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SD MIrroring Behavior of BM...Problems Escalating

Healyourslf's picture

Right in time for the "witching" hour..."something wicked this way comes with my 20 something SD." Let's just say that her covert manipulation tactics have turned overt since DH and I moved into a awesome new house last March and are happier than ever. I've had a talk with DH about "emeshment" and we agree that staying unified with any decisions will prevent SD from creating her conquer and divide tactics. We're solid, but SD is amping up her dissatisfaction and the snowball is building. It began right after March with snyde little passive-aggressive remarks, escalated to outright asking DH to go on vacation "just with her." This was followed by physical overtures (straddling daddy's lap - which made DH very uncomfortable), continually bringing over old photos from the past and reminiscing, and now it's an outright battle to control. DH and I speak candidly about the issue and confirm our posture on how to deal with the bs. We are both feeling/intuiting that BM is involved in the emotional stringing and wanting to create angst and alienation. I feel like SD is trying to compete with me on every level..or is it really the BM's feelings working through SD? It's laughable as we've had very different lives and are polar opposites. I have tried to be nice...but I'm chilling to cordial because SD is extremely manipulative (BM is the same). She keeps calling DH during work to "have lunch" so she can manipulate without my presence (excluding me is one of her tactics). DH keeps declining...told me today, "I am so uncomfortable around her anymore...she reminds me of her mother and is acting just like her." (no love lost there for DH as BM took him through the ringer, had an affair,,etc.,etc). I feel like SD is targeting me for issues that were present before I even entered the scene. It's dismaying to have to deal with this...the mask is off and there's a monster approaching. Anyone have monster-proofing advice?

sammigirl's picture

I hope your DH continues to support you, that is the key to success.

Totally ignore SD20. Let her Dad make the decisions in regards to their relationship. You continue to disengage as you see fit and take yourself out of her life completely. Your DH will appreciate your support for him and your disengagement from the drama.

There will probably come a time when your DH will see or visit her without you; let that happen and find something special to do for yourself. Your SD20 is his daughter and I'm sure he loves her; but it never has to be about you and him. Never put DH in the middle and never lower yourself to SD and BM.

I don't even talk to my DH about SD56. I keep very busy and my SD56 doesn't even exist in my world, and I mean that, I do nothing for her. I tried for 30+ years to be part of a "Brady Bunch" family, only to be told I was hated and I should leave and divorce DH. I never responded to my SD and will never lower myself. I totally disengaged and walked away from her.

Stay here and read, read, read....

enuf's picture

You are right if she is straddling daddy's lap she is determined to oust you and replace you. If she did it in front of you, she showed absolutely no respect for your position as his wife. Your dh needs to nip these things quickly. He should have asked her to get off him.

My ss, even into his late forties would always compete for his df attention. He would try to sit between us in a theater, on a plane I was the last one one and when he saw me, he blocked my way demanding I give him my ticket so that he could sit with his df. If his df and I were walking side by side he would try to get between us. My ex would hold on to my hand as tightly as he could because his ds would try to force himself between us. That was the wrong thing for ex to do, he should have just told him to stop, but he did not have the balls to do so. Funny considering my ex always referred to himself as an alpha male.

Talk to your dh about shutting down any inappropriate behavior quickly, and anything that undermines your position as his wife. If he does not her antics will only escalate and if it continues your dh will start to see her behavior as normal and accept it more readily.

MadHatter's picture

Wow...straddling daddy's lap? Holy cow, how uncomfortable would that be for you and DH? DH should've told her that she's not a child and that, after a certain age, it becomes inappropriate for a daughter to sit in her father's lap especially like that! Good Lord! I feel like I need a shower to scrub the heebie jeebies off of me!

SacrificialLamb's picture

I have pics of daddy daughter dance at OSD's wedding. Her boobs are pressed up towards his face. It's really sickening.

SugarSpice's picture

i recall when sd was in college and dh was taking her out on a father/daughter "date." very sick.

sd was tell her father that a man should love his daughter more than his wife. in what world does that seem right?

she showed up in a halter top with big boobs bouncing all over the place make up and jewellery and looking like she was going on a date with a boy her own age.

i laughed to myself to think of people who might have seen them: a man with a young mistress.

better yet a man meeting a call girl!

SonOfABrisketMaker's picture

Lol, if I had tried some stunt like that my SM would have straight out asked me WTF was going on in my sick head. My dad would have freaked out.

What did your DH do when she straddled him? Feeing uncomfortable isn't a strong enough reaction to an overt Electra situation.

Healyourslf's picture

You could cut the air with a knife when this happened. She said, "oww...oh my neck hurts, can you massage it?" DH's face was priceless, but instead he diverted it my way saying I was the best at massages. I walked into the other room and pulled out a magnetic roller and said, "here...let me work out you issues." LOL. DH and I talked about this later and his response was, "it's something her mother would do." SD has also asked him to "move her stuff back to college" so he had to rent a vehicle and do this when we offered to put it in storage as it was futile to move this stuff back and forth. The drive is 8 hours so he had to spend the night at her college apartment...she said, "you can sleep in my bed with me." He got a neck ache from sleeping in the lounge chair.

marblefawn's picture

Right there...when she says, "You can sleep in the bed with me," he needs to strongly react. If he has a backbone, he needs to say, "Um, yea. That's not appropriate - don't even go there." If he doesn't have a backbone, he at least needs to scrunch his face and say, "Ewwww!" Either way, she will get the picture and it will probably only take one time. She keeps it up because he is passive - he's not saying "no." In effect, he is leading her on.
Even handing off the massage to you is only a Band-aid because he's not shutting her down. By him not saying "no," she will just keep trying to push that boundary.
I've been in your place. It's a good sign that he recoils now. But it's not a great sign that he's avoiding saying "no" to this sexual stuff. This puts you in jeopardy because these men turn on a dime and you could suddenly find you're being blamed as the problem and he's backing her. So if you can get him to shut her down before she causes a rift between you, that's ideal. Otherwise, it's just a matter of time before you're the bad guy on the outside looking in at them. Be gentle, but be firm that he has to tell her flirting with him is inappropriate. She will deny it, act disgusted by the suggestion, be shocked...but it will stop when she's clearly called out on it by him.

sammigirl's picture

YOU tell her or any other woman to get off you DH's lap and act like a lady, not a slut. You don't take a breath and you don't blink, when you say this (1) sentence.

My SD would not dare to do such an act in my home. I would throw her out. If DH said one word, out he would go also. DH knows this.

mapitout is right, DH should call SD out on this, but usually Dadeeee....won't correct his little princess, so YOU DO IT without hesitation.

Show this woman who is the Alpha Female and where the boundaries are in your home and in your marriage. I did this 3 years ago and there is no doubt in anyone's mind. I set boundaries for our marriage and of course DH repeated them to his DD56; DH was afraid I would set SD straight and he didn't want his Princess put in her place in front of him. No problem, she got the message. I will speak up if I have to. I have held my tongue for 37 years, but have also reached my limit, and will step up on something like lap dancing.

From now on, you take the lead and just do it. Surprise everyone! You don't have to get personal, just tell her it is not appropriate and you will not allow it in your home, with your husband. Shame her; tell her she should know better. You can say it in a low, stern voice, and look your SD directly in the eye; don't even direct it to your DH.

I believe DH will respect you to the moon for taking her on, in this case. I had two SM's in my life time; I would not have even thought about being this embarrassing to my Dad.

SugarSpice's picture

i told one sd to go and find her own boy friend. she was having problems getting dates and using her own father for dates.

dh saw nothing wrong with this and was so happy for sd attention. when they were together i am sure he looked like a man with a plump young mistress because she was hanging all over him. at home she would have her legs over his lap on the sofa.

gross...

when a teen living with bm she would ignore him for weeks--until it was near birthday or christmas.

sandye21's picture

"YOU tell her or any other woman to get off you DH's lap and act like a lady, not a slut. You don't take a breath and you don't blink, when you say this (1) sentence." Love it, Sammi. DH SHOULD have told SD to knock it off right away. If he was too shocked to tell her right away he should have told her ASAP. But since OP has a DH like mine, she will have to do it herself. The longer this goes on without calling SD on her gross behavior the worse it will get.

FrenchPeas's picture

Reminds me of exsd hugging her farher's face to her boobs. Ahhh sweet memories. LMAO

strugglingSM's picture

The BM in my life is already like that with SS and he is just devoted to his mother. She posts pics of them wrapped up in each others' arms (in a recent pic, she was behind him with her arms around his waist and he was reaching up to put one arm behind her head, he had a look like he was in heaven, not a look like a happy child gives), pics of him giving her smoldering looks and her commenting on how grown up he looks. He's 11. I fear for his future girlfriends who are going to have to compete with his mom for attention.

It's always weird to me when kids flirt with their parents and vice versa.

Acratopotes's picture

I think it's time for your husband to be more firm with his adult daughter and really have your back...

SD coming over with old photo's, why can't your husband tell her, sorry not interested, pack that away or leave..
SD getting onto his lap - why not simply push her off and say WTF show some respect I'm your father and I have a wife
SD calling daily for lunch date with Daddy without you, why isn't he telling her, Listen SD, if I go on any dates it will be with my wife and not my daughter... thus stop calling me for lunch, I do not go out unless my wife are with me.

see the whole thing to me is a DH thing, he tells you one thing and acts in a different way, he does not really have your back IMO, he's trying to keep you both happy and that's not going to work

fairyo's picture

Acrat is right- he isn't equipped to say no to strong women- so he says yes to both of them. This isn't a problem if you are disengaged to the point where SD no longer visits and you don't have to witness their childish behaviour- and trust me even though DH says he doesn't like her doing it there's something in him that likes the attention.
The only monster proofing advice I have is to remove yourself from her presence- go and look at your own photos, or do something completely different for yourself. I don't agree that you should challenge her behaviour- this is exactly what she is seeking and unless you're an expert on put downs it could backfire.
I don't know if you have a room/space you can go when she visits but if you remove the audience the show will stop- she might find other ways to get to you but be one step ahead. One thing I've learned is that my DH and his family don't do subtlety- so try little things that please you and forget about their immature antics.
I would be doing something so interesting when SD calls around that DH can't resist finding out what you're up to. Maybe do some pole dancing and if SD calls have a pole dance off. Only joking about that one, but you maybe very good at that sort of thing!

Ispofacto's picture

Heh. Pole dancing is great exercise. Lady Fitness here had a class going for a while. No kidding.

Acratopotes's picture

There is no way in hel, I will leave my house so that my partner can visit with his adult daughter... no way..

He can simply go and visit her or they can meet somewhere, they can meet at the house when I'm not there, but he will not invite her over if I'm there, when she enters and she's not greeting every one politely, I will tell her, turn around and get out...

Healyourslf's picture

Thanks all. I appreciate the feedback. What a good forum to share this angst. DH and I are on the same page, but on Sunday he attempted to verbalize a problem with her "cling-on" dog because our 14 year old cat has an issue with marking when he feels threatened (and I keep a real tidy house). When she arrived...first she brought out more photos (surprise surprise) the she let the dog run in. This is after being told several times about this issue. So I shut the patio door to keep the dog outside and the cat safe, but the dog proceeded to bark hysterically and scratch at the glass as he could not get at the cat. I watched DH say, "I told you we have a problem with that..." She snapped in classic bitch form back at him, "you tell me that every time." I watched him deflate at this aggressive response. Figured it was the same behavior he had when BM yelled at him. Apparently, it does not matter what our boundaries are...no respect. She's moving out of state in a week...but I'm thinking there's going to be one last effort to create friction. It should be interesting. If she ignores our wishes/boundaries again...looks like DH is a little weak at holding his ground, I am going to have to step up. Feel like I'm on eggshells in my own home and that is totally unacceptable.

sandye21's picture

Yes, you are going to have to step up if DH will not deliver a strong message to her that bringing her dog in to pee and lap dancing are unacceptable in your home. I had to be the one to set boundaries with SD and DH - she is to respect me as her Father's wife or she is not to set foot on my doorstep. It's been 7 years since I've seen her ugly face and I've never been sorry. DH is welcome to visit SD just about whenever he wishes - just not here.

Do it -- it's worth it.

Tiger7's picture

I think I might be seeing into the future where my SO's 17 yr old is concerned. She still isn't speaking to him so we don't see her, which is fine with me. But I know that will change soon with her bday and xmas coming up. She's very manipulative like her mom and they're both used to working SO over. He's finally been standing up to both now that I'm in the picture. We're getting married next year and I don't want her there. If they've made up by then, that'll be a problem.

enuf's picture

Next time this happens use the Mae West approach! You have what your dh wants, I am sure he can sense when you are in the mood a mile away. Next time his dd comes over, flaunt it and it will make her uncomfortable, because he will be responding and reacting to you, even though she is there. Wear the top that shows a little cleavage and the skirt that is a little too short. If she is over and dh is sitting on the couch, sit close to him and ask him to rub your feet in her presence. That way his attention is diverted to you while he is chatting with her. Flirt with him in her presence.

Since my ss was always competing for my ex's attention calling all day and wanting to spend almost everyday with him. To amuse myself I would do what I just stated when ss was over, my ex's attention would be focused on me and it made ss very uncomfortable to see my dh rub my feet when he should have been focusing on ss and watching the game. I could tell that it upset him as he did not know how to compete on those terms. He would glare at his df when this went on and as soon as the game was over, my ex would say to him "ok the game is over" and quickly scoot him out the door.

Remember your dh is with you and you have what he wants, she will not know how to compete on those terms especially if you take the lead. My guess is that when she sat on your dh lap you were probably aghast at the behavior. Next time go with it, scoot her off and sit on his lap telling her with humor "child, this is how it is done, and that is why he is with me'! then give him a big kiss. This one act will knock her of the pedestal she thinks she is on so fast she not know how to react. You want her to feel uncomfortable with her antics and to know that you find it amusing, moreover in a way it is making fun of her. Your dh ego remains intact and sd is made uncomfortable at the same time and you are the queen bee just swatting the little worker bee off.

I know it is hard, but try to find the humor of your sd infantile antics and run with it. It will show her that you see her as a annoying little fly that you can swat away without hesitation, remorse or without it affecting your emotions. Because in a way that is what she is, just buzzing around trying to latch on to your dh to feed herself like a parasite.

Healyourslf's picture

Thanks for all the input everyone...some very interesting shared experiences and suggestions to keep in mind. I think the BM has much to do with the actions of SD. All children combine the best and worst of both parents and divorce impacts everyone differently. I don't like playing emotional games, it's draining and useless. I suspect BM is actively participating in alienating DH and I am caught in the middle of the jealousy, competition and dysfunction. Let's hope DH can continue to stand "our" ground, yet I have compassion for his circumstances. See, it took 4 years for all this to surface. During the years when his marriage was falling apart, SD stepped in as "the companion" because BM is an alcoholic and cheater. He was part and parcel of creating a very unhealthy emotional emeshment with SD because his marriage lacked. He is now conscious of this and understands that the "break away" will be the healthiest thing he can do for his adult daughter. She's very influenced by BM who I believe is tweaked because DH is now in a good relationship and has re-pieced his life (she destroyed him financially and emotionally). BM and SD are passive-aggressive individuals who say, "I just want you to be happy," yet destroy the peace with their ego-driven behavior. I never understood people like this...they need to do serious inner work as to why they are such destructive humans. I have no tolerance for narcissists. In the interim, SD continues her futile attempt to create tension - undoubtedly a subconscious trickle-down from the BM's dysfunction and her own "daddy" angst. A mess of manipulation.