way for your family to be successfully blended, and that is if everyone treats each other with respect.

My alltime favorite quote: Successful relationships are based on mutual respect.

http://centersforfamilychange.com/relationship_problems_respect.htm

"Respect: What do we mean by mutual respect? Mutual respect is a very simple concept. It consists of treating each other in thoughtful and courteous ways. It means that you avoid treating each other in rude and disrespectful ways, e.g., you do not engage in name calling, and do not insult or demean your spouse. It also means that you do not talk sarcastically to, or ignore or avoid your partner. While this sounds very simple it takes a consistent effort to treat your spouse respectfully. Respect is not just the absence negative behavior, but the presence of positive behaviors. Specifically, if you are treating your spouse or partner respectfully you are doing things such as: considering his//her opinion; consulting with your partner before making decisions that affect your partner; taking an active interest in your spouse’s life (work, daily activities and interests); compromising and negotiating with your partner about important issues that affect both of you and your family. While this list is far from exhaustive it captures the essence of a respectful marriage or relationship.

Establishing and Losing Respect: How is respect established in a marriage or relationship? Respect is established when you consider and value the feelings and opinions of your partner, talk to and treat each other in ways that you would want to be treated, and are willing to compromise and negotiate with your partner.

How is respect lost in a marriage? Respect can slowly erode due to day to day stresses and strains. If your or your partner is stressed or struggling with your own issues, you may become irritable and negative, and vent your frustrations on your partner. This can set off a vicious cycle in which partners are increasingly negative and disrespectful to each other. Similarly, an inability to resolve or manage conflicts or differences can lead to anger and frustration, which if expressed in negative and blaming ways can start the same cycle of negative interactions and result in the loss of respect. These are only a few of the ways that respect can evaporate in a marriage or relationship.

Supporting and maintaining respect: Sustaining respect during the course of a relationship takes effort. We are all human, and if someone begins to treat us negatively, inconsiderately, and disrespectfully, we often tend to respond in kind. This pattern of mutual disrespect feeds on itself. The more one partner is rude and inconsiderate to the other, the more likely they are to receive similar treatment. Thus, disrespects can grow until most interactions are characterized by sarcastic, inconsiderate, blaming, critical, and demeaning behavior. However, the lack of respect is not always so obvious. Spouses or partners can show their disrespect in more subtle but equally corrosive ways, e.g., ignoring the spouse or partner, responding with indifference to their partner."

Your SD is asking your husband to disregard you. She is asking him to disrespect you, and she is blatantly disrespecting you. The answer from him should be a resounding and firm NO.

Smooth seas don't make great sailors.

emotionaly beat up's picture

Damn right it was

Damn right it was intentional, and if your husband goes it will be the beginning of the end. This crap will continue and get worse over time. Either you will finish up feeling so angry and resentful that you will ban her from your home and set off another set of problems or you will leave your husband, because you will find that no matter what you do for years and years she will never accept you. How rude.

Would your husband attend any other function held by friends or family where he was invited and you deliberately were not. I suspect if the neighbour threw a party and said he could come in, but you weren't welcome, he would be horrified, this truly is not different, either you are his wife and deserve to be treated as such or you are not. Take her relationship to him out of this, if she was a neighbour or a friend who did this, what would you both do. Do not allow the fact that she is his daughter to factor into this decision. She is first a rude woman who has deliberately slighted his wife...then she is his daughter who has appalling manners.

He should simply tell her he is BITTERLY DISSAPOINTED that she has done this, and he thought he had brought her up better than that. He needs to explain firmly that of course he will NOT be attending without his wife.

JUMP ON THIS THE FIRST TIME IT HAPPENS AND DO NOT TOLERATE IT. Do not allow your husband to say "give her time" or anything else. It just gets so bad you will lose your sense of self esteem.

The people on this site who have years of ongoing problems are the ones whose husbands didn't stand up the first time and support his wife. Please do not make the mistake of thinking it will get better it won't IT WILL GET WORSE, because if he goes or if he says nothing to her about her rudeness here, she will and I promise you this, she will, see it as a sign that daddy understands she doesn't like his new wife or his new marriage; It is not good for your marriage and if you start this you can forget about any chance of having a peaceful blended family not only down the track but ever. He is making a big mistake if he goes and a worse one if he doesn't tell her up front why he will not go. Yes he might lose his daughter for a week, a month a year or three, but if he doesnt stand up he WILL lose either you or her forever one day, This does not work. Don't do it. She is trying to divide and conquer and believe me if he goes, or he fails to tell her how rude this is, it is the beginning of the end.

Then when she invites you to this or some other function and she will, or she comes to your home to show daddy she really is a nice girl, be warned she will ignore you and or be rude to you, she will someway somehow make you feel unwelcome. Your husband needs to see this, and he needs to jump in immediately and tell her, did you invite my wife so you could be rude to her, because let me tell you now, I will not put up with this, not now, not ever, and you should both go home. But he needs to take this on and let her know that THESE are his feelings on the matter, because if he once mentions you said, or you thought, it's over, she will say well dad didn't really care he is just trying to shut her up. He does need to stand his ground and be very, very strong here.

StepAside's picture

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Love EVERY

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Love EVERY WORD!! VERY TRUE!!

Smooth seas don't make great sailors.

Anon2009's picture

I think your DH needs to

I think your DH needs to politely and lovingly but firmly call her out on this and ask her how to think about how she'd feel if her stepkids did this to her.

Chapter 3, Ecclesiastes, vs. 1-8

Anon2009's picture

*Sorry for the double post*

*Sorry for the double post*

Chapter 3, Ecclesiastes, vs. 1-8

icecubenow's picture

"No, thanks, Sweetie." No

"No, thanks, Sweetie." No explanation should be given.

SD knows EXACTLY what she is doing. Please don't fall victim/prey to the never-ending DH statement "Give it time." Or, SD will continue to rule the roost, even if she is an adult out on her own.

Didn't you mention that your SD is a SM, too? Surely she knows where you are coming from.

Just a question...did your SD invite him for a major holiday, or just a visit? (not that it matters really, but just curious since the Season is here...)

StepAside's picture

Ditto that. My SD's have

Ditto that. My SD's have visited a handful of times in the past 5 years. One flat out told my DH that she hates me too much, and if that means she doesn't have a relationship with him or our kids, that's fine with her. That's fine with me too. Smiling

Smooth seas don't make great sailors.

Anon2009's picture

*deleted*

*deleted*

Chapter 3, Ecclesiastes, vs. 1-8

HRNYC's picture

I would be careful. Are you

I would be careful. Are you suggesting that your DH cut off contact with his DD and his grandchildren? Does she invite you to some stuff, just not everything? Were you involved with your DH before his divorce from her mom was over.

StepAside's picture

If you are asking me, that's

If you are asking me, that's not what I'm suggesting at all. I'm suggesting that the father not allow his daughter to treat him like a 2-yr-old and set conditions on their time together. If she can't agree to a mutually respectful relationship, then if her dad doesn't come, that's on her. That's not a decision her father initiated.

Smooth seas don't make great sailors.

HRNYC's picture

At the end of the day,

At the end of the day, suggesting someone give up on contact with their child and grandchild is, imho, not easy and possibly not without consequences. To say, nananana its all the SD fault may not be protective.

StepAside's picture

"Emotional blackmail is a

"Emotional blackmail is a term used to cover a central form of psychological manipulation - 'the use of a system of threats and punishment on a person by someone close to them in an attempt to control their behavior'."Emotional blackmail... typically involves two people who have established a close personal or intimate relationship (mother and daughter, husband and wife, sister and sister, two close friends)." When 'subjected to emotional blackmail, we become the other's emotional hostage: "If you don't give me that, you will be responsible for my breakdown"'.

According to psychotherapist Susan Forward, who did much to popularise the term, "emotional blackmail" is a powerful form of manipulation in which blackmailers who are close to the victim threaten, either directly or indirectly, to punish them to get what they want. They may know the victim's vulnerabilities and their deepest secrets. "Many of the people who use emotional blackmail are friends, colleagues and family members with whom we have close ties that we want to strengthen and salvage" - PARENTS, partners, bosses or lovers. No matter how much the blackmailer cares about the victim, they use their intimate knowledge to win compliance.

Knowing that the victim wants love, approval or confirmation of identity, blackmailers may threaten to withhold them or take them away altogether, or MAKE THE VICTIM FEEL THEY MUST EARN THEM: 'as the power of emotional blackmail indicates, self-identity is inevitably affected by...the "reaction" of the other', as is self-esteem. If the victim believes the blackmailer, he/she could FALL INTO A PATTERN OF LETTING THE BLACKMAILER CONTROL HIS/HER DECISIONS AND BEHAVIOR - 'caught in a sort of psychological fog'.

Emotional blackmailers use fear, obligation and guilt in their relationships, ensuring that the victim FEELS AFRAID TO CROSS THEM, OBLIGATED TO GIVE THEM THEIR WAY AND FEELING GUILTY IF THEY DON'T: indeed 'Susan Forward & Donna Frazier invent the acronym FOG, standing for Fear, Obligation, Guilt - feelings which often result from being exposed to emotional blackmail when in a relationship with a person who suffers from a personality disorder'.

Four faces of blackmail

Forward and Frazier distinguished what they called "Four Faces of Blackmail": punishers, self-punishers, sufferers and tantalizers, each with their own particular style of mental manipulation.

"'My way or the highway' is the punisher's motto. NO MATTER WHAT YOU FEEL OR NEED, PUNISHERS OVERRIDE YOU." "Tantalizers are the most subtle blackmailers... OFFER NOTHING WITH A FREE HEART." By contrast, "self-punishers CAST THEIR TARGETS IN THE ROLE OF THE 'GROWN UP' - THE ONLY ADULT IN THE RELATIONSHIP.... SUPPOSED TO COME RUNNING WHEN THEY CRY", while sufferers take the position that "if... you don't do what I want, I will suffer, and it will be your fault." The kind of 'omnipotence gained by causing anxiety in others is only rivalled by the "power of the pathetic", the means whereby we are disabled from saying no to someone...because of how guilty they make us feel'.

According to Harriet Braiker, people with borderline personality disorder are particularly likely to use emotional blackmail. In a similar way, "THE DESTRUCTIVE NARCISSIST APPEARS TO FEEL THAT THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO EXPLOIT OTHERS.... WILL RESORT TO EMOTIONAL BLACKMAIL.. and/or promote shame and guilt."

Some, however, would suggest that while 'the term "emotional blackmail" implies some sort of devious, planned intent...people with BPD who appear to be blackmailing usually act impulsively out of fear, loneliness, desperation, and hopelessness'.

Susan Forward - stressing that "Honoring and protecting our integrity isn't easy. Blackmailers shout down our inner guidance... contact with the knowing parts of ourselves" - designated several techniques for resisting emotional blackmail, including STRENGTHENING PERSONAL BOUNDARIES, RESISTING DEMANDS, "a power statement... 'I can stand it'", and buying time to break old patterns. Others describe how in the face of emotional blackmail they 'never failed to feel a tinge of guilt at such times, even though I knew my guilt was "irrational" and was playing into her manipulative hands';[23] but were nevertheless able, on realising that they were 'OVERCOMPENSATING... TO JUST MORE OR LESS IGNORE IT AS YOU WOULD A CHILD WHO THROWS A TANTRUM JUST TO GET ATTENTION'.

'What happens if the other person doesn't comply with the manipulation, but just goes on being pleasant and friendly...[is] your manipulation steadily amplifies...there will be ARGUMENTS, EMOTIONAL PRESSURES, EVEN SEPARATIONS'. Thus "when one person changes the signals by pulling out of the family system," they may find others "brand the victim, CRAZY, UNFORGIVING OR A FAMILY WRECKER."

At the end of the day, suggesting that someone continue to acquiese to demands or be willing to accept blame if the relationship deteriorates is blaming the target of the manipulation. If the stepdaughter chooses not to have a relationship with her father unless he agrees to only see her by himself and at her home, that is HER CHOICE, not his.

Assuming that she is somehow justified in maligning her SM with her disrespectful behavior is also casting fault on the SM. She's a human being, worthy of being treated with respect as much as every other human being is. If the stepdaughter can not agree to those terms, then she is free to be voluntarily fatherless. Her choice.

But as we've seen in this extremely permissive generation, everyone is so quick to blame the SM and the father if they say no. Hence, the monsters continue to be happy as long as they are fed, and everyone else gets to squirm.

That is not in any way a relationship that is enjoyable by both parties. One party shouldn't have to squirm to keep the relationship alive. And indeed, if those are the conditions set, it is better to set a limit, maintain ones self-respect and hope that the offending party can learn from it, then to go to one's grave being treated like a total boob.

Smooth seas don't make great sailors.

HRNYC's picture

I dont think this rises to

I dont think this rises to the level of emtional blackmail, but using your logic who is the blackmailer? SM who insists she be included with DH or SD who doesnt want SM in her house?

StepAside's picture

How quick you are to pit the

How quick you are to pit the SM against the SD.

In an ideal situation, the father would have taught his daughter how to treat others from an early age, and this scenario wouldn't be happening. He would never have allowed her to think she could control him from the start.

The FATHER is the one with the decision to make. And the choice he is being offered comes at a price to his wife. Hence, if he is an honorable man, HE will stop allowing his daughter to blackmail him. And in an ideal situation, an honorable man would have answered his daughter all on his own and on the spot, without ever even presenting to his wife as an open-ended situation. His daughter would have gained respect for him. But now, the husband has put off the decision until after he has spoken with his wife and is giving the appearance (which you apparently bought into also) that it is all up to his wife. So she will get pinned 100% for a decision that he should have made.

Nobody is saying that the guy has to beat his daughter up. All he ever had to say was, "How would you feel if I invited you to visit and told you to leave your husband at home? I think we should treat each other like we'd both like to be treated. I'm sorry you are still having a hard time accepting the fact that I am married, but I really don't appreciate being forced to choose anymore. It's gone on long enough. I hope that you change your mind, and that this doesn't wind up being another event that causes more harm than good. I love you and want peace in my family. I hope you can get on board with that idea."

Smooth seas don't make great sailors.

HRNYC's picture

I dont see not inviting SM as

I dont see not inviting SM as not accepting the marriage -- I accept it as face value that SD only wants visit with her dad. I could see my DD inviting me for lunch, etc without my DH, and vice versa. Its just not the same connection.

What if a SS asked his dad to go on a hunting trip, would that be OK?

StepAside's picture

I think it's up to the couple

I think it's up to the couple to decide if they want to both go somewhere or one goes alone. Nobody should dictate where they can go. That's just rude.

Could a SS invite his father on a hunting trip? Sure! I'm into genealogy and so if my father. When we go to visit, I have been able to spend some time alone with him because my SM isn't interested in cruising through cemeteries. But that's a mutual interest that unites us. Not one party's insecure, needy, selfish, JUVENILE demands.

Smooth seas don't make great sailors.

StepAside's picture

Thank you Paris! I

Thank you Paris! I wholeheartedly agree. Blame the SM seems to be the most common (and lowbrow) conclusion. Takes a tad more intellect to place the burden on the folks who were responsible for creating the entitlement issues in the first place.

Smooth seas don't make great sailors.

youngmama1b1g's picture

The poster said that she was

The poster said that she was purposely not invited tho.
I understand if it was an event that only they as father-daughter enjoyed, but it seems more like SD just wanted dad only to visit with her family. So, yes it's excluding SM for no real reason.

Anon2009's picture

I agree with this. I've often

I agree with this.

I've often heard it said in blended families that the person who forces someone to choose is the person who will lose. And I agree with it. If I were trying to get my mom or dad to choose between me or their spouses, I'd lose. If I were the parent in a situation like that, and my spouse was acting like this SD in terms of putting me in the middle, I'd tell that spouse to take a hike.

HRNYC, nobody is saying this SD has to love, like or even care about her SM. What she should do is try to think about how she'd feel if her dad asked her to visit but to leave her DH at home. How would she feel if her stepkids did this to her? I doubt she'd like that. As an adult, she should know how to treat someone respectfully even if she doesn't like them.

This is what her dad needs to firmly communicate to her, along with the fact that he can love all of them equally, but very differently. I don't think this SD would approve of her dad treating her DH rudely and excluding him just because he doesn't like him.

Chapter 3, Ecclesiastes, vs. 1-8

HRNYC's picture

I dont see anything in the

I dont see anything in the message that SD is asking her dad to choose. She just wants a visit with her dad, without SM. Nothing about the rest of the time, that dad cant be with wife. If my husband ever tried to insinuate that I couldnt visit my DD without him, I would be livid. We're married. Not joined at the hip.

liks's picture

I agree in some parts with us

I agree in some parts with us being rude not wanting the skids to join us on holidays or whatever.....but this is something a little different....
and
My skids forever try this shit with me....

I say to people who dont understand my point of view...(cos when you are the excluded one you really feel bad)

When growing up in your loving families, How often did you ask your father, to join you but then added 'dont bring mom'

When a couple is happily married, they love each other dearly, and spend their spare time in each others arms....how dare someone suggest 'flick your wife and just spend time with me'

'some parents really bring their children up'; others let them down!

skylarksms's picture

HRNYC normally misses the

HRNYC normally misses the point.

"The truth is incontrovertible; malice may attack it, ignorance my deride it, but in the end, there it is." --Winston Churchill
******************************************
"Facts are neither good nor bad, they are only facts." --Rags

Auteur's picture

Some people INTENTIONALLY

Some people INTENTIONALLY miss the point.

The only thing these biodads should feel guilty about is the fact that they didn't wear a condom.

Echo's picture

Ok...do you SERIOUSLY want to

Ok...do you SERIOUSLY want to go and spend the weekend with your SD? I wouldn't care if the SD intentionally excluded me, did it accidentally or had some big azzed agenda. Personally, I'd pack his suitcase for him, shove him out the door, buy some great wine and a good book, light some candles, put my feet up and make the ENTIRE weekend about ME !!!!

But make NO mistake. I would not forget this. And in the future I would invite everyone I could think of to our home, and make damn sure she was well aware that SHE was being intentionally NOT invited. *insert evil laugh here*

If it's important to you, you'll find a way. If it's not, you'll find an excuse.

Nobody can hurt me without my permission.
Mohandas Gandhi

StepAside's picture

I agree with you Echo, and

I agree with you Echo, and that is precisely what I did. I made plans for me and our kids. However... there are residual bad feelings as a result of her demand, and I'm fairly certain whatever joy she experienced from having him alone will never be worth the amount of fuel she dumped on an already smoldering fire.

My OSD got what she wanted, for that particular visit. And no, once I knew I wasn't welcome, I didn't want to go either. She created a standoff. On top of her assuming that I was free game to shred to my husband during that weekend, she's not welcome in my home either. Whatever she intended to accomplish has blown up in her face.

I really don't think these demanding, grown stepchildren consider the potential outcomes of their demands. I'd argue that they cut off their noses to spite their faces.

I've been with my DH when we've visited her before, and all seemed to go smoothly. My DH already sees her alone, because I rarely go with him when he goes to his mother's house. So she was already getting what she claimed to want. She just had to ban me from her home, and that has definitely tipped the scales.

She doesn't have to worry about me stepping foot in her home either. The.damage.is.done.

I'd NEVER create a hostile situation like this with my SM. Neither of us are happy when we are fighting. We both try our best not to argue. It works out great for us. I'd rather have her be in the same room when I'm visiting with my father, than to see him alone for a few days every few years. That to me is beyond stupid. But arrogance can often trump intelligence in these situations.

Smooth seas don't make great sailors.

stepdown's picture

i think it depends. if the

i think it depends.

if the invitation is to stop by play with grandkids for an hour then maybe it is fine if you weren't mentioned.

sometimes i say Mom do you want to go to the mall? mall is right by me, why don't you stop by and we go to the mall? i don't necessarily say "bring dad too"

or my brother calls my dad "hey want to play (sports game they play together) today? stop by and we'll go to local sports place by me" i think it is fine if he does not say and make sure mom comes over too.

But if invitation is for the holiday visit, special event, long vacation etc then it is rude and ridiculous to not invite you

I won't keep this line for too long, just few days: DH has nicotine withdrawal and YSD has vaginal fungus and I am FREE at last!

HRNYC's picture

I agree, you shouldnt be

I agree, you shouldnt be asking 1/2 of a married couple for Thanksgiving, Christmas etc. OTOH, I think I should be able to see my adult DD without draggin DH with me every time.