You are here

A Long Introduction

NeverEnough321's picture

Hello All, 

I (34F)  have recently been going through it and realized I don't have many people around me to talk to about my situation. I found steptalk out of desperation to vent and not end up obsessing over googling my problems.

Background: SO (38M) and I have been together for about 7 years. We never really felt the need to get married, it wasn't really a big deal to us. SO has 3 kids from his previous marriage, SS(14), OSD(13), YSD(10). SO and I started seeing each other about 2 years after his divorce and we decided that I wouldn't meet his kids until we were more serious and committed. Meeting his kids was great! I don't think we've ever had any skid vs sparent issues. They are mostly respectful, well behaved, and fun to be around. SS and OSD have gotten more attitude recently but we know it's their teenage angst making an appearance. After reading a lot of posts and blog entries on this site (while awaiting my account approval), I am grateful for my relationship with them and how conflict free it has been. I have never forced the kids to call me mom since I don't think its appropriate and it just really feels weird to me. SS is academically smart, loves video games, is great at chess, and is a little too obsessed with tiktok. OSD has good grades but really doesn't like school work. She prefers makeup, doing nails, making tiktoks, and occasionally bakes. She likes when we all do things together as a family, but is slowly preferring alone time to call/text her friends. YSD likes to try new things and really just wants to hang out with SS and OSD. She mirrors a lot of OSD's behaviors because they are always together, but is definitely more of a tom boy. She showed interest in cooking/baking for a while, but that has faded away in favor of scrolling on youtube. We're trying to crack down on the screen time.

On our weekends, we try to do at least one activity a day as a family. We are very aware that the teenagers want alone time and we try not to be overbearing while still making the most of the time we have together. Some activities we have done: escape roomes (gets expensive for 5 people), spend a day at the beach, grunion fishing, bbq with family, rollerblading, water balloon fights, and going to the mall. There will be weekends where a kid wants to hang out with friends or another has a birthday party, so SO and I will split our time. He will take one kid and I will take the other 2 to do something or vice versa. 

SO was in his mid 20s when he left BM. Their relationship had already been deteriorating and he couldn't handle it anymore. A few examples he recounted were that she grew suspicious of him when he would work overtime, thinking he was cheating. In reality, he was working more so he could avoid going home to her. She would show up at his work to make sure he was there, she would smell certain body parts, it seemed ridiculous. One day, he packed his bags and left. This is the part that I wish he had been more level headed about. He thought that after they signed papers for divorce, they would just work out a schedule for time and support because he had seen his divorced friends and family have a good coparenting relationship. (INSERT EYE ROLL HERE) Oof he was so very wrong. She filed for full custody, he was never served and never knew about the hearing date, and she got 100%. SO had visitation with them 2nd and 4th weekend and Wednesday evenings, but on the court order it showed only 2nd weekend and Wednesday evenings. She didn't allow any phone calls. 

After we started dating and getting serious, BM got pregnant with her 4th kid with her now husband, SF. SF himself has a daughter with different bio mom. Since SO didn't have visitation on paper, BM decides that on the 4th weekend, SO would get 2 kids so one of them could stay home with SF's daughter so she wouldn't be lonely. This was around 2017 and there was nothing we could do.  SO moved in with me, but we were living with roommates to save money. SO and I both agree that we weren't in a place to ask for more than what he had, but he should have at least gotten it on paper. I think we waited to file because we weren't confident that the courts would look kindly on our living situation, which seems to be a mistake but I can talk about that later.

Fast forward to 2019... I bought a house! I got really lucky and closed at the end of June 2019. We moved in and still decided to rent rooms to family friends (people the kids have known and are familiar with for years) to help us out financially until we were more comfortable. We had a small room for the kids since they were not over a lot. I personally didn't like it because I wanted these kids to have everything. Their own rooms, spaces, and just THINGS in general. But they didn't spend that much time in there anyways. We did our best to have activities to do or family to hang out with. They have 2 cousins on SO's side in the same age range, so it gets rowdy when all 5 get together!

Around 2020, things got hectic. One family friend moved out and we moved the kids to the vacant room because it was bigger. We didn't want to find anyone else to occupy the room and let us slowly give the kids more space. We wanted it to feel like a place they could be comfortable, not just a place they visited. SO got laid off due to the pandemic. BM was pregnant with baby #5. The kids had all their classes moved online. Luckily I was still working and was able to WFH. SO had all the time in the world for the kids now and offered to watch them and help them with school so BM and SF didn't need to refuse work. Outside of the 2nd and 4th weekend (still only 2 kids on the 4th), BM let us have them for maybe 4 days. That was it, but we sucked it up. The year seemed to fly by and by 2021, somehow, we ended up doing group birthdays for SS and OSD. SO, BM, SF and I were all cordial, sat separately, but allowed for the kids to have a nice birthday. SO tried to have a talk about seeing the kids more but it didn't go well, she pretty much said no to everything.

This was when we decided that we needed something on paper and we were ready to go to court for it. Skids were 11, 10, and 7. SO was tired of not seeing all 3, not getting a single holiday outside of Father's Day (2hours), Halloween (EOY), and Christmas Eve. Even when there were 3 day weekends, he was only allowed to pick them up Friday evenings and dropped off Sunday evenings. No more, no less. It really stunk to see how powerless SO was. End of 2021, she was served with court papers and any goodwill we had with her flew out the window. No more 4th weekends at all (Let's just follow the court order for now), no holidays (we only saw them on Dec 22nd), and pretty much no contact any other way (BM had provided a cell phone for them for when they were with us, but they were not allowed to pick up SO's calls or respond to his texts. We believe it is because BM had the phone on lockdown and would check through it periodically. Skids would try to keep the peace). 

Court came beginning of 2022.  Mediation before hearing is mandatory in our state. This was useless as she said no to everything. Zoom court came and went, there was no bad statements between either of them. SO just asked for 2nd and 4 weekends and split holidays. BM said no because kids are getting good grades. Court order comes in and SO gets pretty much what he asked for except that he must first finish a coparenting class and present the ceritificate of completion to BM before getting the 4th weekend, BM must also take the coparenting class (we don't know if she actually did it), SO was allowed phone calls on MonThursSat at 7:30pm, and SO and BM must work out a holiday schedule together. If nothing is agreed upon, the holidays will be split in half. This was pretty much the start of a nightmare time. 

1. SO finished the coparenting class as soon as he could and sent over the certificate to BM. She didn't accepted it and said it needed to be certified by the court. SO jumped through HOOPS for this. He went to the court and the clerk said no, just present it to her and that is enough. BM still said no and that she wanted a certified copy handed to her. SO was getting fed up but we think she was just trying to hold out for as long as possible. 2. Once holidays started rolling around, SO tried to start a conversation, sent her a proposed holiday schedule on the state provided form and told her that if she didn't agree to it to please send her what she was more comfortable with. She responded with something along the lines of... Please stop harassing me. The court order is just a SUGGESTION. 3. Due to weird grammar and formatting of the court order, BM felt that she was entitled to a 7:30pm phone call on the Saturdays the kids were with us. This was so awful for us. The first weekend the kids were with us after the court order was issued, we were hanging out in the living room watching a movie and as soon as 7:30 hit, all 3 got up and went into their room to wait for her call. Another weekend, their cousins planned on going to watch a new Spiderman movie that would start at 7. We asked the kids if they wanted to go and if they wanted to, they could call their mom early. They called her early and she told them that she was busy and that they better all be together on a phonecall at 7:30. SO did his best to let them know that he would take the hit with her and they should go have fun. In the end, SS and YSD went to the movie. OSD was too scared to miss the call.

Recounting this makes me want to scream. SO consulted with a lawyer just to look over the court order and ask about everything BM was doing. Lawyer pretty much confirmed that everything she was doing was insane and not following the court order. We should have had the lawyer take action then, but she convinced us to wait a few months and let the dust settle. I supposed it did, but BM never allowed SO any holidays outside of what SHE decided. The only victory we had was Christmas Eve/Christmas because it landed on our weekend and she had left it out of her holiday form that she somehow assumed was a final decision. We didn't want the kids to not see BM on Christmas and even offered to let her have them Christmas morning. She reponded, "No, we already have plans". 

The relationship between BM and each skid as of late 2022/early 2023: SS is in 8th grade and does not have a social life outside of school. No extra curriculars. No phone. He has a total of 5 sisters (2 Bio, 2 half, 1 step). He sleeps in a nook in the living room (or the couch) because they live in a 2 bedroom apartment and a teenage boy shouldn't be sharing a room with 4-5 other girls. OSD is very much the favored child. She is in charge of the cell phone that she takes to school and texts friends, but she also doesn't have much of a social life outside of school and her phone. She has been parentified and I would consider her more of a mom to YSD than BM. She takes care of the younger 2 half sisters. OSD doesn't want her mom to get in trouble and will lie for her, even though she knows whatever it is she is lying about is not right. YSD.. I am unsure. She is usually too scared to talk about anything that happens at home and she is known to lie. OSD has lowkey let us know that she doesn't get a lot of attention from BM and SF. YSD does talk to SO a lot though. She tells him that she gets jealous because SF gets home and only hugs his bio kids. SF only buys his biokids things and it's flaunted in front of skids. When YSD asked BM about it, BM told her that SF is their dad so he only has to buy things for them. When SO buys little toys or anything that YSD asks for, BM has now asked YSD to stop telling the younger sisters about it because it makes them jealous. All the kids love their mom, but know that it is not a normal situation.

Starting 2023, SS is slowly letting SO know that he wants to live with us, that he cannot take it at BMs anymore. She calls him useless and threatens him. He is this only boy in the home with no relationship with SF, so he can be rough with his sisters. BM tells him if he ever does anything to his sisters that she will kill him and that she would rather put in him juvenile detention than let him live with SO. She has also slapped him in the face. SO would ask if SS wanted SO to ask to sleep over longer or something, but SS would only say that BM wouldn't let it happen and that she would always win. SO would follow up with him because we didn't want it to be a decision that was made only because they fought that day. SO also encouraged SS to speak up to him mom and let her know how he felt. We begin to work with the lawyer on filing with the intention of having him live with us full time. I knew the chances were slim, but I got my hopes up. I looked for good schools, how to transfer a student, different sports leagues and so on. I asked the final family friend/roommate to move out because I wanted to focus on the kids and we were ready to not have renters anymore. The day after we met with the lawyer, SS is quiet and avoids SO for a little while. SO tried to talk to him and finds out that SS spoke up (which is a good thing!) several days before and spilled everything to BM, including asking to live with us. He didn't want to live with us full time anymore and BM bought him a phone. SO told him that he is glad his spoke up for himself, but he should have let us know when it happened. SS said he was afraid SO would be mad at him. SO reassured him that he still loved him and he just wanted him to be happy. After the kids left, I cried. My hopes were dashed, which was my mistake. How could I let myself really think it was a possibility? I could I think that it would work out?

We (when I say we, it officially means SO since we are not married so I have no legal say in anything, but SO does value my opinion because I am very involved) decided to move forward with the modification asking for the holiday schedule be finalized and more time in general (half of school vacations, 1/2 holidays, 3 day weekends). We asked that the judge clarify the wording of the court order so phone calls would not interfere with parenting time. Again, I made the mistake of getting my hopes up. The lawyer made everything sound so easy. Mandatory mediation came and went with BM agreeing to nothing.

Court day shows up and I am a ball of nerves waiting at work for a text or call from SO. Apparently they were the last to be seen and it did not go well. Now, I'm sure all the parents who don't get what they want say they got an unfair judge. SO's judge was... illogical. SO and his lawyer had been watching hearings all day. In one instance a man had stated that he does not have a job because he wanted to spend more time with his kids. She reamed him for not having a way to support his kids. SO feels okay going in. Let's start with the good: SO got the 5th weekends, phone calls any time at reasonable hours, receiving parties pick up kids. That's about it.

The lawyer explained that the kids don't have anymore school for the rest of the summer so they are just at home. The judge says that SO has a job, how will he have time for the kids? (SO is out of work by 2:30pm)

Lawyer: But she (BM) works too!
Judge: They have a perfect schedule, it doesn't matter
Lawyer: The kids are not in school right now, they don't have any activities, we would at least like 1 week of summer. (SO) also has a week off in December during their winter break. 
Judge: I cannot do that, he has a job, he is not spending time with them

It apparently goes like this for a while. The judge then says, ok, you want more time? You can have MWF 3-8pm when the kids don't have school. BM says she does not agree. Judge asks why. BM has no answer. Just then says You guys are going to go back to mediation and figure out the rest of the holiday schedule. Lawyer argues that's why they are in court.. because mediation didn't work! Judge tells them to make it work. BM says she does not agree to any changes. Judge tells her to be open minded. They go get their papers to return to mediation. At this point, I am sad but still hopeful. Maybe BM will hate the pick ups enough to negotiate something in mediation. We prep holiday suggestions for SO for mediation. He is already concerned about missing more work. They go to mediation the following week and all is going okay until thanksgiving, winter, and spring break come up. The kids have 1 week off for thanksgiving and spring break, and 3 weeks for winter. BM will not agree to any time here because they are not "Holidays" and the judge had only said MWF for SUMMER break. The mediators become confused (EYE ROLL) and unfortunately for SO, the court order is not accessible yet. SO tries to get his point across, that school vacation is part of the holiday form that they are discussing. BM feigns confusion. Mediator asks BM why she does not want SO to have any time during winter break. BM says its because she works hard and wants to spend time with her kids too. Yes. She really said this. The woman who has the kids 85% of the time thinks she does not have enough time with her kids. She does not even work full time. Thank goodness, the mediator responded to her that that was not how it works. BM continued to claim to be confused. Mediators claimed to have their hands tied because they didn't have the court order to work with. BM will not agree and we must wait for the order to be available before rescheduling.

The court order has just come out and it only states MWF for the summer. SO and Lawyer remembers the judge stating all school vacation, but that doesnt matter anymore. I do my best to keep SO's spirits high but he is dejected. We feel like we are going crazy. We try to enjoy the small victory of getting any extra time and finally some holiday consistency, but the system has really beaten him down. We thought we did everything right. We waited until we had rooms for them to show that we are responsible. The judge didn't care. She didn't care that SS doesn't have a bed because thats just how some families live. She didn't see any problem with BM's phone calls and noncompliance to figuring out a holiday schedule. Lawyer was upset too. She felt bad she didn't get us what we wanted. She said if they ever ended up back in front of the judge for whatever reason, he probably wouldn't need her. We're not sure if having a lawyer made the judge bias since BM represented herself. Lawyer has helped us out a little more in making sure BM is sticking to the current order in allowing SO the summer MWF right away. OSD didn't come because she said she felt sick, but SO saw that BM and SF's cars were not there and OSD was most likely babysitting. When YSD came out, OSD glared at her for not staying with her. 

So now we wait for the next mediation. The last step. We have no expectations at this point. We are not a reporting county. The order says that they would return to mediation to TRY and figure out a holiday schedule. We are not confident mediation will do anything. The judge made it clear in court she wanted SO and BM to finalize a schedule, but the order doesn't send that message. We're pretty sure it's going to go back to the judge and that she will have no sympathy for SO. There is a chance he will get no additional school vacation time. 

If you have read this far, you are caught up on the last 4 years of this, and I really appreciate being allowed to tell my story as a partner and step parent. SO is not perfect, but he loves his kids and just want them to grow up happy. We are afraid that fighting for more time will affect home life with BM. We are also going through a lot of what ifs. What if we hadn't waited so long? What if we hadn't gotten a lawyer? What if we had just left it alone after the first time? 

There is really so much more to say that I could blog forever about. Thanks for reading Smile

 

 

Comments

Rags's picture

He needs to slap her wiith a Contempt Motion every time she deviates from the CO. Every time.

He needs to start reviewing the CO with his kids, highlighting that their PASing POS BM is a PASing POS.

BM and her idiot DH cannot even provide adequate housing for their family. No more hiding the facts. Baring BM's toxic ass and seasoning the Skidw with the facts has to happen.

Kids need facts to protect themselves from the toxic, shallow, and polluted end of their gene pool.  Which your SKids suffer from with their POS mother.

Do not go down the toilet of "what if".  Attack what is.  Contempt motions for any deviation BM perpetrates. Every time she deviates from the CO.  Flood her with consequences for failing to fully and completely comply with the CO.  Make sure that the CO is fully reviewed with the Skids and make sure they know that their BM is violating the LAW. The CO is the LAW governing Custody/Visitation/Support.

If she fails to respond to Mediation dates.... Contempt Motion.

She refuses to work effectively within mediation ..... Contempt Motion.

She so much as twitches out of compliance with the CO.... Contempt Motion.

Your side has little chance of getting justice out of a family court system that puts authority in the hands of idiot bottom `10%ers of the legal profession who sling a Fisher-Price Wooden Hammer while wearing idiot Harry Potter robes.  The NCP side has little advantage regardless of how toxic the CP side may be.  IMHO this is due to the idiots on the bench.

In our case, my DW obtained full physical and legal custody at birth of SS-30.  We lived under a CO for 16+ years and did have to fight SpermGrandHag, repeated attempts to take custody, and a number of manipulative toxic actions by the SpermClan.  One thing that worked to our advantage, and definately was a benefit to our son is that the visitation schedule was long distance.  Rather than some version of EOWE/EOW visitation was 7wks per year. 5wks summer, 1wk winter, 1wk spring.

Long distance may be something for you and your SO to consider.  If you move outside of the stipulated radius for close proximity visitation SO may be able to get uninterupted visitation time with his children rather than having to continually having to fight constandtmanipulation and interferance by BM.

Due to the long distance schedule SS's behaviors were markedly more manageable than seems to be tne norm for local visitation schedules. Opportunity for manipulation by the oppostion was also minimized.We had some pre-visitation behavioral degradation starting about a week before he would depart for SpermLand visitation. Whe had about 10-14 days of post visitation detox once he returned from SpermClan visitation.  We had the manupulative PAS crap to deal with which invariably was caused by SpermGrandHag plying guilt feelings in our son over his three younger also out of wedlock spermidiot spawned half sibs by two other baby mamas.  The BM in your situations seems to be leveraging her next family breeding results to manipulate your Skids similarly to how SpermGrandHag leveraged her idiot sons three younger spawn to manipulate my SS.  

The facts help with that as well.  SS knew how much his SpermClan paid in CS and that the pittance could not possibly have denied his 3 younger half sibs food, clothing, nice things, etc...  He would come home from visitation angry at his mom for being mean and not stopping CS, not giving more visitation, etc...  We reviewed the CO with him, explained the visitation schedule was not within our control and was ordered by the Judge, ran through the CS Vs living expenses spreadsheet with him, did the Skittles piles on the table excersize where there was a huge pile of skittles showing what it cost to support him and our home and family, and a tiny pile of Skittles showing how much CS was paid ($133/mo). A pile of 133 skittles is miniscule next to a pile of several thousand skittles.

As he got older, he started doing his own research in our Custody/Visitation/Support file cabinets when something the SpermClan vomited did not pass his smell test.  By the time he was in his mid teens he was fully knowledgable on the CO, the court records, the supplemental county/jurisdictional rules, State regulations, etc.... and would call the SpermClan on their lies in real time.  

Kids need the facts. To protect themselves from the toxic shallow and polluted end of their gene pool. Not only as they are growing up, but when they are living their adult lies. These manipulative toxic cesspool parents never stop manipulating.  

The SpermClan occassionally still tries to guilt SS-30 into sending them money. For years it was to help feed his younger half sibs. Now that they are all adults it is to help feed #2 who is on the dole, pay legal fees for #3 who is in prison, and legal fees to keep #4 out of prison as he is following closely behind the inmate/convict.

Facts, facts, facts. Contempt motion, conempt motion, contempt motion.

As your attorney has mentioned. You may not need a lawyer when you go to court. We used our attorney in one hearing. For all subsequent legal actions we used our attorney to send Cease and Decist orders  or other communication on law firm letter head, and to help us build and organize our information before we represented ourselves in court.  The SpermClan never used an attorney after the first hearing.  They also never provided much if any of the information demanded by the courts. We provided full information and had far more than that ready to present to counter their lies. They hated that.  They would lie, we would provide documentation or recorded phone calls proving their lies.

I get the desire to provide happy lives for Skids. Keep in mind that a parents job is not to protect their children from life. It is to prepare their childrne for life.  Keeping a kid in the dark on the blended family drama is not good for the kid. IMHO it is the opposite.

 I have been married to a CP for nearly 29 years and raised my SS -3000000as my own.  However, when the other side of a kid's gene pool is toxic, shallow, and polluted, preparing that kid for a quality life means providing that kid with the facts. To not provide  kids with the facts leaves them vulnerable to toxic crap from a shit parent for their entire lives.

Good luck.

 

 

NeverEnough321's picture

Thank you so much for your input. And you are right, we do want the kids to be happy, but we may need to be a little more transparent on what is going on, at least from our side. For so long we have been trying to appease BM and keep the peace, for both ours and the skids sakes. At this point, they seem to already be relatively unhappy living with BM, but they are now old enough to play the game and just not upset her so life is tolerable. She seems to buy their love whenever there is a court date coming up to avoid risk of having one flips sides. 

I also worry about their financial situation once they are adults. BM already makes them pay for their phone services, which is why we bought them a phone, to ensure that there is still contact to be had when they arent with us. What else will they end up paying for?

As for the contempt motions. I will definitely push for this in the future. We are just not confident with the judge we are stuck with at this time. 

Thanks again for your time. 

Rags's picture

She did that for the first couple of years after the CO was modified after they attempted to take custody.  Their custody attempt failed and DW retained full physical and legal custody.  DW thought that by giving in and not confronting their crap that they would not take out their frustrations on SS when he was on SpermLand visitation.  Once it was pointed out that they lied, manipulated, and PAS'd SS regardless of her playing nice, she went for their throats.  Even with the clear proof that zero tolerance was the most effective method for keeping the toxic opposition in their place, she would back off every couple of years under the mistaken impression that they had nearned their lesson and would be reasonable. As soon as she gave an inch, they immediately went immediately back to their historic toxic manipulative crap.  DW did finally learn that only immediate application of zero tolerance and  invoking the full extent of legal, financial, and social consequences on them was the only effective way to minimize their negative influence on SS.  

Separating the emotion from the actions of protecting our marriage and our SKs from a toxic blended family opposition is not an easy thing to do. But.. it can work.  Though it may not make SKids happy to see a toxic parent experience consequences for their toxicity, it is what protects the SK as much as is possible from the toxicity of that parent. IMHO of course.

Take care of you.

thinkthrice's picture

I thought you had already learned that there is a two tiered justice system...holding the almighty BM in contempt is a fool's errand.

Rags's picture

The courts may not be fair, but, an NCP can and should use them to the fullest extent possible. Even if a Judge does not uphold that contempt motion, it forces the CP (likely the BM) to respond, it is embarrassing, and it allows the filing parent to build the facts to inform the Skids of.  

"Mom/Dad violated the CO, does not follow the rules, and I will not tolerate it.  And neither should you."

Facts are neither good nor are they bad. They are merely facts.  

They need to be applied each and every time one side of the other deviates from the CO.  Kids need the facts.

IMHO of course.

Survivingstephell's picture

Find shrink4men.com.  Find her on Facebook.  If she is getting physical with the kids then have them tell a teacher or other school employee. They are mandated reporters and that will hold more weight than your SO.   
 

As for you, off your home as a safe space.  A relaxing place to chill away from the stress of their mother.  I had to do that in my situation.  Nothing much else I could do.  And it is enough.  
 

 

NeverEnough321's picture

I've tried finding her social media. I haven't been able to see anything of hers outside of relatives' accounts which do not have any information.  Unfortunately, we only have the skids' words and they have stated before that's they wouldn't ever say anything against her because they would still have to live with her and pretty much have no confidence we would win, which is honestly understandable.  We don't have any other proof and we haven't heard of any instances recently. She has been love bombing them since SO served her.  The skids love their mom despite her flaws, which is kind, but in the end unhelpful to us. 
 

I am glad to have a safe space here and to never have to interact with BM. I do get anxious when she comes to pick them up. I have to remind myself that I should not be scared of her and she has no power over us just because she is CP. 

Thank you for your input. I really appreciate it. 

lieutenant_dad's picture

I *really* want to second telling SS that he needs to report the abuse to a teacher or counselor. SO may also want to ask the attorney what he should do when SS tells him about the slaps and threats. Going to CPS each time is a problem, but not reporting it is *also* a problem. If the attorney can help with settling that pathway, such as SO recording in a diary everything and taking pictures of any bruises or marks, and maybe having SS keep a log, too.

Judges can really suck. My DH refused to ever go back to court because of how he was treated. Even when Family Services were involved with BM, they never contacted him (even though he had joint legal custody). So his faith in them doing anything is shot and he just came up with the best solutions he had with the time allotted.

NeverEnough321's picture

Thank you for your input, I appreciate it. I absolutely agree and understand wanting to report being hit. The reality of it is, even our Lawyer said it would be tough to prove unless SS was willing to say something. This happened sometime at the end of 2022. OSD has passively mentioned that her mom slapped her for talking back. I also do not want to sound like I am downplaying it because I do not think it was right at all, but it doesn't have seem to have happened since only because no one has brought it up, and SO has made it clear before that no parent should be harming them. We try to be strategic with the questioning because the older 2 do recognize the line of questioning and have lied to keep the peace before. We are pretty sure they lie to BM too about what they do here. I do keep a log of their visits and anything noteworthy just in case, but the skids will not back it up. 

SO's judge really does suck and SO is doing his best not to end up in front of her again. Unfortunately, it looks like the intention of people stable with the ability to provide his kids space took too long and the judge thinks vacation time off with SO is interrupting their routine... despite stating that kids can adapt. We are gad to have any extra time with the kids. SO does have to put in a little extra time to pick them up an extra 3 days a week, but he is glad to do it. It is also nice that she now has to pick them up. We were sure she would try to negotiate that away in mediation, but she is spiteful enough to do it if it means that the kids do not stay over and SO gets no more extra time.

ESMOD's picture

I'm sure BM is loathe to lose any custody time because it would potentially reduce her paycheck.  I wonder if her DH would be willing to offer to take SS full time (with visits to BM).. but not reduce his CS.  My DH did that when one of his girls wanted to live with us for a while... I know.. not "fair".. but when you have a judge that appears to be very opposed to changing the status quo.. it may be that her DH's options are somewhat limited.. and he may have to offer a pretty sweet deal?

I think that unfortunately a few things are probably working against her DH. First,it's been nearly a decade of this custody schedule.. and in the Judge's mind.. "it works" and we don't try to fix things that aren't broken.  It's not like her DH gets "no" time with his kids.. but the precedent has been long set.. and it might have been more fruitful to pursue it earlier.  I do find it baffling that he can't see the need or benefit to the kids to have a few weeks a year with dad overnight.. to take vacations etc.. esp if dad could be at home those days.  

I also think that many times these judges are frustrated when the parties don't come to an agreement themselves.. and perhaps he sees BM in a more positive light.. maybe in part because she has been the parent who has been there physically for the kids from birth.. while DH is only more recently appearing to try to get that time?  she may seem more sympathetic.

Another factor is now the addition of additional siblings.. which makes BM's home.. even more "keep the family intact" weighted too.. 

And.. if BM is remarried and DH is not? that also could lend some air of appropriateness to a more conservative minded judge.

And.... while I understand that the current situation is not fair... I also realize the reality of people's financial limits and at some point.. things just become to aggravating.. expensive to continue pursuing.. especially when you can expect the kind of ruling he got.

In the end.. I think her DH may have to try to figure out how to be more creative in his approach.  Clearly the kids aren't able to stand up for what they might want.. because BM makes them pay for it.. or bribes them into compliance.  I guess two can play at that game though.. plan a nice family cruise for you all.. and let the kids know.. you have a week long cruise to the caribbean.. and make BM be the bad guy for turning it down.. lol. It may also come about as SS gets older that he is able to drive and make more of his own schedule?  

As far as CPS went.. how happy were they to find that the boy didn't even have a room or real bed.. that's curious

NeverEnough321's picture

BM definitely hating losing a single hour to SO. One of the few small victories was getting the 5th weekend. It might mess with her schedule because I believe that is one of the weekends she gets her SD, and now BM will actually have to spend time with her. I have actually brought up negotiating CS suring mediation to SO, but we are torn. He didn't get enough time from the judge and through the holiday schedule so far to warrant any update/change to CS, 3-4% maybe. There is a good chance it is also not about the money. BM hates that SO packed up and left her. Despite him still seeing the kids, she is STILL making comments about how SO abandoned their family as if she forgot when Stepdad did the same thing a few years ago and she had to go find him and promise that she would change. BM still has a box in her closet that contains pictures, letters, and mementos of when she and SO were together. OSD likes to snoop when her mom isn't home. SO thought that was put to bed when they talked about it 2 years ago and he apologized, but no... BM hates him. When he first served her in 2021, she asked that he sign away his parental rights so stepdad could adopt them and she would waive CS and that SO and I could start our own family. SO called her stupid. Mediations are always short because she agrees to nothing. Not one day. Not one hour. 

Yes, you are also right that in the Judge's mind, it has been this way for so long and the kids are "fine" and get good grades and no one is complaining. That's what happens when you have scared the kids into compliance that they will lie for you and put up with you. They know what life is like when BM is unhappy and they don't want their phones/video games taken away. They don't want to be yelled at. They see their dad fighting for time and losing so they are playing the game the only way they know how and it is to survive in her household. BM is not terrible on paper. She makes sure they are fed (low income kids get meals at school), she makes sure they have clothes and shoes, that they have good grades (kids are at school from 7-6pm as they are ALWAYS signed up for after school daycare/study hall so they're not home), and that they are well behaved (scared to submission). 

I am still trying to wrap my head around the judge not allowing overnights on vacation. SO and lawyer tried to emphasize that he wouldn't work during winter and spring break times... but she really wasn't having it. SO was the last case of the day and maybe she just didn't care. The judge did get a sense of BM's attitude because even when the judge gave SO the 5th weekend and MWF 3-8pm in the summer, BM spoke up that she did not agree. The judge asked her why and BM pretty much said because she wanted to spend time with her kids too (INSERT EYE ROLL). Judge said thats not how it works, and still gave the time to SO. 

I just wanted to clarify that SO has always been around to see the kids, even after he left BM. BUT, on paper, it looks as if he hasn't. I started documenting the times we saw them in around 2018. We included that in the first round of court and BM hated it. She hated that I documented YSD's case of lice she got from her step sister. I had only documented it because I summarize the events of each day, like a quick journal entry. I hadn't detailed where the lice came from, only that I helped comb them out and shampooed. BM saw this as trying to accuse her of being a bad mom and tried to blame the skids' cousins from when she slept over here. 

Everything you have said... is true. SO's judge is more conservative and we do believe she looked down on the fact that we were not married. I guess we thought that being in a more progressive state, it wouldn't matter too much. We have been together for almost 7 years and almost half the time skids have been alive! Keeping their family together is understandable and really sucks because we know that stepdad only provides for his biokids. I don't know if it is an agreement BM and Stepdad made, but they buy stuff for their own kids and thats it. YSD10 sees it and gets sad. When stepdad comes home from work, he only hugs bio kids and brings them toys. SO tried to make up for it and makes sure she feels safe to talk about her feelings to him. He'll occasionally buy her the toy she couldn't get from stepdad. 

It's tough to get creative with someone who won't budge. SO and I have talked this situation to death. We have little hope this final mediation will progress and can only hope that the mediators recommend something to the judge. We are a non reporting county, but since this round of mediation was ordered by the judge, the mediators might be able to have some say. Gotta ask the lawyer. SO doesn't want to play BM's game at this point. I think he's tired and really just wants her stay out of our business. She has already played the victim card "I'm sorry I can't afford all the stuff your dad can, please be grateful that I can get you anything" despite not wanting SO to have any legal custody. The kids take the new stuff we get them for birthdays and christmas, like shoes or clothes, and won't weat them in front of her because she'll get upset. BM brought up in court that she has to take them to appointments and school and shopping, and the judge told her that it was her job as CP. That's what CS is for. And that shut her up. 

As for SS... he seems content now. The love bombing continues and he spends hours on his new phone. Since he graduated from 8th grade, he has been rotting away at home or at grandma's a block away. He stays up until 2-4am talking to friends because he's not allowed to see them. BM didn't put him or OSD in camp or summer school or sports. OSD had cheer camp for less than a week. BM almost didn't pay for it because OSD gave her lip about her other family (us) paying for it. SO considered it, but had to put his foot down about BM being responsible for it. BM refuses to ask for it because SO could not help with SS's braces a few years ago since SO was laid off, and she took that as never asking SO for money ever again. Well, its years later and none of the kids have braces. SS seems content with his situation as long as he is left alone over there. We try to provide a home where he has his own space. For his birthday, we gave him a nice little desk set up in his room with a new keyboard and mouse so he didn't have to use his laptop on the coffee table. In the end, SS knows whats up. He's scared of his mom and also has no confidence in the court system. We just hope that the kids will see the light as they get older. SO reminds them often that they have a home here and that they have choices, but they need to be willing to commit if he were to take action. 

We brought up no bed to the judge and she just said that is just how some families live. People sleep on the floor. SO is hesitant to call CPS because he doesn't think the kids are in danger, just that their situation is difficult. He feels guilty that their mom hates him enough to deprive them anything they have here. He doesn't want to make it worse. 

Almost everything you mentioned was pretty spot on. Hopefully we can just get past this last mediation and move on. Thank you for your thoughts!

ESMOD's picture

I guess the small ray of light here is that your DH's kids don't hate him.. and while BM has them on short leashes.. she doesn't appear to have had a major impact on how they feel towards him.

I mean.. she can cow them into being good kids.. she can buffalo your DH and not mediate in mediation.. she can make her kids afraid to step up and ask for themselves more time with dad.. but in the end.. it doesn't sound like the kids are too disrespectful or problematic in  your home.. that they are still pretty good kids all things considered.

There are a TON of people on this site that would like to have relatively scarce visitation with good kids.. lots have too much visitation with crappy kids.  In the end.. I think his kids realize he HAS tried to fight for more time.. 

And.. I would still broach subjects of vacations.. that are going to be "too good" for the kids to want to pass up.. and take a page from BM's book and make her be the one to say NO (or maybe even the occasional yes?)

I know it's discouraging.. but I think his kids do love them.. but everyone is kind of trapped in their current situation.. and his ex may find that when the kids do get older they resent her for not allowing them to have more time with their father.

I would also add that he should do all he can to get knowledge on any sports events.. practices.. assemblies at school etc.. and attend as much as possible.. it's a public venue.. she can't stop him.

NeverEnough321's picture

After reading an absurd amount of posts here looking for help, I am very grateful to have skids as they are. They are respectful (as much as teenagers can be), appreciative, and pretty open about their lives outside of BMs home. OSD loves to talk about her crushes and friends and shows weird pictures she takes of them. SS likes to brag about his accomplishments and stuff BM lets him do. It's a 30 minute brag sesh when BM lets him go to the mall with his friends, not to diminish us, but to talk about the rare times he's allowed to be a normal teen. YSD (10) is still figuring it out. I think OSD and SS try to shield her from it. We sometimes say they are her parents over there because OSD still helps her with her hair and tells her what to do (she grew up doing it because BM was too busy with step dads kids) and SO asked SS to try and hang out with her more because she doesn't get a lot of attention. Both OSD and SS have confirmed this without us prying. 

I will bring up to SO about vacations. It wouldn't hurt to try it out. Once it is time for school registration, SO will be putting his name on the contact lists and overall will be trying to be more active himself. No more having BM tell him what he can attend. We will  show up. I am just worried that we will be putting the kids in another awkward situation. BM has a thing about having the kids in her control on strictly her time and strictly SOs time. Last summer, BM put skids in flag football and let us know that they would be on Saturday mornings. We made sure to bring them on our weekends, and still attend on her weekends, to show support! Well, on BM weekends, the kids were absolutely not allowed to talk to us or be near us. This happens a lot. YSD would come say hi and give SO a hug but would run back to BM and Stepdad. SO would say Hi to SS and wave him over, SS would shake his head and walk straight to BM. I could cry thinking about it now. On our weekends, BM still needed to show up because one of her kids with Step dad was also in the toddler flag football course. We never kept the kids from her, we even encouraged them to go say hi. How cruel would it be to keep them away. The toddler session would end early and BM and Stepdad would leave right after, never staying for skids because it wasn't their weekend and they "had things to do". I'll probably write a seperate post about similar events. 

We have also attended OSD's cheer performances, but we only knew about them because they are on our time. We gently let the kids know that we would love to go to ANYTHING of theirs, they just need to let us know! We will do our best to stay up to date with the school calendar. 

CastleJJ's picture

This similar situation happened to my DH. DH and BM were together on and off in high school. BM broke up with DH the second she found out she was pregnant and immediately pulled the "it's my child, not yours." After SS was born, DH pursued joint custody with some free legal aid attorney. Mediation was a waste with BM too, she refused everything but expected full CS. Their court battle drug on for two years due to BM constantly filing continuances, during which, BM withheld all contact with SS. DH had only met him three times before SS' second birthday, despite DH begging to see him. When the court was finally ready to rule, BM explained that DH had barely been around SS so he could only get short visits. The courts agreed and approved 4 hour visits every weekend - one 4 hour visit at DH's house and the other at BM's with BM present. Oh and DH and BM lived an hour and a half apart and drive time was included in the 4 hours. Oh and DH was to do ALL the driving. And BM was granted sole legal and physical custody since they were never married. It was a joke. DH followed this stupid arrangement for years, constantly trying to go back to court or mediation to change it, which was a total fail. BM refused to agree and courts refused to make a decision. BM refused holiday visits, since it wasn't listed in the CO. She would offer DH an occasional Christmas Eve or Easter, only to take it away the day before. We didn't get a single holiday with SS until he was 8. Everything was about BM and her family - couldn't get a holiday because her family had traditions with SS. Couldn't get BM to do any visitation driving because she drove him 5 miles to and from daycare everyday. Couldn't get more visitation because SS was HER son and BM didn't feel DH deserved it. 

In 2017, BM informed DH that she was moving out of state to be a with a woman she met online. DH didn't know she was dating, nor did he know she had been planning a move for close to a year. We lawyered up, but the lawyer told him without joint custody and an extensive visitation schedule, DH would lose since he only saw SS 4 hours a week. DH was crushed. We used BM's move to try to create a solid long distance parenting plan. DH asked for 6 weeks of summer visitation and alternating holiday breaks - BM agreed to 4 weeks of summer, broken up in two two week blocks and alternating holiday breaks, promising to eventually increase the summer visitation. DH agreed. BM moved and everything became total hell. BM removed DH from all academic and medical records, listing her GF as the other parent and therefore barring DH from accessing information. When DH asked questions about SS and his well-being, he was met with pages upon pages of emails harassing and abusing him. DH even received communication from GF, threatening CPS. It was insane. When SS was with us, we weren't allowed to enroll him in childcare, we weren't allowed to seek medical attention if he was sick, we weren't allowed to do anything. And BM refused to allow DH to do any of it without her permission and full vetting. After every visit, BM would email DH a list of demands and ridicule every single action of his parenting - SS staying up later, SS eating sugar, SS being around family or friends she didn't like, etc. So, back to court we went in 2019, because it came to the point where DH couldn't even parent SS during our time. 

Court was a complete waste of time. DH wasn't asking for anything unreasonable. He was asking for 6-8 weeks of consecutive summer visitation and joint legal custody. The judge told DH that he was keeping him at 4 weeks of summer visitation in two two week blocks due to SS' sport obligations (from evidence that was fabricated by BM and SS' coach/BM's BFF) and he denied joint legal custody. He told DH that BM and GF would be raising SS and to "accept your court ordered visitation, pay your CS, and let the rest go." The judge also told DH that if he ever came back to court, the outcome would remain the same. The judge is refusing to give DH more time from now until SS is 18. The CO also gave BM the ability to move DH's time around or break it up due to sports so now, whenever she wants to deny the two two week summer blocks, she provides proof of a sport and has full authority to break it down into single weeks or less. After court, BM continued to abuse DH via the court order and his visitation so DH gave up. DH sees SS as court ordered, talks to him twice a week on the phone and that's it. When BM emails, DH always responds "Thanks for the update." He doesnt ask questions, he doesn't do anything extra, and he doesn't get more involved. BM has mostly backed off on the drama and abuse, but sometimes when she is bored or she's mad at something in our life (like the birth of our DD), she rears her head. This summer's claim to fame was that SS isn't comfortable to be away from BM longer than 2 weeks, despite doing this schedule for 6 years. She requested that DH move his time around to accommodate sports, so when we asked for three consecutive weeks, she said "No" but then gave him a two week block and two one week blocks. DH will never get a single second, hour, or day of additional time outside of the CO. 

DH and I dealing with this has been the hardest thing we have ever faced. We realize now, in hindsight, that BM planned the pregnancy and every action to maintain sole custody from Day 1; she had it all planned out. She wanted a baby without the annoyance of dealing with a Dad. The only error in her plan was that she didn't expect DH to fight; she thought she could bully him into walking away from the start. We can't understand why a BM would do this to a child out of hate and why the courts condone it. We know there is nothing more we can do and we refuse to invest any more resources into this losing fight, especially when the judge said he won't ever change his mind. We have both been through counseling and while we are over the initial grief, the sadness still lingers sometimes. SS is now 11 and we are nothing more than extended relatives to him. We just hope that when SS becomes an adult, he sees the truth and decides to have a relationship with us. 

NeverEnough321's picture

I am so sorry about your situation which is so extreme. I am beginning to see a lot of terrible experiences with judges, more than I expected. I had a very sad moment with SO when I told him I realized I had been living in a bubble and that reality is setting in. No matter how many things you do right, how much you deserve something, even a chance, the system will work against you. It is sad to see that a father fighting to be in a child's life is not enough. 

It sounds like your DH did everything he possibly could and it was just a battle from day 1. While my situation pales in comparison, I understand the lingering sadness. We made a lot of plans when we naively thought SS would come live with us. I don't drive past the high school we were planning on transferring him to anymore. It sounds a little dumb, but it's a reminder of what we lost and I definitely get sad when I see it. I just drive a different way home from work now.

It seems like your BM is a far more crazy version of mine, but maybe under the same umbrella. Controlling is definitely the right word. BM let SO have the kids for Easter for a few hours, we try to set up an egg hunt every year with their cousins. She cut it down to 2 hours after she found out he had driven his sister somewhere one night on our weekend and YSD had gotten a stomach ache and thrown up. I took care of it and OSD was a great help, but since SO was not there at the moment, that was bad parenting and BM is apparently judge jury and executioner so she cut his time. 

There is definitely minimal communication now through TalkingParents. Just pictures and "I'm outside". We have records of her saying some pretty dumb stuff, but nothing the judge would care about. "Don't ask the kids about school. That is none of your concern" or "Holidays are just a suggestion". The judge didn't admonish her for not discussing a holiday plan, she just sent SO and BM back to mediation and told her to be more open minded. We sane people know how that'll end up. 

We are also at the point that we are ready for all of this to end. Our lawyer felt bad that she couldn't get us what she thought and that we got a shit jugde. I think the judge even killed her spirit. How could we non-lawyers even stand a chance. We're considering marriage, we are pretty much there anyways minus a certificate. We thought being in a progressive state that it wouldn't be that big of a deal. We have our own finances, our own benefits with our respective jobs, and split costs when they need to be. Not sure if getting married now will make a difference, though. The judge will probably find a way to throw it out. 

Thank you for sharing your experience. I hope you and your family are doing better. 

CastleJJ's picture

You are grieving just like we are. Finding an alternative route to avoid passing the school and other scenarios are all forms of trauma and grief. DH and I actually moved away from where BM used to live after she moved. Being in that same city where so many things happened was just too painful. SS moved away 6 years ago and whenever we go back to that area to see DH's family, it's still sad - less sad, but still sad. Any man or SM who deals with a HCBM will have some sort of trauma dealing with all the crazy. The system is broken and unlikely to be reformed. Just know you are doing the best you can for your family and your situation, despite what the system tells you isn't enough 

Thumper's picture

1.  "The court order has just come out and it only states MWF for the summer. SO and Lawyer remembers the judge stating all school vacation, but that doesnt matter anymore."

NOT necessarly true,

A/who wrote the order? Bm's lawyer? (eyeball roll)

B/ pay for the darn transcript...this week. GET IT GET IT GET IT. now before it magically goes away.

Edit to add:

Or not. That is totally up to dh.

 

 

 

 

NeverEnough321's picture

Thank you! I actually just emailed the lawyer about the transcript. A friend of mine had asked if the mediators pulled the transcript after the whole mediation confusion of what the judge said. I'm unsure of who wrote the order, but I will check as soon as SO has free time. Hopefully it could help with mediation. If SO remembered wrong... we'll just have to go from there.