GREAT NEWS!
As a sequel to this thread:
https://www.steptalk.org/forum/parenting/disengaging/some-days-i-get-sku...
This weekend, DW and I locked horns, and we got some serious progress.
We argued several times this weekend, and I think we're now back on track. Really, I said what needed to be said, and when she'd go into denial, I called her on that, and even told her that she didn't want to know the answer to some of the questions she was asking because she kept stopping and correcting me, but not to worry because since I'm the crazy one I had set up an appointment with my counselor Wednesday to get some ideas on how to explain my feelings so she'd stop doing that because we've lost that spark and I want us to get it back. "You remember what we used to have, it was good - and don't deny that you miss it. I want to get it back, though as long as you won't hear my feelings, I can't get it through to you."
I think a lot of it has been because I've been very unsure of my role. DW telling me what relationship I'd have with her kids was a major sticking point. She was saying she wanted me to be a friend, but she never asked her kids what they wanted. I had this conversation with them, each, and both said they wanted me to be more of a parent. When I told DW that her kids had said this, she said, "Well, I wasn't in on that conversation..." Denial.
She was really frustrated and so was I.
So when I wasn't close by, DW got to have a one-on-one with Thing 1, and he corroborated it.
So then DW said to me that she wanted me to establish the official step relationship with her kids, and left it up to us to figure out.
And we did!
I explained to them that snce I've been a SKid, I know it's not easy trying to figure out someone else's sense of humor and tone of voice, and I get it - so please feel comfortable to tell me if I'm confusing. I told them I didn't always get along with my SMom, and we had friction, but we all worked it out. I explained about boundaries and how WE ALL have them, and I want them to tell me theirs so I can respect them as much as I want them to know and respect mine. Also, I went over types of relationships, from friends to classmates and coworkers, to parents, to roommates, to steps (and how each has its own different boundaries) - and we came up with traits that each relationship would have and I explained how it's been confusing for me to have to shift back and forth from friend to parental to roommate and all around, and how I just wanted to know... what type of relationship did THEY want? I let them customize it. They told me the boundaries and pathways they wanted and we decided it together instead of someone deciding it for us.
And overwhelmingly, they wanted me to be more like a parent, all the time.
DW pretty much stood by and let us set this up, and we all agreed this was going to be how we'd do it.
So let's see how it goes, but this weekend, as tough as DW and I were with one another, turned out really well, and I'd say we're all a lot clearer on expectations, boundaries, and HOW WE WILL OPERATE.
I think the kids are relieved and will be happier. I know I will. I'm sure DW will. But the best thing is DW realized she can't be the intermediary over everything, and she can't set boundaries for others if they're boundaries we don't want.
Here's to making it work!
Amazing
very proud of you !!!!!
Wow, that's a huge convo!
Wow, that's a huge convo! Looking forward to hearing how it works once some time has passed!
Was a ground-breaker!
To be honest, I look back and am surprised we didn't do this a couple years ago. I would have saved a LOT of trouble.
Where we went wrong was I just sat back and let DW decide for us all. I had read a lot of the Boundaries books, and I should have stuck with what I know. EVERYONE has to set THEIR OWN boundaries. I really liked being able to tell Thing 1 and Thing 2 that I was going to let them choose what they wanted. I didn't reveal the dark side of my thoughts, that if they wanted "Roommate" relationship, they'd get that - which would mean that Christmas would bring them a card with a $10 bill. Call that Java's "December Surprise."
Next up: How Java Elevates Himself. DW said her kids come first, before me. She reiterated that this weekend, and I recalled someone here saying she's keeping me as a peer to her kids. I told her I won't be a peer to teenagers. That'll have to sink in, and it'll be part of what I discuss with my counselor on Wednesday. How to broach that tactfully and reasonably to let DW know that I'm not going to tolerate being treated as unimportant or less-than her kids. I've got a couple of exes who did that, and it was much of the root cause of the failure of those relationships.
I'll be curious to see what
I'll be curious to see what your therapist tells you to do. Money always seems to work as teens don't have much compared to the people who pay for everything. Maybe with the skids treating you as a "parent", she will have to readjust her vision of you.
I hope she can for your sake. Its humiliating to realize you are stuck in a situation because you fill a need instead of being cherished and desired for just being you.
Also, I love what I read on
Also, I love what I read on here recently, about "Kids are a parent's first responsibility, A spouse is the first priority". There is a difference. I think this definitely applies to your situation!
Day 2
Going well, skids seem to have a much more open mind, and the stress of the vacillating "what's my line" for me is a lot better.
I will say, though, since Thing 1 and Thing 2 came back from their dad's, I see a lot of DW's behavior going back to letting her kids call the shots. I'll discuss this evening, as to what DW was saying a few weeks ago, particularly regarding the use of "electronic devices," and noting that as is always the case, Thing 2 had her device and abused it, so the rules changed and limits were imposed for them both - AND Thing 2 has been grounded from hers indefinitely. But then, Thing 1 gets to do *whatever he wants as late as he wants* - and I can tell Thing 2 is getting extra frustrated that the rules are applied on her, but totally removed from her brother. So I know this will - WILL - W.I.L.L. - set Thing 2 up to not respect authority as she gets older. Not that I'm smart, I just remember the life lessons and remember watching things devolve in my dad and SMom's relationships with my SBrother and SSister. Uneven, rule enforcement, even if it's simply perceived, is a fertile breeding ground for deceit.
So, tonight, I'll have a sit-down and we'll all go over what the rules are again so we can all get on the same page.
Here's the fun part: This weekend, we're changing ISPs, and I'm hoping we can get one of the new smart WiFi hubs that requires someone ask for access and we grant it, and then also set time limits for their devices so they shut off at that time. DW said she wants these kids to self-police, but I see it's not working well, and Thing 2 is already getting resentful - and DW doesn't notice it.
Yes, because kids can always
Yes, because kids can always be trusted to self-police... If that were the case, there would never be punishments, would there?
We set wifi times for SS12 and it's awesome! We did have a few fights to get there. He was staying up really late during school, ignoring his bedtime. I'm the one with skids at night while my SO works, so I'm the one dealing with it. When I told SO it happened, he got defensive (shocker) and didn't really believe SS was staying up late. Um...I heard him....? I suggested the wifi timer, SO got mad and said he doesn't want SS to feel "like we don't trust him". Me: "But he was actually up past his bedtime, soo....". He said maybe when school started next year he would change it, but not this year. This was at the end of last school year. Flash forward to this school year, and SO decided to set the timer so the Playstation shuts off at 9, wifi shuts off at 10. It's been really nice, EXCEPT, when I busted SS on his phone past 10 because he was using DATA. Sneaky son of a.... I told SO and of course he gets defensive about that, so whatever, I'm done. I can't worry about it this much.
Still, I know a lot of parents who use the wifi times tactic. If it makes it easier for everyone, why wouldn't you?
Step-girlfriend said...
For the EXACT reasons YOU had to give on the SKid using Data. DW has no desire to rein in The Good Son and have him learning that rules apply to us all, no matter how cuddly-wuddly you get with mommie-wommie.. I'd feel different if she treated both her kids the same, but she's WAY harder on her daughter than she is on her son. Her brother and SIL see it. Her sister and BIL see it. I see it. Her son knows it and likes it because he's the beneficiary. Her daughter knows it and acts out because she'd like the attention.
And I will NOT "compensate" by being extra kind to Thing 2... I treat them about as similarly as possible. Thing 2 sees it and likes it, at least she does respect me... though Thing 1 expects EVERYONE to treat him special, and I think he's an entitled little twit, I have no use for him as long as that's his attitude.
So, DW will NOT want the timers set because she doesn't want her Good Son to feel unloved by having constraints on him.
Funny, but I know with iPads, latest update has a "screen time" feature that parents can set up and even get the report for how much time they've spent on apps, etc. DW isn't interested bc, I surmise, it'd mean she'd have to do some adulting and parenting.
My SO does this with his
My SO does this with his daughter. She is 'above' consequences. His son, however, always got punished when doing something wrong.
I pointed this out....and he didn't deny it.
He has recently been enforcing his words more and I hope to see even more progress shortly.
I really don't want our own infant daughter to grow up thinking that she's going to get special treatment because of how he treats his oldest daughter, because that is NOT happening.
Congratulations to you, the
Congratulations to you, the Skids and DW. I find that the direct approach far more often than not is far less painful than feared... and it works.
Enjoy!
Update 11/19
Thing 1 still getting to do whatever he wants without limits (since he's "such a good boy"). Been this way all along.
DW says Thing 2 is as daring as she herself was at that age. The saying she's going somewhere, going there, then "leaving to go somewhere else that wasn't in the plans" game gives her the mental ability to say she went where she said she was gonna go, so to her, it's not a lie.
Thing 2 is obviously frustrated that she gets no devices, but Thing 1 gets unlimited usage of his.
So, there we were, getting ready to go to a Christmas Tree lighting ceremony in FtWorth, and *suddenly* Thing 2 was saying she wanted to bring a fiend. "Java, is this OK with you?" Me, being JavaMan, I started off... "Well, you guys say I ask too many questions when posed with this type of situation, so do you REALLY want to know what I think?"
"Yes!"
"OK, (to Thing 2) who is this? Does your mom know her mom? Where does she live? How will she get here? How will she get home? When will she leave? and so on..."
Turns out Thing 2 was angling for a sleepover LOL, and after all the BS she's put us through, I had told her my default to that would be NO, she's planning it already?? I said, "Uhhh, NO."
Thing 2: "Whynot???"
Back of my mind, thinking, "If you've already forgotten - or if you think we should have forgotten, that's a red flag..." So DW and I said no sleepover, but they needed to get those details ironed out. I broke out the whole list of rules we had and went over them, Thing 1 and Thing 2 rolled their eyes and went through it all, but I wanted to make sure they had it FRESH on their minds. This was a handy leverage point later.
20m later... Plans ironed out, plan solidified, and we are ON.
DW picks up this girl, her folks are going to come to pick her up after they finish their anniversary dinner. Nice.
We lounged a little till it was closer to the time to leave, and Thing 2 and her fiend went out front. I was leery... she had been trying to brew up a side-deal and I was pretty sure she was gonna try it again, so I figured they were testing DW's boundaries. I figured they went to the park, so I asked DW where they were. "Oh, they're just out front... It's nice out..."
"OK, should we check on them?"
"Nahhhhh... They know we'll be leaving soon. They really want to go to this."
"OK." And I was thinging, "Yeah, right."
5PM... time to go...
Thing 1 came from his room, we started out, and lo and behold... guess who wasn't out front? Or in her room? Or in the back yard? Or in any other room? Ha, I was right to be suspicious! DW drove to the park, and she was making every explanation in the book. "Oh, they're probably on the way back home..." No, no, NO. Drove all over the neighborhood, nope. Back to the park, and there they were. By now, it was too late to go, we had spent 25 minutes looking for them.
So they came to DW's truck and finally said they didn't wanna go. Ah. Java's "sarcastic fake surprise face" popped brightly. They wanted to stay in the park.
Well, I was POd that they wandered off without saying where they were going, that they - THEY - changed the evening's plans for US ALL. They won. And DW let them.
So DW, Thing 1, and I went to eat. My preference would have been to take them home and tell them they're IN FOR THE NIGHT. DW is so much more lenient than I. We left those two in the park. I wasn't pleased...
While we were eating, we saw the Ring doorbell, they went home shortly after we sat down. We ate, then went home... Thing 2 was asking, "What do WE get to eat?" DW said, "There's plenty to eat, help yourself!" "Butbutbut..." DW pressed on... "You wanted to play in the park, but we were hungry, so we ate." "Butbutbut..."
Then DW caved and took them to this nice little place by the house, and DW and I went grocery shopping. I was let down by that, too, because I would not have rewarded their entitled attitudes AT ALL.
I did mention some of my misgivings while it was just us two. She basically knew I was right but wanted to be the cool mom and while she didn't SAY that, I could tell that was what she was thinking.
We got home from out Turkey Day shopping trip BEFORE Thing 2 and her fiend. Hm. They came in and complained about the whole meal and everyting. I was thinking, "Yup. That'd be the last time I'd give them mama's debit card and tell them to get whatever they wanted."
So we were relaxing... Thing 2 and her fiend went out front, DW said don't go far because it was dark and the fiend's mom would be picking her up on a moment's notice.
Now, I would have liked to have though these two girls had bubblegum in their ears and didn't hear us, but I know it was "We're gona do what we want anyway" that was on their minds. I knew it, they knew it - and I knew as much as they knew, DW was going to let them do what they were gonna do.
And my crystal ball said we were going to be driving around the neighborhood again looking for these two in a little while. I got the idea that it was only these two and me who just didn't think that any consequences DW would dish out would be unbearable, so OF COURSE, they were gonna do what they wanted.
And guess who was right?
Suddenly, DW's phone rang, it was this girl's mom. "Hiiiii! Had a great dinner! We'll be there to pick her up in 10 minutes!" Thing 2 and her fiend were not on the front step. Or in the yard. Or out back. Or in her room. Or anywhere on our street. Or...
Inside, I was laughing a little at the I Love Lucy moment when DW started offering, "Welllll, don't you want to go ahead and stay out a little longer and maybe have a nightcap or something?"
"Oh, nnno, it's been wonderful, but we're ready to go home..."
DW all panicky, it was kinda funny.
DW hopped in her truck and started driving around, then this girl's folks rolle dup, and I was sorta stalling... DW came back (no kids) and momsplained the situation. These two moms whipped up a story to deceive the fiend's dad and they left, DW said she'd bring the fiend to their house. The other mom enlightened us... Turns out, she was talking about meeting a couple of boys, Travis and some other kid. Hm, good to know!
They left, and we scrambled out... flashlight... looking all around. then these twerps texted from ANOTHER friend's phone. "We ran into another friend, we'll be home in a while."
I responded, "No. Go home NOW." they said, "We see you, you drove right past us."
I was getting madder... Finally, we got them to say where they were, and we were just rolling up as the fiend's mom called DW. I handed the phone to this girl and we could hear her BLASTING her. It was SPECTACULAR. Then this lady explained to DW that her husband put 2+2 together and that was enough for him to say he wanted to pick her up, not wait for us to drop her off.
I felt like I was getting dragged into the whole mess. Grrrrr...
We got home. The two girls went to Thing 2's room... First off, I would have made them both sit in the living room in front of us till this fiend's mom picked her up... But DW let them go there, then she listened through the door... Seems they were both scared witless. They knew things went too far.
After a while, the minivan pulled up, and the dad was standing there, this girl went to him and was giving a big hug...
And we took Thing 2 into the master bedroom and read her the Riot Act. And she fessed up that she had an unauthorized electronics device. DW confiscated it (it was DW's originally, but she had forgotten about it). Thing 2 had been chatting up a storm every bit as much as before all her devices had been confiscated for abusing others and abusing her privileges.
"Hate to say I told you so..."
OK I didn't say that, but everyone in the house knew I could have.
DW and I have had several chats where I mention the disparity between the 2 kids and how I see it's getting to Thing 2. DW says, "Well. She BLEW it. She's done something really wrong."
And I'm thinking, "Welll... End of summer, DW said there would be school year rules, and while Thing 2 messed up, the rules came down on her, and rightfully so... but the rules for Thing 1 have basically gone back to nonexistent." I've gently mentioned this several times now, and alluded to Thing 2's friend who attempted suicide (would have succeeded if her brother hadn't come in and cut her noose down - she was unconscious), and how my counselor said this event puts Thing 2 in a MUCH HIGHER LIKELIHOOD that she might try that.
DW says she's going to set up an appointment, we shall see...
I'm going to continue my approach, but will ratchet it up JUST ONE notch. With SKids being at their dad's this week, she and I will be able to have better opportunities to discuss all of this. Thank goodness for that, at least.
smh
smh
Hopefully your DW will pull her head out of her ass and gain some enlightenment. Sadly Cranio-Rectitis is often an incurable condition.
Take care of you.
I can't cure it.
My counselor can't cure it.
Only DW can cure it.
And that's where counselor and I will guide DW to cure it.
THEN, DW can provide a much more effective Recto-Craniectomy for Thing 1 and Thing 2.
In the real estate trade, they'd say "This place has good bones." We can do this.
Man, what a story. I would
Man, what a story. I would have lost my shit on those people and let DW hang herself with the other parents. Maybe some peer pressure from other parents would knock some sense into DW.
Honestly, I don't know how you do and more importantly WHY???????? Love? DW should be ashamed of herself for putting you through this crap becuase of her crappy parenting.
Well...
I've learned that losing my cool doesn't do anything but cause everyone else to get defensive, and then we get NOWHERE.
I have been firm in my approach, I WON'T BACK DOWN. She is in denial, but more often than not, I'm calling it, and she's seeing it. I'm like the Soothsayer. Her kids start doing something, and I point it out, and DW says, "Would you just trust them?" or something like that. OK, I'll let it ride... Then the kids do within 5 degrees of my prediction, just how I said... she knows I'm no dummy.
I watched my SMom be the "coolmom" to her kids, and it BLEW UP in her face. I know the stakes, I know the risks, and I know the causes. I'm trying to get DW to come to my vantage point and see things from my perspective, though it seems she prefers to regress her thinking and remember how her dad was a hardass (DW's brother and sister privately told me he was firm and direct, but not a hardass except when they were screwing up - and DW was a screwup as a teen, so she kept on having to get the same lessons heaped on her).
It appears that DW thinks that because she was a rambunctious teen, she feels like she's being a hypocrite if she disciplines her daughter for doing the same thing she did at the same age. My therapeutic comment to DW is, "Well, you STOPPED doing that stuff because it's WRONG. You learned that because you received consequences; if you had no sharp consequences, you would not have learned, and you probably would have had to learn it from an employer or a spouse or something else much later in life. So, this is why WE must PARENT." I've led the horse to the water. I've shown her the water. I've demonstrated the water is safe by drinking the water in front of her.I've cupped water in my hands and held it to her mouth. Still, no drinkie-drinkie. Clearly, I'll be leaving this to the third party counselor to do. Evidently, "Java just doesn't understaaaannnnnd." When DW regresses like this, it's like I'm dealing with ANOTHER teen. I'm sure she needs to resolve the relationship she had with her (now deceased) dad (it was turbulent and she has some regrets).
Why do I keep on? I'm committed. She's awesome in so many ways, but her parenting needs an update so she's not going to parent with a teen's perspective. My counselor said we have some good stuff to work with, and I agree. Just need to get 'er in there and make it happen.
Lol.
Lol.
My neighbor has four adult children living with him, the youngest is D19. Neighboor let D19's BF move in. I asked him how he's gonna like being a grandpa. I started calling him "Grandpa". His head spun around, and he kicked the BF out.
Yeahhhh...
That's what I'm talkin' about.
Sometimes, the neighbor with the joke is the perfect "Shake-N-Wake."
No way would I allow that. DW wouldn't, either.
We told Thing 1 what the progression of her mistakes would be. Next up will be I remove the door from her room and store it in the garage. I told her I do NOT want to do that, but a hammer and a skinny screwdriver, two hinge pins, and it'd be done in about 3 minutes.
I made ABSOLUTELY SURE that she knows that I love her like a daughter, and we aren't doing this to HER, but we are doing this to get her to stop giving us bad behavior, and that we are feeling a need to keep a watchful eye on her because she CHOOSES to be repeatedly dishonest. Her choice, her repercussions.
-----------------------------------
On a side-note, SKids are at their dad's Thanksgiving week. THANK GOD! I needed a break, but also needed some time to work on DW without the SKids around, to let her know I'm backing her as long as she's going to follow through. Veiled is my unsaid comment that if she falls down and won't do some adulting and parenting, she'll own the whole shebang. Allies, or not - that's the choice; I won't be an enemy - I'll choose to be Switzerland before I do that.
Strange how she wants her
Strange how she wants her kids to make the same mistakes she made knowing what she knows. I don't think she looks back over her life with enough shame about it all, more with a romantic mindset. Not much wisdom in that.
I had a lot of "fun" as a teen and got away with a ton of stuff. I also didn't want my girls to get in over their heads and started putting them on notice as preteens that I was on to them and I will figure out what they are up to. LOL. You want them to have memories but not get in trouble. Its a fine line to strattle as you find balance to raise competent kids that can function as adults without help. I bet if she could get away with it, DW would joing SD on her adventures, living the life! Did she have a bit of trauma of some kind that is keeping her stuck at the age of a teenager??
Good questions.
She tells me that nothing bad was ever intended on her part, and nothing bad ever happened aside from her dad getting mad as Hell.
No friends were seriously injured, none were knocked up, none were locked up, and it was all great fun aside from her dad being SSSSO MEAN.
I call her lucky.
In my associations just two towns south of where she lived, there were several pregnancies (and abortions) - none from me; a few deaths due to intoxication and or driving - none from me; and quite a bit of partying, underage drinking and/or drug experimentation - some of which I did dabble (emphasize the drinking part, shamefully including a few times of driving while drunk). I drove my car fast, did some really dumb stuff, and even if no one died and I never had any serious accidents or property damage - AND I had no speeding tickets or anything, I consider myself VERY fortunate to have survived unscathed, while learning from OTHER PEOPLES' MISTAKES. And I suppose in forming this message, THAT is what I need to emphasize to DW.
Reflecting back, yeah... I did some MIGHTY dumb stuff LOL.
Arab Proverb: "Rich is the man who learns from other peoples' mistakes." I prefer to enrich the kids rather than have them go broke paying tuition to The School Of Hard Knocks. Still, they're gonna do what they're gonna do.
My greater concern is that while I may have reached in and tickled the dragon's tongue, I kept all my fingers... That was surely because I felt the snap of the dragon's jaws and didn't do that again. Thing 1 has a way of avoiding the dragon altogether (he's a puss), and Thing 2 keeps tickling the dragon's tongue, losing a little bit every time, and thinking she can keep doing it till she gets better (though eventually, she will have nothing left with which to tickle the dragon's tongue). The subject of Icarus came up, and DW sort scolded me for bringing it up because she thinks that I'm being overly didactic.
Back from Thanksgiving!
SKids got dropped off by SuperDad Sunday afternoon at about 1:30PM instead of Monday after school. His new wife's dysfunction is pretty bad. Her inability to be an adult (or mature person at all) and build anything with these kids is causing SuperDad to let these kids opt out and come to our place early or leave for his later, and DW just allows it. And while it's not the end of the world, I'm thinking, JEEEEZZZZZ...
It's like having money on the bar, and the bartender sees it and snaps it up without question as if it's a tab, though it was change from your previous purchase. After a while, you realize that, instead of leaving the change on the bar and getting mad because your bartender keeps taking it, you start put it in your pocket. DW gets wrapped up in Her Little Darlings' Feelings and "of COURSE they're ALWAYS welcome" words (though she mumbles to me "He dropped them off EARLY. Sheesh..."). I'm tempted to start to tell her that I see she likes to cater to SuperDad like that, and ask her why she mumbles these things to me when she clearly really likes it when her kids show that they'd rather be with her than her ex. For Pete's sake, MOST KIDS DO. It's not a mystery, and it doesn't mean that mom's always the better parent. All these things are independent of each other.
Annnnywayyyy....
During the Thaksgiving holiday weekend, we hosted dinner for my folks (SKids at their dad's place) and then Fri, Sat, and Sun, DW's sister and fam came to sleep over Fri and Sat nite. I worked myself hard on chores, hurt my knee (old injuries on old people LOL). I hardly had a moment of quiet from Wednesday afternoon till Sunday morning when everyone left, then DW springs the "Oh, kids are coming today, about 3 or 4PM, instead of Monday" comment.
Then suddenly, BAM, there they were, even earlier. I wasn't thrilled, would have LOVED to have a quiet few hours to relax with my bad knee. Nope. And DW started chiding me for seeming to have an attitude... "Well, hon, my knee hurts pretty bad!" Jeez, after filling in for her with her surgeries and recoveries, I have ONE DAY that has me down and it just happens to be when her kids are there, early, and - well, yay.... Definitely the biggest problem was my knee, but after about 96 hours of doing stuff for other folks, I would have liked to have had some rest before I had to restart my work week.
Thing 1 is still a goon. Thing 2 is seeming to be better, though I know she wants to angle her way toward getting sleepovers and all the good things restored... and I'm sticking to my guns - NO. DW's sister was there, and DW was discussing with her, and I tried to stay quiet, but ultimately, DW said, "I say no more sleepovers till the end of the year, but Java thinks longer..." and I said, "Yyyyyyup. It's almost December. Thing 2's escapades got her in a little hot water a few months ago, and she lost her iPad. Then her escapades on Halloween got her into trouble again, and we said NO MORE SLEEPOVERS TILL I SAY IT'S OK. And just 2 weeks ago, she got in trouble AGAIN, and she had an unapproved electronic device. If ANYTHING, THAT little yuk-yuk should have ADDED to her sentence, right?" I looked at them both, and DW's sister looked down at her feet lik,e she agreed but didn't really want to dogpile on her sister, and DW said, "Yes, I just don't think it needs to be for so long." Heh, what, two months of no sleepovers is overly harsh??? I disagree.
I'm not so hard-core, but this is just plain dumb. I was thinking the rest of the school year, or at least till Spring Break if we see a true improvement (I don't mean superficial) as of Halloween, and the latest issue, just 2 weeks later, which was WAY more serious IMHO, should have SEALED IT.
If DW wasn't so busy trying to be these kids' FRIEND... Wasn't trying so hard to be these kids' friends' friend... we'd be a lot better off. I'm BEYOND THRILLED that my own kids do NOT live with us and aren't having to deal with this tangled deal.