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Advice about GF's 8YO daughter

Life2.0's picture

I am living with a wonderful mother and her not-so-wonderful daughter. She is mid 30’s daughter is 8.

What makes this tricky, is my girlfriend and her daughter are very, very close. Single mom, single daughter, BD completely out of the picture.

Before I moved in, they slept together in the same bed, NO, more specifically, they shared the same bedroom!
The daughter has nowhere in the house that is just hers.
There is my bedroom, and THEIR bedroom.
Now we split the sleeping arrangement, one night in my room, one night in their room, together, a third night in their room, but in separate beds.
I'm not sure how long this will continue, or when my GF plans to decrease the nights with her daughter.

She is very reliant on her mother. When we are out, and she wants to go to the toilet, she asks her mum to take her...she’s nearly 9!
If my GF is having a shower..90% of the time, daughter will find some excuse to go into the bathroom, and stay there until she is finished.

To me, the 8-year old is emotionally underdeveloped; I've raised two daughters to adulthood, so I have some immediate experience to draw from.
She is very moody, and will overreact to very minor comments, bursting into tears.
She gets into full-blown tantrums, just standing there bawling her eyes out, totally out of control.

But when she’s in a good mood..she’s extremely immature…I won’t bore you with endless examples, she basically acts like a 4-year, again, I know what children at that age are like.

Her mother is very strict, WILL discipline her, and admits that the daughter is a “difficult” child.
IMHO, she spoils her with attention, over-mothers her, and at the same time is very strict with her.

One night, she tells me that after music practice, she is going to take her for dinner and “get her something”
Normally they are home at 6 after practice…I expect them home at 8 or so./
10:00 they finally turn up, well after her bedtime and she is carrying a bag full of presents.
Just junky toys really, but for what I don’t know…just spoiling her.
The GF explained that she thought a night out just the two of them would be good, but how exactly is buying her nice things when I’m not there going to draw me and her closer?

I raised my children differently, at 8 both my daughters were more independent, more mature, but that's me, and my partner raised her daughter differently, that's fine, everyone raises their children as they think is best.

The issue is that of course my coming into their life has really upset her…this is true in any single-mum, single child situation, but is especially hard for her because of this closeness.
Now , I try, I REALLY try, but after 3 months, I feel nothing for this girl…in fact I’m starting to really dislike her!

I talk to her all the time, read to her at night, play with her, do puzzles with her.
I make sure to always day good night, good morning etc. If I don’t, she’s the first to tell her mum that I forgot.

But when she’s in a mood, she’s atrocious!
She will simply ignore me, I’ll ask questions, she’ll pretend not to hear. If mum’s around, she’ll say something to make her respond. …sometimes…

Here’s the thing…

I said that the mum is very strict with the daughter, will discipline her immediately, stop bad behaviour, make sure she does her homework, goes to bed, etc etc.
EXCEPT when it comes to her bad behaviour towards me…then she pulls a softer line.

Sometimes she won’t say anything at the time, but will instead talk to her afterwards.

Example, daughter cracked the wobblies because I entered the bathroom while mum was in the shower, daughter was watching TV.

After, my GF told me that previously daughter said we can't see each other naked until we are married.
What did GF say at the time?
"OK”
??!!
She should have explained to her about love, marriage…etc, instead she tells her daughter that we won't see each other naked…basically lies to her.

So when we are in bed together, and she hears the daughter get up, she panics and rushes to get dressed so her daughter can’t see that she was nude in bed with me…
WTF??

I’ve tried to talk to her, but that just leads to a major disagreement…I have to respect her views on her daughter, and how to handle the situation, even if I strongly disagree.

She says I have to not be a dad to her yet, which I agree with, but to stand there and watch her deal with a tantrum alone I hard for me as a parent and as her partner.

Now, I have decided that I want to have a life with this woman, I love her, she loves me, we get on amazingly well.

But how the heck do I cope with the daughter? She won’t magically change anytime in the next couple of years…I don't want to end up with us hating each other!

If I can’t get along with the daughter, my relationship with my GF will suffer…badly.

Any advice guys…?

Life2.0's picture

That's kind of a defeatist attitude...!
Compared to some of the SK's I've read about in this forum (since I posted), she's not too bad.
!

hereiam's picture

Not too bad? The girl is running the show. She dictates the sleeping arrangements for Christ's sake.

Which means, the problem lies with your girlfriend, who is allowing it. Good luck with that.

notsurehowtodeal's picture

I had to look up "cracked the wobblies" and can't wait to use it in a sentence! It just rolls off the tongue.

I have no personal advice to give - other than to listen to dtzyblnd. She is very wise.

luchay's picture

LMAO - see and to me it was just "normal" never knew it WAS particular to us Aussies!!!

And yes, "throw another shrimp on the barbie" bugs the heck out of me.... No-one says that. NO-ONE!

kathc's picture

Sorry, Dtzy nailed it.

Run and go be happy with someone who isn't codependent with their child.

Rags's picture

Life,

Really dude?? Re-read your OP and then ask yourself why you are not packed and long, long, long gone.

This kid is an absolute testament to the toxic parental failures of a codependent, juvenile level, non woman, non adult female. No wonder why the BioDad is long gone and completely absent from this nightmare. Apparently he is a smart guy. Too bad he did not rescue his daughter from this nightmare of a mother.

You live with your GF and have YOUR room while she and her spawn have THEIR room? :sick: :sick: :sick:

An 8yo dictates the intimate life you have with your GF and both you and GF tolerate that shit. :? :jawdrop: :sick:

If you choose to stay then at the very least man up, put a hand down your shorts and grab a big old handful of man sack, and take some leadership in your home and blended family. Rather than being allowed to mandate co-sleeping, supervising her mothers bathing habits, directing your actions, this 8yo needs you to take her by the scruff of the neck, turn her over you knee, light up some little girl ass to a nice stinging cherry red color, be deposited into her own bed where she stays each and every night from dusk till dawn. When she gets lippy she needs her lips popped with the back of your hand.

I forecast 2 days, a few spankings, a few taps to her snarky lips, and there will be no more of this shit flying in the home you make with your GF.

You do realize that the sole problem is your SO right?

Better yet, reread your OP, grab your bags, and move on never to speak to GF again.

You have raised your family. No need to try to rescue this scared little girl or her snarky brat of a daughter. They thrive in their toxic codependency.

IMHO of course.

Good luck.

Life2.0's picture

OK, clearly I didn't include enough background information in my OP.

Regardless, though, yhe only responses I received were:

Break up
Discipline the child and force her to accept the situiation now regardless of my GF's opinion.

Wow...

It is clear to me that this forum is populated by people so ground down by their personal issues that they have lost all sense of perspective.
Treating the 8SD the way you suggested is preposterous, and I'd be keen to forward the medical bills for the therapy sessions she would need to recover from such heavy-handed treatment.

So, I think I'll just slowly back away from this forum, it's not for me.

Rags's picture

I make my living delivering results to my company and my clients. Rarely is that possible without an assertive plan of action that is followed and adapted as situations change.

I find that to improve an unfortunate blended family state an assertive plan of action is required no less than in my professional life.

A child must have boundaries with consequences. Kids that have the benefit of adults in their lives that set boundaries and enforce consequences rarely have the problems that feral children raised by free range parents have. Obviously there is far more information than what you posted in your OP but all we have to go on is what is posted.

Your SO has no boundaries with the 8yo. This is not something that can successfully be hugged through and this little girl will find clarity on acceptable behavior.

She needs boundaries and you and SO need to enforce them. An 8yo is not a 2-3yo. An 8yo is a preteen who knows acceptable behvior and needs consequences if they deviate from behavioral acceptability. Part of what I do is RCFA consulting and the root cause of the problems you outlined in your original post is that your SO is an inept and clueless parent, in my limited information opinion of course. As a late middle age man married to a formerly single teen mom I know clearly what I will and will not tolerate when it comes to kid behavior. Fortunately we raised my SS-22 to self supporting viable adulthood. Not always in complete agreement but my bride and I have been a team and equity life partners since we marred the week before SS turned 2yo. He had the foundation of consistency in his home life and parenting where his three younger Sperm Idiot spawned half sibs by 2 more baby mamas are much like your SD-8 and will likely never be viable adults.

You have raised your children. Did you tolerate this kind of behavior from your own children? If they did not behave this way then I believe the answer to that question is no. Kids are the product of parenting.

Your SO is clearly not a parent.

Leave is you wish. Or stay and contribute.

I recommend that you hang around for a while. There is some good advice to be had here and there are some very caring and engaging people who are passionate about SParenting effectively.

IslandGal's picture

Mate - I'm sorry for what you're going through but trust me - these steppers know what they're on about. Having a disney parent for a partner is a massive pain in the ass and often develops into a full blown nightmare.

Here are some questions for you..

Do you believe that your GF will ever change her parenting ways and step up to teaching her child independence?

Do you believe your GF will guide her child into adulthood by teaching her to respect your relationship? Will she teach her that it is normal for adults in a relationship to be naked? That it's fine for you to walk in on your partner whilst she's in the shower?

Do you think SD will ever accept your relationship such as it is, and learn that this is the way the world works?

OR

Will she continue to emotionally stifle her (co-sleeping) and teach her how to be entitled and expectant?

Most importantly - will she continue to allow her child to dictate her adult relationship with you?

You got a lot to think about - and I'd suggest you either go to counselling, or have a sit down with your girlfriend to discuss all this.

If she doesn't see that she's putting her daughter's wants before your relationships needs, then youse are doomed. I'm rooting for ya and hoping she realises two very important things (advice from our Counsellor):

#1 priority is your relationship
#1 responsibility are the children

Once she works this out - there may be hope for both of you. I wish you luck!

Life2.0's picture

OK, Since you were reasonable and polite, I'll answer your questions:

Do you believe that your GF will ever change her parenting ways and step up to teaching her child independence?

Yes, she is already, she sleeps alone more often than not these days, and expects the ratio to be reduced.

Do you believe your GF will guide her child into adulthood by teaching her to respect your relationship? Will she teach her that it is normal for adults in a relationship to be naked? That it's fine for you to walk in on your partner whilst she's in the shower?

Yes, this is happening, as well as discussion around our right to privacy.

Do you think SD will ever accept your relationship such as it is, and learn that this is the way the world works?
How can a child exposed to this NOT learn?

All these things will happen..in time.
Yes, Maybe I would move faster, and worry less about emotional scarring of the SD...but it's her daughter, and if she says to give it time, I'll give her time.

Next year we plan to move to a bigger place, and at that time the daughter will be in her own room.
IF this DOESN'T happen, I'll be back to tell you guys

Life2.0's picture

UPDATE:
Thought I'd better fill in the backstory for you lot.

I stated I moved in, but that was as a flatmate!
That was 4 months ago.

Within 2 days I was sleeping with the mum...so there was very little time for SD to adapt to mom having a BF, before said BF moved in, I was just BAM right there in her life, and in a few days, sleeping with her mom.

For the first month, we slept together in my room every night, SD was left alone in "their" room every night.

This was because I stated it was "Wrong" for a 8-year-old to sleep with their mom all the time. She backed me in this..at first.
Then we travelled to her home country of Malaysia, and spent 2 weeks there together, again, sleeping together every night, before I flew back, and she stayed another 2 weeks (pre booked tickets).
When I landed back home I suggested that she keep the sleeping arrangement, and not fall back into the old routine.

Nope, I got a great big reply all about how she was feeling very guilty for abandoning her daughter, how she wasn't happy, and that she should be sleeping 3 nights a week with her daughter,and slowly transition, not do so in one move. She said she would stay "the first couple of nights" with her daughter before sleeping with me again.

We still have sex by the way, she'll come into my room for a visit most often, we have a very good sexlife (which may be clouding my judgement...)

Anyway, the first couple of days stretched out to 2 weeks, before she decided on the 1/3 arrangement
So it has been about 6 weeks of this, and whilst the SK is somewhat better, she still acts up every couple of days, and makes it VERY clear she rather I just went away and left her mom to be with her 100% of the time.

OK, so having been left sleeping on my own more often than the 1/3 ratio due to SD being...sick...(slightly...like a cold for a few days), and now with the new month, I'm sitting down tonight with GF to talk about how things are progressing (or not).

I think it is well time to increase the ratio...I'm going to ask why she still needs 1/3 of the time to herself...which is actually in 'their" room, so in reality SD has mom nearby 2/3 of the time.
I also want her to stop telling the SD we aren't intimate, that we don't see each other naked, etc.
We'll see how that conversation goes....sigh*

MommyNotMommy's picture

Question: How much of this do you have think is cultural and how much is bad parenting?

It sounds a bit nuts to me. My partner was sleeping with his daughter most of the time when I met him, but it wouldn't be considered "normal" in our culture. I know in some cultures a child would sleep with an adult for much longer (maybe a grandparent?), so maybe it's not weird to your partner at all.

I don't advocate for LEAVE IMMEDIATELY. What I do think is that a real sit down is necessary with your partner. It sounds like you moved quite fast. So, you have to find out: What is her expectation for your relationship? What does she want from you and what does she see herself doing? Then you do the same. If your needs and desires don't match up, pack a bag. Not worth the aggravation. If they do, make a time line. If she stops following the time line, pack a bag.

The situation you're in today sounds untenable in the long run, but if you two are making progress together it might be worth it. Steplife is a lot of emotional pain. It might not be worth it for you. There's another woman who will be as sexually compatible as this one.

Life2.0's picture

Culturally...quite a bit, it's certainly "normal" for extended families to cohabit one large house, and the kids tend to sleep together, or with grandparents, etc.
We've already determined our life goals are compatible, and yes, I am keeping an eye on the timeline..I'm putting a line in the sand that by the time SD is 9 (April) we'll be in OURT room, she'll be in HER room...full stop.

Thanks for a constructive reply!

Rags's picture

Life,

When there is an update to your discussion thread I find myself re-reading your original post and shaking my head. I finally realize what bothers me.

“I am living with a wonderful mother and her not-so-wonderful daughter.” Wonderful mothers (or fathers for that matter) do not raise not-so-wonderful daughters (or sons).

In a recent comment on the thread you mentioned the wonder sex life that you share with your SO on a non share a bed nightly basis. You also mentioned the great sex could be clouding your judgment. No doubt it IS clouding your judgment and the great sex is causing a short circuit between your brain and your balls. This is not a situation that will likely serve as a strong foundation for a long and strong marriage.

We are not talking about a colicky teething 8mo old that your SO is co-sleeping with . This is an 8yo. The kid is not the problem in this situation, your SO is the problem and your Cranial-Gonad short circuit is masking some very disturbing and unacceptable character issues your SO is exhibiting.

I get the cultural differences thing but my bride and I have several close Malay, Indonesian, Thai, and Singaporean friends who do not co-sleep with their children while leaving their spouses to sleep alone. As others have recommended I think you have some analysis to do regarding your SOs behaviors and motiviations and whether or not you are compatible over a long view of the relationship. Sex can’t make a relationship though it sure can kill one if there is not a healthy compatibility. The deal breakers over the long run tend to be a buildup of chronically irritating issues over time. This co-sleeping thing could very well be one of those.

Remember. Wonderful mothers do not raise not-so-wonderful daughters.

Keep your head in the game and you will figure this out one way or the other.

Good luck.

Life2.0's picture

Thanks Rags...

Actually I made an error in my OP, I meant to say "A wonderful woman..."

Last night I got home to a storm cloud...

My text suggesting that perhpas she could have stayed with me one of the weekend nights (I love sleeping in together in the mornings), was met with...such an extraordinary overreaction.

WOW

Unbelievable...

I have now been "banished" for 2 weeks to my room...to "Think things over"

If I can't show more tolerance, the relationship can't continue.

Oh interesting tidbit of info...

In all this time, how often has my GF just gone ahead and arranged a night out together, getting the SD looked after by friends or family, so we cna spend time together, just her and me...
Apart from one school camp and one birthday party sleepover...neither of which were specifically arranged by her...

Answer...

Never...

Think that speaks volumes

jumanji's picture

Honestly? I think both of you need your heads checked if it took 2 days to go from roommates to sexual partners, and you wonder why the kid has an issue with the "relationship". The 8yo seems to be the one who "gets it" - you're f-buddies. And it squicks her out.

daddyrob's picture

I agree, this will not get any better. Mom seems to carry a lot of guilt. This won't go away and will only get worse as she gets older. I'm not saying run, but I will say proceed with EXTREME caution.