Separated but not divorced
I had no idea what area to post this in, so figured general was as good as anywhere. If I'm wrong please let me know.
I've been with my boyfriend for almost 3 years, we moved in together 8 months ago. When we moved in, he was a little "disillusioned" with his ex and said that when they finished the separation process (i.e. sold the communal property to release the equity) he was filing for divorce. At that point we'd been discussing moving in together at some point, so when he said that I agreed he could move in to my place. Before this, they had agreed that they wouldn't divorce before the youngest hit 18 as in our state, the state decides custody and child support regardless of any agreement between the parents - they had an amicable split and earn around the same so they decided 50/50 custody and no CS (state seems to favour BM so even with same earning and 50/50 he'd end up probably paying if they go to court). Seemed reasonable to me when we were dating, but now he's moved in it's starting to bother me, we had an agreement no mixed finances until his divorce, so I now have 4 people in a condo I bought for 1 and it's driving me nuts. There's no privacy, no real soundproofing, 1 bath for 4 people - and he thinks it'll work for the next decade until his kids move out!!
So the question is, given that I knew he said no divorce until the kids hit 18 when we started dating (then changed that when we discussed moving in), am I unreasonable for thinking he'd stick to the "get me out of here" option I agreed to living together under? Would it be a relationship dealbreaker for me to now say "hey, when I agreed to live together, you said you were divorcing. If that's not the case you need to move out with your kids and we can go back to dating until they're 18"? I'm trying to find solutions to our current problem, my place just won't work for the duration if he insists on not divorcing until the kids are legally adult, and I will go insane if we try to make it work until they launch in this space.
The only other option I can think of is for me to (singly) try to buy a bigger place, but that leaves me in the crapper if he decides to move on in the future. I don't need a bigger place for me alone, but given I dated him with the "no divorce until the kids are 18" deal on the table it could be a compromise. If I do this we'd definitely have a legal document that says the house is mine, in fact either way (unless he moves out and goes back to dating in separate residences) he's signing one of those before we go any further - I'd have insisted before except I thought he'd be at least in the process of divorce right now......
I think this is it: 1. H and
I think this is it:
1. H and wife decide to separate
2. H&W decide to file for divorce after separation is "official"-- property is taken care of
3. H moves in with OP agreeing to divorce once common property is taken care of
4. H & W decide to wait until kids are 18 to divorce
5. OP now lives with a married man for 10 years
I think you are correct, but
I think you are correct, but look at the time frame. They have been together for 3 years and only living together for 8 months. How long was this woman dating this man while he still lived with his wife, 2.5 years?!
he's playing you and sponging
he's playing you and sponging off you....I'm sorry but this is how I see it.
Him and BM decided to divorce when youngest is 18, then he met you... told you he will file for divorce once you move in together, he's not done it yet and goes back on his word saying he and BM agreed.....
Hon you are wasting your time on this man, he's not going to divorce BM for any one, he likes his life the way it is,
I simply will tell him, fine it's been 8 months, my place is to small for 4 people, 2 people fine, not 4, I suggest you get your own place where you can stay when the kids comes to visit you. I want this to happen within the next month.
Your boyfriend is a clever person... he's not paying CS to BM, and he's not paying rent to you, he's living the free live of not spending any money on ladies... just him and his kids...
reality is a bitch - I did
reality is a bitch - I did not want to go there lol.... but you might be right
You are being played. Time
You are being played. Time to call the locksmith, rekey the locks, and purge your life of this shallow and polluted manipulative gene pool.
Even more baffling to me is that you agreed to this for a 10+ year duration to begin with.
Take care of you. Purge this toxic gene pool sewage from your life
One of the first rules of
One of the first rules of dating is to never take on someone who is just separated, not divorced. He hasn't even shat let alone gotten off that pot.
But moving him and the kids in...well, that just smacks of neediness and doormat behaviour. Where on earth did you get the notion that you should provide lodgings for this,crowd? And now you are seriously thinking of buying a larger place with just your money? I think this joker has you hypnotised.
He's laughing all the way to the bank, and getting laid. No need for him to stop smiling.
He needs to move back out.
He needs to move back out. Period.
Unfortunately, I wouldn't be
Unfortunately, I wouldn't be surprised if you're correct. This man obviously has no problem with lying and manipulating.
And how are you, J? It's been a while.
This man is showing a lot of
This man is showing a lot of concern for himself but very little for you.
1. Move himself and his kids into your place. Saves him a lot of money. You get the pleasure of sharing your bath with little kids. Check.
2. Promise not to divorce for 10 years. He saves child support. Costs are pushed on to you. Check.
3. He can't possibly propose to you for at least 10 years. He keeps his options open. You are sewn up and tangled up, hanging on to hope.
He is undoubtedly charming and fun and insert attractive quality here. But the fact is his major actions are not showing a concern for your well being nor your dignity. ALL the actions are done to gain HIM some benefit. This is not the basis of a good marriage and is a recipe for disaster in steplife.
Tell him, sorry, babe, this just isn't working for me. Ask him to move out and go back to dating. I don't think you're ready to break up with him but do go back to dating and watch and evaluate how many big life actions he takes that demonstrate a deep concern for YOUR well being. I don't mean he fixes your toaster or puts the occasional tank of gas in your car. Big things. Where he sacrifices himself to some degree.
Also, word to the wise from experienced stepparents: "Amicable" is not all that it's cracked up to be. It can be code for "hopelessly enmeshed." What you want is a man who couldn't tolerate being married to a person any longer no matter what it cost him. Doesn't have to hate her, but is good and ready to move on with his life in all aspects.
1. True, although given he
1. True, although given he pays all the costs for him and the kids I actually end up slightly better off myself, since I now have a "roommate" contributing to the bills
2. Not sure what costs are pushed to me, I pay nothing at all towards keeping his kids - see point 1 above
3. I don't want to get married (and he knows that) so I couldn't really care less about that
The moving out and back to dating is a possibility still. We talked recently and I did tell him I wouldn't take this more than 12 months - so at that point either he's moving either with or without me. I've also set myself a personal benchmark at 6 months to review and let him know I was serious about that, every now and then he talks about "us" saving up for a bigger house but so far he's not mentioned divorce. I'll have to remind him that "us" buying a house equates to mixing finances so his saving up is completely irrelevant unless he's started proceedings.
1. Unless he pays rent,
1. Unless he pays rent, security deposit, and upkeep, he is not paying for ALL his kids' and his own costs. It would be hard to believe his kids are not causing most of the wear and tear on the house, including things like carpet, furniture, paint, etc.
2. It did sound in your original post like many costs were pushed on to you. But if they are not, I accept your assessment.
3. Glad to hear you've given him a timeline to file for divorce. Remember, while he is still married you cannot buy a house "together" unless you want his wife's credit report to influence your purchasing deal and you want his wife to be a stakeholder in your equity.
While married he is still liable for all her debts, whether he agrees to them or not. If an anvil drops on him tomorrow, everything he owns--including joint purchases with you--will go to his wife. For instance you could be forced to pay off her claim to a car you bought together even if you put up all the cash on the original purchase. So it's one thing not to want to marry yourself. It's quite another to try to build a life with someone else's husband. I'm not accusing you of an "affair" but he is in fact someone else's husband and the law will treat him that way. If she decided to file right now he may end up with a very serious deficit in the marriage settlement because she could claim he is despoiling marital resources on another woman. A judge might hand her all the assets.
Some things to think about.
By the way, unless they filed
By the way, unless they filed for and gained LEGAL separation, he is still liable for any debts she incurs. If there really is some court mandated unreasonable child support he has to pay she can always refund it to him if they are so "amicable."
So there is no real financial benefit from not divorcing her. She could sign up for ten pyramid schemes and buy five Cadillacs tomorrow. He'd have to pay for them since they are still married.
So his stated reasons for not divorcing are very, very shaky.
^^This.
^^This.
I mean this in all earnest.
I mean this in all earnest. Can someone pls. explain to me why any woman would move in with a man with children, while he and wife are still married?
Just seems to me that you are setting yourself up for and settling for being a babysitter with benefits for the man, with both him and his wife lording over you. And, pls. I don’t care what the guy said or promised or gave you, and so on.
My advice: Get out. Not only do you deserve better than this, but you also give other woman a bad label—insinuating that all young women are fools who will give up anything and bow to anyone just for “love.” Or, stay in a ridiculous relationship just because they promised to, as in, “I agreed to shack up with this man, while H & W decide to wait until kids are 18 to divorce.”
And, what are you going to do when year 18 comes, and they are still married or he moves back in with her? I don’t know. I guess I have to admit even nowadays there are women who have no problem exchanging sex for “the comforts of home!?” with a man who already has a wife and children.
Downsouth - you have most
Downsouth - you have most eloquently expressed my thoughts on this. I have been in relationships whereby my friends all thought "she can do better, why is she putting up with this? Can someone shake some sense into her?"
Now that I have been there done that, it is easy to see where someone else is going wrong. And of course, having a forum to discuss this situation helps (has helped). You see, those of us who get trapped in these types of relationships - the bad doesn't happen overnight. The frog jumps out of boiling water immediately, but if it starts cool, and warms gradually, the frog cannot decide when to jump, and ends up becoming frog soup. OP must have something really going well, if she has resources and wherewithall to buy her own place, and consider buying a second, bigger place. Young and with good credit?
OP hasn't mentioned also what kind of future she desires with her man. Doe she feel "he is the one, together forever?" Does she even want children of her own, so she is ok with waiting for marriage and she likes the SO's kids enough to consider them an alternative to bio kidlings?
Im going to say what perhaps others are thinking...hope you are not offended OP, but does your man have a magic p@nis?
Yes, EXACTLY. My sweetie was
Yes, EXACTLY. My sweetie was separated legally, but not divorced, when we started our relationship. She lives in the same town, and the kids are 50/50. 1 1/2 years into our relationship, I moved in full time, and a month after he started divorce procedings.
It got UGLY. I kept hearing from BM and SO AND their kids that their "marriage was just piece of paper." That used to get me SO riled. I said "um no, it is a legally binding contract. You both can incur debt, the other is responsible for. If you are in a coma SHE can visit, I cannot. Your property is hers. A host of other things..." it was like no one was listening. After divorce process started we learned that after 10 years, she could file for lifetime alimony (he got 3 yrs 11 months) and that she could use HIS payscale for HER social security benefits. And oddly enough, although it was "a marriage in name only since separation" her paperwork filed claims the month WE began our relationship as the dissolution of their marriage month. July.
Married in name only my a$$. When it comes to money and assets it suddenly becomes more... and WIFE has entitlement.
Interesting: ""its ok kids i
Interesting: ""its ok kids i left your mom to shack up with this lady. but dont worry your mom is still my wife. this lady is just my girl friend. we can live in her home."
Believe it or not, this is actually how some DHs feel about their current wife or SM. In this case, BM, their ex- may legally not be DH's wife, but DH still goes around acting like she is. Sad, but this is how many tend to look at SMs in general--just some woman dad is shacking up with, and BM is still wife #1. Personally, I find this attitude sickening: That you can be legally married to someone, but you are still expected to take a back seat to his ex- (BM, wife #1) at least at family events, and even settle for sitting as far away as you can from your DH during family weddings, for instance, while some other woman gets to sit with your husband. Really, no different than being relegated to the back of the bus. It ia sll about treating someone like a lesser human being and society endorsing it.
Having said that, husband and wife are husband and wife, and I'm not hypocritical about it. I'm married to my husband and he is my husband. I am not wife #2 in any manner, shape or form. So, for this guy, his wife is his wife, and any woman he is shacking up with other than his wife is more or less just a babysitter with benefits. Shacking up with a guy, especially one still married and with children, doesn't automatically make you a SM.
DST, you hit the nail on the
DST, you hit the nail on the head! Where the hell are this woman's own FAMILY and FRIENDS? Are they giving her all the same advice we are, and she is just choosing to ignore it?
So many times I read of these ridiculous situations/relationships and I wonder where are the mothers, fathers, siblings, cousins, friends, co-workers, etc. of these women. Are they aware of the mess these women get in - and are they just keeping mum?
Or are they fed up of telling them over and over again that they are making a huge mistake?
Where did I say affair? He
Where did I say affair? He and his eventual ex had been living separately for some time before I even met him, by the time he moved in almost two years later they had been separated for almost three years so there was zero overlap between me and her. And the "tiny one bed condo" is more than 1000 sq ft, it has a separate bedroom for the kids, just not enough living space for me now they've moved in. If we had just one more room and two bathrooms I'd be fine - two bathrooms so I don't have to share with the kids, one more room we could set up into their hangout room so I don't have to compromise my living space for their playtime.
Whew!!!!! Ive been Miss
Whew!!!!!
Ive been Miss Sidecar before, and will never do that ever ever ever again. Sounds like the guy was just a total douchebag. Glad you got out!!!!!! Before too late!!!!!
Oh hell no ! You need to get
Oh hell no ! You need to get this married man and his kids out of your house asap .
His reasons for staying married are a bunch of BS.
As others have said , he is getting a great deal. He is saving tons by moving in wth you without really having to commit. BM has all the right and you have none.
What are you getting out of this ?
And what do you gain from all
And what do you gain from all of this compromise?
A married man
His kids
His drama
His mess
Less space
Less privacy
More bills
A promise of happy ever after in 10 years...
Wake up Sleeping Beauty; you've been slipped a Rufi!
OP said, "If I'm wrong please
OP said, "If I'm wrong please let me know." And the forum has let her know, in no uncertain (and a multitude) of terms.
Guess what? I'll bet she'll never come back.
I've learned over the years that these kinds of posts are often dead ends. Women who REALLY don't want to hear the truth; that they are wrong, that they are being used, that they are stupid.
She won't even bother to come on and concede to minor points of clarity you all have provided.
Ignorance is bliss.
As you can see I did come
As you can see I did come back - I actually read a lot of the replies before this and considered doing a disappearing act though. There were so many (way off base) bitter assumptions (we were having an affair for months before he left his wife, he was freeloading off me, I was being used as unpaid childcare, etc) that I almost just thought "not of that applies so the advice is useless". However there were a few small nuggets in there from the less judgemental that I figured I would clear up a few points, and let you all know that I have made a decision. He has a few months to figure out what he wants and start processing, either he's processing his divorce or he's processing getting his own place and moving out. I plan on "reminding" him in a few more months that I'm not doing this for the next several years and the ball is in his court to make the next move. By the end of this year we'll either be looking for a bigger place together because his divorce is in progress, or he'll be looking for something for him and the kids and I get my place back to myself.
And no. I made sacrifices to
And no. I made sacrifices to be with my husband. He was still married to his ex when we met. But I sure as hell told him that I would not consider moving to be with him until he was divorced as otherwise it was pretty disrespectful to me and did not show me that he was committed to me. (And I made sure I saw a copy of their divorce decree so I knew what was in it and that it was legit).
Get your priorities straight. Make sure you are protectrd legally and financially (discuss your situation with a lawyer). If you need to kick him out until he can demonstraight his commitment to you (by finalizing the divorce with his ex) then that is what you do. He willl either get his ass in gear and get it done and you two can move on together or he will blame you for everything and continue in his limbo in which case you know that it is time to dump his ass.
Believe me I'm protected
Believe me I'm protected financially. He pays 2/3 of all the bills and food to cover him and the kids (with 50/50 living it's effectively one kid fulltime so we agreed he'd pay two thirds to cover the fact it averages two of them and one of me over the year). The only bills he doesn't contribute to are anything to do with fixing up or paying for the house, we again have an agreement that I pay for all that, he has zero interest in the property regardless of how long he lives here. And yes, I've got that in writing now.
Due to a variety of reasons I
Due to a variety of reasons I was legally separated but not divorced for over 10 years.
The majority of our possessions had been divided, we lived apart and were for all intents and purposes no longer married. It was literally just a stamp from a judge that kept us married.
Yes, I dated. Yes, they knew I wasn't legally divorced.
What variety of reasons? How
What variety of reasons?
How did your dates feel about this?
There was a large sum of
There was a large sum of money, rsps, and a business to deal with.
We disagreed on what was an equal split. I said 50/50, he said 20/80
Also, because of the business his taxable income was only $10K a year. He wanted to base CS on that, I refused and so he didn't pay me CS for the first 3-4 years.
My lawyer said it would cost a fortune in court costs, forensic accountants and time. I decided to leave the money in the lawyers trust account and wait him out.
I'm really good with money, he isn't so I knew he'd eventually need the money and we'd work it out.
In the end it was a 30/70 split, for me.
My dates were fine with it. I was never very serious about anyone till I met DH. And he wasn't divorced yet either, so we didn't have a problem. We both knew we were divorced except for that piece of paper.
We were both legally separated, so not responsible for the exs debts and wouldn't have to share with them if we'd won the lottery, lol.
Thanks, that's closer to the
Thanks, that's closer to the situation here than many of the other responses. He didn't leave his wife for me, they were separated and living separately when we met, he pays his share of the bills and food (and by his share I mean covers both himself and the kids), I don't babysit the kids (and he doesn't expect me to), he does his share of the cleaning, cooking, etc, and does discipline them just fine when needed so absolutely none of that is the issue here. The only issue is that I do not want to mix finances until his divorce, but I didn't sign up for living in a smaller house with two kids for the next 8 years. Unless I buy a bigger place on my own then it's either that or he moves out - and it's my dilemma because I'm the one that wants the increased privacy it would give us, he's used to sharing with the kids and I'm not.
P.S. For the record, my current place is big enough that the kids have their own bedroom - it's just that they're either stuck in there playing or reading or we have to compromise on TV/gaming consoles (they don't have consoles in the bedroom so that's hooked up to the main living room TV). I don't especially want to sit there for 3 or 4 hours a day watching them play x-box or watching disney movies even when I don't want to watch TV myself, and if we put things like that in their room he can't control when they shut it down for bedtime as well. I don't want to go hide out in my bedroom, but that's getting to be the only option when they want to play or watch TV. I feel horrible telling them they can't play or watch if I'm not, but I also don't want to have to sit watching the disney channel for three hours.
What variety of reasons? How
What variety of reasons?
How did your dates feel about this?