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BM fires up parental alienation, I'm at a loss

carolbrady71's picture

I am having a hard time getting my heart in the right place about a situation that has reared it's head recently.
DH and I have been living together for a year and a half. He has 50% custody of a 16 yr old (boy) and a 12 year old (girl).

We got together after he had separated from BM, she was the one to pull the plug on the marriage because she thought the other guy she had been having an affair with for 5 or so years was ready to dump his wife and make a legitimate go with her.

Though BM was (and still is) a total asshole to DH, just straight up narcissist cruelty, he decided to go through mediation instead of court to settle custody/support/property issues. He pays her alimony and child support faithfully. Their divorce and settlement was final April 2016. Part of the settlement allowed her to live in the house they still both own until October 2017, after which time it was to be sold, debts paid off, and proceeds divided.

She has made no effort to find another place to live up to this point. When an offer was made for the house recently, she agreed to the price, but tried to get the buyer to agree to rent back to her indefinitely at a rate that would not cover the cost of the loan, so she could "find a place for her children and her to live." When the buyer declined, she decided (without consulting DH) that the sale was off until she could figure out housing. Given her total laziness and general attitude that DH should be responsible for her well being because she sacrificed so many years being married to him, I doubt she will get off her ass and find a place unless forced to. He was collecting documentation of such for a return to mediation to either get her to agree to the offer, or take her to Court if that failed.

Then she went nasty. Out of nowhere, the SD tells DH she is angry with him last week. She requested to see her counselor prior to telling him why (not a bad thing). So he takes her to the counselor. She then has the mother of all meltdowns later that night, telling him he is responsible for making BM move, that he does not care what happens to BM. Essentially, her mother told her it was her dad's fault she had to get rid of a family pet, a car, and he didn't care if BM was homeless. SD is refusing to go on a prescheduled camping trip because her older brother can't make it, and suddenly, she "doesn't feel safe". There has never been an incident to make her feel this way, except for DH telling BM it was inappropriate to ask the buyer of the house for contingencies she had not previously discussed with him, and that the kids had a house (ours), so to paint them as being at risk of being on the streets was not honest.

BM isn't as engaged with the almost 17 year old, I believe because he is not as emotionally vulnerable and because he won't generate income for her much longer. I really feel for DH and have told him I think he needs to pursue legal adjudication to get her the hell out of the house, and have it sold no later than October 31. In my opinion, the longer she lingers, the more drama and alienation tactics she can dump on the SD. He is unsure about that approach, fearing it could enflame BM even more, causing harm to SD. Even though she is about to receive the 70K payout from his retirement, he has seriously considered helping her find a place in hope that she will stop harming SD emotionally. I think it will have the opposite effect, empowering her to use that tactic every time she wants or needs something she feels he is responsible to her for.

So essentially, BM is playing him with the old playbook from their relationship, using the SD as a weapon to get what she wants. I am trying to be supportive, cause it is awful to see him go through this, but part of me is losing respect for him, watching him buy right into this lady's game. Meanwhile, both his kids spend most of their time at our place (even on her days) because we have food in the house and it's a no drama zone.

What approach would you take if you were in his shoes?

notsobad's picture

What he has to understand is that BM is going to hurt SD and use her as a weapon no matter what he does or doesn't do.

Whenever anything in her life goes wrong she will find a way to blame DH and she will wail to SD that it's all his fault.

He needs to sit SD down and tell her the deal that he and BM worked out in mediation. This kid is only hearing one side and she should see all sides.

BM once called crying that she couldn't pay the electrical bill, DH asked what she'd done with the $5K he'd just given her.
She started wailing "Why was he so mean to her? Didn't he love his kids? Didn't he want them to have heat and lights?"

DH said "SS must be in the car with you for you to be making such a scene" He hung up and when he picked up SS he told him that he'd just given BM a lot of money, more than enough to pay the bills.
What she did with it was none of his business but he wasn't giving her any more till CS was due next month and if the electricity got cut off SS could come stay with him. SD happened to be away at Uni at the time.

carolbrady71's picture

I totally agree with you.
Once the piranha smells blood, the feeding frenzy will begin.
I'm trying not to push him too hard, but I think the longer she is allowed to be in the driver's seat, the worse off his relationship with his daughter will be. Summertime is the best time to find housing in this area, but a person has to look in order to find. She has no incentive to look at this point.

I'm super frustrated seeing him being manipulated. We both knew she would start to come unravelled when her other relationship didn't pan out after all and she had no man in her life to support her ego and her lifestyle, and here we are.

I told him to rip off the band aid and take the hits now, as opposed to later.

notsobad's picture

Just wanted to add,

He needs to Start as he means to go forward!

Go check out Gunners blog. He was trying desperately to be everything to everyone and now it's all come back to bite him in the a$$

ChiefGrownup's picture

No, you are right. It will definitely empower her. But I don't know what the answer is because with her PAS if you just get the girl full time while bm figures it this child will lash out viciously and cause problems you haven't yet dreamed of.

I don't have any advice. Just feel for you. Sorry!

carolbrady71's picture

We kind of always figured the kids would end up with him full time because BM has never fully supported herself before, this area is insanely expensive to live in (we have a great "deal" renting our 2 bed/2 bath place for $2500 p/mo), and she would flame out. Now it appears her strategy is to cut bait on the eldest child and focus on ruining SD's relationship with her dad to punish him for suggesting the kids will be taken care of, but she will not be (outside of the CS and alimony).

Acratopotes's picture

It's time for Daddy to tell the kids the truth, not leaving them to belief the shit BM is telling them.

SD is old enough to hear the facts, mum has been cheating on me for 5 years with a married guy, Mum asked for a divorce and that's why we broke up... ask Mum why her boyfriend never divorced his wife and married her.

Sell the house and get it over ... the agreement was till October 2017.

carolbrady71's picture

I really appreciate the feedback, we live in a small town and he and I are pretty well known in the community for volunteer work, so I don't want to talk about this stuff too widely out there. She is also somewhat infamous, having trolled other husbands in town towards the end of their marriage and talking about it to other moms pretty openly. Let's just say there wasn't only one other person in their marriage.

I agree with the notion that SD is old enough to know that her mother made decisions DH had no control over, in terms of their marriage staying intact, but in looking at signs of PAS, it uniformly lists telling the kids how things went down as a no-no. I told DH that it was possible to present the information in a way that does not disparage BM (leaving out the list of guys she was with, the reasons she told him it was over, etc), which he said he did in a broad way (mom wanted the relationship to end, I tried to keep it together, but it wasn't enough). I feel so bad for the damn kid, BM obviously cares more about narcissistic supply than what that kind of behavior is doing to her daughter.

I have stepped way back from this situation because I feel it is his set of discussions to have with SD, and if I step in, I will become the target of her "discomfort", which makes it a lot easier for BM to make a custody grab than SD having to work her issues out with her father. My relationship with her is optional, his is not. I still strongly believe he needs to move forward with compelling the sale, but he is kind of frozen because of his stated concern that the BM will turn the heat up on SD even more. Selling the house is less about the money than closing a chapter and unentangling himself from a person who (in spite of her many indiscretions) feels the relationship ended because of his inability to provide for her and her kids emotionally. Did I mention he is a firefighter? Yeah, it was so lovely hearing her rail on him about how his duty to others came before her, while he was having to work overtime so she could be a stay at home mom with a housekeeper.

notsobad's picture

I agree that SD doesn't need to know exactly why the marriage ended. Knowing won't change how she feels about her mother.

What SD does need to know is that DH is still providing for her and by proxy BM. He needs to tell SD that selling the house is a decision that both he and BM came to, that it is an adult financial decision that has nothing to do with SD. If SD is afraid for her future and where she'll live, she has a place with DH (as long as that's true and she can live with you), until her mother finds a place to live.

It sounds like part of the problem is that he buys into BMs crap about how he didn't provide for them. If he as an adult can fall prey to her bs, imagine how easy it is for a child to fall for it?
SD Needs to have another voice in her head, a different version from BMs, that tells her this isn't her problem, that her Dad will care for her and be there when she needs him. Maybe not in the way that BM demands but he'll be there.

My SD was 20, going to Uni and living back at BMs. She'd been away at a different Uni the previous year. We gave her $1000 per month for her living expenses, rent, food, gas, etc. When she moved back home with BM we cut it to $400 per month, there was no rent to pay. BM lost it! She thought that DH should give SD money to give her for rent, SD came crying to us saying BM needed the money or she might lose the house. If SD lived with roommates we'd give her rent money, so how is this different?
DH said no way am I paying BM to rent her own daughter a room. She didn't have the room rented while SD was away at another school, why does she suddenly need rent.
DH told SD he'd given BM the house, he'd walked away from it, no way he was now going to make BMs mortgage payments for her. We are sure that SD went without lunches and other things to give BM a portion of the $400 but that's all on them.

carolbrady71's picture

I agree that on some level DH bought into her line that everything is his fault, even though intellectually he knows it was at least a 50/50 share of responsibility.
I see this whole moving thing as a theater for BM's need to have everyone "look at me look at me".

Can you believe she told SD that they had to get rid of a pet and one of her extra vehicle's because DH was forcing her out? The kid is 12.

DH did tell SD she and her brother always had a place in our home, no matter what happens. He first told BM the same thing, but also that she was responsible for herself. This was her response to his email detailing it was not appropriate to try to negotiate terms of sale directly with the buyer before discussing with him and that asking for a contingency allowing her to stay in the house after the sale was an unreasonable request to the buyer (a person they had both been friends with):

I do not have to talk to you first, especially when you say stuff like, "The kids have a house." WTF is that supposed to mean? That you're expecting me to give up custody of the kids to you? And I'm not asking Buyer to find housing for me. That's your interpretation of my conversation with him. In addition, we determined last time that the MSA is a guiding document, and that if the October date doesn't work, then we revisit the stipulations of the agreement. And I agree with his offer of the price of the sale of the house, but any good negotiator would not just accept prima facie the other components of the contract. That's what parties do--they negotiate. The fact that he is your friend, and you're all about screwing me over, colors your view of the transaction, and that means I don't ask you SQUAT before I talk to Buyer about things. I'm the one that's coming out on the short end if we move forward right now. Not you. Not him. Me. And yes, that's me AND the kids. I'm not interested in returning to mediation. I'm interested in proceeding with this transaction without you thinking you can run things from your position. You are just 1/3 of the transaction, and you don't get to tell me what to do, nor how to do it. You can save that shit for your girlfriend.

goingcrazy00's picture

Ahh the old "throw gf/DW into conversation in whatever context you can mention or refer to her" trick just for good measure. All these BMs sound the same...

carolbrady71's picture

Right?!
I so enjoyed the email she sent me when he told her we were dating, where she insisted I meet with her to discuss the co-parenting of her children, which she felt was my obligation to her because I chose to become involved with a married man.
Yeah, the one she tossed out so she could go snatch some other ladies husband.
Unreal.
Yeah, that meeting never happened.

notsobad's picture

That email sound exactly like something that BM here would write.

The good news is that if DH stands up to her, sticks to his principles and talks his kids regularly and doesn't allow BM to twist their mind, it will work out in the end.

We rarely hear from BM anymore. Both skids are good level headed adults now. They love and are close to BM but she doesn't have the same hold on them that she once did.

carolbrady71's picture

And P.S.
I can guarantee no one tells this "girlfriend" what to do or how to do it LOL.

SMforever's picture

This is such a familiar situation to me. DH's cheater XW lived in the marital home for 15 years post divorce, because the judge in the original divorce allowed DH to avoid CS by providing the house free to BM. Agreement said house had to be sold on SD's 21st birthday. Did it happen...no, she delayed for 14 momths, through 6 offers on the house all of which she refused. DH was so pussywhipped by her, didn't want to "hurt" the kids (aged 21, 25, 27 all still sponging off the parents).

Fortunately, BM found a rich BF to buy DH's half of the house so BM could continue to live there. We took that offer the minute it was made, because we knew the place was poorly maintained, thus not a good investment. Not sure what DH would have done if she hadn't found a sugar daddy. She is the town bicycle, having wrecked about four other marriages through the years.

I laughed so hard recently when BM and said BF recently got jobs in a faraway location (yay!)'and they've had the house on the market and only so far had lower offers than they paid DH for it. Smile

carolbrady71's picture

That is the part I am getting frustrated with DH about, and have vocalized to him--the part around yielding to her bullying out of fear the children will be adversely affected.
The SD just told him in no uncertain terms she is being adversely affected! In my experience, the best way to deal with a bully is a sharp NOPE, followed up with high and firm boundaries.

robin333's picture

Your DH needs to get that house sold as agreed. No extension because it won't be just one extension.

Is his name on the mortgage? If it is, trust me on this: sell the freaking house asap.

carolbrady71's picture

THANK YOU!
Yes, it is still in both of their names. And I agree if it isn't sold on the terms of the original agreement, she will continue to lag on looking for a place (her expectations do not match her financial ability) and continue to alienate the SD with the mean daddy narrative.
I have helped him create a great record of impartial, business like correspondence about sticking the the October deadline that dates back to October 2016. All of her responses to those emails were in the same "fuck you jack" tone of the one above.

robin333's picture

Well I lived a similar story. DH gave BM the house. Mortgage in both of their names, BM was to refinance the remaining less than 30k balance. Well, 3 years after the divorce agreement, BM still hasn't refinanced and is close to foreclosure. I am certain that she thought DH would pay it off "for the kids" ( both over 18 at the time). She literally waited until the day before auction to work something out with the mortgage company.

Long story, my DH's credit is crap. We just moved and everything had to be in my name. His name is still on that mortgage and I'm just waiting to get another foreclosure notice. There's some resentment on my part as this will be an ongoing issue and DH cannot get a credit card to start rebuilding his credit. And similar to your BM, my BM expected DH to take care of it like he had done in the past out of guilt.

carolbrady71's picture

UGH.
Yes, she drove them into bankruptcy while they were still married (fortunately that just discharged in June), then cried to the prospective buyer that she had difficulty finding a place because of it. Um, no shit?
The "counter-offer" she made to the buyer (after he declined to rent back to her indefinitely at a loss), was to pay her mortgage for the next two months so she could save for moving expenses, then credit back to him at the close of sale.