12yr SS doesn't do chores, plays videogames, TV, and shows his passive aggressive (silent) side - is it no respect? or is it me?
SO I have been living with my gf and her son for six months now. We have a newborn daughter and have had to adjust to living together pretty fast.
GF and I get love each other and get along so much, it's amazing I have found someone so compatible.
Her son, now that's a different story.
I am pretty open-minded about most things and will try things once, at least. Having worked in a school system for so long, I have had experience with the 'youth.' Always encouraging the importance and opportunity for education in order to get far in life...and yada yada yada!
One other thing i should mention - I have had long-term relationships with the 'step' in the title before. Nothing new for me.
So here is the situation:
My current SS is living a very 'entitled' life. He's 12. Has the backing of his bio grandmother, grandad, and friends parents (they think he's a total gentleman). He doesn't do chores, leaves cups and plates everywhere, takes stuff without asking, eats up the entire house, and is stuck to the tv playing xbox and watching tv all day and night.
Has MOM wrapped around her finger (add to that list grandma and grandpa).
To his credit: He is 'quiet' and doesn't talk back (although sometimes I think he's plotting my silent but painful death somehow)
He is a very decent student, if anything, or so it appears. And he's good with the wiring of the WiFi and Xbox (cant understand why water+cup is a foreign language to him)
My gf thinks that when i ask him to do something, like pick up a cup or do your bed, that I may be 'picking on him.' When we put up parameters (like no VideoGames in front of the baby - he finds a way to play a 'G' rated game...like this is supposed to be make it better) or 'pick up after yourself' - he places cups in the sink...Up until this year he never had his own bedroom, full refrigerator, or a hood-free neighborhood - yet he acts privileged and entitled! You'd think he would be humbled.
He is wearing me thin...and he knows it with his 'passive aggressive' side - the silence and the smirk! he doesn't even make eye contact with me anymore. He runs to mom to fish the 'yes' out of her with 3 or 4 attempts of asking the same question. Eventually he re-packages his question in a positive way to get mom to say 'yes' - (and she falls for it a lot). When he get a 'no' from me.
She knows this is putting a wedge in our otherwise pretty good relationship between the two of us. We talk about (as I dont argue with her about his actions in front of him)...her and I - we do get along great; throw him in the mix and it's a mess. I swear if not for my newborn I would have bolted!
I have threatened him with Chores, to no avail. Well, I am thinking of making a list of things that need to get done before tv+video games.
I wish to know how do I talk to 12yrs old? I have tried being 'his friend' - nothing. I have tried being 'harsh' - nothing. I have tried channeling communication thru my gf - nothing. What am I doing wrong here?
I have taken a step back at times thinking maybe it's me - i'm being too harsh, maybe. But then the next day it's something new. How do I talk to him, without crossing into the 'jerk' mode?
HELP!
My advice is to let your GF
My advice is to let your GF handle it all. If he leaves a cup out...go ask HER to pick it up. If you want his bed made...go ask HER to do it. ECT.
Do you think maybe you are trying to control this a little more than needed? I DO want a spotless common area, but I don't really care about the bedrooms. Kids/skids are not allowed to eat in their rooms so it can't get to nasty.
I do think that kids need small chores, but that is me...your GF does not believe that and she is his mother. He does need to clean after himself though. If he does not...get the GF to do it. She will get tired of you nagging her to clean up after him and will start making him do it. BTDT.
I have to ask...what is the deal about SS not playing games in front of the newborn?
yes...you are correct...no
yes...you are correct...no tv/video games before 2..and then some...
Hi Willow, and thanks for the
Hi Willow,
and thanks for the input.
The problem with the video games in front of the newborn has to do with the 'volume' and 'talk conferencing' the SS does while he plays the games....It sounds like a Wild night at a Bar, what with all the yelling and cussing and video game shooting noises!...we have a small apt.
I tried to pour it on to my gf at the beginning...but the problem with that was that she would pile on too much work what with the newborn (and I do help her a lot) and raising a lazy entitled kid. I noticed that to avoid the storm, she would just do it...not say a word..and he sat there and smirked! I feel bad for her losing control of his laziness. But I also blame her for not starting him earlier in age.
It's harder if it's your
It's harder if it's your house but I'd suggest to learn how to disengage. The more involved you get the worse it will be for you. Until your ss is about 16 -17 he is not only going to be a mama's boy but also very self centered, especially so if he hasn't been trained from a very young age to do these simple chores. It's teachable at this age of course but has to either come from his mom or an outside adult, like camp counselors, teachers, aunts, uncles, etc. You happen to be the last person to be able to impress any good living skills on this young man. He is sorta sneering at you b/c he knows you ultimately can't do a damn thing. I have 15, 16 and 18 yr olds in the house and they are just figuring out how to rinse and stack into dishwasher. I used to say clean your rooms and suddenly my sink was full. I would think dang. Yup, that's teens for ya! With my boys I can say put them into the dishwasher, with ss16 I say quietly to DH tell him to put them into the dishwasher. If DH doesn't follow through, then I say DH put them into the dishwasher, he usually always did things for ss to cover his butt, but now he isn't so much anymore.
Blended families are complicated aren't they?
blended families are
blended families are complicated, i agree with you
I see your appoint about the 3rd party telling him to do things, as opposed to me...
I know he knows I'm running thin on patience. He is sneering at me at a benefit to his amusement. I still have a couple of cards to play: xmas, and his bday before the year is up.
rinse is all i ask! all i ask....
^^^^^^^^agreed! I have these
^^^^^^^^agreed!
I have these same issues (annnnnd soooo many more) with my SS12.. I've been a part of his life for 4 years and this same battle started since day one..
What I learned, is unfortunately, you can't make your significant other see this the same as you - as in "he is an entitled, manipulative, disrespectful brat that you want to choke the shit out of most days".... sooo, since you love you better half you can't come right out and say this..
What you need to do is point out how these things affect her:
For example - instead of "ss12 is lazy and does nothing".. say "babe, don't you think since we are both so busy with the baby, work and other things in general it would make life easier if ss12 chipped in with a few things like putting his dishes in the dishwasher and picking up his stuff before bed each night?" If you phrase it so that it sounds like he's helping versus you "picking at him" the results are much better..
I've also stood back and let DH feel the burn with regards to SS12's daily drama.. let him get pissed, frustrated, disrespected.. etc. - WORN DOWN - to the point where he is grumpy and being a jackass to everyone in the home all because SS12 got him that way with his constant bullshit.. then at the end of the day, when he's bitten the head off every family member, said to him (very nicely) "babe, you seem in a really bad place.. do you realize you have snapped at everyone tonight.." This would cause him to open up and vent about why.. Tah-Dah!!
This opened up the door for some honest communication.. Is it perfect, no. But it's getting so much better..
thank you! i swear reading
thank you!
i swear reading your reply made me laugh a little - I remember those very lines from my tough-as-nails-dear mom!...and guess what?? it worked...I learned a good lesson in it all....
but things were different in the 80s to now. Entitlement seems to be packaged in those pesky video game bundles because the SS seems to be full of it!
I am taking notes
Oh and the passive aggressive
Oh and the passive aggressive shit.. Ohhh, that burns my ass!!
My ss is the KING of this shit.. he will sit there and ignore you/pretend like he doesn't hear you.. go "what" when you know he heard you and is just trying to delay or manipulate... but if you crinkle a wrapper and it sounds like candy 3 rooms away he sure as shit hears THAT.. I have literally done this..
"SS12 can you come help me empty the dishwasher?"...... ignored (he is literally within my sight and I know he heard me).. I ask again louder.. ignored..
then I start emptying it.. then get "distracted" and answer my phone and pretend to be talking to DH or someone (very quietly).. I'll mention something like "bring home ice cream" or "sure we can meet you guys at dave and busters"..
And ooooooh lordy, ss12 hears this!! then he will ask about it..
I calmly look at him and say "how did you hear that when you didn't seem to hear me the 2 times I asked you to empty the dishwasher?"
He just squints his beady little eyes and looks at me like he wishes I was dead.. so I tell him to finish emptying the dishwasher now that I know he can hear me ask him to..
Yea, I'm a bitch like that.. but you know what - it calls it what it is and makes him aware that I'm on to him.
I don't fall into the having to ask him 50 times trap.. I don't fall into the getting mad when he ignores me trap.. He tries to play games and I just end them for him.
good trick!... the SS will
good trick!...
the SS will not just ignore me he will then stare at his mom and wait for her to save his butt! But lately I am telling her "I was talking to him" stern and I'll get more silence from him, but then there's the 'look'....
i liked the D&B line, I think I'm going to try that one!
I would work it from the
I would work it from the angle of how much you love ss and want to help him. "Don't you think we should be giving him a few responsibilities around here so that he will know how to do these things when he's an adult?" "Don't you think it would be good for ss12 to join xyz extracurricular activity so it will look good on his college applications" (gets the kid out of the house and minimizes messes)-or even "Don't you think it would be good to teach ss about budgeting, money management by paying him a little bit each week to complete some chores around here"
Your ss reminds me a little of my ds14. He is a 4.0 student, is quiet, is very polite and mannerly at school-but he loves his video games and hates chores. I have found that there are a few chores that he does not mind doing and does well-so those are the ones I let him do. He has been doing his own laundry for a couple of years. He started that on his own, I have no idea why, but it does help out a lot. He also keeps his room fairly clean and neat for the most part. We have a screened in porch that he sits on a lot-so we typically give him that area to clean or make him vacuum the family room since that is where the computer is that he plays video games on. I don't have a problem telling him no video games unless you do this chores first. Dh (who is his stepfather technically) has a harder time with it. For some reason he expects to be able to say, "DS, would you please clean up the house?" and thinks that ds is just going to jump up and start cleaning the whole house. HA! He feels that it is disrespectful that ds does not. He also gets mad because sometimes ds just says nothing and does not answer him. He takes it personally. When in reality he is a quiet kid period,to everyone. Sometimes he says he just doesn't know what to say so he says nothing. I think it would be awesome if all we had to do was calmly ask a kid to do some housework and they'd do it-but I honestly just don't think it is reality based. Incentives work well and so do punishments. You already know the kids currency-video games-so use it to get him to do some things you want.
thank you
thank you hismineandours...good tips
He is signed up to AYSO soccer 2 times a week/1 weekend game. Which took a heavy twisting of the arm to get him to go. But he likes it, so far. And this is when I am able to do 'house' stuff around like cook for them, 1-on-1 time with my newborn, and fix things in peace while mom takes him out of the house. But now try to get him to go to the library and we get the 'kicking and screaming.'
as for:"Don't you think it would be good to teach ss about budgeting, money management by paying him a little bit each week to complete some chores around here" - I am an film accountant and have tried to explain to him the importance/value of the dollar, to only get more silence...and his cash cow seems to be grandma (who is spoiling him without our knowledge until he shows up with $$) - which I'm opposed to heavily! entitled, i tel ya!
I have made it clear to my partner that 'chores' will be done...we are in current discussions about that in these days. Just a rinse of a cup, is all i ask!
Hello greatgazoo, (love the
Hello greatgazoo, (love the name BTW)
What I am going to write is sure to invoke the wrath of the "Malleus Maleficarum" here but I'll explain to you what worked for me. I allowed my DW a chance to step up her game with her son (my SS). My SS, like yours has a pretty gross sense of entitlement as well. Chores were next to nil, and studying and homework was just something he did if he felt like it (which was never). Add to the list; he's a picky eater, refuses to go to bed when asked, runs to his Mom whenever I say "no" to him, etc. He loves his video games as well and he would often leave everything on.
He was driving me crazy. He's with us during the week, but on the weekends he would go to his Dad's and that is when I would breathe a huge sigh of relief! I found myself harboring nothing but ill feelings towards my stepson. Now how could I call myself a step-father and profess to be a positive role model in this kid's life if I harbored nothing but bad feelings for him? It was question that perplexed me for some time.
The first thing I did was try to remember what my life was like when I was his age and the things my father did to discipline me. Next, I spoke to my DW about what I deemed to be "my role" in this family. Like a general I told her what battles I was willing to fight.
So ask yourself what is it about this kid that you deem important? Responsibility? Chores? Table manners?Studying? Respect? For me it was SS's education. SS was doing poorly in school. One of the causes of this was because SS had piss-poor study habits. Seriously I would come home and catch him "studying" in front of the TV. One day, I had simply had enough. I woke up early and started rearranging his room so I could put a proper desk/study area in there. DW fought with me on this because I was moving SS's treasured toy box to the basement and throwing out a lot of the "MacDonald's Happy Meal Made-in-China crap" away. DW thought that what I was doing was cruel. When I wrote down in my blog on this board what I was doing, A LOT of people accused me of bullying and overstepping my bounds. I didn't care. SS education is important to me and it IS a hill I am willing to die on. SS still has lots to learn when it comes to good study habits, but he knows that my "radar" is on him and I won't put up with any BS from him. His Mom helps him with his homework and she has come to realize that my way is the "better" way. She admits now that she was not as "stern" with him as she should have been. However, the problem now is that when SS is confused and struggling with his school work, he tries to play the "victim" to get his mother to comfort him. He doesn't get that from me. If he needs help, I'll give it to him but I expect him to work at it. I expect results. SS knows this, so his attitude towards his studies has changed A LOT in the time he has been living under my roof.
So greatgazoo, if you want to affect change, first ask yourself what is it exactly that is important to you? Pick your battles. You won't get the changes you want overnight and on some issues you will have to seek a compromise but if you make it clear to everyone that there are some things you will not back down on, you will be better focused. For example, SS still shirks the bed-time rule in our home. Bedtime is 9:00pm on a school night. I used to enforce it but I don't anymore because it was stressing me out. So past 9pm I am completely disengaged from SS. If he asks me a question, I tell him "Go ask your mother". Past 9pm, he doesn't exist in my mind. School work OTOH, I am very engaged in.
thank you, draco! I too find
thank you, draco!
I too find myself harboring nothing but ill feelings towards SS. I have tried to get vocal with the importance of 'education.' I mention it at least once a day to her in his presence to get 'crickets' silence. The reason I said he's a good student so far, is because I think the breaking point will be when that first report card arrives in the mail. At which point we will see the influence of the video games. Now if the grades are top, I am no stranger to rewarding...but if they're bad, hmmmm...
One thing I did do was give him his space in his 'own room' - to no avail..the room is a pigsty! First rule will be 'bed making' every day before the games. But things will be different when he has to share room with his baby sister (after year 1).
I do have to ask myself what is it exactly that is important to the household? I will definitely pick my battles, as I know there will be room for compromise. But ultimately, I do want the upper-hand in this situation. I want to start with a few light chores, like mentioned above, before moving towards a more complicated lesson in life.
I do believe he has some good in him, its just taking a tough time finding it....but we'll get there!
Shame on your girl friend for
Shame on your girl friend for not making him listen to you. If I tell SD to do something and are does not my DH barks. Your job is to help this guy become a good man. Speak up bro, and take away some stuff when he's not listening just like your dad would have done.