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OT-I don't know if going to the doctor helped.....long sorry

mommadukes2015's picture

*** I sliced this blog in half if you just want to know what DCP's reaction to all of this was***

So I took BD to her doctor today to follow up on the list of reports I have been getting from DCP. I need to process all of the information I was given as well as start the process of figuring out where I come down on all of this.

So I'm going to do it here, because my brain works best through my keyboard.

The doctor observed BD for a little more than an hour. We discussed that this appointment resulted from the slew of reports I've been getting from DCP as far as non-compliance, heckling her friends and her behavior at home-pro-longed tantruming, "pin balling" or bouncing from one activity to the next, to the next, the way she plays with children she is comfortable with (trying to control them and what their doll says to her doll), constantly trying to control me, demanding attention, knowingly breaking rules to see the reaction, non-compliance with requests, bedtime troubles.

I detailed for him some of DCP's more Broadway style reports and he had the same question many of you have "does this woman understand children at all?". I think she does-but what I'm quickly finding the problem to be is DCP's inability to effectively communicate with adults.

I digress, the doctor and I discussed BD's behaviors. He suggested that I highly structure her home routine. Now the mornings are pretty structured already, there's a lot to do and we're trying to beat the clock. In the evening, it's a different story, we are much more lax and I expect BD to pick an activity or play while I make dinner (she's not at a point where she can help with this yet-plus it's my zen time). His suggestion was that I structure that time to avoid the behavioral problems I'm seeing. Now, bath nights are generally pretty good, and that's because there's more structured activity on bath nights, so he thinks that this is a good indicator that structuring that time with table top activities and a quiet activity will help before her bedtime routine begins. Structure evening routine, got it. 10-4, will do. I think he's onto something.

Then we discussed sharing and how she interacts with her familiar friends vs. new friends. New friends, Doc says, she's trying to win over, old friends on the other hand she has already put into the "safe" category and feels comfortable being more controlling of them. He also asked if she was demanding or controlling of me, to which I told him she was (and she can be). He said that this is a result of her 3 year old brain working to confirm that she is loved. This upset me. I shared with the doctor that we tell her she's "our best peanut ever" (she started telling us "you're the best Mama/Daddy ever" a few months ago) and we do tell her often how loved she is. He said that her 3 year old brain's "love language" seems to fall into that whole "acts of service" theory. She is equating our meeting her needs or requests for a snack or water as proof that she is loved because that's the plane she's working on in her current developmental state. On the flip side, there is often times tensions and frustration thrown in there when I'm elbow deep in hamburger and she's demanding apple juice. Usually I try to tell her that I'll be right there, and she tantrums. After about 5 minutes of this and 10 different requests and trying to reason with her, I start to lose my head. I need to work on that.
*note to self you need to find a better way to help her understand she needs to wait because she does need to wait sometimes. Ask Play Therapist.

His next recommendation is that she isn't getting the opportunity to calm her self down from her day effectively which is impacting her sleep. He suggested that she might be experiencing some somatosensory issues as far as this goes and suggested a weighted blanket before bed. I know what weighted blankets are, I've seen the wonders they work-I am genuinely intrigued to see if this will help our night time routine (which is the most routine routine we have ever routined- we stick to it religiously and have since she was an infant-we are consistent with this, have been for 3 years at this point and it is NOT fun).

Finally, he recommended that we see a play therapist. He feels that if we can observe someone working with her to explain the importance of being a good friend, following the rules and making good choices on her level-she will benefit and we will benefit from learning how best she communicates from a professional. I'm honestly, very excited about this. I DO need to work on ways to better communicate with her little mind. Like I said I can do 10+ all day ever day, but toddlers are uncharted territory for me and honestly I had never been interested in child psychology until I worked at the Psychiatric Hospital with 10-13 year olds and I was actually pretty good at it-but I had a lot of help, modeling and training. I'm also really good with the ID/DD pop. I've been doing that for years, again with modeling and lots of training. I don't know why this is different, but I'm hoping, that all of this will result in a better understanding and more calm for our home and I am definitely a learn by example kind of person.

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So I get all of this information and on our 30 minute drive back to DCP's I am trying to plan out in my head how to present all of this information to this DCP who I perceive as incredibly close minded already and try to remind myself not be close minded to her reaction. And not to let her rattle me (I don't know why but she just has a knack for that).

Anyway, I begin to detail for DCP how the appointment went. Now, I have to choose my words carefully otherwise I'll set her off. Apparently I didn't chose my words correctly today. She cut me off and sparked another amazing DCP lecture.

Here are the highlights:

-"When my husband overheard you say that you were taking her to the doctor the other night_______"
I don't know the rest of that sentence because my brain tuned out after she said "my husband". I don't care what your husband thinks. I really don't. **Don't be close-minded self, breathe, hear her out** (my new mantra)
-Parents today don't know how to parent properly. My husband said that if BD spent a week with Grandma I'm sure she'd be fine (UHM no. This is just utter and complete farce. My mother lets BD stay up until midnight in the off chance she takes her for an overnight (that happens maybe 3-5 times per year) because SHE can't get her to go to bed (BD will literally lay there and talk your ear off all night). My mother is also the one who constantly tells me that SO and I are too strict with BD and we need to "let her be a kid". I'm considering sending my Mom there to pick up BD tonight so she can set DCP straight on this-that we DO have rules we DO enforce them, but for some reason, there's a breakdown somewhere, something is not working and I'm trying to pin point it).

-All schools and doctors do is label children.
LABEL SMABLE. If I label my child a dinosaur and I treat her like a dinosaur she's going to start acting like a dinosaur. Why? Self full-filling prophecies ARE a thing. That might be the only thing I got out of my child psychology class in Undergrad. If you can check your own objectivity and work not to project a preconceived notion onto someone else (ie you're going to see the behavior you look for) then there is no harm in putting a face on a problem. I call BS on this.

-YOU ie me-need to pick a parenting style and stick with it. And you need to decide what morals you want her to grow up with. The internet is a great resource.
The internet is full of whatever you want it to be full of, I could find you 10 articles that support my stance in this whole discussion and 10 that support yours, the internet is not objective, it is subjective based on what you're looking for. For example I can't tell you how many horror stories I've read recently about "over critical DCP's" and how many articles I've read about "overactive children". It's all about what you want to know. I need objective opinions which is what I am seeking. I am doing it the only way I know how: DCP and Doc are 2 completely different people, with two completely different approaches to children and different backgrounds. Ask both, compare notes, find middle ground and work it. Which is what I'm doing tyvm. It's called vetting information. And THAT is a moral I want my child to grow up with-learn to think for yourself.

Now this last part is TOTALLY indicative of why I put up with this sh*t from DCP because THIS was actually good information that I would like to know:

-BD does well with table top activities and expectations when she's consistently presented with them.

HOLY CRAP, that sounds like structure. GO ON.
-BD can do workbook activities for up to 10 minutes and DCP is working on getting her up to 15 minutes. Then she is allowed to switch activities but she is expected to stay the duration of the time to complete the activity and BD DOES.

NOW. THERE IS SOME INFORMATION I COULD USE (of course last week it was a completely different story but whatever).

She then made suggestions on how to structure her night time routine, that actually co-insides with the doctor's suggestions. DCP does this with BD on a regular basis, whereas I have not even thought to try it. So knowing now what I know, I have a starting point of how to structure our evening routine.

I feel much better now that I have sorted this all out. I figured it would be better here than just in a word document I'm going to save to my desktop and probably reference 1 or 2 times before moving it to the trash.

And while I'm collecting opinions, if you have made it through all of this-thank you and feel free to weigh in. I appreciate perspective and I'm going to need it to make sure I don't end up in a medical rabbit hole. Which is entirely possible.

Comments

Peridwen's picture

BS5 was terrible about waiting his turn. One of the things his Montessori teacher does (and we now copy at home) is to get down to eye level and say "BS, I am doing another work right now/working with another friend right now. I need you to wait until I've completed my current work and then I promise I will listen & help you. You may wait at the workstation or you may wait in the waiting chair. Thank you." If she expects that it will be longer than 5 minutes of waiting (they do 1 minute per year of age as a standard of how long a child can be doing nothing while waiting) she will ask BS to choose a different work to complete while he waits for her, and she will promise to come over and help clean up the waiting work.

Then she after she finishes the current thing she is doing (which may be short or long) she will immediately go to BS and say "Thank you for waiting so patiently. What would you like to tell me/need help with?"

It is really effective and BS5 has gotten really good at accepting that he needs to wait. BSalmost3 is learning this same way. He's not quite as patient as BS5, but he does accept that he needs to wait if I'm cooking or going to the bathroom.

The key is making sure you as the adult are paying attention to what you are doing so that the kids see that you are following through on your word about when they will get their needs/wants.

ETA: I would be very unhappy with the way your DCP speaks to you. It's dismissive and condescending. She's literally calling you a bad parent. If I were in your place, I'd be looking for a new DCP. But I'm not seeing the whole picture, so please take my opinion with a grain of salt.

mommadukes2015's picture

Thank you Peridwen. I do need to take more time to redirect her appropriately-I do have inclinations that some of the behavioral issues at home are a direct result of how I respond to her demands when I'm in the middle of doing a lot of things at once. I am here by myself 90% of the day, between working, BD and SS who is on the spectrum and his routine needs, I get overwhelmed and tense. I think that's my take-away for the day because when I do get on her level and make her look me in the eye, she does much better than when I blow my stack.

As far as DCP goes, I'm not very happy with the way she speaks to me either and she is essentially calling me a bad parent which she has no grounds for and is completely unfair. I do believe that DCP's structure and routine of her Daycare are good for BD which a big part of why I switched her. I don't know what she needs to know for pre-school and it's better that someone intentionally teaches her these expectations than it is just going to someone's home to hangout for the day. I value that. But in life we encounter people who we don't necessarily jive with, I have learned over the years that it's the people that are the hardest on you that help you grow the most if you're willing to just stick it out and keep yourself in check. My ego isn't bruised, it's extremely delicate when it comes to parenting and your children-and I'd be lying if I said she doesn't consistently upset me, but I can tolerate her nonsense especially if it means some demented version of personal growth for BD and I.

Peridwen's picture

If the adult communication is a problem then maybe verbal communication is not ideal in your situation. Ask for a written evaluation of the situation. Or politely say something like "I am happy with the level of care provided for DD. However the communication between the two of us appears to be failing. I would like to either change our communication style or ask a third party to come in and help us understand each other." In a lower comment you've mentioned that DCP's family is all licensed. Maybe her husband needs to be the one to talk to you about issues. Maybe you need to see if your DH will help with the communication lines.

I had to do that with an employee I had once. We just could not seem to talk to each other. I wound up calling in my boss to facilitate a meeting and interpreting for us. She was originally nervous because she thought she was being fired, but once she realized that wasn't the case we were able to work something out. It did end up with her on mostly different shifts than I worked, but when we worked together she was able to tell me if she wasn't understanding without either of us getting angry.

momof3smof2's picture

I think your dcp is unorganized, chaotic, looney-toon who cannot effectively communicate. It Sounds like you are on to something with your daughter, now I would focus on finding a new day care provider.

mommadukes2015's picture

It's hard to explain and after talking with a few of my co-workers it seems to be not too uncommon-but DCP IS actually pretty good at what she does with the children. With the adults, ehhh not so much. BD isn't going to this daycare just for me. She's going to this particular one because this DCP works with all the school teacher's kids in the district and she kind of has an "in" for what they need to know and do. I'm going to try to ride this out for 9 more months (when BD starts pre-k) and see how it goes.

advice.only2's picture

Dear DCP while you were rambling on with your internet psycho babble I took that time to do some research of my own and found a much better daycare more suited to my BD's needs.

mommadukes2015's picture

It's really hard to explain, but she does seem to be good with the kids (see above). Adults, not so much. In fact, in my opinion, not at all. Plus, we live in a VERY rural town. Finding another DCP this close would be next to impossible.

ndc's picture

Honestly, I'd be finding a new day care provider as soon as I could. This one sounds too judgmental, and the fact that she was discussing my child/family with her husband (and then telling me about it!) would tick me off.

mommadukes2015's picture

Her daycare is in her home. Her husband walked through the daycare area when we were discussing this. The whole family is daycare certified so they all kind of watch the kids together. I think hubby just gets caught up in her "holier than thou" perspective and older people around here tend to have one way of thinking and one way only, so I'm not really surprised, after catching what I catch, he's probably a smart man to just shut up and knod.

But that's not how I do. I'm going to try sticking it out, she does have redeeming qualities-I certainly haven't showcased them enough. I know she takes good care of my daughter and I know she has her best interest at heart, albeit a little misguided.

bananaseedo's picture

She sounds like a typical bratty 3 yr old lol- My niece is this way- that little redhead had a temper from hell since she was born. Stubborn, difficult, can be super sweet and then turn to Chuky.

But her dad is a softie, mom didn't know how to discipline. It takes two hard core parents to handle a spirited kid IMO. Dad has to step up and help w/the discipline (time outs/spankings, whatever works). Careful of getting to wrapped in a complete routine, time for 'open' and 'adapatable' is good for kids, more so then 100pct strict routine IMO.

Matter of fact I find kids whose parents are 100pct strict schedule to have more tempers and lack of adaptability then those that are more flexible.

I think your DCP is a bit over the top /over zealous but cares for her. I wouldn't run to therapy or the likes, just PUNISH bad behavior. The 'positiv discipline' works good w/a lot of kids- but the testy ones will just use good behavior to obtain continued attention seeking and accolades. No nonsense. I remember I told my niece to leave the kitchen when my SIL and I were cooking -to go and play so we could finish up. You would think I yelled at her to shut up or verbally abused her OMG played the tears/head hanging/I feel rejected. She had my mom jumping through constant hoops and needed 100pct attention on her ALL THE TIME. All the 'positive' reinforcing turned her into a attention getter. NO-it's ok to ignore your kids and tell them to go play because mommy is (abc)- we treat kids like delicate flowers and then wonder why they are out of control. They know better-they will manipulate at that young age-it's innate human behavior.

I did something right- my oldest was difficult as toddler too-but BOTH boys would be independent to play alone when needed. I can't stand needy kids-but they are MADE by their parents stepping overthemselves with attention giving. Hey, I've ruined my dog this way. You sound like you're a badass mom to me...stay w/the discipline, get your DH to discipline more- reinforce independent play- punish bad behavior-ditch therapy plans IMO.

onwednesdayswewearpink's picture

She expects a 3 year old to stay on a pen and paper task for 15 minutes?!?!?! You don’t need to see a doctor, you need a new daycare.

moeilijk's picture

Your daughter sounds SOOO much like mine!

Here are some things that have helped me:

1. A STOP sign in a corner, with a bunch of quiet activities around (stuck to the wall using patafix, don't know the English name). When she was getting overwhelmed, she could go over there and choose an activity and ask for help calming down.

2. Talking about virtues combined with clear expectations and follow-through. (Example with your dinner prep story - she's asking for apple juice, I say that I will get that for her in 15 minutes and that I will set the timer so that even if I'm still busy I won't forget. And thank her for her patience because I know it can be difficult to wait.)

3. Printing out a bunch of activity cards (very general, like a clipart of a playground etc) and using magnet tape to put them on the whiteboard, and making a daily routine, usually with her in the evenings so she knows what will happen the next
day. Some is fixed and some she can choose.

4. Meals and bedtime are at the same every day.

5. Using play or storytelling to teach.

I will say that being very specific about love and personal qualities and behaviour is very useful. I've explained to my daughter that I love her, her dad loves her (God, Grandma, etc) just because she is herself. We see she is a good listener, but that's not why we love her. We see that sometimes she finds it very difficult to be patient, but that doesn't make us love her less. We love her all the time, just because she is wonderful just the way she is. But of course we really like it when she is a good helper and a good listener, because it makes things easier for us, and gives us more time to play and to do things she likes together. A happy parent loves to do nice things for and with their kids! And good listeners and helpful children have very happy parents who love to go for walks and read extra stories.

Also, you might find some children's books by Elaheh Bos useful - she also has a lot of free tools on her website, but they are (mostly) for older children. http://plantlovegrow.com/gentle-reminders.html

Oh, and if your daughter is also quite smart, it could be that she needs a bit more challenge. But at that age, ofc she must face that challenge with adult help. My kid enjoys doing all kinds of table-top activities, even ones above her level, if I let her sit on my lap to do it. Otherwise, it's a challenge for her.

Fifteen minutes is not unreasonable. Perhaps to stay focussed on one activity it might be tough. But if she's engaged, no problem. My kid turned 4 only three weeks ago, and she can stay 'quiet' for an hour, plus another 30 minutes with some protests. We do quiet time regularly, so I get out 2-3 activities, often one that she has requested, and set them all up at the table. Then I don't talk to her for at least an hour. Activities might be - a colouring book and markers, a series of emotions cards just to look at, her whiteboard and magnetic numbers/letters, playdough, scissors and different kinds of paper, etc.