Disengaging from father's wife... how to get him to accept it?

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Hi all... new to the forum.

So.. a couple of years ago I took the difficult decision to disengage from my father's wife. ( I don't think the step-mother label is particularly apt since there are no children involved, just adults). My reasons were much the same as others on this forum, who have chosen to disengage from their SCs. I got sick of the manipulation, power games, lack of respect for boundaries etc., and like many here, decided enough was enough.

The problem is, how do I get him to accept this? I know he'd like the classic "brady bunch" happy family, but obviously life isn't always like that.

So.. I'm just wondering, how have others dealt with this kind of thing? How did you get your partner to accept the disengagement?

Well.... it sort of depends

Well.... it sort of depends on what "acceptance" looks like to you. And "disengagement" for that matter. I'm "disengaged" from my stepkids in that I don't do anything "parental" for them. That's entirely on their actual parents. HOWEVER. I support my DH having a good relationship with them, and I am pleasant and friendly towards them when I see them. My DH "accepts" this - he's certainly never asked me to feel more "motherly" towards them!

Specifics would be good, we might be able to help more if you describe your situation better.

For example, if you meant: "I have told my father I am unwilling to see or talk to him as long as his wife is present, and he hasn't come to see me since" then I'd say that is NOT disengagement - it was a declaration of war and you forced your father to choose sides. You lost.

If you meant, "I am pleasant, but I don't feel it's appropriate to buy her a Mother's Day present and my father is trying to guilt trip me into it" then I'd say you need to sit your dad down and tell him, "My relationship with WifeName is between her and me. Please stop trying to interfere and let us work out what we're comfortable with."

Exactly. Well said. Far too

Exactly. Well said. Far too often Sparents and Skids declare war on each other and try to force the parent in the middle to give up either their kids or their spouse. That is the surest way to a divorce or being alienated from a parent.

"Far too often Sparents and

"Far too often Sparents and Skids declare war on each other and try to force the parent in the middle to give up either their kids or their spouse. That is the surest way to a divorce or being alienated from a parent."

I agree. war is the last thing we need. I certainly don't want his marriage to suffer, and he knows that. I just wish he could understand that his marriage is between him and his wife, and it doesn't confer on her the right to dictate how he relates to the rest of his family.

Thank you for the fast reply!

Some more specifics.

1. "acceptance". I mean the way the child of divorced parents has to accept the situation, and they won't be seeing them together again. Obviously it's not a happy situation, but if a child is expected to handle it, I would have thought a 75 year old man can handle it too.

2. "disengagement". Basically, I avoid her, and see my father on his own. This does work out reasonably well. They both live around 250 miles away, but her daughter lives in the same city as me, so it's easy for him to pop over to mine for the afternoon whist she's with her family. I also visit him when I can.

When she's not there, he reverts to the dad he used to be when my mother was alive.. but then he'll suggest us doing something that involves her and I have to explain again that that's not going to happen.

I should add that this 2 yr disengagement comes after 10 years of her doing her best to destroy the relationship between me and my father. I can't really cover everything that happened here, but basically I think it comes down to her wanting to destroy my credibility after she discovered that I'm friends with the daughter of a woman who used to "cover" for her when she was having affairs in her previous marriage. She had always claimed to be the innocent party in her divorce, when really she was the wayward one, and it seems my "inside knowledge" was something of a threat... not just to her image in my father's eyes, but legally, since her divorce settlement based on her being the innocent party.

Your last paragraph - sitting down and trying to explain to my father.. that's basically what I tried for 10 years, but nothing changed.

I don't know. Maybe I'm hoping for too much. I guess it is going to be upsetting to him, and being my father, I hate to see him upset.

Maybe I also have an idealised perspective on this as I have a step/goddaughter of my own ( now 22), and our relationship couldn't be better, even though I'm not in a romantic relationship her mother anymore ( we remain very close friends ). Just the other week, at her mother's birthday do, she came up to me, gave me a big hug and said "Thank you for being a dad to me all these years". I kinda wish my father had been there to see it. Maybe then he'd see that I'm not the villain his wife makes me out to be and maybe I do know a thing or two about how to make a blended family work.

Sorry.. this is turning into a bit of a ramble, but thanks for your input

"What has she actually done

"What has she actually done to alienate you?"

The first incident was one time I was visiting my dad, a few weeks after they were married. She and I were in the kitchen, having a regular, if slightly stilted conversation. We heard my dad coming down the stairs, and she started to raise her voice. Then, as my dad opened the kitchen door to enter the room, she sudden let out a yelp and ran out of the back door.

Both me and my dad looked at each other, wondering what had just occurred, and then he went out after her. A few minutes later he came back in, fuming with rage, telling me he wanted me out of his house right now. Apparently she'd had told him that we'd had a big argument, and she was afraid I'd hit her.

Basically a completely fabricated accusation, but my Dad fell for it, and it went on from there. Imagine 10 more years of random incidents like that, and you've an idea what I had to put up with.

No.. I didn't keep her affairs secret. My dad had a right to know he'd been deceived, though I suspect he didn't believe me. Certainly it made no difference.

Actually looking back, that wasn't the first incident. That would have been at their wedding, when she invited her ex-mother-in-law and put her next to my dad at the top table, and my dad's mother to the far corner of the room. I've often asked what the hell they were thinking, snubbing my grandmother like that, but my father would just pass it of as a "mistake". Yeah right. That was a deliberate power-play, plain and simple.

At the time, we all assumed she was SM's mother, not her ex's mother, until my grandfather figured out who she was. He went to stand up and put things right, but my grandmother, not wanting to make a fuss, held him back. Their opinion of her was the same as mine. They quickly saw through her games. ( and my grandfather was a retired senior detective who knew lies and manipulation when he saw it).

Sadly, both grandparents have pass away, which is partly why I'm here. They were the "last witnesses" as it were, those who saw her for who she really was.

I've often wondered, and

I've often wondered, and spent a fair amount of time on psychopath / narcissist forums trying to work out if she matched the description. My gut feeling is narcissism. She seems too stable and controlled to be borderline.

You can get lost in this diagnostic stuff though, so these days I don't worry about what she is. I just want to limit the damage she can do to the family without upsetting my dad.

Hi dtzyblnd I did think long

Hi dtzyblnd

I did think long and hard about that, and decided it was the right thing to do. I told him relatively early on, shortly after my grandmother told me abut the wedding seating issue, and what she'd overheard at my mum's funeral.

Imagine your mother had just married someone, and then you found out they had a violent or abusive past. Would you stay quiet? or would you tell her? Surely any right thinking person would say something.

It's a bit of a grey area I must admit, but I still believe it was the right thing to do under the circumstances.

Did it cause a bit of friction? Maybe, but nothing in comparison to her actions. And besides, it was the truth, unlike her "gossip"

It was nasty gossip pure and

It was nasty gossip pure and simple. Comparing it to violence and abuse is really reaching for justification.

Double post again! note to

Double post again!

note to self : be patient and wait for the new page to load.

Whatever happened in your

Whatever happened in your father's wife's previous marriage is none of your business and I find it odd that you are preoccupied with it. Wanting your father to be "the dad he used to be when my mother was alive" seems like this is what it all boils down to. You want him EXACTLY as he was. Well hun, he's married, obviously happy and yes he will act differently now because life and circumstances are different.

My advice is for you to grow up and focus on your own relationships instead of the details of step moms divorce and your father and her marriage. No you don't have to have a relationship with SM but be prepared to see less of your dad too. My ss30 feels the same way about me, he would love to have daddee back "just the way things were" before he married me. DH doesn't like to go places w/out me and always wants me here when the sgrands visit.

You sound really immature, just saying.

Thanks. yes. I have to

Thanks. yes. I have to accept what I can't change.. namely my father's views on all this, but I don't have to suffer for someone else satisfaction.

I agree - we need more

I agree - we need more specifics. The definition and degree of 'disengagement' is slightly different for every one of us. I think my SD 'disengaged' from me the day I married her Father, but for her that meant being rude, disrespectful and abusive. I think my DH was like a lot of others: He wanted that warm feeling of being a family but didn't want to do all of the work that parenting requires so he expected me to take up the slack. I stupidly stepped up to the plate, offering affection, reminding him of birthdays, buying Christmas gifts, etc. The problem is, we did not have a shared history or bonding for DH's 'image' of a the 'Happy Family' to work.

You may see it as 'manipulation and games', but your stepmother might be innocently trying to satisfy your Father's wish for the 'Brady Bunch' family. So this is where you need to begin. Communicate honestly and kindly with your Father about his expectations vs. yours. All you owe your Father is to be respectful of his wife. Maybe she would like to know she doesn't have to try so hard.

"You may see it as

"You may see it as 'manipulation and games', but your stepmother might be innocently trying to satisfy your Father's wish for the 'Brady Bunch' family. So this is where you need to begin. Communicate honestly and kindly with your Father about his expectations vs. yours. All you owe your Father is to be respectful of his wife. Maybe she would like to know she doesn't have to try so hard."

That's an interesting angle. The "expectations" talk sounds like a good idea. I'll try that.

Unfortunately I can no longer respect his wife, any more than a battered wife would respect her violent husband. For years I used to give her the benefit of the doubt, assuming she just hadn't figured out the right SM role, but over time it became more and more apparent that there was more to it than this.

What I have learned, is that it's not helpful to try to explain any of this to my father. He's in total denial, even when something happens right in front of his eyes, and there seems to be nothing I can do about this.

"Unless this woman has

"Unless this woman has physically and/or emotionally terrorized you, making you fear for your life, this is an incredibly insensitive comment."

Point taken. I don't mean to say my situation is as dangerous or threatening as a battered wife's. What I mean is that she deserves the same level of respect as a violent partner. i.e. none.

Hopefully this makes it clear and I'm sorry for any offence / trigger.

"assuming she just hadn't

"assuming she just hadn't figured out the right SM role"

Just exactly what is her SM role? She didn't raise you or have any kind of mothering relationship. She is your father's wife, not really your step mother. Perhaps you just need to drop your unrealistic expectations of her and let her be.

Thanks skeeter. Personally I

Thanks skeeter.

Personally I don't see this as a competition to be won or lost. Maybe she does, but that's up to her. As I've already posted, I have always been civil with her. It's just a shame she does't understand how to be civil back.

I agree that it's not my place to stick my nose in their marriage, but equally, she has no right to try to destroy my relationship with my father, as she clearly tried to do. I'd welcomed her into the family with open arms, and she stabbed my in the back, repeatedly. That's not excusable.

You're right.. his mind seems

You're right.. his mind seems set, and trying to get him to appreciate my reasons is probably too much to hope for. And like you suggest, he may already know some of it...but be dealing with it in his own way.

I'll try to figure out the most straight forward, clear, but tactful way to respond when he brings it up again, based your's and other's suggestions, and then stop worrying about it.

Thank you.

This seems like good

This seems like good advice.

I certainly understand the husband/wife dynamic, and in my families case, yes, the wives generally have the "power". However they would use that power to the benefit of the whole family... not to try to destroy someone they see as a threat.

As for essential social situations, when we have to come together, I try my best to do what you suggest. In fact, sadly, both my father and his wife lost their remainig parent in the last couple of months, so there were two family funerals. At her father's funeral I offered my condolences, paying genuine, detailed, tribute to what a good man he was. He was an ex WW2 hero and one of the nicest people you could know.

At my dad's mother's funeral (my grandmother), she was polite to me, but nothing more. She'd obviously been spreading her poison though, as her friends made a point of blanking me in the line at the end. Some of my dad's friends, who known me all my life and also know what she's like, saw this and made a point of speaking well of me in the presence of her friends.

You right about my dad's age... that really comes to the nub of the issue. He should be enjoying a peaceful drama-free life, and for the most part he does. I just can't help feeling he'd be happier if he accepted the situation as it is.

Thankfully the next major

Thankfully the next major family event is likely to be my wedding, so there's little danger of her causing trouble there. Like all bullies, she only picks on people she can isolate.

In the meantime, yes.. lunches and coffees with my dad whilst she's enjoying a girly afternoon shopping with her daughter seem to be the best way.

are you CERTAIN she met your

are you CERTAIN she met your father when she was cheating? and even if she did, that doesnt necessarily mean she will cheat on him. is that why you dont like her? and even if she was with him when she was married, then that would make your father just as guilty unless she lied to him about her marital status.

No.. she didn't meet my

No.. she didn't meet my father when she was cheating. It's not the cheating part I have a problem with. The problem was I knew of her affairs, and she realised that I probably knew. That made me a threat.

She had her claws into my dad from the start. At my mum's funeral, my grandmother happened to be in the same room as some of her friends, and overheard them talking about how now my dad was single, he'd be a good catch, as he was quite wealthy. They didn't recognise her, and she pretended to be quite deaf, so they'd carry on. They went on to discuss how SM should step in and look after him. cook and clean for him, to slowly win him over.

My mother had been cremated less than an hour before, and already they were plotting.

I understand perfectly well

I understand perfectly well that a lot of women are gold-diggers. They're just acting on their base instincts, in the same way as a man having an affair with his secretary. It's ugly, but it happens. That doesn't make it right though.

And she was definitely not helping him mourn. People don't need "help" to mourn. Its' a natural process. She did however know that my dad was particularly vulnerable at that time. "On the rebound" as they say, and used it to her advantage.

And wanting him to be lonely? that's just crazy. There's nothing I've written or implied to suggest that. Quite the opposite in fact.

I appreciate your response, but you're projecting your own issues here.

Oh dear me. This is getting

Oh dear me. This is getting silly.

Internet Tip: People who start posts with "Brahahahahahha" are generally not being thoughtful or insightful. Childish and ignorant is a better description.

Hi tommar.. I've read a few

Hi tommar.. I've read a few more of your posts on the board, and was maybe a little harsh on you.

You did make quite a few of baseless assumptions though, and then judged me on them, hence my response. I think given the topic of the thread, you may have touched a nerve.

I do appreciate now you were trying to help.

"I understand perfectly well

"I understand perfectly well that a lot of women are gold-diggers. "

Uh.... that was NOT tommar's point. Like, AT ALL. :?

Tommar was pointing out that your dad was/is a catch. A good guy, obviously no commitment issues, able to pay his own way, etc. (Unless your dad is Hugh Heffner or something, the "gold-digger" thing just doesn't play. We're not talking some uber-rich old dude marrying an 18 year old who's just in it for the inheritance. That's a "gold digger".)

And yes, sometimes people do need help in mourning. They get "stuck", they don't know what to do next, they can't see a way OUT of grief. That's especially true for the one left behind when a long-time partner dies. From what you implied it sounds like your Dad was married to your Mom for more than half his life - you think figuring out how to live without her would be EASY? Of course he wanted help!

Finally, tommar didn't say you WANTED your Dad to be lonely. Far from it - she implied that OF COURSE you don't want your Dad to be lonely, so maybe you should take a step back and reassess here.

She had some REALLY good points, you really should go back and reread without the chip on your shoulder there.

Thank you for sharing your

Thank you for sharing your opinion. I'd ask you to read again though, this time without picking and choosing what to believe.

I do appreciate that the "wicked step mother" meme is a common one, and clearly most aren't "wicked". Some are though, so automatically assuming they must be innocent and the step-adult-child is automatically in the wrong, isn't particularly productive.

Not sure where you get the idea I didn't like her from the start. I was the one who gave the congratulatory speech at the wedding ( I didn't know about the ex mother in law until well afterwards). I was very happy for my dad that he was remarrying... until the kitchen incident.

As for staying out of her way.. that's what I do.

Question: "Not sure where you

Question: "Not sure where you get the idea I didn't like her from the start."
Answer: "She had her claws into my dad from the start"

Gotcha. See my other posts

Gotcha. See my other posts for clarification.

Thanks. but I guess we'll

Thanks. but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Please lay off the accusations though. You have no idea.

It sounds like your situation

It sounds like your situation was a rather different to mine, but again, thanks for your input.

Tommar, ..and your response

Tommar,
..and your response above is why I respect the women (and men) on this site. You got a nasty comment from OP (a misunderstanding- but nasty nonetheless)... and you are still willing to help and be objective.

I want to stand up and applaud you. I think you are awesome

Yes... a dude. Talking about

Yes... a dude. Talking about emotional stuff. Shocking eh?

"Your writing style and words

"Your writing style and words scream young, emotionally stunted mini-wife. To me."

"Whaaaaaat?! This is a dude whining like a girl?"

I'm not sure I'm the emotionally stunted one here..

crikey. a little harsh, but

crikey. a little harsh, but as you say, you think what I've written is bullshit, so fair enough. you're welcome to your opinion.

what's a crew btw?

Yes. I'm male, and honestly I

Yes. I'm male, and honestly I don't mind if you don't believe me. This is the internet after all.

I'd also like to point out, since my post seems to have been misinterpreted by some, that this is not an attack on step-mothers. It strikes me as a tough job. Harder than being step father like myself, for reasons it may be interesting to explore on another thread.

deleted double post

You live and let live. No

You live and let live. No need to tell Dad all about how there will never be a Brady Bunch in his later years. The gentleman is 75yrs old. He's a big boy now and well, so are you. You don't have to have a relationship with his wife otherthan just being civil in her presence. As she likes to play fake victim (the kitchen thing is very telling, she no more wants Brady Bunch than you do), I'll add in don't be alone with the drama queen.

When you visit your father's area, stay I a hotel. Enjoy your occasional lunch/coffee meets with your father in your area. Be sure he is welcome in your home and he can just sit I the livingroom and visit, you're glad he come and always happy to have him visit. Let him know you appreciate his efforts to come by. When you are in his area, invite his wife to dine with you and father out (suck it up, you can handle a couple hours around the dining table making small talk as long as she behaves herself).

If you are planning a wedding for yourself any time soon, be sure she is of course inviting and that she is treated as Dad's guest. If your father wasn't married and instead dating a woman you would show this person respect as Dad's guest. You don't have to honor her as a 'mother' (she's not your mother)nor does she deserve or not deserve any special treatment. She'll sit with your father and be treated civilly and with the respect any woman your father would have come as his guest at the event. You don't stick her in a corner, don't isolate her and/or chill her out. She gets the same respect as the bride's mother's guest would (whether that be the father of the bride or just mother's guest).

You want your father to be happy and have companionship in his remaining years. For whatever reasons which may not seem obvious to you, this woman makes your father happy or at least happy enough he chooses to ignore any bad traits she may have. Is she mistreating your father? Is he complaining about her to you? You don't have to like her. You don't have to play big happy family with her. You merely have to be civil to her when it may be necessary to be in her presence. Just as I would hope your father expects her to treat you. Your father loves you both. It should never come to her or me on your part nor him or me on your father's wife's part. You are not a threat to this woman, you live your own life. She should not be a threat to your relationship with your father.

What exactly is your father asking you to do and/or requiring of you that you feel you must talk to your father about your disengaging/ non-acceptance? I'm assuming something has come to the forefront to bring on this supposed need to have this discussion.

Thanks Twoviewpoints. That's

Thanks Twoviewpoints.

That's pretty much how I feel, and how I've been playing it. A few other responders have basically said the same thing.

Since I disengaged with her, my relationship with my father has been much better. We visit each other, and spend good quality time with each other.. lots of similar interests, same sense of humour, etc. Before I disengaged, we barely had any time together, and it's only by making the break that I've been able to salvage the relationship with him.

Does she mistreat him? Well, he's definitely hen-pecked, and he's a shadow of his normal self when she's around, but he says he's happy and that's good enough for me.

It only becomes a problem when he brings up the issue.. "I wish you and SM would get on" type of thing. Well yes, I wish we could get on too, but after ten years of trying, it's just not happening. It takes two to tango, and unfortunately "getting on" with her isn't that simple. She seems to need to be worshipped. Anything less isn't good enough for her. Meet halfway? not a chance. It's her way or nothing. And that's not just my opinion but that of a lot of people who know her.

What brought this to the forefront? Just the latest "why can't you get on?" I guess. I point out to him how much better things have been since I disengaged... no more fights, no more crazy-making... it's just not the big happy family he hoped for.

I've had an crazy making

I've had an crazy making brother in law come in and relentlessly accuse me as he tried to separate me from a sibling. That's what abusive people do. Unfortunately some people believe the person who complains the most. The saddest part is that people like this do succeed in damaging the relationship.

I think you're doing the best you can. If you have to be around her, simply be ginger and polite, otherwise disengage. If you give any indication of rejection she will probably double her efforts. Are you sure it's not prudent to tell your dad at least of the kitchen incident?

Thanks Jennaspace, and sorry

Thanks Jennaspace, and sorry to hear about your brother in law. Hopefully the past-tense means you've managed to get through it?

He knows about the kitchen incident. He was there. At the moment she yelped and ran out, my father and I were near the door to the hall and she was across the other side of the kitchen, about 15 feet away, with a large counter in between us. Even ignoring the fact that I'm one of the least violent people you could meet ( the only time I ever punched anyone was a schoolyard scrap when I was around 12, which I lost), it was blatantly obvious that I was nowhere near her when she ran out.

As I understand it, she didn't tell my father "he was going to hit me". She said "I thought he was going to hit me". Despite pointing out how ridiculous this was, she obviously had managed to convince him.

Cue two years of misery, until one day I was visiting my grandparents ( dad's parents) and saw my grandmother was upset. I asked what was wrong and it turned out SM had been trying to push her away too. That's when Iearned about the wedding seating issue, and realised that I wasn't the only one she was victimising. SM would make it so uncomfortable for my grandmother that even she wouldn't visit my father at their house.

I really persisted with BIL

I really persisted with BIL because I wanted to be by my sister but as time went on I've had to distance myself from them. After dealing with crap from some of my DHs family, I just feel done with this behavior.

Given his loyalty despite the kitchen incident, I wonder if your dad's brain might be somewhat impaired in it's reasoning. Some elderly can be pretty susceptible to swindlers as they get older. If she was swooping in for the cash, which happens, it would make perfect sense that she wants to divide and conquer. You must be so sad to lose the ability to be with him freely at this stage of life . Hopefully, you can continue to have quality time together and capitalize on the limited visits you can manage to eek out.

You also may want to consider a thorough background check on SM.

Hope it gets better for you!

As most of us are the sm's I

As most of us are the sm's I think it is easy for us to get a bit defensive. However, there really are some crazy people in this world. None of my inlaws liked me from the beginning and- my sil especially would make up stories about me. She would say or do rude things to me while we were alone. I would be baffled- so I would assume it was a misunderstanding. Until the next day she'd call my dh and tell him that I did to her exactly the thing she actually did to me. Even then, it took several times of this occurring before I finally grasped that she was nuts.

As time went on I realized that everyone in dh's immediate family was dysfunctional. It would be easy for those of you here to assume that maybe I'm the one with the actual problem if all 4 of them had issues with me. I did try and talk to dh about it- just occasionally suggesting maybe there were some issues with his family and he would become very defensive. I knew they were hateful people that took advantage of him but I also recognized that he could not hear that from me. I think that is what op was trying to do- convince his father of sm's evilness. You are just not the right person to do it. If he ever sees this he will need to find out on his own. When he brings up you all spending time together, I'd just simply make excuses about having other commitments. If he directly addresses the discord between the two Id simply say the only thing that is important to me is that she makes you happy.

Then I wouLd avoid her at all costs. If there is an occasion in which you all have to be together Id be polite as I would be to a stranger and make sure I was never alone with her.

This is the way my SD was

This is the way my SD was from the time DH and I got married to 4 years ago when DH finally witnessed the SD I had been dealing with for over 20 years. I was constantly accused of not making SD comfortable in my home, when in reality SD was slamming doors in my face, and being verbally and emotionally abusive to me. Even though I told him I had witnesses, HE hadn't actually seen it himself, and he would justify her behavior. It was not very difficult see that my SD is a narcissist as your SM is. They come in all sorts of 'packages': SDs, Mothers, Fathers, etc., even SMs. As 'hismineandours' advised, your Dad will have to see it for himself. Next time your Dad says he wants you to be closer to your SM say are working on it and will need a bit of time, but it is good to see he is happy in marriage.

" Even though I told him I

" Even though I told him I had witnesses, HE hadn't actually seen it himself, and he would justify her behavior. "

That's a very familiar situation. To be honest I thought he'd wake up when he saw it for himself, but even then he goes into denial... a kind of determined fence-sitting.

Good advice. Knowing exactly what to say in this situation is difficult, and the "working on it" idea seems a good one. It may be kicking the can further down the road, but I guess that's been his strategy too so maybe it's the right thing to say.

Thanks hismineandours. Yes,

Thanks hismineandours.

Yes, I realise most member's here are SMs, but hopefully I made it clear enough that was referring to a specific person, not all step mothers.

Sorry to hear about you own situation. 4 on 1? that must be hard.

That's a good point about me not being the right person to get my father to recognise the issue. I think you're right. I probably need to be accepting my myself that he may never understand. I gave up trying to convince him of his wife's issues a long time ago. Clearly that was going to get nowhere. but I had hoped to at least to get him to understand that there have to be some boundaries, and these would have to be discussed and understood if further conflict is to be avoided.

Yes.. making excuses and fabricating other commitments could be the best option. I don't fee particularly comfortable lying to him, but I guess it's a white lie to avoid conflict, so possibly for the best.

Myusername, it is not for you

Myusername, it is not for you to determine the suitability of your fathers spouse- nor can he decide yours. Have the relationship you want/or dont want, with your SM and leave it at that. Stop trying to influence your father, telling him her cheating history,trying to get him to "see".

Children have no say in who their parent chooses to love.

Just like your father has no right to dictate YOUR relationship or lack of with his wife. He can make wistful comments about an imaginary possible friendship between you and SM all he likes- you can reply "Yes, that would have been easier Dad but Im glad you have someone in your life". And leave it at that.

And Im saying this as both a stepkid and a stepgirlfriend (unmarried but BF has a child)

PS as this is a site for stepparents to vent about how crappy their steplife is, Im sure you understand that this might not be the best place for you to vent about your step mother. Having said that I am very impressed with the objectivity of the responders here.

Hi Lady, Yes, there have been

Hi Lady,

Yes, there have been some great responses, and some good suggestions from you and others as to how to word things with my father.

Unfortunately there aren't any forums I could find for "adult step-children" ( a counter-productive label if ever there was one), so I thought I'd post here. As a step / God parent myself, I decided I qualified!

thanks!

I am stuck on your toxic and

I am stuck on your toxic and manipulative SM. Were I you I would make the total destruction of that bitch one of my primary life goals. I would bare her ass publically, professionally, legally, and in a manner that your dad cannot ignore, tolerate, or defend.

Grrrr!!!!!!

That's I how used to feel

That's I how used to feel Rags. Particularly once I discovered she'd done the same to my grandmother.

I didn't of course. That would be too much for my father to take, and besides.. why stoop to her level? The best revenge, as they say, is living well....and that's what I'm doing.

Yes, living well is the best

Yes, living well is the best revenge. But the icing on that cake is rubbing the noses of the toxic opposition in the steaming pile of excrement that they try to sell to the world. That adds another level of enjoyment and satisfaction to living well. }:)

double post

You really do have issue with

You really do have issue with me don't you? Relax. all this hate isn't good for your health.

.

Great reply and advice. "But

Great reply and advice.

"But I have peace, and that is peace I didn't have when I was willing to keep listening to my father insist that we all be family, that she has a huge heart, and she doesn't mean what she says. I believe the last time he told me that, I firmly let him know that I accept HIS belief in that argument, but he was not going to influence mine and I was done hearing it."

Brilliant! That's exactly where I need to get to. I hadn't thought of wording it like that. That seem very reasonable.

Thank you!

"I firmly let him know that I

"I firmly let him know that I accept HIS belief in that argument, but he was not going to influence mine and I was done hearing it." THIS is a wonderful answer to what you have been pondering over. No lies, done. Then you will be able to let go and live your life in happiness. I DO think you are a good person but like some of the others who have posted I have a problem with you trying to prove to your Dad that his wife was having affairs. If these affairs occurred prior to her marriage to your Father, a lot of us are in the same boat. I was single for 10 years prior to marrying DH. It is not SD's business what I did in those 10 years and I would not be too happy with her if she hashed all of that up. From what you have written, it does sound like your SM has some issues. If you can not get beyond them, how about some counseling to help?

Yep.. it is a wonderful

Yep.. it is a wonderful answer.

As for the affairs thing. I see a lot of people are leaping to conclusions without knowing the situation. That's not their fault but mine, for not being clear, so let me explain.

She cleaned out her previous husband in the divorce courts, based on an affair he had with a work colleague. The thing is, she'd been having multiple affairs prior to this, but was better at hiding them. She was able to represent herself as the totally innocent party. She made this claim under oath, and therefore committed perjury, and "obtaining money by deception", more commonly know as fraud.

At the time of the kitchen incident, I wasn't aware of any of this, but she knew that I'd been dating a girl who happened to be the daughter of the woman who used to cover for her. She must have been worried that I'd discover the truth, hence the kitchen incident and her campaign to discredit me before I said anything.

She is a criminal, and a con-woman, and had I been a less reasonable person, I had all the evidence I needed to have her arrested and put away for 6 months. Instead, I decided the best thing was was to warn my father.

Others may disagree, but there is no doubt whatsoever that I did the right thing.

It is a bit too much self

It is a bit too much self justification isn't it? I didn't intend that. My post wasn't meant to be about her at all, but how to settle / word things with my father. People wanted more specifics, and as it went on, it turned into an amateur crowd-sourced Judge Judy affair! Thst's OK though, that's part of the fun of these forums

Yup.. I think we can draw this to a close. We all made it through in one piece, despite disagreement.

Some great advice though from lots of posters. I will take it all on board ,including the bits I disagree with, as they help my understand what could be my father's viewpoint on this.

Thanks everyone!

Wow, you are really deep in

Wow, you are really deep in your father's wife's business. Really trying to undermine her and "warn" your father. There's a term for this and it's called "stalking." She's the one who should have you put away. Time to step out of THEIR relationship and THEIR business. Place your nose firmly in your own business and focus on your upcoming marriage.

I'm not trying to be mean just realistic with you. You have to live YOUR life as an adult. Your father is remarried, you will always be his son and now it's time to grow up, act like one and make him proud of you by moving forward. Also consider you mother, not sure of your beliefs but don't you want her to be proud of your decisions if she's watching over you? Women from her time wanted their husbands to remarry and be happy. Often women would suggest a certain woman to take over for them after they had passed on. I had an aunt who before she died made her husband promise to remarry, he said he would and had already chose her best friend. Sounds weird I know but they were all fine with it.

Your SM is not perfect, neither are you. Welcome to the human race! Grow up, you may gain some sympathy by complaining to anyone who will listen about your "evil gold digging SM" but mostly you're just embarrassing yourself.

Perfect response, and poster,

Perfect response, and poster, this is the way you should handle it. There is no "getting someone to accept" your disengagement, there is simply disengagement. You only control you.

lol.. sadly that's probably

lol.. sadly that's probably true!

The best thing to do is

The best thing to do is accept those things we cannot change....Your father is a 75 year old man. He is an adult...that like the rest of us can choose for himself. He has done that...regardless of the motives...Just like you are an adult and make your own life choices. You choose to disengage from sm whom you have issues with because of her choices in life...(including your father)...

Many of us have the same issues with our s kids...only in reverse...We don't get along with their personalities, and sometimes their issues or baggage can tend to overstep into the arena of our marriages...I think the best thing to do is respect and make clear the necessary boundary lines that need to exist to have as much peace as possible. Your father will always be in the middle because He is in the middle...a situation created by his personal choices in life...

Just be the best version of yourself that you can be and face the reality that your dad has married again...and what that means is..He and his wife are now one...If you hurt her...you indirectly hurt him...that's the way it is. If you try to divide them...that will totally backfire and you will make things worse for yourself and him....that is the way it is. A married couple are at the top of the family structure...then the children follow...that is the way it is....you do not have to like it...but you do need to respect the family structure and the way it was designed to operate...

I get it she is not your mother, or your friend, and you do not even like her...unfortunate...but, she is his wife...You are an adult now...it is time to individualize and become your own person...the fruit of where you are going with this is division and strife...that is the way it is...Your battle is not with her...your struggle is with the family structure and the way it has been designed by something bigger than you...you are placated with how you define things and the conclusions you come to regarding the information you have gathered...

I don;t know this woman from adam...you have certainly ruined her credibility to those who have taken everything you have said as being objective. Maybe she is a snake. but she is your father's choice...and she can make your life a living hell if you don't handle this wisely. Soundls like she had fear of exposure and you took care of that by exposing what you thought to your father. Did it work? I can't say I would have done any different if someone were after my father with false motives...just to watch his back I guess...But that did not help the situation out by the sounds of it, and now there will probably be reprocations to your choice of action...She probably took it as an attack...and her guard is up and she may get proactive with that...Can you blame her? The last thing you want to do is get into a choose her or me war...welcome to step hell if you choose to go there....

Some kind of unspoken truce would be your best bet...for your father's sake...not because someone is trying to manipulate you or make you like her, or anything...moreso because it is the wise thing to do...Observe...but do not emotionally absorb at this point...We all have relatives that we have to "tolerate" for the sake of peace...Weigh the issue...is it worth losing your dad over? the stake's are high and you have a lot more to lose than she does...(and trust me she knows this more than you give her credit for)...

It may not be fair in your opinion...but life isn't fair...especially in the step world where we all come from brokeness, and many of us have pain, fear, and hurts that pre-exist and effect our present day realities with each other...Sometimes a little grace can go a long way...and remember...When a child chooses to dishonor a parent or a step parent...it tells me nothing about the parent, or the step-parent...it speaks volumes about the one doing the dishonoring...She may not deserve it..yo may not "have to"...but if you can rise above the politics and choose two things...How important to you want this issue to be in your life (give it a number)...you choose...

And what type of person do you want to be...you choose...When you have lost the ability to choose your own mindset...you have lost your freedom to choose...therefore rendering yourself powerless in this situation regarding your own personhood and your choice of response to this circumstance...

For example, I do not like our present day leadership in this country...I do not agree with him...i don't respect him as a person...but I do respect the seat of authority that He sits in...I cannot do anything about the decisions He is making while He sits in that seat...except pray for wisdom...It is what it is...but who that makes me is irrelevant to my personhood...My feelings, how I choose to respond to his decisions...He will have to reap the consequences for that...but..I do get to choose if I am going to allow it to ruin my life...my relationships with others...how i choose to respond is what I am getting at...If i get angry and he becomes my focus at every family event...how he talks to me...if he ignores me...ect..then I have given him wwwaayyyy too much real estate in my head and I need to take that ground back...for my own sanity. Because the last thing you want to do is end up and the end of this journey called life with nothing but regret...Regret about how much time you wasted or gave to this one person out of your precious life.. live the best you can...peace

Thanks peacemaker. Your

Thanks peacemaker. Your username suits you! Lots of wise words there, I'd come to some of the same conclusions myself over the years, but not with the clarity of your post.

I've done what I can. Some things I would probably do differently now, but that's all in the past and I've no real regrets. I did my best. Time to reclaim my headspace.

Thank you, and thanks to everyone else who's contributed.

One more thing...if your dad

One more thing...if your dad acts like he is deaf when it comes to hearing you and your position...Just change the subject when He tries to "Push the issue"...after a while he will get the picture....

And yes, we all could say we would do things differently...I guess that's why they say live..learn...and live some more....peace

I disengaged from my SM

I disengaged from my SM completely when I was a young teenager. She's bipolar, alcoholic.....the stories I could tell! I saw my a Dad elsewhere and he accepted it. He knew she was the problem and tried to leave her a few times but didn't want to part with his money. She apologized years later and I saw her on my terms. But the minute she acted up she was put in get place. My dad died 3 years ago, she fell apart and ended in in psych ward and now assisted living. She's better now as her meds monitored. I maintain contact with her mostly for my dad's same and she really has no one now. I learned to forgive and to ger credit, she owned her mistakes. Good luck !

I agree you should disengage

I agree you should disengage as its not appropriate to be engaged to another mans wife espeacily your fathers. why are you having private conversations alone with a married woman.

Your SM sounds like a piece

Your SM sounds like a piece of work. Does your fiance know your relationship with her? I ask this because SM may go after that relationship. I'll probably get flamed for saying that, but crazy does what crazy does. Watched youngest SD sabotage her brother's relationships just because she could. She doesn't like her brother that much to be possessive, she just couldn't stand to see him happy.

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Disengaging from father's wife... how to get him to accept it?