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O/T - Who ARE we to others?

2Tired4Drama's picture

I've been thinking about this issue for awhile now, and thought I'd throw this out there for discussion.

The SD28 that I know is a selfish, self-centered person who neglects her father and could care less about him.  When she's around, the entire conversation is about her and her life.  She is negative, nasty and condescending if anyone disagrees with her in the slightest.  If my SO does begin to talk to her with news about his side of the family, her eyes wander around the room or she looks at her phone and doesn't say a word.  She has no interest whatsoever in her dad's life (and me, of course) and it appears she has brought her new husband to feel the same.   

SD's husband is close to his family members even though they are a pool of dysfunction (felons, drug abusers, domestic violence, etc.)  yet he and SD interact with them all on a regular basis.  You would think at some point he'd be asking, "Hey, SD, why don't you ever talk to your dad?"   For a little while I was hopeful he may have been a bridge of sorts and help SD connect better with her own father.  Sadly for my SO, that's not to be.

Anyway, at the wedding SD's brand-new SIL gave a speech about how wonderful SD is, how close they were, how ecstatic she was to have her as a "sister" etc.   And her coworkers at the wedding seemed to be of the same mind-set; SD is such a wonderful person, they all enjoy working with her, and love her like a little sister.   One other time, she actually did show up at an event where my SO was being honored at work and I was amazed at how she smoothly walked around and talked with his co-workers, shook their hands and introduced herself, smiled genuinely at everyone, looked them in the eyes, and chatted pleasantly. 

The whole time, I was thinking:   Who the hell IS she??  Is she a Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde dual-personality?  

Which brings me to my own sister.   She has some similar traits to SD; self-absorbed, a bit of a drama queen, quick to bite our heads off, nasty demeanor often for no reason, doesn't ask about us unless it's to get info to meddle, etc.   

Yet the same thing happened at a work event in my sister's honor.  Her coworkers were going on and on about how much they loved her, enjoyed working with her.   It was like a sister I never knew - a stranger!  She was full of fun, laughing with people, genuinely interested in them, knew all about their families, etc.  My brother and I  stood there and shook our heads, asking ourselves "Who the heck IS she?"  I once told my brother that she acts that way towards us because she thinks she can always get away with it - almost like we are the place she decides she can let off her "nasty steam."

I understand that most people have a tendency to let down their emotional hair, so to speak, with their own families and it isn't always pleasant.  I also know that most people tend to have a bit better behavior in the workplace simply due to the professional enviornment.  But in both SD and my sister's cases, it seems like they are truly different people and have different personalities!  

Does anyone else have experience with this phenomenon?  I find it truly baffling ... and more than a little annoying. 

 

SacrificialLamb's picture

Some people are really good at putting on a fake face and hiding who they really are. They frequently go into politics. I saw it in the corporate world during my career also.  

You'll drive yourself crazy wondering why others don't see someone the way you do. Other people don't have the time and experience to know these people as we do.  My OSD is cut from this same cloth.  It amazes me she has any friends at all knowing how she really is. When you first meet her she comes across and so charming and agreeable.

I don't believe people who put on a fake face or a show are really happy because they are not authentic.  These people know how to be nice to others; they frequently choose not to do it.

Sarri3's picture

Hi 2Tired!  Our modern society is full of people who are so self centered, so self absorbed, egotistical “all about me” narcissists, and they seem so very skilled and capable at putting on the charm.  They know how to manipulate an entire room with their presence, and suck people right in.  It’s amazing.  I remember back in school (all those years ago, lol) there were the few popular girls everyone seems to fawn all over to become friends with, or sit with at lunch, or want to be like or follow their every move.  In most of those cases, I recall these girls were not nice people at all, were stuck up, self centered, and didn’t give others much, if any,  thought.  What draws people to that is mystifying to me as well.  I think it’s a sad reflection of what many people in our society choose to  admire and look up too.  There is also the narcissists uncanny ability to project a fake facade so others don’t see the real them.  It’s frustrating when we see them for what they really are!!  And that ain’t to pretty. 

sandye21's picture

My SD could be very charming with people she did not know well.  But eventually, and it might take a couple of years, she would reveal her 'real' self.  Her 'new' co-workers or friends would think she was the best thing since bread.  Then, little by little her friends or her co-workers became irritating to her and her bosses didn't show appreciation for her work.  Her friends develop flaws.  So she is 'let go' or quits her job, and she winds up with another ex-friend. 

One of her ex-friends told me that SD had spoken badly about me.  The friend seemed amazed that I wasn't surprised and didn't react to it at all.  We belonged to a group when we lived in another state.  When they met SD they were impressed but after a few events some of them were commenting on SD's negative attitude.

I have been around narcissistic individuals, both family and 'frienemies' who are quite charming.  They may have devoted friends or coworkers but it is not often long term.  They never seem to be able to give their true hearts to other people.  Eventually people see a superficial relationship rather than a real one.  My own Mother is like this.  She is in her early 90's and says she doesn't need friends - she's satisfied with her own company.  But she wants a big funeral.

fairyo's picture

Today I spoke to a friend who had only just found out that the X and I split up. She said she was stunned (like many others have been) and it is hard to explain to others how difficult things had become.

She remarked that she had last seen him at my birthday party last year when he had been his usual charming, attentive self. When I told her that things had already become difficult by then she said,' Well he was very good at hiding it.' One of the very few things he was good at, it would seem. Well now both he and XOSD have lost their audience. I'm sure they are finding each other very entertaining-  not!

bedazzled's picture

My SD also can be very charming and knows how to work a room of people. I believe is is called Overt Narcissism. They have 2 different personalities. They are very good at keeping their self love hidden in public. 

marblefawn's picture

I looked up "overt narcissism" and found also "covert narcissism" and there was my mother's picture! Thanks for that little gem, Moose! Now I know it's not all in my head! Now, if I could only find out how to deal with her...sigh.

2Tired4Drama's picture

How do you deal with people like this?  I understand that it's always a choice to cut toxic people out of your life, although it can be difficult when it's your own family members.  

I also wonder what is their authentic self?  In my sister's case, these are people she's worked with for over a decade and often socializes with, so I think there was ample time to see the other side of her personality.  If she was able to spend at least 8 hours per day with people and they all thought she was fun-loving and charming, then who is this person she is when she is with my brother and I?  This nasty, mean-spirited b!tch who has a spring-trigger temper and spews foulness every chance she gets.  Of course, I hold my ground and distance her when she's like this - but still wonder who she really is.  Which one is her authentic self?!

Sigh.  I guess there are some questions which don't always have clear answers.  Oh well, I guess it keeps counselors and psychologists in business!  

 

sandye21's picture

Marblefawn and 2Tired4Drama, I am not a professional therapist but both SD and my Mother fit the description of a narcissist.  They were both only children who were treated very 'special' and were not given the tools to function in a normal family environment.  They did not learn to empathize or share or respect others.  I looked up narcissistic Mothers and was astonished that my Mother and SD matched EVERY ONE of the traits

The way I deal with my Mother is different than how I deal with SD but in either case, the answer has been to disengage.

  With my Mother, to avoid the 'shame' from other relatives, I remain in contact but try to stay away from her physically as much as possible, and luckily she lives over 1000 miles away.  I have learned not to give her any narcissistic fuel. Everything is always "great!!" in phone conversations - no problems at all.  If she pumps me for information, "What's new with you", I respond, "Oh, nothing, what's new with you?"  After about 10 minutes of listening to how her bowels are working and what a victim she is, I find an excuse to cut the 'conversation' off.

With SD, she is not allowed in our home until she can respect me as DH's wife.  I don't discuss her with DH.  I no longer have a desire to win her over as I tried 20 years to do.

The difference between the two is that SD is not my responsibility.  I have to 'demonstrate' responsibility for my Mother even if I do not really feel it .

Since the subject is narcissism, I wanted to share what i found on Google Images:

The Narcissist's Prayer:  

That didn't happen. 

And if it did, it wasn't that bad. 

And if it was, that's not a big deal. 

And if it is, it's not my fault. 

And if it was, I didn't mean it. 

And if I did, you deserved it!

 

SoDisappointed's picture

Sandye21, as you know I am dealing with a narcissistic SS that is infectious to the rest of his family. Thankfully the disengagement got easier since I am now disengaged fro the whole lot of them. I think partially disengaging is much more difficult. 

But I wanted to tell you the Narcissist’s Prayer cracked me up. Anyone dealing with this type of person can see them going through those exact steps and saying those things if they were ever fully called out on their rude behavior. Thanks for sharing and making me literally laugh out loud. 

sandye21's picture

"I think partially disengaging is much more difficult."  It is - because even if you have a 10 minute conversation with them it is like being part of an emotional marathon.  You have to constantly be 'in check' and afterward 'de-contaminate' and 'refresh'.

My mother called me up for my Birthday last month.  She said, "Happy Birthday."  In her next breath she began a detailed account of how awful my birth was and how I caused her horrible labor pains.  That was 71 years ago.  This 'prayer' helps me to see there is humor in anything if we look for it.

ldvilen's picture

I think Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde explains a lot of people's attitude towards SMs, with many riding with Mr. Hyde virtually non-stop.

Every day I think maybe in the three years since I started blogging here there was been some progress, and then bingo! I see something in the paper or net or TV that makes me realize what a long way we have to go.

I was watching an episode of Evil Stepmothers on ID Discovery.  Usually, the SMs here are the rare, truly evil SMs and you can see that from the get-go.  But, the case the other night was a little different.  About the first ½ of it consisted of DH’s relatives going on and on about what a !#@$! be.atch SM was from the beginning, because she wasn’t the World’s Most Perfect Mother to her slightly disabled adult SS.

Almost all of these negatives about SM were coming directly from adult SS, whom, of course, had no vested interest at all in showing SM in the worst possible light so he could have dad all to himself, like the good ol’ days.  Little proof was given other than the SS’s words, including him accusing SM of reading pornographic material to him in his face (he just didn’t want to tell his dad!), and yet clearly the audience was supposed to believe SS 100%, with no proof just words, and believe SM 0%.

Then, to boot, very few of DH’s relatives, tho. invited agreed to attend SM’s and DH’s wedding.  THEN, after DH and SM married, DH’s relatives whined and complained about how cold SM was and how they never got much from her.  Yada, yada, yada.  Same ol’.  Yet, again, the viewer audience was supposed to buy into this hook, line and sinker without even a thought as to: “Wait a second!? If you treated SM like trailer trash, going so far as to flip off her and DH's wedding, then maybe you should expect at least a cold-shoulder in return?”

The coup de grâce was when older SD claimed that her dad took her aside at one point and told her “secretly” that he only ever loved one woman, and that was BM, but dad was sticking it out with SM because he needed someone to take care of ‘em.  Ha!  Don’t know if that was true or not, but if SM found that out, and I’m sure someone in that family made sure that she did, she probably did really shoot him. 

Yet again, it was all sweet innocent dad and sweet innocent adult children and other relatives, and how SM was just plain evil and sloppy seconds.  Ahhh, we’ve got a long way to go, folks, unfortunately.

2Tired4Drama's picture

there was a show called "Evil Stepmothers"!   How did I miss that one - LOL!  That's the problem with so much content, you can't keep up with it all.

I just took a peek at it on the show website and it looks like every episode plays into the stereotype of stepmothers.   Sigh.  Just what we need, more popular culture heaping it on.