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Stick Together, Live Apart?

alongfortheride's picture

Hello Gentlemen,

I just had the idea to turn to the men for some perspective. After reading many of the posts, my situation is not unique, or the worst out there, but difficult for me to handle all the same and I am looking for solutions.

My fiance is the most amazing man I have ever met. We have been together for almost 4 years, and when I look at him, my insides still melt.

We have 6 kids between the two of us, and of course its not always perfect, but the kids get along as well as siblings do, our children do not hate their step-parents even though our exes make their unhappiness known.

My fiance's top priority post-divorce is civility with his ex. He gave her the house, paid off her car, and is fully responsible for the children's educational expenses, including aftercare and all extra-curriculars or camps. When she has asked him for money, he has given her money, which I am ok with if we have it, even though she makes six figures. The last time he gave her money though, we didn't really have it and he cut my household budget, and it did bother me. He opened a separate bank account so now if he gives her money, I do not know.

The parenting schedule is very hard to deal with. 2 days on, 2 days off, plus so much switching I don't know what is going on from one week to the next. The communication relating to the switching is constant, the exchange of goods, etc. She has interrupted every vacation we have ever taken with unnecessary contact, she books trips for herself for 10 days and over without checking to make sure the dates work, etc. She loves her children but is not very interested in being a mom, and my fiance shoulders not only the financial burden, but all responsibility with their athletic development, medical appointments, homework, etc. The irony, I don't think he doesn't find too much joy in being a dad but he is the type of guy who does what he has to do. His kids are a bit difficult, but I don't blame them. They get passed around so much and their grandmother and I handle alot of the "babysitting."

When I voice my unhappiness with the situation, I get shot down immediately. There is no empathy, there is no teamwork. He has been very clear that he will bend over backwards however much is needed to keep a civil relationship, and will not say no to her. I have tried asking him to put himself in my shoes, as in, how would he feel if I handled my ex the way he handles his, and while sometimes he understands, the overall environment doesn't change. When I read the other posts, my situation with his ex isn't as bad, but its the lack of support that I am having a hard time with. She was really mean to him in their marriage, was not supportive and made him feel bad about himself. I know it takes two people to end a marriage but I witnessed their interactions when I worked for him so while I am sure he made mistakes, I think the verbal abuse was pretty bad. If she was a really good person, who was dedicated to her kids, I think I would be more supportive and wanting to do whatever we could to make her life easier. I do not think he still has feelings for her, or that he is trying to keep the door open. I think she has made him feel guilty for leaving her, and I wonder if he wants prove to her that he is superman and can do it all. He has mentioned a couple times that he doesn't want to ask her for anything.

What he is not understanding that a few years of being her doormat is affecting the security, health and happiness of our home. If he has his kids too much he snaps at them, he doesn't have time to give his business the attention it requires, his health is suffering, his stress level is high (I am worried about him having a heart attack). I am unhappy because time with his children is an exercise in patience and discipline and not much fun, and he is sick of me complaining about the switches. Our time together has decreased. I feel like the "second" wife, and the punching bag. She is not overtly mean to me but she does passive aggressive things that he doesn't want to hear about (I stopped trying a couple of years ago). I feel that she knows that she can get away with whatever she wants.

So I am beginning to accept that if we stay together, he will continue to handle her how he sees fit. I really can't continue on like this, and I think my children would love to have me all to themselves in a one-bedroom apartment like we used to be. I have thrown my life into my fiance's life and I am starting to feel like the only one benefiting from our combined efforts is his ex-wife. I don't feel like he is doing the children any favors by allowing her to get away with botched homework assignments and long trips away.

He would never want me to describe myself as being second, and he does not believe that he treats me this way, but when the foundations of our home are cracking to accommodate her disinterest in parenting, I don't feel like we are a team. He thinks that because my ex hates me, that I want him to have a high conflict relationship too, and its hurts me deeply each time he says that. The one good thing about my (lack of) relationship with my ex-husband is that he does not interfere with us at all.

So the questions is, do I suggest living separately? I help alot with his children and I worry about the added burden upon him. Would it solve the problem? to a lesser extent I worry about supporting myself as I have been a stay-at-home mom for almost 4 years and worked for him the two years before that. A larger concern would be if he could handle me being on my own. Moving out would give me a sense of freedom, and he would need to trust me. Would not spending our days together affect our connection? I have also tried coming up with solutions to help me live with the situation like requesting that they change the parenting schedule, trying to get my children moved here for school days (they are an hour and a half away and I only have them holidays and weekends), having a child together (drastic), but all have failed for one reason or the other.

So, is living separately a viable solution to this problem?

Thank you in advance!

hereiam's picture

Living separately is not going to solve all of the issues. He is still going to be more concerned with BM's happiness, than yours.

I would do it, though, and then you will already be on your own if he doesn't ever get his act together, which he might not since he doesn't see a problem (which, of course, is also a problem).

You moving out might be what is needed, in more ways than one.

You have no kids together and you only have your kids on holidays and weekends so he is basically supporting you to take care of his kids? This is why he sees nothing wrong with what he is doing. Get your independence back.

alongfortheride's picture

I am lucky in that I don't need to ask him when I need to purchase things. He trusts me to run our household and doesn't question my spending. I think I would have left a long time ago if he was controlling about money. I have always worked and wouldn't be able to handle being restricted.

I think his only resentment is that we spend so much on my kids, (private school for my eldest) and yet I still have to pay child support to my ex-husband, when one of the children hasn't lived with him since 2013. I filed for a modification about 2.5 years ago but his lawyer keeps getting it stalled.

alongfortheride's picture

yes, he does. Like I mentioned before, he is an amazing man. Also, he had a budget for my engagement ring and I asked that he spend only 20% of that on my ring and put the rest towards my daughter's tuition, and this year the business went down and we have only been able to pay part of it. I work part time jobs here and there so my financial contribution to the family exceeds the cost of the tuition by a bit (we receive scholarship and do not have to pay the whole amount.) With the issues my daughter has with her father, it was important for me that she was in a small school setting. She isn't a typical teenager. She doesn't spend much money on clothes and things like that. She hasn't even wanted to get her driver's license!

Disneyfan's picture

You don't have a job. How can you afford to pay CS and private school? If he is paying for all of that and supporting you, how can you dare question anything else he does with his money??? :?

alongfortheride's picture

I believe that I said that I don't mind if he gives her money if we have it. My household budget involves paying the monthly bills and taking care of all of our children. I don't agree with giving her extra money and then having to juggle the bills in our home.

Disneyfan's picture

It's his money. If he wants to give to ex extra money for their kids, so be it.

Asking him to give less to his kids in order to benefit your kids is sick

alongfortheride's picture

I am not asking to give less to his kids. I am sorry you think that is what I am saying. I think it shows what a good person he is that he wants to take on 100% of their financial needs. I am talking about after all those expenses are paid, to give money to the ex-wife for her clothes, trips, etc. Our household budget pays for his kids, as well as mine. If he cuts that budget all our kids lose out. The main point I have been trying to make here is that the decisions regarding the ex do not benefit his kids, its all about not wanting to make her mad. I worry about that kind of decision making.

alongfortheride's picture

Ok, the first time he gave her money I had been waiting tables 5 days a week (I haven't not been working the entire 4 years), and he wrote her a check for more than I made in 3 months and that didn't feel too good. The second time I wasn't working. But really, the money isn't even the biggest issue for me on its own. I wish she would be more involved with the kids, so the money feels like rewarding her for being hands off rather than trying to encourage her to make them a priority. Thank you.

Disneyfan's picture

If this man is knowingly giving his exwife money to fund her vacations, clothes for herself....that speaks volumes about his thoughts/feelings on leaving her. As long as his choices do not hurt his kids, he's good. The impact his choices have on your kids shouldn't really be an isssue to him. Worse case scenario you and your ex will have to step up and be financially responsible for the kids you all created.

You and your exhusband have a sweet deal. I wonder what the two of you plan to do if/when this man wakes up and sees that both of you (and the BM) are using him.

tazztunes's picture

whoa! Marriage doesn't work like that. Even if they aren't legally married, but have been in a committed relationship and living together as a couple, it's not "his" money and "her" money. That's part of what you take on when you decide to get married. The couple has to be the center of the family, not the children. She's a stay at home mom to his kids which become their responsibility. And no where did she say she is asking him to give less to his, it's about the relationship with the ex. Once two people make the decision to divorce, they are no longer responsible for each other's actions and behaviors. His bending over backwards to not ruffle feathers with his ex will stay a problem. I agree if he's not willing to make changes for the woman he wants to be his wife who is supposed to be the person he loves, then she should leave. Not just move out, move on. At least until he decides to which woman he wants to make happy.

tazztunes's picture

whoa! Marriage doesn't work like that. Even if they aren't legally married, but have been in a committed relationship and living together as a couple, it's not "his" money and "her" money. That's part of what you take on when you decide to get married. The couple has to be the center of the family, not the children. She's a stay at home mom to his kids which become their responsibility. And no where did she say she is asking him to give less to his, it's about the relationship with the ex. Once two people make the decision to divorce, they are no longer responsible for each other's actions and behaviors. His bending over backwards to not ruffle feathers with his ex will stay a problem. I agree if he's not willing to make changes for the woman he wants to be his wife who is supposed to be the person he loves, then she should leave. Not just move out, move on. At least until he decides to which woman he wants to make happy.

alongfortheride's picture

edit

Disneyfan's picture

Were the two of you seeing each other while he was married? It's possible he is feeling guilty for leaving her.

You're doing all of this stuff for his kids, but only have your own kids for holidays and weekends. :jawdrop: Chances are he feels like you have a good thing going is wondering why you're complaining. He's supporting you and your ex is supporting and raising your kids.

alongfortheride's picture

you bring up a really good point here. Do I have a right to be complaining? He gives me love, financially supports me and my kids, we enjoy spending time together and we accept each others personality flaws. He doesn't understand why I let his ex bother me. The last fight we had about her, he said, "she has you right where she wants you." I, in turn, want him to understand that if I say, "while we are on vacation, can you please ask her to only contact us if there is an emergency," and he refuses to do it because he doesn't want to make her angry, why that would create feelings of insecurity, and contribute to a larger issue.

alongfortheride's picture

Wow, thank you everyone for such great advice. I appreciate the honesty and the perspective!

I guess I am going to look harder for a job!

Out of my 4 kids, we have 1 of mine 100% of the time while her brother and sisters go back and forth. She wanted to live with me for school time, but her father opposed it. She stuck to her guns and moved out and he still hasn't forgiven her so she is with me all the time. Its been almost 3 years since she had an overnight with her dad. She just turned 16.

I downplayed how much time I have with her brothers and sisters. I also get 7 straight weeks in the summer. We pay 100% of the extra-curriculars, 100% of the camps and vacations, and 100% of health insurance and health care costs. Their father hadn't taken them to the dentist in 3 years so there has been a lot of work to be done. My eldest daughters therapy has already reached 3k. I hired a custody evaluator last year and it was determined that he doesn't help them with their homework, doesn't take them to the doctor, so not sure how much "raising" he is doing but definitely the time share arrangement has allowed me to build a life here. I think about moving back to where they are but their father has done some pretty horrible things to me before and after the divorce and when I see him, I shake a bit. Its been over six years and he has taken me to court about 20 times. I feel like he will never leave me alone and I feel safer being in a different town.

I had my eldest before I could graduate college, went back to school and worked 3 jobs when I left my ex. He filed for full custody so I fell short of getting my degree. I had 4 kids in my 20s so my resume is a bit fragmented. I've been looking for work, because I agree, it would be good for me and the kids. The main reason the evaluator didn't recommend the other kids to move with me was because I was too financially dependent on someone else. I came so close in the past few months to finding a job I could really sink my teeth into, having 2nd interviews and being one of two candidates being considered. The hit on my self esteem was pretty hard when I didn't get them but your posts remind me not to give up.

He was living in a hotel, but still married, when he told me how he felt about me, and asked for a divorce a few weeks later. So, you are probably right, there is some guilt there even though she had started talking to someone before he had asked for the divorce and had a boyfriend within a week.

We both acknowledge that we have never experienced a closeness like the one we have with each other, and we have so much fun together whether we are at a music festival for watching a movie in bed. We give each other a lot of love and it makes me sad that possibly love is not enough.

I think your comments are all spot on. I need to be serious about finding a job and reassert my independence.

LikeMinded's picture

For once I agree with Sue and her magnificent spelling.

If you're "just short" of finishing your degree, go for it. You're in the perfect situation to get that done. Then, get a good paying job. If, at that point you still feel like moving out, at least you'll be in a better position to do it.

alongfortheride's picture

Thank you for the honesty Smile

I don't really think of myself as crazy or immature. I do think that I put others ahead of me to a fault.

I would love to go back to school. I only have a year and a half to go. This is the only thing holding me back: Since neither my ex or myself have a degree my children are considered first generation college students and are better positioned for financial aid for college, according to my daughters college counselor. My savings for the children's college is minimal, I am not expecting my ex to contribute at all. he has ignored my emails trying to discuss getting the kids better poised for scholarships (he ignores all my emails). I have been trying to decide whether it makes financial sense to get the degree now. I looked into going back to school one class per semester and found out that I can start in the fall at the University I last went to.

I do agree with everyone's advice about getting a job. I have worked some part-time or temporary positions over the years and feel good about contributing, and think that a proper full time position (I used to be pretty high up in my fiance's company) would not only give me some financial independence, but more respect around the home, and will reinstate the self-esteem I have lost over the past few years.

I also agree that so much of my situation isn't bad at all! I just have a really hard time with the constant schedule switches, not knowing when we have the kids, and all the extra coordination that comes with a 2 day on/2 day off schedule. Normally, I am very go with the flow, but I like that my schedule with my children doesn't change, and I can plan accordingly. He feels that if he asks his BM for anything that it will "start a war," and I am not understanding that.

thanks again for your response!

alongfortheride's picture

also, about 2 years ago I asked him about me going back to school and he said he didn't think it made sense going back to school unless I studied something practical. I am one and a half years away from my degree in .....political science Smile

My ex was ordered to pay half my student loan bills that we accrued while married as we used a lot of the money for household expenses. He has not paid and I ended up defaulting but recently did a consolidation and my lack of income makes the payments $0 but at least I am "paying as agreed." That is what prompted me to look into taking a class per semester. I appreciate the kick in the butt to stay on it, though Smile

alongfortheride's picture

Now that I have had some time to read over your responses, and really think about them, I find that I am surprised about the connection made between working/SAHM/finances (which was meant just to be background), and my original complaint about how I feel the best interests of our home are being ignored in order to keep the ex happy.

I would have never thought that one would have anything to do with the other and instead be separate issues.

My contribution to his life, his kids, their health, his business, his overall happiness is not insignificant, but there is no way to put a number value on that. My kids are so much happier since I stopped working as they now have my "full" attention. I may not be personally better off, but the people whom I love are. It makes me a little sad to realize that not bringing home a regular paycheck has could be a factor in determining my right to respect.

hereiam's picture

Bringing home a regular paycheck doesn't determine your right to respect, but is sure gives you options when you are not respected, and you admit that your fiance will do what he wants, regardless of how if affects you and the home; that there is no teamwork and you get shot down if you bring up your unhappiness with the situation.

A lot of people, whether it's intentional or not, whether it's done consciously or not, feel that they have the upper hand when they are the one paying the bills (or a majority). Your entire post is basically about your fiance and his lack of respect for you. His top priority is getting along with (giving in to) his ex. Hmmmm.

You admit that you are unhappy, that you would have a sense of freedom if you got your own place, and that your kids would probably love it, too.

alongfortheride's picture

He already takes on 100% responsibility for the kids. I am talking about "play" money. I don't agree with giving her play money unless our finances our secure.

Sorry you disagree.

Disneyfan's picture

His finances are secure, yours aren't. He earns the money, so he's free to decide how he spends it.

alongfortheride's picture

I have to admit, that the mooch comment stings a bit. I used to work for him, 70 hours a week and threw my heart and soul into building his new company. I worked for peanuts because I had faith that the company would do well and my pay would increase. Two months after the company starting turning a profit we decided to get together. He is adamant about not working together and i miss my job greatly. I gave it up because my feelings for him were strong and I felt that staying at home was the best way I could continue to support him while he did great things, and was best for all of our kids. I have had his kids teachers approach me to tell me what a wonderful influence I have been on them. I have had aftercare teachers tell me what an improvement they have seen in their behavior. His family loves me, as do his best friends, so I must be doing something right. I miss my job but I'd rather have him than have continued my career there. It makes me feel good to take care of him.

Disneyfan's picture

If you worked for peanuts while his company got off the ground, can you imagine the sacrifices his exwife made during that same time period?

More than likely she was the one holding everything together financially at home while he grew his business. No wonder he feels guilty and is willing to give her money now.

alongfortheride's picture

Good point. I only met her a couple of times at office parties and she would bash him in front of his employees (myself included), and it would be pretty awkward. He had always been a really good provider and felt that this business had a lot of potential. I can see how even though she was hurtful and unsupportive that he would want to give her money partly in guilt and partly to show that maybe she should have had some faith. Thank you for your insight.

Disneyfan's picture

:jawdrop: :? :jawdrop: :?

You have got to be kidding. Having faith doesn't pay the bills.

Chances are mom wanted a spouse who was capable of helping to provide for their family. Heck, you didn't even bother to start dating him until the company started to turn a profit.

alongfortheride's picture

I didn't expect this discussion to turn towards the finances, I didn't get too much into the details as my original post was already so long, but I feel that the money is really important to some people posting so I will explain in more detail. I have not been a stay at home the full 4 years. I have worked on and off. I even managed a large project at his company for half a year (didn't collect a paycheck for that though). He supports me working if I want but he says that the benefits should outweigh my contribution to the home. For instance, I started working at a retail store handling shipments, and am at work at 6am all this week. Normally I take his kids to school, saving him 2 hours of sleep. Also, I make him a proper breakfast every morning that now he is waiting for. I only started this week, but I would guess that after a month or so, he would wonder if it was worth it. when be depends on me for certain things, his life gets harder if I am not available to help with them.
It feels weird to have to defend our arrangement so much, but I guess I should have gone into more detail in my original post.

Suemm44's picture

To the original poster.
I've been you. I've moved out and got a low paying but maintaining income. Kissed the luxuries good bye.
Because at the end of the day, you my dear have to feel good about you.
It sucks being last.
I've been there.
You may struggle . You may be poor. But you sure as hell will be free of that drama with BM. And at the end of the day a man doesn't make a woman a woman .
You make you feel good. You put you as a priority and love on your children.
It'll all work out. Empower yourself

Rags's picture

You have a dificult situation. I have a question. He has opened a blind account that you do not have access or visibility to. Do you really think that you are equity life partners?

Income is not what I am refering to when I use the term equity life partners. He pawns his spawn off on you, caters to his toxic XWs every whim, has no balls in dealing with her but has them when dealing with you.

Is this really a person you want to live your life with?

Good luck.