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Proud of DH

stepper47's picture

If you are following the saga, our last episode was about how SD16 told her dad that he should give her money each month since she chose to live full time with her mother and is not using our food, electric, and water.  DH kept that in for about a week before he told me about it late one night, and that he had left that conversation with, "he would have to think about it"(which I feel was not the best answer, but I know this is hard for him, so it was much better than "ok, how much do you want?")  He and I had not talked about it since.  Tuesday he told me that he and SD made plans to go to dinner last night.  I asked if he had made a decision...and he actually surprised me by saying yes, he was not going to give her what she is asking for.  He said he asked her to dinner because he wanted to have that conversation face to face.  Meanwhile, the only communication she has given him in the last couple weeks is to ask if he made a decision yet.  She ended up cancelling bc she said she had to pick up a work shift, but reached out today to say she could go tonight.

He said it started out great, she was talkative, they joked around....until toward the end when the conversation went to her question.  He told her  that he pays child support to her mom to help with things like food, and that he will continue to help with things she needs for school, sports, medical, etc like he always has, but he was not going to be handing her money each month.  She immediately got angry and came back with a list of why he should...things like, he doesnt have to do her laundry, she doesnt take showers here, doesnt est food here....but he said he stayed calm and shut it down. She said if he had planned to tell her no, why did she even go to dinner then.  She called him an awful person and that all he has done is break her heart since she was 10 years old, also that he needs to take a look at himself because all of his relationships are awful right now (there has been a situation where his parents have continued to enable his sister's criminal activity, so he had distanced himself from all of them right now).  He told her he is sorry that she feels this way, all he has ever wanted was to be her dad, and he has done his best to support her financially, emotionally, and by showing up and being there.  And that he was still not going to pay her.  She tried a couple last digs about how if her mom takes him to court, he will have to pay a ton, and then demanded $100 because she needs new shoes.  He told her child support is between him and her mom, and they could go shopping for shoes together.  By then they were at her mom's and she angrily got out of the car...he said he loved her and she said she didn't love him, and thanks for making her cry for the millionth time...

And i am sure this is a heavily edited version, he tends to leave out the cursing and name calling.  I am floored and amazed at the level of entitlement and flat out meanness.  But I am not surprised, I have seen this coming for years because she had been allowed to believe she is the center of the universe and on her parents' level.  Well, I guess I am a little surprised at the level she has taken it.  But for today, DH is seeing through the manipulation, and that giving in to these things will cause more harm than good in the long run. It is just such a shame, things should not have to be this way....

RisingtheWave80's picture

YAY for DH! it is NOT easy for a parent to take that abuse from their child. As you have read my SD (who will be 14 in a few weeks) threw this type of bs with DH. She said that if he paid her mom more that she wouldn't be so broke and that is the time I lost it on her and said "Your mom wouldn't be so broke if she didn't spend thousands of dollars on you each month on things you do not need, whereas your father just sent a $1,000 check for your braces deposit." they don't get it and I assume much of this entitlement comes from BM talking shit about not having enough money or how dare DH have a life outside of his daughter where he spends ANY money that isn't on her"

I am happy your DH finally saw the light, stepped away from being bullied by a 16 year old and stood his ground. A very important step

Thisisnotus's picture

OMG yes. The BM shit talking is real....she is always telling them how she doesn't have any money and says things like "I don't know what your dad thinks he is doing over there" Mind you these kids at 16 and 11 don't know about the amount of CS DH pays their mom.....they don't know he pays anything at all. The "go ask your dad" is non-stop when skids need something.....

I am so happy for the OP, this is a big step.I'm still waiting on my DH to see what happens.....SD16 demanded he buy her a new iphone last month...says BM said he had to....it hasn't been brought up again....time will tell.

step to grown children's picture

Maybe because I have daughters and I'm a mom who pays child support but my girls got my back!

If BD says I have no money, they question him. If he says ask mom, they say no, she pays you child support for a reason. 

Its actually hilarious and refreshing to see my girls stand up for me. They appreciate more when I do buy them things because they receive it as "extras"

My oldest moved in with me when she was 16 I think 

tog redux's picture

Wow! Good for him. As hard as it is, this is so good for her long-term and for their relationship down the road. My SS19 tried demanding stuff when he was alienated and DH shut it down. You can see, now that he’s back, that he respects DH, even if he doesn’t feel close to him yet.  He doesn’t view DH as just an ATM. 

Your DH has to see the long-term benefits to her, even if it hurts.  And you know that if BM does go back for more CS, she ain’t gonna give any to SD and SD knows it. 

I hope you rewarded him richly for that. Smile

stepper47's picture

I am so glad he is seeing the light also, and I am hoping it will help turn the tide away from it being a relationship only based on what he gives her.  That is all it is right now. He said it was like a switch flipped, they were having a great time, then she asked if he was going to give her the money and it all changed when he said no.  He wasnt really in the mood for "rewards" last night, but I doing my best to reassure him that the things she is saying are. Ot true.  He was just standing here with tears in his eyes, he said a huge part of his identity has been feeling like he was a good dad, and now he is hearing from his child that is not true.   Part of what drew me to him is how dedicated of a father he is.  True he parented a lot out of guilt, but he fully loves his kids and has always been there for them.  She can't see any of the good right now.  But you are right, even though this is so hard and it hurts, long term this is truly for her good.  I am afraid she is learning to base relationships on what people give her, and that's setting up for a hard life

futurobrillante99's picture

Please let him know that kids in homes where both their bio parents are still together ALSO say crap like this to their parents - good parents. It's not a failure on his part that she's an entitled, manipulative twat. Yeah, maybe her mom had something to do with it, but maybe, just maybe, she's wired this way and there was nothing he could do to prevent it.

Proof of good parenting is NOT that your kids like you. It's that you do the right things even when they "hate" you for it.

ITB2012's picture

"Proof of good parenting is NOT that your kids like you. It's that you do the right things even when they "hate" you for it."

THIS. That's exactly it in a nutshell. This is what I've been trying to get through to DH for years and years (and years and...). He still doesn't see it.

tog redux's picture

What he just did shows he IS a good dad. He didn't take the easy way out, the route that would make her "like him" in the moment. That's what good parents do.  Making a kid happy all the time is BAD parenting. 

hereiam's picture

What she is doing is disgusting. Asking for money is a normal teen thing, but expecting to be paid because she doesn't want to come over, anymore, so is not using resources at his house, is something completely different. She is conniving and manipulative. And, basically threatening him to pay up or he will pay "a ton" in child support? I would have been livid.

My SD28 gives my DH the, "You're a terrible dad" speech, also. It's a combination of him not doing what she wants, things that happened in the past (real or imagined), and her BM in her ear.

My husband loves kids and is very nurturing. He is the one who took care of SD when he and BM were married. He is the one who played with her, fed her, he took her everywhere with him. He believes that she is still mad at him for the divorce (BM is the one who kicked him out) and leaving her with her mother (he really didn't have a choice).

Your husband should not doubt how good of a father he is because of an angry, bitter, manipulative teen.

I know it hurts, though. Not only to be told that but to realize that your kid only wants money from you, not a real relationship.

Wouldn't it be nice if our husbands could tell these brats that they are horrible daughters? I would love to see the look on my SD's face!

advice.only2's picture

Jesus your DH has a Spawn just like my DH! Thankfully we never hear from her or see her. Once DH cut off the money train Spawn had no use for him.

Cover1W's picture

Good for him! Your SD sounds like my OSD. She manipulates until she gets what she wants. Then nothing. DH is still two steps behind but getting better. He had an evening similar to this in the spring which made him start thinking about how OSD works....

shamds's picture

Daddy doesn’t do the laundry

in my family of 4 and daily washing we don’t get anywhere close to $100. As you’ll find with pas kids, the excuses are just ridiculous 

if hubby didn’t put his foot down now, it’ll be never ending

tog redux's picture

Yeah, you have to wonder who did the math on all this money that’s owed. Sounds like BM’s a little annoyed at having to fully support SD. 

Petronella's picture

The amounts being charged are certainly absurd. But no matter what a monster the kid is being, BM should not have to “fully support” her. OP has mentioned that they were previously on a 50/50 custody schedule or some such, and her husband paid a small amount of child support. Now that it’s clear the SD will be with BM full time for the foreseeable future, I do think it’s time for a CO that reflects that reality. That means DH should be paying the correct amount of CS going forward. I believe OP mentioned in her last post that this would be about twice what he’s paying now, which makes sense. 

OP, your husband should speak with his lawyer because I guarantee BM is speaking with hers.

stepper47's picture

I did suggest he speak to a lawyer, at least to understand the possibilities that could happen.  If BM wants to take him to court, or even just have a conversation about how much more she may need, we will do what we need to do.  But instead, she and SD made the decision that SD would live with her, after SD left here in a rage one night because DH called her out on lying and sneaking around, and has not been back.  So he is not  to rushing to go to court to support that at the moment.  I think he is still holding on to some hope that she will be back at some point, but I am thinking that is not going to happen

shamds's picture

Getting child support from the ex. If she isn’t working and getting a job but rather leech off the ex then thats hardly fair on the dad is it and relaity is alot of these mums choose to not work and cry “poor me i’m so poor and my ex pays nothing” when he is paying what the court ordered

if the living situation has changed where bio mum has their daughter more, its her fault for not addressing this in court but rather use the daughter as a weapon. Children should mever be used as a middle person because an adult parent refuses to grow up and address the issues

Petronella's picture

I don’t remember whether OP has mentioned whether BM works or not. I assume she has other sources of income other than child support because right now Dad is paying only a minimal amount of CS. If I had to guess I’d say BM probably works.

You may disagree, but I do believe that a parent who no longer has any parenting time with the child, should be paying whatever amount of CS the government tables have set for his income.

Sure they could sit back and do nothing and wait to see if BM asks for full CS. The disadvantage to doing that is: BM May do nothing now, then in a few years dad may suddenly receive a demand for retroactive CS plus interest. That’s why I suggest that dad get out ahead of this now and get child support reassessed now. 

tog redux's picture

But he's not choosing to give up his parenting time, SD is refusing to come over. He should wait for BM to file.

Oh, and you can only get CS back to the day you file, not for years and years of past time.

Petronella's picture

That part can vary. You never know what surprises a court may order. 

I also think it would be healthy for everyone involved, SD included, if dad responded to her bratty behaviour by taking her at her word and changing the custody schedule to reflect the new reality. I don’t like living by a legal fiction. If SD doesn’t want to live in my house then I don’t want any piece of paper still saying that she lives at my house.

I also think the OP and her DH should go ahead and get all of SDs remaining possessions out of their house and should redecorate and repurpose her former bedroom. That’s what we did here and it helped my DH psychologically not to have her stuff still cluttering up our place as a constant reminder and rebuke. And it helped Sd and BM to see that we meant business and were moving on with our lives rather than playing games.

tog redux's picture

Here at least, you absolutely can't give CS back beyond the date of filing - they do follow some rules!

I'm not opposed to getting the legal schedule on paper - that would really be the point of the contempt - and to make BM have to answer a bit for her choice to alienate SD from her father.

tog redux's picture

That is totally BM's right to do that. And that would be much healthier than putting ideas in her kid's head of getting money from DH for not using the resources in his home.

When I said fully support her, I meant - not having her at DH's 50% of the time. Clearly BM has been doing the math on that, and probably didn't occur to her when she lured SD away from DH's 50%.

And if BM DOES do that, then DH should file contempt for BM not honoring the custody agreement.  But pro se.

Petronella's picture

Hah, yeah that would certainly be an option for dad- file contempt on mom for not honoring the custody agreement. However I doubt any court is going to force a teen to go back to dad’s house if she doesn’t want to go. As I responded to Harry further down, I think it’s more to dad’s advantage that the custody schedule on paper reflect the reality of where SD is actually living and sleeping. 

tog redux's picture

No, they won't, and that's not the goal.

But BM doesn't get to alienate the kid, refuse to make her go to her father's and DH just opens his wallet to give her more money. Now, if BM was playing nice, and wanted to discuss this with DH and encourage SD to visit her father's home but to no avail, then maybe DH would be willing to pay more.

But instead, BM is encouraging SD to stay with her full time (or at least not encouraging her to go to her father's) and allowing SD to try to manipulate more money out of DH.  To me, that says alienation, and in that case BM should have to answer to the court for why she isn't sending SD for her parenting time.

BM is choosing to have SD full-time - why should DH have to pay more?

Petronella's picture

Stepper, I’ve been following your story as it’s quite similar to mine. Boy your SD is some piece of work. My SD after she flounced back to BMs, didn’t quite have the nerve to charge my husband for her not living here anymore but that’s the kind of logic she certainly was working with. And the long, abusive texts and phone calls, gave me horrible flashbacks to read about! Your DH did the right thing. I’m surprised he even took the time to “think” about it. He should have put SD in her place the moment she even floated such a ridiculous idea. But he did the right thing in the end. 

 

stepper47's picture

Oh gosh, so sorry you have gone through this also.  All of this has really made us question ourselves...all the things we have done wrong, did we do anything right.   How did your DH handle it?

Petronella's picture

It was very hard for my DH and he certainly questioned himself a bit. In hindsight I can see some things we could have done to set a better foundation when SD first came to live here- clearer expectations, insisting on getting more information and more documentation from BM. 

He had some health issues that summer which I put 100% down to stress. 

He finally told SD to stop calling him at work. And then told her he would no longer engage in these long text battles. Saying no made her even angrier but she did learn to desist. 

He always refused any requests for extra money. Some months later he did resume driving her around for things but she started the old pattern of just using him and our home again for rides and a crash pad so he put an end to that again. 

 

step to grown children's picture

Amazing how proud we are when our DH or even our exs stand their ground with these little brats. 

I know this site is about skids but I felt compelled to share/brag about my ex. My BD18 decided to move out at the end of the spring semester (first yr college) because I wouldn't let her drive 40 miles to see her little man at 2AM. So fine. Move out! 

Didnt take her precious car (which I bought) or cell phone (which I pay) out of pride. And threatened to quit college.

My ex and I stood our ground and did not give her any money, did not help her get to work, etc. We did keep her health Insurance.

My ex said it was the hardest thing he ever had to do but...

She is back at home! And enrolled for the fall. Grass is not greener on the other side. 

Harry's picture

Her decision not to come over, should not reflect a larger CS payments.  SD should not control finances of BF family.  She can do 50/50 as always. And her father can do the $100 washes ?..( Tide pods went up ?) 

Petronella's picture

That’s a good point, if it’s still 50:50 on paper I guess dad could go on still paying just the small amount of child support. However I do believe, especially with ill-behaved teenagers like this SD, that the custody schedule on paper should match what is happening in reality. If SD never spends a single night at Dads house anymore then that house should no longer be a legal address for SD. When she gets older and wants to drive, dad should not have to pay more for his own car insurance. When she starts going wild due to BM’s permissive parenting, it shouldn’t be dad’s house that the police bring her back to in the middle of the night. Etc. 

 

tog redux's picture

In my state at least, even with 50/50, one parent has the legal address for the child.  They aren't a legal resident of both places. So DH should be fine for that.