thinkthrice's picture

Attorney Consult Update...what would you do?

Met with Chef's attorney today. Although in the past I have never put down my income (we are not married), he now wants to include my income on the forms. This is in interest of wanting "complete disclosure."

Also because with Chef's income it would look like he would never be able to afford CS on his own and would impute anyway.

I have a real problem with this.

We are thinking of dropping the constructive emancipation by conduct modification and leaving sleeping dogs lie thus continuing with the current (obscene) CS rate. It is HIGHLY unlikely that the Girhippo will forego CS unless she can continue ZERO contact/communication with Chef and can retain her complete control over the skids, despite her failure to appear in court and the letter she wrote.

WWYD?

Dontfeedthetrolls's picture

If it appears that Chief

If it appears that Chief can't afford CS on his own income than how does adding yours help. As you said you're not married. You could walk away tomorrow even if you didn't BM can not come after your funds.

I don't see how this is apart of complete disclosure. It's invasive and overstepping.

It's fine to share that you live together and so his rent is lower. That he pays less in bills. Stuff like that but unless I had a judge saying I had to tell what I made I'd tell the lawyer no.

Some days are hard but you just fight through them to get to the good ones.

lieutenant_dad's picture

Pretty much all of this. Chef

Pretty much all of this.

Chef has only been able to survive as long as he has because of your income. Gir doesn't need to know anything about you.

Dontfeedthetrolls's picture

Double post please delete

Double post please delete

Some days are hard but you just fight through them to get to the good ones.

futurobrillante99's picture

Your income should not be

Your income should not be taken into consideration at all - even if you were married. I would stand my ground and say NO.

Respond that when Daddy Big Bucks reveals his tax returns and full income statement, you'll consider sharing yours. CONSIDER.

thinkthrice's picture

I did ask this and Chef's

I did ask this and Chef's attorney said he does have to supply his income information (they are married.)

Author of "The Guilty Parent Trap"--Amazon Kindle

moving_on_again's picture

No way in hell. I mean, if

No way in hell. I mean, if you were married, I could see that they'd want a tax return that might have your income on it but what's keeping you from moving out today? Then your income wouldn't even exist.

Peanut575's picture

I thought Girhippo was

I thought Girhippo was relinquishing CS for your SD and YSS?

I wouldn't provide it. Your income should have nothing to do with CS. If the courts ever wanted my info & wanted to factor that into what DH pays for his sons I'd honestly consider divorce!

thinkthrice's picture

She would only relinquish it

She would only relinquish it if she retained total control over the skids and continues zero contact with Chef. Chef was asking for a grade GPA and attendance stipulation for college and that was what really got her goat

Author of "The Guilty Parent Trap"--Amazon Kindle

Peanut575's picture

Ahhh right, sorry you

Ahhh right, sorry you mentioned that in your post! I can see why you'd want to continue w CS then. I would never give BM or a lawyer my income info. You didn't make those kids, what you bring in should never play a part (knowing full well in some areas that does happen, and it makes me Barf! )

StarsMom's picture

You are not a legal party to

You are not a legal party to this matter and while the bills the two of you share can be said to be split with a partner you are in no way responsible to show your income. No judge would care and no child support formula would include it.

I think the lawyer is seriously overreaching and should be told to use only Dad's income.

thinkthrice's picture

Chef's attorney was like "you

Chef's attorney was like "you live together, right? you're part of the household your income has to go on the form"-- which Chef's attorney thinks is a mere formality anyway.

Author of "The Guilty Parent Trap"--Amazon Kindle

moving_on_again's picture

I'd move out.

I'd move out.

Peanut575's picture

This is what I don't

This is what I don't understand about that. Why should it be 'household' income on the form? What if there was an adult kid living in the home who was working & paid rent to be there, but was SM's kid & unrelated to SK... should their info & rent paid also factor in? How many people does it take to support a BM???

I know this is just my 0.02 and courts don't give a rats a-hole what I think, but to me the people who make the babies should be financially on the hook. End of story.

Cover1W's picture

Our state does this. I

Our state does this.
I checked the law.
My income, if we lived in the same house even if unmarried, would be considered part of the household income and if not explicitly included in the CS calculation - would be considered as helping with living expenses and thus, indirectly IMHO PO'd opinion, part of the CS calculation.

I'd ask the lawyer if it's state law to include it, if so, you may have to unless you move out.

SMs and some SFs are screwed no matter what if CS gets looked at once they are together.

****Just remember to breathe and have a glass of champagne every so often****

thinkthrice's picture

apparently, yes here in nys.

apparently, yes here in nys. that's why I went out of my way to use the pre 2010 forms that won't count granny's SS income who happens to be living with the payOR of CS.

On the plus side, the attorney is "friends" with the Gir's attorney and feels he can strike a bargain.

Author of "The Guilty Parent Trap"--Amazon Kindle

Peanut575's picture

That's so wrong to me. Why

That's so wrong to me. Why should SM have less of her own money b/c more of DH or SO's money now goes to BM?

I remember reading an article someone posted on here a few months ago where the BM was legally entitled to CS from the SM after she divorced BD, even though BD was still alive & paying CS. Unreal.

thinkthrice's picture

Chef's attorney seems to

Chef's attorney seems to think that is impossible.

Author of "The Guilty Parent Trap"--Amazon Kindle

I love dogs's picture

Isn't it filed with the court

Isn't it filed with the court that the Gir requested to forego all CS AND is willing to facilitate the means for Chef and skids to reconcile?

thinkthrice's picture

yep. Chef's attorney read

yep. Chef's attorney read the letter and admitted she is batshit crazy, but this is NYS where the state has the "best interests of the child" in view and will rule against CS being dropped.

Author of "The Guilty Parent Trap"--Amazon Kindle

thebrokenrecordmachine's picture

I am not an attorney or have

I am not an attorney or have any sort of legal background by any capacity. I live in Canada and typically, our laws are somewhat similar to yours in the USA- generally the guidelines are kind of the same. But what I can tell you from experience, in 2014/15 BM had filed for an increase in CS and the B got her lawyer (as SO could not afford one at the time), to impute my income as SO was claiming hardship, CS did go down as I was pregnant and there was a change in circumstance. We were living together, so the household income was used but I will say- I did not have to pay CS to her- she wanted my university school records with grades, my tax returns, how much CS I was receiving for my daughter- it was fucking crazy. I gave it to her, like a m-o-r-o-n but marked out my sin # and any other important #s. (Turns out I shouldn't have given my info to her- ANY of it, as we were common law and living together under 3 years- with no child, yet).

I told SO never again will I be involved in this, and on paper we are separated as I am to provide my tax return info to her every year and we aren't even fucking married- it is insane- I got this idea from the lovely ladies on here a few years ago.

Look up what the laws are for common law couples and married couples...it sounds like his lawyer is trying to be above board, maybe you could move out or convince his lawyer, you are leaving him because this is too much stress on you- not sure if you could even claim spousal support as he has maintained a certain lifestyle for you- I don't know- this may be a little far fetched.

What I do know is that step parents are not responsible for CS unless they have adopted the child or the child lived with the bio and step parent full time and the relationship ended between the step parent and the bio parent, the step parent can be on hook for CS for the kid, even though its not biologically his, insane the laws here in Canada. So a BM can receive CS from the dad and the step-dad at the same time.

So yep, I am protecting my family from the wicked witch.

Its up to you, if you want to be honest or protect your sanity- its a tough spot to be in- Given my past experience as I took the honest route (now I'm taking the sane route): I would separate on paper, move out, something- if she is as nosey as mine that is the only way to protect your sanity and keep peace in your life. How long is CS going to continue on for? - if you can handle a few years of paying CS than take the honest route and provide the info, just block out your ssn and any other pertinent numbers in the paper work. If you have had enough- time to separate on paper or physically. Sorry if this is long. Best of luck. Most people lie in court anyways.

thinkthrice's picture

CS is to continue to Nov 2020

CS is to continue to Nov 2020 for SD (21) and Jan 2024 for YSS ( but he is the wild child and will probably not go to college / move out when he is 18)

Author of "The Guilty Parent Trap"--Amazon Kindle

Salems Lot's picture

You are right. Here in

You are right. Here in Canada, if a parent can prove undue hardship (which is actually rare) and by comparing total house hold incomes, it can either increase or decrease CS.

Also a custodial mother can get child support from both the bio father and the step father that was living with her and if the step father had a higher income than the bio father....This works for custodial fathers as well but is rare.

The custodial mother can also get CS from the step dad if he stood in place of the bio father. This also works with custodial fathers too.

A non custodial step parent can also be on the hook IF it can be proven that his or her income helped to provide for the needs the step kids.

When I found this out, I made sure anything I gave the skids were gifts given on Birthdays and Holidays.

SO and I are not married and we do not claim common law on our taxes. We were told we don't have to. We keep everything separate.

Lord, give me coffee to change the things I can change and wine to accept the things I can't.

Narcissist (n): a more polite term for a self-serving, manipulative, evil a$$hole with no soul.

thebrokenrecordmachine's picture

- it duplicated.

- it duplicated.

Sweet T's picture

When my sister was unmarried

When my sister was unmarried and living with her husband she had to share her unemployment income during her now husband's review.

Goodluck's picture

Your not married and this

Your not married and this relationship CAN end at any moment. WTH.

Have your 'boyfriends' lawyer site YOU the states code that requires room mates to disclose financials in for a custody case. That is bs Thinkthrice.

Do not hand this over to anyone without being strong armed WITH back up state codes.

Hmmmm, lets see how much money is at dads disposal to fight and fight for years and years in family court. Thinktrice can pay the bills and dad's income (or most of it) can pay lawyer fees.

I have heard of this before during request for productions. MOVE Out if you have too. Heck married couples pretend to be seperated to collect stuff, why not people who are NOT married.

NOPE.....NOPE NOPE....I would find a new lawyer too. HE IS FISHING to see how far HE can go.

JMO

The second type of triangulation is a cross-generational coalition in which one parent forms a coalition with the child against the other parent. This is the type of triangulation involved in the pathology traditionally called “parental alienation”.

thinkthrice's picture

At this point I am leaning

At this point I am leaning toward dropping the whole thing and letting the Girhippo have her way. Chef also said he was not going to try to restart any relationship with the extremely toxic PASed out skids while he was actively paying child support so that is a plus.

It was a nice thought probably best to let them age out. What it boils down to is Chef should have never ever started his business before child support ended.

Author of "The Guilty Parent Trap"--Amazon Kindle

Livingoutloud's picture

I have never heard of

I have never heard of anyone’s girlfriends required to provide incomes to anyone. Many girlfriends and boyfriends have completely separate finances and don’t contribute to each other at all even if they share a bed or a house etc Are you filing taxes together? If not how is it anyone’s business what you make? If he can’t afford to pay CS then it needs to be lowered to reflect what he makes. Girlfriend’s income is irrelevant here. It might be your choice to help him with CS but not an obligation. This is crazy making.

I’d move out before I subimiited my income and my DH pays huge alimony to lazy BM and we are actually married.

thinkthrice's picture

nope no taxes together.

nope no taxes together.

Author of "The Guilty Parent Trap"--Amazon Kindle

BethAnne's picture

If and only if it is mandated

If and only if it is mandated in your state and there is no way around this (I would pay for a consultation with a different lawyer to verify) then I would consider giving the information. At the end of the day I do not see what BM can really do with it, other than be jealous. The state will have a set way to calculate the payments and I would rather pay a few extra dollars if my income was included than pay hundreds or thousands more to live separately from my partner. I understand your reluctance, but if it really is the way things are done where you are then there may be little you can do about it. Refusing to reveal the information, so preventing any court action, may be more harmful than just revealing it.

grace8205's picture

No way would I ever want any

No way would I ever want any of my information given. In Canada a step parent can end up paying child support even after the break up as long as Loco Parentis can be established and your information being used is one more step in establishing that. Check your local laws but I would absolutely refuse.

“Similarly, for married couples, the federal Divorce Act defines a “child of the marriage” to include “any child for whom [the couple] both stand in the place of parents, and any child of whom one is the parent and for whom the other stands in the place of a parent.” This is frequently called the loco parentis test.

In determining whether someone has stood in loco parentis to a child, a court will consider a number of factors, including:

how long the person was in a parenting role;
the level of the person’s involvement in the child’s day-to-day life, discipline, extra-curricular activities, and schooling;
whether the person contributed financially to the child during the relationship;
whether the child participated in activities, holidays, etc with the person’s extended family;
the person’s relationship with the child after separation, including whether the person exercised visitation rights or continued to participate in the child’s activities;
whether the child referred to the person as their parent;
the involvement of the biological parent in the child's life; and
any discussion relating to the possible adoption of the child.
As you’ve probably guessed by now, for the court to properly consider these factors takes time, evidence and therefore money.

Retreat is not an Option

Once the loco parentis bond is formed, the step-parent cannot withdraw from it unilaterally. Just like a biological parent that cuts contact with their children, a withdrawn step parent can be required to continue payments. The court will focus on both the child’s need for support and the child’s perception of their relationship with the step-parent.

While the court has discretion as to the amount of support payable, the presumption is that the standard Child Support Guideline amounts will apply to biological and step-children alike.”
http://www.christiecummings.com/news-blog/2013/04/23/step-parents-can-pa...

thinkthrice's picture

We haven't seen any skid

We haven't seen any skid since September of 2009.

But that's all the more reason for SM to disengage if you are having visitations!!!

Author of "The Guilty Parent Trap"--Amazon Kindle