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Think I did the right thing

Movingonisbest's picture

Hello all. New to the boards. Met a rather nice man (or so I thought) I was in a relationship with for about a year or so. We have our ups and downs but relationship has generally been good. He has several adult kids and I have two. My adult kids are not a problem. Only one of his kids is a huge problem, a daughter. Very selfish and self-entitled. Almost 24 years old and refuses to support herself. Every time her father and I go on vacation together she expects a significant amount of money before we leave and when we come back. It seems as though she is competing with me. I'm rather well off financially, and I earn significantly more than her father. He says he loves me, wants to marry me, and have a future with me. My adult kifs are independent and his other adult lids are somewhat independent. However this particular daughter relies on him for pretty much everything (car note, car insurance, food, cell phone, and college as she recently decided she wants to pursue a degree). It almost seems like she only returned to college so she doesn't have to support herself. She never shows her grades, what classes she takes or anything. When he asked about this stuff she said it was private. He gets stressed when he talks to her but I thought it was because she is a huge financial burden. Recently I found out she is verbally abusive to him and the straw the broke the camels back was when she disrespected him and our relationship and he offered to take her on vacation in an effort to stop the verbal abuse. I  broke up with him partly over it. If you have several adult kids and you want to and can help them I think you should try to help them equally. Unfortunately this isn't the case. In her mind every penny her father has belongs to her. No matter what he gives her it is never enough. Her father is aging and having medical issues yet all she does is keep demanding money despite not visiting him in years. Don't know how someone can disrespect their father the way she does, never visit him, yet require him to take care of her and feel no remorse. Really don't see a future with him anymore so I ended the relationship but he is trying to win me back.. Any input is appreciated.

sandye21's picture

This is a DH (your boyfriend) problem.  HE is allowing her to live off of him.  HE gives her the money she demands.  HE offered to take her on a vacation to placate her and avoid her anger at him.  Good thing you ended the relationship with him.  While he is trying to win you back ask him if he is willing to allow his daughter to move out and take responsibility for herself.  It gives him power to have control over her life.  I can guarantee he will hem and haw but he will not be willing to let her go out and be a functioning adult.  There are plenty of fish in the sea. 

Movingonisbest's picture

Sandye21. I appreciate your response. Hopefully I can clarify this. She doesn't  live with him. She lives in another state. During the school year she is supposedly in the dorm and during summer and breaks she is home with her mom. As I mentioned, she has not visited him in years. He really has no clue of what she is doing. He recently discovered she isn't even the year in college she claimed to be. At one point he professed his daughter doesn't lie but in fact she lies alot and it's obvious she is using him. It's also seems like she was trying to destroy our relationship. Just can't understand why he allows hee to behave like this. I see him as being weak. Im frustrated that he claims to love me yet would bring this chaos into my life. I went several weeks without having contact with him then talked to him. He is still trying to win me back but it's even more obvious that he hasn't figured out a solution for the issues with his adult daughter. He even had the nerves to try to say his daughter wasn't disrespecting him or our relationship the day I ended the relationship but was actually thanking him for all that he does, namely the week before.. Outright lie. fact she was demanding more money. I told him I wasn't going to allow him to lie to me about her inappropriate behavior and I ended the call. He continues reaching out to me and I don't respond. Just don't understand this situation at all.

sandye21's picture

"He even had the nerves to try to say his daughter wasn't disrespecting him or our relationship the day I ended the relationship but was actually thanking him for all that he does. Outright lie."  This is a very BIG red flag.  It won't change.  Good you called him on it.

"He continues reaching out to me and I don't respond.   Just don't understand this situation at all."  One of the other posters suggested he was grooming you for future financial comfort for him and his daughter.  I agree.  It may seem a bit flattering that he is reaching out so much  but it is really something to watch out for.

When DH and I started dating he was the sweetest man I had ever met.  He had just graduated from chef school.  He told me all sorts of 'un-truths' that he made more money than he did and he had a very good earning potential.  This could have been true if he had the drive to succeed but he was too weak to fight the competition. Years later I found out the truth.  I should have ended it then but was too afraid of another failed marriage.  I was stupid.

I rarely saw his daughter before we got married.  She was OK with me until afterwards.  THEN the 'fun' began.  SD began a hate campaign.  DH became distant.  I supported DH for the first few years of our marriage so he could put SD through college.  When I finally told him he had to pay 1/2 of the living expenses he became violently angry.  I told him it was that or he would have to leave.  He agreed to pay - it was cheaper than living on his own.  There was a time when I wanted to quit work but DH adamantly refused to support me - even temporarily.

Over 8 years ago SD had a meltdown.  DH ran out the door instead of standing up to his daughter.  I gave him a choice of leaving or working on the marriage.  He chose the marriage.  We have been married for over 28 years and to this day I wonder if financial security was a factor in DH asking me to marry him.  At this point in time DH doesn't have a nest egg because he gave money to SD and squandered money that he inherited.  If an emergency came up right now he would have a hard time finding funds to take care of it.  It is only a matter of time before I ask him to leave.

You are very smart to see the problems now before you ever marry this man.  Please cut any ties to him, tell him to quit calling, and let him drift off into the sunset with his mini-wife.

 

 

Movingonisbest's picture

Sandye21, I didn't know that was a redflag. Just knew I wasn't going to allow him to lie to me. Then when I called him out on it and he said she was just being a comedian, I knew he had to have some issues. Maybe his plan for me was financially based to help support him and his daughter.  However, that was never going to happen. I don't feel flattered by him continuing to contact me. I just don't understand it. Having a lazy adult disrespectful child is a deal-breaker for me. He did ask on different occasions about us living together first but I wasn't going to live with him so he could take his extra money from me helping with bills and send it out of state to her. If I move with someone or marry someone it is to better our lives not someone else's.  You must be very strong to have tolerated that for 28 years. I couldn't have done it. Im not sure if other father's realize it, but I am rather sure that deep down he knows she doesn't love him. A daughter who loves her father is going to want to see him, spend time with him, and check on him knowing he is aging and having health problems. She does none of the above.  Can't quite fathom  how you can go several years without seeing your father yet want him to be your atm machine, verbally abuse him, try to control his life, and destroy his happiness and be ok with that. I just wish he would not have brought me into this.

Rags's picture

Good move ending this. It is the never ending nightmare when a failed parent continues to enable their toxic adult spawn.

At some point repeatedly bailing out a serial failure of an adult offspring is not helping, it is enabling and facilitating.

The best thing that a parent can do in these situations is to let the kid fail, don't bail them out, and let them learn from the full consequences of their failures.

 

Movingonisbest's picture

Appreciate your response Rags. He is definitely an enabler. Not sure why he thought I would tolerate this. Her personality is horrific. Unfortunately no amount of money is going to fix that.

Kes's picture

I think most people here would concur that this is a boyfriend problem - he is enabling his adult daughter and colluding with her to continue life as a gigantic cuckoo, beak ever open. And would also concur that you did the right thing in ending the relationship.  Love doesn't negate the inability of most of us to stand by and watch behaviour going on that we can't stomach.  I'm afraid if there's one thing step life has taught most of us is that love most emphatically doesn't conquer all.   If he just can't see that he's not helping his daughter at all, to become a worthwhile adult, then you can tell him till you're blue in the face and he won't hear it.   The problem most likely lies back in his own childhood and he has set up this unhealthy relationship with his daughter that feeds off and into some deep dysfunction of his. 

Movingonisbest's picture

Kes I appreciate your response also. He claims he listens to me because he loves me but I feel this should have never been a problem to begin with. When I ended things I let him know under no circumstances was I tolerating her level of disrespect. An issue I am having is why doesn't he stop trying to win me back if he knows he has no intention of fixing the issues with her.

SteppedOut's picture

Because he thinks you should accept it, after all, he does. Also, he is not listening to you... he just wants you. 

Lack of respect. 

Movingonisbest's picture

SteppedOut, thanks for your input. I had some rather harsh words for him the day I broke up with him. He must have heard something I said that day as at one point he looked like he was about to cry. Either that or he may have felt he would never see me or hear from me again (not sure  though if he ever thought I would ever really leave him). 

As far as talking to him after not do so for several weeks, you are absolutely correct that he wasnt listening to me. He kept expressing his undying love. However when I told him I didn't feel the same anymore and told him why it was like he didn't hear me. Like there was some sort of mental block. Once he outright lied about her inappropriate behavior and i called him out on it and he said she was just being a comedian I knew he had some serious issues. I disconnected the call from him. Don't respond at all to him but in some messages its as if he doesn't understand we are not together anymore.

DHsfamilyfromhell's picture

Please do not marry this man whilst his daughter can manipulate him like that. You can still have a wonderful relationship and not be married. If you get married her behaviour may get worse and your partner may not address it and you may end up miserable 

Movingonisbest's picture

Dhsfamilyfromhell, I appreciate your response as well. He tells me I am the only lady who has ever loved him for him. He is trying to figure out a way to remain in my life, but as long as his daughter is allowed to be disrespectful he will never see me again. Could you really imagine having a good weekend with your boyfriend ruined by his adult daughter calling being disrespectful and throwing tantrums because her father wasn't available to talk to her about her demands for more money. She hasn't seen her father in years but wants to control his life from a whole different state. Absurd to say the least.

Rags's picture

"Loved him for him." What, exactly, is there to love?

Take care of you. Stay gone. Rescue projects rarely turn out well for the rescuer.

tog redux's picture

You are right - he is weak. He fears losing his daughter so much that he will give her anything she wants (even though he's lost her anyway, since she doesn't speak to him or see him except to demand money).

Good move in breaking it off. If he wants you back he can develop a spine and stop enabling his lazy adult daughter. Otherwise, he's liable to still be doing it when she's 50.

Movingonisbest's picture

Tog redux, does it really all just boil down to weakness? Why would he think I or any other woman should accept this? Why not just stay single until he is capable of being a man.

tog redux's picture

It’s fear, and his inability to face it. He probably thinks it shouldn’t bother you if it’s his money. 

Movingonisbest's picture

Tog Redux. Thing is there have been times when he has tried controlling how I spend my money even before I found out about the issues with his daughter. Never really understood that as I work hard for what I have, have excellent credit, a good savings, etc. He gets attitudes when others ask him for money but the attitudes are generally directed at me. As a man he should just be able to tell people including his daughter no. At one point she was hounding him so much he said he was having trouble breathing. Smh

Also he has been the one talking about marriage. I would never marry someone with that kind of baggage. My adult kids are independent and his other kids are not much of a problem. Im not going to financially support her. She is no better than my kids or his other ones.

Kes's picture

He controls (or tries to) the way you choose to spend your hard earned cash????  And has an attitude towards you about things not to do with you?   More and more reasons not to get back with this man. 

Movingonisbest's picture

Kes yes he did do that in the past. Then he stopped for a while but a few weeks before I broke up with him he did it again. But I corrected him about it. The part about him getting attitudes with me after others ask him fo money, I just figured it was his frustration at himself for not wanting to give or loan people money but not knowing how to say no. It would put him in a bad mood for a bit. I few times I overlooked it but then I let him know I wasn't tolerating it.

grace8205's picture

but ending it now. I doubt he will ever be able to stand up to her or set any kind of boundaries. I wish I would of had a clearer picture of that when I was dating my DH. 

He never sees her, yet still hands over money? 

My exh and I pay for our son’s university and when he was starting I wanted him to sign a form giving me access to information such as courses, grades and so on. My exh tried to argue with me that our son is an adult and it’s not my business. I said if he is an adult and it’s not my business then he can pay for his own school. Needless to say I have total access to my son’s school account. I don’t understand some parents. 

If  exBF decides to change the way he handles his daughter it will be a long road, he will back slide and there is no guarantee that he will one out the other side. 

Movingonisbest's picture

Grace8205, setting boundaries is essential in any healthy relationship. As far as I am concerned those boundaries should have been set up when he decided he wanted to be in a relationship. What did he really think the outcome was going to be?  He really thinks the woman he claims to love should just settle for whatever his daughter dishes out? And yes that is right she hasnt visited him in several years but he still hands over money. His birthday or father's day rolls around and she does nothing for him. 

As far as the college thing, I agree with you 100%. If parents are helping they have a right to grades, courses taken, etc. She told him that was her privacy and just accepts it. 

Finding out she verbally abuses him was horrible. So when he offered to take her on vacation to stop the verbal abuse, that's when I realized how dysfunctional their relationship really is. Again I have no clue why he would bring this type of chaos into my life

SacrificialLamb's picture

Ditto to what everyone else is saying. My OSD is 44 and still believes daddy owes her, because her father was too weak to stand up to her and she is used to getting her way.   She got worse after we married, having an "emergency" just about every time we were about to go on vacation.  When DH finally stood up to her, she cut him off. We are finally at peace with the situation, but it's been a hard road. You did the right thing. Find someone not so enmeshed with his daughter.

Movingonisbest's picture

SacraficialLamb, it's unfortunate you had to go through that. What made your husband finally stand up to her? How long ago was that? What's the issue with these adult daughters who refuse to grow up and be respectable women?

Harry's picture

His DD is getting older and need you to help buying her a new car. And the wedding.  When she gets married.  She should get a wedding fit for a Queen.  I am sure he does not have that type of money.  So he needs your help.  Beside it’s cold in bed alone 

Movingonisbest's picture

Harry then he is delusional and so out of luck. I told him that his daughter is worse than all the problems the other adult kids have combined. I'm not doing anything to help her financially. Not ever.  

hereiam's picture

You absolutely did the right thing. He spends all of his money on his daughter, figuring that YOU will take care of him, financially, when he can't. And physically, also, as he knows damn well hid kids aren't going to.

Of course, he wants to marry you!

Movingonisbest's picture

Hereiam, that's a perspective I had not considered in terms of finances.. At his age it makes no sense to be giving his money away like that. Specially when he needs things himself.  I'm rather sure they are not going to take care of him financially or physically. Perhaps he has been thinking about that along with missing my financial input in the relationship. Plus his daughter is probably still hounding him for money and he has no outlet. He has no one to work with him financially like I was. Sometimes you never know what a person's motives are. He messed up his good thing when he decided he didn't have to stand up and be a man and when he took for granted I would always be there for him.

CANYOUHELP's picture

This dysfunction, as you are aware, goes far beyond money.  Even when money is not the issue, control over the marriage for this type of adult woman is--if daddeee is a wimpy doormat, like most here. Yes, get out while you can. It is one issue after another.  You can do much better and thank him for not hiding his sickness like many of these husbands arfully did, only to sucker us in until we are vested. These men do not change.

Movingonisbest's picture

Canyouhelp, this adult daughters issue seems to br all about money. She doesn't see to care about anything else and hasn't visited him in several years.But yes from reading these boards I see there are other issues. It's unfortunate alot you stepmoms have had ro go through this.

CANYOUHELP's picture

Hi Moving,

Money is of primary concern; many see us as taking away what they believe to be entitled; even if WE are the primary financial resource (which is crazy).  But, in the meantime, (even before any serious money concerns),it appears they have to keep proving to us how completely unimportant  and dispensible--we are ---to daddeeee, by elevating self and excluding us every way they can possibly think to do. And. if you are dealing with this dynamic, they do not stop; they get worse if anythiing.

It is most unfortunate, for everybody involved. You will protect yourself in order to grow from this experience.

 

Movingonisbest's picture

CanYouHelp, so do you think that tantrum she had was partially about money but also more about the fact he was spending time with me that he wasn't allowing anyone to interrupt, not even her?  So she thinks she is so important she can go years without seeing her father and still control things? She may be able to control him but she will never control me. She doesn't care that he is going to be old and alone? I think the older people get the less tolerant they are of this type of behavior.

CANYOUHELP's picture

I think it is about both; they want to be number one is all things and in all ways.  With us around, it is a reminder they may be losing that daddeee given edge-- which they have likely been treated as entitled--- long before we came around.

Money is just another reason to compete; but seriously, it is about everything (a date, an event location, the weather, a time, nothing is off limits... et. al.), if you are part of this dysfunction.  If you can avoid it, do so; time does not improve a blind daddeeee.

Movingonisbest's picture

CanYouHelp, so once these fathers decide to enter a serious committed relationship they don't ever sit these adult daughters down to let them know changes will be made?  Do they really believe a good woman who values herself is going to tolerate this? You read my posts so you know after several weeks of not talking to my ex he tried to lie about what happened. When I broke up with him I let him know his daughter doesn't know her place and that no one is competing with me for a place in my man's life. I'd gladly walk away which is what I did. I haven't contacted or seen him since. He is the one trying to invite me on dates and pleading with me to allow him to be in my life in some capacity etc. So basically he wants the benefit of being number 1 person in my life while not reciprocating that. Smh

sandye21's picture

"--- so once these fathers decide to enter a serious committed relationship they don't ever sit these adult daughters down to let them know changes will be made?"  The answer is "No."  I was going to tell my 'story' (again) to you but many of us are on this site because we are still trying to make a 'go' of marriages to men who are too afraid to sit their daughters down, inform them that their marriage is top priority and insist on respect for their wife.  In fact, many of us find that our DHs won't support (financially or emotionally) in other situations where they should be there for us.. 

You actually came up with the answer, "So basically he wants the benefit of being number 1 person in my life while not reciprocating that."  It is because HE is the number one person in HIS life.  His comforts come first.  He gets some kind of reward for bailing SD out financially like a white knight in shining armor.  She may treat him like dog doo but for some reason (as unreasonable as it sounds) when he saves her it appeals to him.  

Many of us can look back and see how we have supplied ways for DHs to live a more comfortable life both socially and financially.  We have also found that our DH's are very reluctant to reciprocate when the need arises.  Again - they are number one in their lives and do not want their comfort to be threatened.

You are a very smart and wise woman.  You are also lucky that you are not in an emotional state to be taken advantage of like I was.  One more reason to dump the ex-boyfriend:  He misjudged you.

Movingonisbest's picture

Samdye21, starting to understand things better now. Didn't realize this was more about his comfort level and not his daughters. Pure selfishness. I was just coming out of a rough time in my life though too. Do you think these fathers prey on women they think they can take advantage of? Wonder if he thought I was an easy target. I told him from the start what my deal-breakers in a relationship are. This ia definitely one of them. For the life of me I couldn't figure out why he was trying to force me to have a motherly type relationship with this problem daughter but he didn't do that with the others. I kept reminding him she has her own mom. Maybe that pressure really was because he thought that would make me start helping financially support her. NEVER going to happen. I even told him if she couldn't make ends meet she could work two jobs in the summer or she could have went to community college to cut costs. I have never pressured him to do anything for my adult kids. So couldn't understand why he started expecting more from me. He told some of his adult kids I was their stepmother after us only dating for a few months. Some people close to me thought that was a red flag. I stood firm on what I was not going to do and taking care of able-bodied adult kids was one of them. I still don't know what most of the red flags are. Do you?

sandye21's picture

Yes, I really think some men look for insecure women they can take advantage of - especially if they are, or on the way to being short on money.  A big red flag:  When they are courting you they will be Mr. Wonderful, taking you out to dinner, pouring on the charm, being almost TOO nice.  Once you are married to them, they change like someone turned off a switch.  If you are insecure like I was you are afraid of another failure so you hope everything will get better.  Pretty unrealistic.

A big red flag was when he lied to you.  You were smart enough to catch it.  Another red flag is when they try to give you the impression you are number one in their lives and they can't live without you - but they can't seem to find the courage to tell the skids you are number one.  Another one is allowing the skids to disrespect you, making excuses or gaslighting (trying to make you believe you are imagining things).  Trying to make things 'normal'  that aren't.  Later on, after you marry one of these men, you find they don't put themselves out for you financially or emotionally.  They don't totally give themselves.  Another red flag:  You are not convinced they will be there when you need them.  I had to drive myself to treat a broken leg - DH insisted it was just a sprain.

At first you are stunned. Then, if you are insecure, you think this is temporary, if you show him love, surely someday he will see the light.  If you are too stubborn to admit defeat like me you hang on years.  By that time he will have given his money to SD.  You have a nest egg, he doesn't, but you might be financially bound to give him what you have worked hard for.  This is where I am at.  DH is just about broke but doesn't want to get a part time job.  I have an appointment with a lawyer tomorrow.

That is why I come here every day.  If I can help one woman to avoid this situation it will be worth it.  Your ex-boyfriend keeps calling because he has a lot to lose.  Like I wrote, I really think he misjudged you. Just want to ask if you had deep conversations with your ex-boyfriend?  Did he avoid or try to refocus discussions about issues which were important to you?  Those are red flags too.

By the way, if SD got a job she wouldn't need DH so much so even though it appears she has control with her demands and tantrums, he wants to make sure she is dependent on him.  Kind of sick.

Movingonisbest's picture

Sandye21 you listed a bunch of red flags, alot of them I can identify with.  You said "A big red flag was when he lied to you.  You were smart enough to catch it." That was an easy catch. Did he really think I didn't remember what happened? Smh. Do you think he convinced himself that she was really saying thank you? I mean if he can't be honest about the type of person she is, its unrealistic he will ever fix the problems. I can already see what she is, and it's not good. He chose to be weak and lost his relationship because of it. If he was really using me, its for the best that the relationship ended anyways. He doesn't deserve a woman that puts him first when he can't reciprocate it. I'm not allowing him to pretend to value me after the fact.

sandye21's picture

" I mean if he can't be honest about the type of person she is, its unrealistic he will ever fix the problems."  If you believe his lies he won't have to fix anything.

CANYOUHELP's picture

The answer is NO....they are scared of their own adult kids and they will never correct them, if in this dysfunction.  You did the right thing and you were so lucky to find out before the relationship progressed. Congrats!

Movingonisbest's picture

So do you think he knows the reason I left him? He is still contacting me. Any clue how long this will go on?

Movingonisbest's picture

Also you don't think this makes these men feel less of a man when their adult daughters are trying to control their relationships and compete with a woman they claim they love? I never thought I would find myself in a situation like this.

MissTexas's picture

work in their favor, or prove effective. DH's are brainwashed by these manipulative, abusive and selfish girls. They don't want DH, but they don't want anyone else to have DH. It truly is such a sick mess.

When/if DH puts his foot down, these emotionally stunted, needy girls all do the same thing: Punish daddy. They do this by screening their calls and refusing to pick them up when it's DH. Not visiting, not sending gifts or cards on DH's bday or at Christmas or Father's Day. If they have kids, they keep them away from DH. Figuratively speaking, they are "stamping their feet" crying "NOTICE ME! ME! ME! DAAADEEEE!!! WHY WON'T YOU NOTICE ME, YOUR FAITHFUL MINI-WIFE?"

Also, it's very common for many DH's to talk about you behind your back with SD. Criticize and stand in solidarity with SD, so they can keep themselves comfortable. They never think you're going to find out about their secret love affair. I did, and boy was SD upset! Their little game was overwith. SD had the nerve to jump all over me because I had "the nerve" to check our joint phone account. When I did I saw that she was calling him daily (which is what led to his legal decisions, coersion...he told me this. She would NOT LET UP, which is also elderly abuse and exploitation) then she'd call the attorney or have him call the attorney she sent him to. I realize DH is his own person, not a skin tag of SD's, however she was hammering him day in and day out for over a month. To a person who tries to please everyone, this is very distressing, so he did what he felt he needed to do, which was please SD. In return he almost destroyed our lives, and ruined my inner "kindness compass." When all of this happened, I didn't even resemble the person I once was. I became angry, resentful and bitter. I stopped doing anything and everything for DH I used to do (which is A LOT, his kids never come here and help with thier property he gave them....we do ALL OF IT, and more.)

Movingonisbest (your ID says it all, you just needed affirmation) I'm glad you've removed your rose colored glasses and that you read the writing that was written on the wall. Remember, HE NEEDS YOU. You needing him, um, NOT SO MUCH.

Movingonisbest's picture

MissTexas, really appreciate your input. I haven't been in this situation long but already decided I wasn't tolerating it. You said "manipulative, abusive and selfish girls. They don't want DH, but they don't want anyone else to have DH. It truly is such a sick mess." That really seems to be the case. This daughter hasn't been to visit him in several years so I couldn't really understand why she would start competing with me. She does nothing with him or for him (like you were saying not even for Father's day, his birthday, or anything). He let's her control him but I would never allow a nobody like her to control any aspect of my life and I told him that. He has seemed more distressed up to the point I broke up with him. Like I said I thought it was because she was burdening him financially but I didn't know she was verbally abusive to him.  It really is a sick situation. She is his problem not mine. Not sticking around for that crap. He really thought telling lies about what happened was going to fix things. It just made me look at him as being weak and pathetic. Do you think these fathers know these type of daughters don't love them?  It's kind of like how can they not? When he leaves messages about going out on dates, I just think to myself why in the world would I want to go on a date with him. Since his daughter wants to be #1 in his life she should be willing to travel to the state he lives in and spend time with him. The relationship he and I had is over. Him begging to be in my life pretending to be the  man he knows he is not is ridiculous. If he wants to grow older and be alone so be it. I have no plans of being with him again.

Movingonisbest's picture

I know a lot you love your husbands but was wondering if you mostly try to keep the peace or speak your mind. I gave my now ex boyfriend a harsh reality check about his adult daughter. Things others probably thought but never said to him.  If the man is the head and he can't protect his partner what makes him feel he deserves to have one 

hereiam's picture

I have always spoken my mind and I never put up with any bullshit, right from the beginning. We both thought it was important to be real, right up front. Neither of us wanted to waste a bunch of time, pretending to be something we weren't, to have it blow up years later.

I am pretty outspoken and frankly, don't believe in keeping quiet to keep the peace when it comes to things of importance,  which includes things that bother me and that would affect our relationship (and my respect for him).

I would never keep my mouth shut about my DH's daughter taking advantage of him. We actually talk about it all of the time but my DH does not give in to her manipulations and he does not give her money.

It's a principle thing with him, he thinks that she should be independent, not hold out her hands, expecting others to support her. He works hard and he thinks that she should, too and he tried for years to instill that in her. He worries about her future but she is 28 and her future is now up to her. OUR future is what is important to him, now.

Keeping quiet to keep the peace just leads to resentment and is not really an honest relationship.

Movingonisbest's picture

Hereiam, its great to know you stand firmly. It's even better that you and your husband are on the same page. You said the future you and your husband is what is important to him now. Is it safe to say you two are in your mid to late 50s? Was age the factor that stopped him from allowing her to manipulate him? At what age did he stop helping her?

hereiam's picture

He actually never allowed her to manipulate him and we've been together since his daughter was 5 (I'm 53, DH is 56). He has never enabled her. Other than small amounts here and there, he did not just give her money. He tried to teach her about money and about being independent but her BM taught her the opposite, that someone else will always take care of her (and she does not work, to this day). Because of that attitude, my DH never really helped her, financially, once she became an adult. Small things, like fill her car with gas or something, he has done, but he has never paid her bills.

Don't get me wrong, there have been times when he would have loved to swoop in and save the day, but he knew that would not accomplish anything, would not teach her anything, and that she would expect it to be never ending (she's a co-dependent). He knows that her future is now up to her, she's not a kid, anymore. And really, it just irritates him to no end that she refuses work.

Movingonisbest's picture

Good for you and your husband hereiam. Wonder why some fathers see the truth about their lazy disrespectful manipulative adult kids and others do not. Or is it that they do see it but are in denial. Some of these fathers give them everything they want, allow them to control them, and even breakup their marriages/relationships and the adult kids still don't respect them.  Do you think the fathers ever sit back and realize how dysfunctional this is? The day I broke up with him, I asked him a lot of questions none of which he answered. I asked him what his daughter's problem is. What is the issue that at her age she can't seem to do anything for herself. Why is she so selfish and acts as if she has no siblings or if you don't have a grandchild or that you are in a relationship or have elderly parents? If she is not the problem then why do none of your other adult kids behave this way. Why doesn't she care about you or your happiness. She knows you are aging and have health issues and doesn't care about you enjoying your own life and saving for your own future. 

MissTexas's picture

there was never any concept of speaking my mind, even when I had been verbally pistol whipped by SD/BM/Grandkids etc. I loved DH so much and put his happiness before mine. And look where my goodness and loyalty got me!

When the SHTF (shit hit the fan), this all shifted. I adopted my Aunt's Mantra ("If it fuc**s with my happiness I get rid of it!") It took a little while for me to find that power and strength, but once I found it, I realized there is NO GOING BACK. If I think it, I SAY IT. I hold ABSOLUTELY NOTHING BACK. Do you know why? Nobody spared my feelings, or looked out for me and my future. All the behind the back collusion and deception made me realize I was giving everything MY ALL. Excellent meals, all the grocery shopping, spotless house keeping, all medical appointments/surgeries/rehabilitation, entertaining guests (even these SKs), cleaning up after them (though my own kids are much younger, and know how to strip the bed and wash sheets, and make the bed. Not these middle aged entitled people), and the list goes on. It all came to a SCREECHING HALT. Now, if I FEEL LIKE DOING SOMETHING I USED TO DO, then I DO IT. If not, then I refuse to. Again, nobody was catering to my every whim, as I was doing with DH.

Another thing I do, (cnannel my "inner Rags" as he says, "bare his ass") since DH gave away the property and marital home we live in (to his very wealhty adults, and never bothered to tell me one word about it), when we have guests and they tell me what a "beautiful place we have" I stop whoever it is, make sure DH is present, put on my pageant smile, straighten my crown, and recite my elevator speech:

"Oh, well aren't you sweet to think so! But, let me make it abundantly clear, DH GAVE AWAY OUR MARITAL HOME WITHOUT TELLING ME, THOUGH HIS KIDS NEVER LIVED HERE AND THEY OWN OVER A DOZEN HOMES. SO MAKE NO MISTAKE, THIS IS SD'S HOME. I AM NOT EVEN THE EQUIVALENT OF AN ENDENTURED SERVANT, AS THEY GET SOMETHING WHEN THEIR WORK IS COMPLETED. I DON'T EVEN HAVE LEGAL PROTECTION FROM DH. HIS KIDS CAN KICK ME OUT AFTER HE DIES. But, yes, you'r right, it is a beautiful place."

You have to put it all out there. My thinking here is, when a woman leaves, or a couple splits up, it's typical of men to blame and trash the woman, and tell everyone what a bi**h she was etc. This way, THEY ARE ALSO HEARING IT FROM ME AND HE IS NOT DISPUTING IT, so there goes the "bi**h theory."

Movingonisbest's picture

MissTexas that is so sad. Does your husband feel any remorse for this? If you love someone then I don't understand how you treat them like that, specially your spouse. As far as these adult daughters are concerned, what happened to them trying to have their own lives? I would never allow my adult kids to treat me or my my spouse like that.

MissTexas's picture

through all of this.

Well, SD claims to have he own family to look after (no kids), but she finds time to meddle in her dad's marriage, cause chaos, then disown him and claim she wants nothing to do with the man (who gave her millions in real estate, all of it and the homes debt-free) until he starts to behave like a "FATHER." ????? I told DH my response would be, "OK, since I"m not your father, then give me my property back!" She's just angry because DH is behaving like my husband, (attampting to create healthy boundaries )and not behaving like her husband.

Lollybobs's picture

Bloody hell Miss Texas, that's awful. How did he justify that - and what's he doing to put it right? I'm not familiar with US property laws so maybe there' s nothing that can be done...

MissTexas's picture

has NEVER BEEN ABOUT STUFF, and WHAT I CAN GET OUT OF IT/HIM. That was the previous wives' mission.

Justification:"You've always known I wanted my kids to have what I have." Not really. And living it is quite different, especially when it's all been orchestrated without my knowledge or input.  I also knew your previous wife (who was a gold digger, pulled a gun on him several times etc. NONE of which I've done) had a life estate in a debt-free home, and I do not, his kids (who do not need a home, and I do, as I've given up my career to be his 24/7 helper with no pay) do though.

And yes, it's been awful. I would call it elderly abuse on behalf of the SD. She stayed on him, stayed on him, stayed on him until he did what SHE wanted, never once giving me and my future needs any consideration.

Lollybobs's picture

So does your OH still own at least part of the property or could you both be kicked out becauseyo own nothing?

Movingonisbest's picture

MissTexas, he has a mother, perhaps sisters, and even a daughter or daughters. How would he like it if someone treated them like that? Better yet how would his daughter like it if she was married and her husband treated her that way. Utterly ridiculous.

Movingonisbest's picture

The input from the members of this board has been amazing. Has me thinking about this entire situation much more deeply. How I am feeling now really has me leaning towards never speaking to him again except perhaps to let him know again things really are over for good. When you truly love someone you should be honest with the person, respect, cherish, and protect that person. You value that person. Starting to see my ex boyfriend hasn't really been a good partner. I don't think I can ever trust him to be one or a protector. He just doesn't have the characteristics of a good mate. He told me I was the best relationship he ever had. Unfortunately I don't feel the same. We mostly have weekends together and I never want to go through that again.  Very disappointed in him. No longer see a future with him.

notasm3's picture

IF you ever speak to him again, I suggest that you be BRUTALLY frank with him. Do not focus on his daughter ‘s many faults.  

Just tell him that you find him and his actions to be repulsive and disgusting and that you truly find nothing attractive about him. 

I know it is totally against how we were raised. We are conditioned to be “nice”.   I had to do this with an ex who stalked me for years. He was convinced that were were soulmates who met too young. I finally had to bluntly tell him that was not my memory at all and be specific as to why We were never going to happen. 

Movingonisbest's picture

Notasm3. Maybe when I talked to him after not for several weeks I wasn't as firm as I should have been. I did tell him I wasn't allowing that level of disrespect and that when you are in a relationship you don't allow anyone to disrespect your relationship. That he wasn't capable of caring for me properly because he obviously doesn't care about himself. He kept trying to tell me our relationship was wonderful and the best he has ever had. I told him I disagreed. It was a waste of my time and a source of stress and depression. Of course it was cut short when he tried to lie about his daughters behavior as I disconnected the call. During this conversation he was expressing his undying love and pleading with me to allow him to be in my life. The day I broke up with him I told him how weak he is. Told him a lot of harsh realities about his daughter and told him maybe he overlooks her horrible behavior because he is just like her. I hoped he would never contact me again yet he still does. Some people on the boardss are saying disengage while you are saying if I  talk to him one last time I  should be brutally frank with him.

Rags's picture

You have moved on.  One critical element to moving past a bad relationship is not re-engaging.  Once you re-engage it all resets and starts over again.

I formulated what I call Rags' Thee Day Rule long ago.  A breakup only hurts the worst for about three days.  Each day after day three it hurts a bit less until eventually it is little more than an occassional distasteful memory.    You have done the hard part. Take care of  you and stay the course of moving on.  Re-engaging resets the process.  The most painful period starts over, and you give back the progress you have already made.

Take care of you.

Movingonisbest's picture

Rags but don't you think it's disrespectful for the other person to keep making contact? Specially after outright telling lies after several weeks of ignoring him. We are not talking about a young boy here but a grown man who should know better. 

Rags's picture

Yes, it is most definately disrespectful.  However, he is not capable of respecting himself so why does his disrespect towards you bother you?  Remember. He is your X.  Block him.  No need to reconfirm that it is over ... for the umpteenth time. 

"You can't fix....." is far more than just a cliche.  It is truth.  You can't fix him.  But you can prevent him from infecting you again now that you are over his contagious trainwreck of an existence.

Don't inflict pain on yourself by reengaging at all. Let the experience continue to fade in your rear view mirror as you engage in your new life adventure.

Just my thoughts of course..

As for his status as a grown man Vs a young boy.... I am not qualified to comment.  My wife accuses me of being eternally 12 though she will occassionally promote me to 13... for a short while. 

Wink

Movingonisbest's picture

Guess I didn't look at it that way. Guess if he can't accept my words about things being over it falls on him. Maybe his denial is just too deep. Oh well. Appreciate your perspective.

Rags's picture

Just take care of  you.  Trying to find some level of rationality in the clueless is the eternal unicorn hunt.

Aniki-Moderator's picture

Almost 24 years old and refuses to support herself.

That's all I needed to read to know HE is the problem. This young woman will NEVER support herself because her daddy has allowed her to become spoiled and entitled. 

You say you are more successful financially and it sounds like he is being financially drained by his inability to say 'no' to his daughter. IMO, THIS is why he's trying to win you back. Poor health and a moneypit for a daughter are taking a toll and he wants some finanical security. 

Cut the last of your ties to this man and move on. You deserve better.

Movingonisbest's picture

Aniki, I appreciate your perspective. You know I wondered why he wasn't being responsible with his money knowing he is aging and having some health issues.One time he even said to me that he hopes he doesn't end up homeless. I didn't really know he meant that. But I didn't know his daughter was draining him like that either. It seems since he has been down, her demands have been greater or maybe it has always been that way and he was hiding it from me. He created that problem and he has to deal with it. My adult kids are independent so it's horrific to think I was actually going to financially support her or financially support him because he is giving his money away to her. Oh well, never going to happen. I am moving on so he needs to do the same.

Aniki-Moderator's picture

he even said to me that he hopes he doesn't end up homeless

IMO, that is a seed he tried to plant in your head so you would take pity and financially support him - and, ultimately, his awful daughter.

I'm glad to hear you are moving on. You deserve better.

Movingonisbest's picture

Aniki I didn't realize that was what he was doing. Maybe I didn't look at it that way because I already know if he was expecting that it was never going to happen. The smartest thing for him to do if he wanted this relationship was to learn to tell his daughter no. Obviously he wasn't listening when I told him I don't take care of able-bodied adults. Smh

Aniki-Moderator's picture

Well, I cannot know for certain, but it feels that way to me. 

One of the biggest problems with divorced parents is their inability to continue parenting as before. They don't set boundaries and try to "buy" love. They think that the children have already suffered sooo much because... Divorce. Divorce does not mean you no longer love your child(ren) and can no longer parent. 

Movingonisbest's picture

Aniki,  his situation must have something more to it. He has other adult kids by different woman and none of them behave that way. He seems fine with telling them no, but they rarely or never ask for anything. The day I broke with him I asked him several times what this daughter's problem was because none of his other children behave like her and he wouldn't respond. Every time I asked him what the issue is that she refuses to support herself he still would not respond. When I asked questions like what makes her so special because her behavior is beyond horrific he still would not respond. I also told him he was trying to buy love from her and it obviously wasn't working. He has some people in his life who love him but if I had to guess she likely ruined those relationships. She has done some things that he knows there could be penalties for and he just looks the other way. I am so glad to be finished with the relationship with him. So much less stress

Aniki-Moderator's picture

That's strange and a bit disturbing to me. I wonder about their actual relationship. 

You must feel like a great weight has been lifted. 

Movingonisbest's picture

It's very disturbing. Maybe they both have some sort of genetic based mental illness. But yes I am glad the relationship is over. Just hope he returns my personal items.

Aniki-Moderator's picture

Do you have an attorney? If he's going to be difficult, you may have to take legal action. 

Aniki-Moderator's picture

I can relate, hon. I had to take legal action against my psycho exh to get my things back (complete with a police escort). You should have seen some of the things that exh insisted be in the divorce (he wanted custody of the BED QUILT). 

Wishing you the best. 

Movingonisbest's picture

Oh that is ridiculous Aniki. So glad I don't have ties to this man like marriage or kids.

BethAnne's picture

He is in an abusive realationship with his daughter. This is part of his reality and how he thinks things should be, it doesn't sound like he sees it as abusive. If you look up the cycle of abuse there is a phase where the perpetrator will promise the world and promise to change and declaire their undying love to regain the trust and confidence of their victim. Your ex may not have abused you but he is used to this over the top phase as a way to mend relationships and so this is the way that he knows how to make things right again and to win you back. He is desperate and dispondant without you. I do not know how you make it clear to him that you want nothing to do with him, but continuing to ignore him is probably key. If he keeps harassing you taking out a restraining order or getting a lawyer to send a letter to him to stop pestering you could help. 

I am glad that you have recongnised what was going on here and have moved on before getting sucked deeper into this mess. It is not yours to fix and you deserve so much more from a partner.

Movingonisbest's picture

BethAnne, the comment you made"He is in an abusive realationship with his daughter. This is part of his reality and how he thinks things should be, it doesn't sound like he sees it as abusive" is quite interesting.  I think to a certain extent he knows it is a form abuse. His level of distress when he would see her number come up on his phone sometimes was ridiculous. As I said before I thought it was because of the financial burden. I didn't know until recently she was verbally abusive. If he didn't believe what she was doing was wrong he wouldn't have tried to lie about when I finally did talk to him right? This over the top behavior he is exhibiting isn't going to work to win me back. I feel very disrespected that he brought this chaos into my life. Life really is too short and Im not going to spend my time dealing with their problems.

Movingonisbest's picture

MussTexas, in another thread you posted "In reality, these men mostly care about their comfort level, and that of their adult "kids." The sad part is that they want to be #1 im their wives or girlfriend's life though. Do you think they purposely hide these issues in the beginning? I just don't know how any man can allow someone to disrespect the woman they claim to love and not protect her.

MissTexas's picture

their "kids." It is very sad. And I don't know if they intentionally hide thier "sickness" in the beginning, because in a way, that would be admission that there IS a problem from them. I think these SD's in particular just guilt daddy into doing it "their way" for so long. Dad's oblige out of guilt, so SD keeps playing that card because it's proven effective in the past, so you get caught up in this viscious cycle. You asked how any man can allow someone to disrespect the woman they claim to love, well that's the million dollar question that leaves all of us scratching our heads eventually. I think some people's motives for marriage are pure, and simple; they LOVE the other person, but I'm finding with age in particular, people's motives may not always be love. I mentioned in another post how SD screamed at me that I was using her dad. For what? He's given them EVERYTHING, AND I HAVE NOTHING MONETARILY. So I guess I could flip the script and say maybe it is the SKs and DH who are using me. After all I'm a great tax write off, and they can go about their "busy lives" without worrying about hiring a home health person for DH, or having to be burdened with his care in the future. That's what I'm for.

It is what it is.

Movingonisbest's picture

MissTexas, it definitely feels like being used. People on this board opened my eyes to that. He makes less than me, and I pay more of the expenses when we do things. What I didn't know was that he was regularly sending money to his adult daughter. The way I started seeing it despite me earning more and paying more because of it,  he should have been doing his fair share. He was saving money by being with me but giving it to her.  There are places I would like to see and things I would like to do but I was waiting for him to get his finances straightened out.  It is hard for me to believe he was going behind my back doing that. He knows financially his daughter is a bottomless pit. I  could have been with someone else trying to enjoy life. It is hard to believe he would do something like that. Sometimes he would even be ungrateful. He still keeps trying to contact me. What a fool if he thinks Im giving him the time of day. He messed up his good thing so adios to him.

Movingonisbest's picture

For all of you that have gone through obstacles with your stepchildren and your husband/partner has not intervened, you have to be very strong.I feel a bit foolish because I didn't know these types of dysfunctional relationships existed between fathers and their daughters. Everyone I spoke to agrees I made the right decision to end the relationship. I know I did too but there is still an element of bitterness there along with frustration that  comes with being sucked into a situation like this to begin with. It makes me question my own judgment about why I didn't see this from the beginning but a relative told me  my ex kept it hidden and hoped I would never find out. My relative also said my ex probably hasn't returned my things because he doesn't believe the relationship is over. My relative also said my ex wanted to have two partners in his life, me and his daughter and things don't work like that. He is only allowed to have one. My relative also said men who have dysfunctional relationships with their kids like this likely never change.

hereiam's picture

Your relatives are right about a lot of things!

Don't feel foolish, there was no reason for you to know if you had never experienced it before. It really does take a long time to truly get to know someone, especially when they are hiding things from you and have baggage.

Movingonisbest's picture

Hereiam thanks. Also you said "It really does take a long time to truly get to know someone, especially when they are hiding things from you and have baggage." So you think they hide things like this type of baggage because they know otherwise you wouldn't give them the time of day? They don't realize that once you find out the truth the relationship is going to end anyways? I mean geez, you llie and pretend to be someone you're not, bring baggage into my life, and you really expect me to stick around?  He has no clue what a strong healthy relationship is. You can't have a relationship based on lies. What's also ridiculous is begging someone to allow you to be in their life when you know you don't deserve that.  Either you rise up or get left.

hereiam's picture

So you think they hide things like this type of baggage because they know otherwise you wouldn't give them the time of day? They don't realize that once you find out the truth the relationship is going to end anyways?

Yes, because they think that by the time you find out the truth, you will either be so in love (or think that you are) that it won't matter, or you will feel too trapped to leave. I mean, how can one be in love with someone who has not even shown their true self?

People feel that if they've invested a certain amount of time, they must stick it out. Or, if they've left their city, their job, their friends and family, they need to see it through, they don't feel they have a choice. They feel trapped, even when they are not. Some men count on that, the woman not being strong enough to walk away.

 

Movingonisbest's picture

Hereiam, you said " I mean, how can one be in love with someone who has not even shown their true self?" I  agree completely. I  mentioned before he said something like "You are the only lady who has ever loved me for me." Well obviously because I didn't know he was being deceptive.  I don't have that kind of baggage. It  is VERY unhealthy.  So are you saying his thinking I would stick around for this was not something specific to me but really just his selfish manipulative flawed way of thinking from the start? If so that means he never had intentions on fixing this. This world is full of women, after all the harsh realities I gave him about himself and his daughter, why doesn't he just return my things and go find someone else? Groveling from a man is ridiculous especially when he knows he was wrong from the start. Surely someone has told him that the relationship is over right if a woman breaks up with him, never contacts him, never sees him anymore, typically never answers his calls, and hangs up on him for telling a lie about the main problem she left him over? If you can't be honest with a woman then there must be some sort of character flaw.

sandye21's picture

Hereiam, you nailed it!  This is what happened with me. I FELT trapped even though I wasn't.  When I married DH I was going through all sorts of issues with work and family.  I was a mess.  Previous relationships with exDH and adopted kids had been failures.  My divorce had been a nasty one.  I just wanted to succeed in a relationship.  I worked hard and was a good financial investment.  DH is a smart man - in some ways.   He knew just what to do:  Keep me in a constant state of turmoil.  He would be really nice, then threaten to leave.  When I discovered that he had lied to me I was assured this would not happen again.   Every time he pulled something he was smart enough to convince me things would change.  And you are spot on - I just wasn't strong enough to walk away.

I went to a lawyer early on in our marriage and was told if I divorce DH I might have to give him some of my hard-earned money.  This, and as you wrote, I had a good amount of time invested in this marriage caused me to hesitate.  The 'downs' in this marriage have always been followed by promises of change,  When his daughter verbally attacked me and he ran out of the door, I was assured he would work on the marriage.  When he didn't emotionally defend me I was told it wouldn't happen agian.  I felt too trapped, there was too much time invested, and I was not strong enough to face another failure.

Society burns the picture in our minds that women are successful if they can reach old age in a loving marriage.  That the couple overcomes obstacles and setbacks to emerge as two elderly people, sitting on a bench in the park, holding hands.  The same society convinces us that as SMs all we have to do is be nice, overlook rudeness and rejection, eventually we will be loved by the skids.  This is 'reality TV' which is NOT quite reality.

Now I have realized that I WASN'T trapped.  It is all in the way you look at failure vs. success.  Something happened last year that really opened my eyes.  I have learned that the most important person who has to validate you is yourself. 

SDM has been a big motivation for me.  She found the courage to end a turbulent relationship with a DH who kept her on an elastic thread for decades.  He pulled her into his self-created hell with his daughter, then repeatedly repented and promised change.  She eventually succeeded in making a happier life for herself.  Now I am trying to be smart for once and laying out a plan for SUCCESSFUL independence. 

Movingonisbest's picture

Sandye21 you said "And you are spot on - I just wasn't strong enough to walk away." You are a strong person. Anyone who can stay and tolerate these dysfunctional relationships and not have a nervous breakdown are still strong in their own way. After my ex's adult daughter verbally abused him and he offered to take her on vacation rather than standing up to her I never want to be around him or that toxicity again. Not sure what it is but when someone treats your man like that and he doesn't speak for himself nothing else he could possibly say matters. For me that means he is weak and not a protector at all. Do these men really not know how they are perceived afterwards? It's been easy for me not to contact him again. Don't know how he isn't completely embarrassed.

sandye21's picture

"Do these men really not know how they are perceived afterwards?"  They really are more concerned with their comfort than anything else.  As long as we keep excusing their behavior, it doesn't matter how they are perceived by us.  They ARE, however, very concerned about how they are perceived by other people.  My DH wants to be thought of as a nice guy but, as you wrote, has no fear of me leaving.  Therefore, he treats me much different then he treats others.  That's part of the 'shtick':  How can you possibly leave such a nice man?  He must be abused - right?

MissTexas's picture

all that matters. 

It seems like they would come to the obvious conclusion that they live with US full-time, and if they don't support us emotionally, and make it abundantly clear to SD's that the marriage comes FIRST (you wouldn't think you'd have to spell this out for "adults") their "comfort level" at home would reach an all time low, however if they'd get it through their heads their home life would be a paradise, reaching all new heights. It's all in their hands, and they are perfectly aware that they hold the key to making things right, but refuse to. I told DH if my "comfort level" has continually been ignored, and I've been asked to put BM, SK's SGK's before my own happiness, then the least he can do it make it right. If my comfort level has been ignored blatantly, then I reminded DH his comfort level can also be compromised. No more secret rendevouzing with SD, absolutely no more! If I have to feel the pain, then in the words of Rags, "I have to bring the pain"&  in effect, return the "favor."Personally, I'd rather make my spouse happy whom I spend most of my life with rather than toxic, self-entitled, abusive offspring who I may see once in a while

Another member here messaged me the other day, and said, "Texas, you're getting stronger. I can see a definite difference in your posts and responses now! You go girl." To which I replied, "Only the strong survive."

Movingonisbest's picture

MissTexas, I agree with you about some things being common sense. My ex obviously thought allowing his adult daughter who he hasn't seen in several years to disrespect him and our relationship. When I asked him why he thought someone he hasn't seen in several years has the right to try to control our relationship he wouldn't respond.  Then he really thought he could still ask me out on dates like I was actually going to go. He lost the privilege to spend time with me when he showed he wasn't able to stand up to his daughter and be a man. Like I said before, that was a problem that should have been fixed. But him trying to change the facts of what happened is weird. The truth is the truth, and if he has to lie and pretend like his daughter treats him well then he is just as screwed up as her.

MissTexas's picture

others say nothing, and do nothing. It's known as going "Helen Keller" (Blind & Deaf). I always think of the "hear no evil, see no evil...." monkeys.

I read from another poster, "Just because he has decided to be Mr, Doormat, does not mean you have to play Mrs. Doormat." Truth!

Movingonisbest's picture

MissTexas, that helps clarify things. Now I am also realizing he really is a broken man. I've been through a lot in my life and still wish he wouldn't have sucked me into this. We don't deserve this.

sandye21's picture

Thank you for your observations.  I know I have to get strong to survive.

Movingonisbest's picture

Sandye21, you said "They really are more concerned with their comfort than anything else." I can tell you the day I broke up with my ex was not a comfortable day for him. I told him a lot of harsh realities and he looked like he wanted to cry. Not sure if it was because of the harsh realities or if he realized I was finished with him. No way in the world was he getting off easy.  He knew I wasn't tolerating his daughter's direspect or his inability to set her straight. Still can't quite understand how he thought he could change the facts of what happened to pretend like she was thanking him when he knows I was right there and heard what she said. Is that some form of defense tactic?

sandye21's picture

"Still can't quite understand how he thought he could change the facts of what happened to pretend like she was thanking him when he knows I was right there and heard what she said. Is that some form of defense tactic?"  Yes.  It's called 'gasligthing'.  The Google definition of gasligthing is, 'manipulate (someone) by psychological means into questioning their own sanity.'  Which also means lying and expecting the other person not to call you on it because you make them question what they heard or saw. 

Your ex lied and changed the facts so you would be doubting your observations and questioning your reactions.  It's either his version or yours, and most people shy away from calling out a liar - especially if there is a 'chance' we might have not heard something right..  This would have opened the door for future manipulation.  My SD took advantage of times when DH wasn't present to be verbally and emotionally abusive to me.  When I told him what she had done, he said, "I never saw it."  One time I had a witness when SD slammed a door in my face but DH still discredited it.  So it just didn't happen, right? 

Movingonisbest's picture

Sandye21, so is psychological gaslighting intentional or unintentonal? If it was intentonal then the more I read on these boards the more I am seeing he was trying to manipulate me. If that's the case then he still wants something from me, and if thst is the case what others have said is it my very well be financial support. Smh. Mentally healthy people don't manipulate those they love. Perhaps his daughter learned this behavior from him and not just her mother or others. 

sandye21's picture

https://www.vox.com/first-person/2018/12/19/18140830/gaslighting-relatio...  - (ignore the political statements if you wish)

Excerpts:

'In the vernacular, the phrase “to gaslight” refers to the act of undermining another person’s reality by denying facts, the environment around them, or their feelings. Targets of gaslighting are manipulated into turning against their cognition, their emotions, and who they fundamentally are as people.

Gaslighting in interpersonal relationships often develops or builds on an existing power dynamic. While it’s most common in romantic settings, gaslighting can happen in any kind of relationship where one person is so important to the other that they don’t want to take the chance of upsetting or losing them, such as a boss, friend, sibling, or parent. Gaslighting happens in relationships where there is an unequal power dynamic and the target has given the gaslighter power and often their respect.

The latter is an important gaslighting technique: Undermining a partner’s emotions and feelings is a way to deny their reality. Continuous invalidity of how the other partner feels about a situation is just as effective as saying their perceptions are wrong. The emotional chopping away during those moments has the effect of convincing the other person that they could be imagining or “making up” scenarios that don’t exist, when in all reality, what that person is feeling or experiencing is real.

How do you recognize that gaslighting is happening?

Take a look at the list below. If any part of the list resonates with you, you may be involved in a gaslighting relationship and need to look further.

You ask yourself, “Am I too sensitive?” many times per day.

You often feel confused and even crazy in the relationship.

You’re always apologizing.

You can’t understand why you aren’t happier.

You frequently make excuses for your partner’s behavior.

You know something is wrong but you just don’t know what.

You start lying to avoid put-downs and reality twists.

You have trouble making simple decisions.

You wonder if you are good enough.

While all of these symptoms can occur with anxiety disorders, depression, or low self-esteem, the difference with gaslighting is that there is another person or group that’s actively engaged in trying to make you second-guess what you know is true. If you don’t typically experience these feelings with other people but do with one particular individual, then you might be a victim of gaslighting.

It’s also worth noting that in my practice, the gaslighter is typically a man and the gaslightee is typically a woman. In my clinical experience, many women are socialized to doubt themselves and continually apologize for disagreeing or upsetting their partners. Men are not.

Suggestion:  Write down your conversation in a journal so you can take an objective look at it. Where is the conversation veering off from reality into the other person’s view? Then after you look at the dialogue, write down how you felt. Look for signs of repeated denial of your experience.

You are the architect of your own reality. If you’re looking at the beams and walls and telling yourself, “Wait, I know this just isn’t true,” then the gaslight might be on.'

 

Movingonisbest's picture

Sandye21, I read your comment above but it's still unclear to me if psychological gaslighting is intentional or unintentional. 

MissTexas's picture

who strategizes in order to not be discovered. If a person keeps gaslighting you, then they are persistent in making YOU think YOU are the problem. They shift the focus away from themselves, thier issues and the fact that THEY, NOT YOU, really are the problem. They also tend to get their flying monkeys to go along with it, so you then have a "gaslighting group." 

Make no mistake, it is INTENTIONAL!

Movingonisbest's picture

MissTexas, I appreciate you clarifying that for me. I was just looking at my situation to figure out if that lie he tried to tell about his daughters behavior was intentional to manipulate me (I know that was part of it) or if he has learned a defense mechanism to help him cope with the type of person she really is. I remember showing him some lies she was telling he looked at it and tried to say he didn't know what it was.  She has lied about the year she graduated from high school and lied about why she isn't the year she originally said she was in college. I never could understand why he wouldn't be able to remember the year she graduated from high school. I felt it was because he knew she was telling a lie and couldn't face it. After she verbally abused him that day, I figured he might just be afraid of her.

sandye21's picture

As Miss Texas wrote, it IS intentional.  When you caught your ex in a lie about his daughter's behavior what did he do?  He gave you more B.S.  It was intentional.

Movingonisbest's picture

Sandye21, I was confused about it also because who in their right mind would believe the lie he told. Specifically when they were present and heard everything. It's kinda like him trying to tell me the sky is pink, when we both know it's blue. 

shes driving me crazy in my retirement's picture

Hi OP - My experience has been that it doesn't get better...you just go through more hell, hope and confusion.

For me it is going to be divorce and soon.  I, too, am much better off financially than he is.  It is only his one daughter that is disrespectfully, actually down right crazy in the true meanign of the word.

sandye21's picture

Hoping things are mending now.  You took a big step which creates initial turmoil but the end results are going to be worth it.  Hang in there.  (((HUGS)))

Movingonisbest's picture

How long have you been married? Has she always been a problem?. Is your husband in denial? Did something finally happen that made you decide to get a divorce?

lorlors's picture

It sounds like she is telling porkies about college if she refuses to give out any information at all. Has he asked to see letters from the college? Invoices? That sort of thing? She sounds tyrannical. You are better off out of it.

Good luck.

Movingonisbest's picture

Lorlors, at first he acted like he was scared to ask her about her paperwork from college. Then when he did, he said she told him she didn't want him invading her privacy. He settled for that.

Movingonisbest's picture

Yeah my friends and family don't believe she is really in college or if she is, she isn't doing that well.

Rags's picture

She isn't. And if she is.. she is failing miserably.   A parent who is funding the University studies of their child is not invading their privacy by demanding records of their enrollment and academic performance.  

That parent is anylizing an investment.  If the kid delivers, the investment is worthwhile. If the kid doesn't deliver, it is a bad investment and the money stops.

No differently than investing in a stock.