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New here. Disastrous 1st long-term visit with 2 SSs

oyvey's picture

Hi there.

This is the last day of a 27-day visit with my fiancé's 2 sons, 16 and 18.

Suffice to say, the visit did NOT go well, and I'm here wondering if I should even marry my otherwise-lovely fiancé.

He seems to have Guilty Dad Syndrome. The kids have zero rules when they're here. They stay up til 4 AM, do no chores, he lets them drink beer like nobody's business (they're from UK so it's legal there), they smoke cigarettes as well. Run through their Dad's money like it's water.

I'm at my wit's end. I have a severely motor disabled 13 year old son. He can do nothing for himself physically, so he has no chores at all aside from his homework during school, but he is respectful of me and he loves my fiancé. I'm not saying he never talks back but if/when he does, I discipline him! He has rules and expectations.

I've spoken to my fiancé about all this and he's said that when his kids are here (thankfully, rarely! maybe 10% of the time?) he "doesn't want to be on their backs all the time" because he doesn't see them much. I think it's unliveable... I have to care for my son all day long, and he's recovering from major surgery which has left him in pain and unable to sleep well at night (I'm getting up to turn him 10-12 times/night).

Waking up to beer bottles and candy wrappers strewn over the living room is just NOT doing it for me!!!! I don't pick them up, I let my fiancé find them, and instead of telling the kids to clean up behind themselves, he does it himself and acts like it never happened.

These boys are on the cusp of becoming men. In my opinion they are woefully behind in the game, unable to get up on time for anything, unable to prepare their own breakfast, unable to participate in the running of the household. They're not "bad" kids, no delinquency, they're in school (although one of them had to miss a year due to not being able to get his butt out of bed in the morning!). They live in another country with their mother, who left my fiancé for some reason and took the kids with her, without telling him she was leaving. I think he feels residual guilt for that, and that she took them back to a crappy area (but all this is not his fault, so I don't get the guilt trip lasting 10 years!).

I was raised on a huge operational cattle farm with LOTS of siblings and we basically ran the house, becaue otherwise our parents would have crumbled. I'm not used to kids being treated like they live in a 5-star hotel, having no responsibilities and asking outright for money. At their ages, I had a job or was at university where I had 4 jobs. Their father was employed at 16 and hasn't been out of work since then! So WTF is going on here?

I guess my question is more, how do I save my relationship? And can it be saved if my fiancé thinks his kids' laziness and comfort is more important than our household running smoothly? The first and only arguments we've had have been over this last month and his children/household things. I am so sad right now and I feel utterly powerless.

Please help. Sad

SecondGeneration's picture

The fact that you are posting here asking the question is enough to say hold off on marrying this man. Stay engaged and try to make the relationship work if you wish to but do not over complicate it by marrying.

You have already talked to your fiance about their behaviour and he has given you his answer, he doesnt want to be on their backs. Well, your fiance has to realise it isnt just him and his boys anymore. He now has a family unit with you and your son, you are there full time, his boys are not, thus his boys do not get the ability to come and turn your house and lives upside down. Household rules need to be set and they need to be stuck to, otherwise you will not marry him and this relationship will not work.

Problem is, if he has been a guilty dad for ten years he is probably so far into it that he doesnt even recognise what he is doing. It is going to take some harsh truths and some reality for him to open his eyes and realise. That road can be tricky for anyone, and if he recognises it and wants to work with you to change it to make homelife better then he is worth sticking around and trying to work it out.
If not then he has given you his answer, he wont change and you have to decide whether you can put up with it or not. And given this post, Id say this is going to be a hill to die on.

Velvet3798's picture

Hmmm unruly 16 and 18 can be a challenge. Actually we have a binge drinking problem in the UK and it's these ages who are a big problem, too many rights etc can't be challenged. My bet is they are even rude with their mum as they say in their teen lingo "nothing personal" and try and get away with bad behaviour. There is also the benefits system that has seen more families lacking the value of education and respect. Dad has to realise these are nearly men and could be quite intimidating especially if they sense division. Maybe try to talk to him for you guys to establish a routine and house rules it's kinda late to have absent dad syndrome because at this stage they have already formed whatever opinion about him. He can go drinking with then to the pub and come home to sleep....be nice smile ( the British grin/ fake smile) when they come through the door and stand your ground work as a team...not easy at first because Dad will probably throw a hissy fit first but will come round to your thinking. After all when they decide to go off to start their own families you two will have each other. Biggrin

oyvey's picture

Thanks for the hard truths. Your post really reflects how I feel about things. I didn't expect rose petals and maid service from the kids. Just pitching in and basic stuff.

Luckily we haven't planned the wedding yet, and I'm in no rush to make anything official now.

Looks like we need to have some more serious discussion (when my stepsons aren't here) about our expectations of each other, how things will run in future. We did discuss the visit beforehand, but I've been gobsmacked with stress and fatigue since my son's operation. That probably hasn't helped things but I haven't flown off the handle, just felt irritated (as has my fiancé, which is what I don't understand: you can't have zero expectations of your children then get irritated with them because they meet the zero expectations!).

My fiancé has already had one failed post-divorce relationship with another woman who had a teen daughter. The boys were an added complexity then too (but I won't lay the failure of the relationship at their feet, my fiancé needs to man up and be a father!).

oyvey's picture

Yeah, if my fiancé cleans up, I don't care, but I will not do it if the mess was clearly made by skids. And I don't ask my fiancé to clean messes my son makes either (which happens like never anyway as he isn't mobile).

But if he cleans the mess, he can't complain afterwards TO ME that his kids are irritating him, you know? And he can't clean after them 24/7 so the mess is a problem for me at some point anyway.

I promise you all, I am not a neat freak lol. I will let things slide if need be, and I know what my priorities are and sure, a glass on the counter and a plate in the sink is not a big deal. A broken beer bottle poolside IS a big deal, kwim???

oyvey's picture

Yes, this was my first long-term cohabitation with skids. I have to say, I'm not impressed.

I'm putting a hold on wedding talk. I need to give my fiancé a couple of days to feel better about his kids going back to their Mom, then we need to Talk.

At this time, there is NO WAY IN THE WORLD I could live with skids here permanently, and that is a big problem. I understand that. The skids are not particularly motivated or ambitious, so who knows how long they'll be dependent on someone for their room and board?

This was the longest they've been here since their parents split up. I bet BM had a lovely holiday and will be delighted to send them back to us ASAP. Ground rules need establishing, for sure. I've never had problems doing that, but apparently my fiancé does/has. The guilt is so strong. I don't know if this will work.

3 years of a strong, loving relationship with this man, close to coming undone after 27 days with his kids. We've never even had a fight, been able to talk out everything (and it wasn't always easy, but it was rational and loving and respectful).

I can take care of myself and my son, but what a shame, if my fiancé lets this destroy us.

Rags's picture

If daddy won't effectively parent then the kids should not visit. End of issue.

Your SO is the problem, not his sons. Since his sons are only a few years each from launching I would say bide your time until they are 18 & 20 then move forward with getting married ..... Provided that FDH clearly understands that there will be zero tolerance for bullshit from his children in your life and in your home particularly where it impacts your disabled son.

IMHO of course.

Rags's picture

Parents who raise their children with structure and accountability rarely have the struggles of parents who practice free range parenting who raise feral spawn. Or the marital challenges.

oyvey's picture

I totally agree.

A big bugbear with my ex-husband was his lack of desire to instill discipline in our son, despite his disability. He was very much HappyFunTime Daddy, still is. But my son knows very well that in my house, my rules apply. Kids are smart. Skids would get with the program too, IF THERE WAS A PROGRAM.

The worst disability out there is being a spoiled, entitled brat. And to think people teach it to their children.

Calypso1977's picture

i decided firmly and concretely about 6 months ago that i will not marry my fiance until his child support obligations end. that is at minimum 5 years away, at maximum 9 years (my SD will be 14 in october, and our crappy state mandates CS to age 19 unless kid goes to college FT, then its 23)

im thinking we will end up somewhere around 6 or 7 years. SD is an idiot and does poorly in school. doubt she will get into college but if she does, she will never make it thorugh. her own mother has failed out twice now.

in our case, we dont want children together. so we do live together, but i like knowing i can leave at any time if things really get bad with his kid without dealing with another divorce. all monies are separate too. just makes it all cleaner as we never know what his crazy ex has up her sleeve. she's consistently pulled crap every 6 months.

you may have hope - one of your fiance's "boys" is 18, and the other not far off. you could make it clear you want no adult children living with you unless they contribute.