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Was Discussing the Difference Between a Socialpath and a Narcisisst w Counselor Today (Re T) and

shes driving me crazy in my retirement's picture

because I felt that T was more than just a narcisisst because I found her scarey at times.  The counselor said this: sociopaths doesn't care if they are benefitting anyone. Cold, calculating, and manipulative, they do not think or care about others at all unless they can benefit from them!

I gasped when she said that because how many times have I said that about T.  And how many times has she proved it in the past when the only time she bothers with any one, including her Father, is when she is looking for something.

Yes, I know I am wasting time thinking about her, but this has always been very disturbing to me....why the hair on the back of my neck rises when she is around, use to call H at our then home, etc.

My BFF also said this about her, but having a second opinion, so to speak, really clinched it for me.  I really feel that I dodged a bullet by moving far, far away from her and her brood.

This was a personal session for me alone, and I asked her why she felt H was kind of hanging on to her, refusing to let go.  I did put her on the spot but when I told her that I was starting to get tired of the back and forth with him, she understood.  She said he feels guilty about her, blames the divorce for how she turned out and keeps hoping.  Also, T turns on the charm, the tears and the victimization on him which pushes these buttons and she knows it.

She did tell me to hang in there, progress is bieng made by him.

.

shes driving me crazy in my retirement's picture

I want to say that the way she explained this was to show that it ws more than just narcisissm, but done in a way that is not only self-serving but malicious.   It is nice to have a second confirmation that I wasn't being silly etc. as H use to tell me.

sandye21's picture

I agree with Mapitout.  You are working this out and it takes time - especially for what you went through.  You can't endure that kind of crazy and expect to just walk away from it.  Sometimes when we are around crazy people too much we ask ourselves if it isn't us.  The validation you have received from your Counselor and friend helps tremendously.  No, it's NOT you.  Every time you write you seem stronger.  Eventually you WILL see T in your rear view mirror. 

shes driving me crazy in my retirement's picture

I started crying when I read your response Sandye, because you and the others understand.  Sometimes I get angry with myself over this carp.  T scares me and always will.  I am angry that I allowed myself to be sucked into her muck by my H who evidently knows that she is "different".  PTSD is what I suffer from this.  I have been attacked both physically, emotionally and mental by the cretin on a constant basis for some 8 years.

In all actuality, I don't know if I can ever feel safe as long as she is any where around H unless he gets a heck of a lot stronger about her.

elkclan's picture

I dont know how old T is, but my mom is a narc and honestly she really doesnt care about anyone else. It's all about them. If they are high functioning they know they need to show reciprocity, so my mom does. She is very generous with friends, but she steals money from her kids. Narcs can be incredibly damaging and hurtful. It almost doesnt matter what the diagnosis is, if its your therapy, then it's about how relationships are affecting you. People who haven't really lived with a narc though don't know how damaging they can be, so tell people she's sociopathic if you want to, I guess. I dont know any of you, so couldn't begin to say if she is or she isn't - but I can say that damage from narcs is real and substantial. And they really don't care about anyone else except for what they can provide them (and it doesnt have to be money, could be emotional support or whatever).

shes driving me crazy in my retirement's picture

elkclan - What my T is is far beyond narcisissism.  She is a sociopath.  She feels nothing when others are hurt either by her or by someone else.  This is EVIL!  I have no doubt that if she could find a way to put dear Ole Dad in a home, forget about him and just collect whatever she THINKS she has a right to, she would do it.  Heaven forbid she ever be in charge of making the decisions on his life.  It means very little to her except an inconvenience unless she needs or wants something.

I am old and I have never, ever met anyone that scares me like she does.  My feeling is that she would push someone over a clift and then go back and cry to everyone about how bad she feels, and she wishes she could have stopped the person from falling...boo hoo hoo.

Let me explain that better.  T has no problem asking her 80 old father to climb up a ladder and put new windows in for her, for FREE, so she can save a buck!  This in 94 degree heat and humidity!  The heck with any danger to him due to his age etc.  If he gets hurt, well, not her fault, accidents happen.  Old Dad has trouble walking but what the heck if she can get the work done for free....after all....he has to die sometime!  That kind of thinking goes farther than just narcisissim according to counselor.

And yes, she actually said something to that effect when I told her that would be dangerous for her Dad.  What shocked the h*ll out of me.  H heard it to (must have really warmed the cockles of his heart...not).  Fortnately he said NO and, since she didn't get what she wanted she had nothing to do with him for months.  How dare he deny her!

She talks about things with people, where they have been hurt or abused like it is absolutely nothing UNLESS it concerns her or her babies (those misfits.

People avoid her like the plague because I imagine they get the same vibes from her.  Most narcisissts can fool people, at least for a time, but with T people tend to shy away from her once they spend any time around her.. 

 

shes driving me crazy in my retirement's picture

I want to expand on this part the counselor said:  The counselor said this: sociopaths doesn't care if they are benefitting anyone. 

By that she meant that they, sociopaths, don't even care if they, themselves  benefit.  They do it for the "fun"of it, because they can.

THAT is the scarey part, and something I have long felt in being scared when I was around her.  When she targets in she will say and do anything to get her desired result.

shes driving me crazy in my retirement's picture

Great article Sandye.  I like the way you describe it as a nar on steroids.  Ain't that the truth.

 Makes me remember when some time back, T told H that Drunkie had Antisocial Personality Disorder (APD).  She claimed that Drunkie's counselor had told her that!  And went on to tell H all the "symptoms". 

Now, you and I know that NO legitimate counselor has the right or will tell any one else about a client or diagnosis.  H evidently asked her how she got this because medical records are confidential.  Guess Drunkie signed off as someone who could be given info, but that, to me, seemed strange as no legitimate counselor is going to take a call from Mom asking what her ADULT son's problem is and give such a diagnosis.

This was one of those ole poor me, look what I have to deal with sessions we use to get from T.

Little Devil that I can be, I brought this instance up in one of our joint sessions and the counselor said it would be very strange if T was given all the information like that.  Generally those consent forms are for when someone is incompacitated or something and the info has to be given to another person.  That it would have been unethical for any licenced professional to do so.

I wanted H to know just how much T lies about things and the stories she makes up for sympathy, attention AND, most importantly, manipulation.

Rags's picture

Just take care of yourself. I truly hope that DH can get to where he completely writes her off and purges her from your life. No more mention of her and zero interface in any form.

Your progress is inspirational. That you have had to deal with all of this at all just makes me angry.

If DH and his X had kept their collective boot up Twit's ass and tolerated nothing but the actions of a reasonable human being from her none of this would have happened. It certainly did not have to happen.  They created this and DH'ts continued insistence on having anything at all to do with her is a legacy that makes no sense to me.

Take care of you.

shes driving me crazy in my retirement's picture

Hi Rags - As I seem to be coming along in dealing with this I agree with what you said.  Even as recent as last summer, with the wedding fiasco and all that carp, he was always cutting her some slack.  He would get tough and then back down.  He created her...made her the monster she is by always giving in and believing the carp she spewed. 

Like you said, if they had kept their boot up her butt, at least she might have learned that being cruel gets her nowhere.  BUT, and here is the big BUT, being what she is I definately think that nothing any one did would have steered her off her course.  She is not normal in her thinking, especially about others.

Just think about this...her hubby makes in the 6 figures and she would love nothing more than to be a grande dame in the town, or county but that, because of her persona eludes her and she is angry.  How dare people not bow to her like she feels they should.

Most the upper echelon people inthat historic town have college degrees.  She got so pathetic on this that she put down that she attended a Jr. college.  The truth is that she took one general class and no more.  She has no interest in what goes on in the world today other than gripe to H about who is trying to cheat her, wrong her, etc.

This one disturbed me.  Whenever she would hire to have something done, as she did when H wouldn't put those windows in for her, she gets people from WAY far out of the area.  Because all the locals are just jerks with a ladder is how she put it.  CHEAP!  Then claims the job wasn't done right and wants $$$ of the price!  It is a scam with her and she is the scammer!  To top it off she brags about how she got the job done cheaper than she was quoted.  Of course then there was the house painter that she tried that with and he took her to court and got his money from her.  You see, she claimed the siding was not propertly painted etc. and the contracter offered to make good any of her concerns but she didn't want that.  She wanted bucks off.  Me thinks that is the reason she doesn't use local people because word got around or would get around.

As I have written, it has been an education, one I certainly didn't need or want.

Rags's picture

Yes, it has been an education that you did not want or need. But.. you learned.  Sadly DH only seems ot be learning now after you applied the pressure of clarity.

Hopefully he will embrace this education and be the man that you should have as your DH.

Take care of you.

 

shes driving me crazy in my retirement's picture

Yes Rags - My, OUR, lives could have been so much more peaceful if I had a real heads up about T.  Would never have moved anywhere near her.

One more think I have to deal with is to forgive H for not being upfront about what a clear and present danger she is.  What he did to me regarding her was WRONG and sometimes I am just soooo angry about it that I scream and curse him along with T.

He would love to move back in with me but not until I know that I am not going to go through any more Crazy Town with T and that I won't hae to deal with her ever.

You know, we had that small separation over this when I threw him out and he had to live with T for awhile....and he did have a hard time doing that.  I don't know if I ever told how he said she would keep changing things on him, what he could and could not do, what door to use, and all kinds of controling things.  Very controlling.  She would get upset with him if he cleaned the kitchen up and put a full dishwasher load on!  Bizzaro!  Heck, in my world, the dishwasher is full I don't care who turns it on, no big deal.

Can you just imagine what lie would be if he had to live there, full time, in his later years?  Well, we are in our late years now, but you know what I mean.  Of course, it wouldn't take her long to throw her old man into any nursing home that was cheap and not bother with him 'cause she is too busy.  He needs to get it into his head that there is no compassion with that cretin only things that she wants, money, objects, etc.

I hae had lots of insight into this with T because when her husband's father was getting rid of things, simplifying his house as he aged, he was going around taking things....I mean a LOT of things.  When her one Sister-in-Law told her that maybe she should give her FIL something because she was taking so much (cleaning out the garage sale before anyone else got there), T thought that was mean of her.  Bragged about how she filled up her van to the HILT.  Then she wondered why the FIL didn't give her any of the MIL's jewelry and gave it to HIS daughters.  How terrible that was because she always thought of him as a Father.  Yeah, right.  You can see the thread here....what is in it for me(being T), what can I get, what can I get without paying for anything, etc.

Rags's picture

I truly hope that the current challenges are the death knell of T having access to her dad and to polluting your life.