Discussing our marriage issues with his kids
Hello All. I've just discovered this forum and really need to offload. I've been married for 6 years and my husband and I have had a lot of challenges in that time. My husband has 4 adult children from his previous marriage and has only ever introduced me to one of them - his son who is now 30. He blames his ex for this. I've never met any of his other kids or siblings for that matter.
We were going through an exceptionally bad time over Christmas and the new year and my husband had made the decision to leave the marriage - long story short, he didn't but I've discovered that he's been discussing our issues and problems with his son with his son's wife around who I've met once briefly but not since. They recently had a baby (around 5months old) who I've never seen.
I was extremely upset that my husband's been talking about our private affairs with his kids especially as he's never made the effort to encourage a relationship between me and them. We were planning a holiday after lockdown and he says his son, wife and baby are coming too because they've asked to.
My issue is that the kids barely know me, my husband's filled their heads with all kinds of negativity about me through sharing a one sided perspective about our marriage issues (I find this quite humiliating), and he doesn't understand my discomfort at potentially going on holiday with them when goodness knows what their impression of me is.
Am I being over sensitive and selfish for feeling upset and awkward about this?
IMO, parents should not talk
IMO, parents should not talk about their personal marital issues with their children, even if they are adults. The larger issue is, though - why haven't you met anyone in his family? That's highly unusual.
tog redux, I know and not
tog redux, I know and not meeting his family was a huge source of conflict in the first few years of our marriage as I couldn't understand it. His reasoning was that they were against our marriage and had sided with his ex wife and so were not interested in a relationship with me. He said it was to 'protect me' whatever that means and in the end I just let it go. He still visits them and maintains a relationship with them which is difficult at times as I'm not included. But it seems like the pattern is repeating now with his kids but the sharing of relationship issues adds insult to injury.
I really feel like the outsider but he doesn't see the problem and says I'm always arguing over irrelevant/insignificant stuff. I'm not always doing that but when something bothers me I will express it
He is not trying to "protect"
He is not trying to "protect" you. He is trying to protect himself. Someone here once said that for most men, their main concern is their own comfort. Given that, when it comes to step-situations, a lot of men will do what is comfortable for them at any given moment (God forbid that their kids or ex- even remotely get their feathers ruffled) vs. giving much thought as to how this will play out in the future AND without giving any kind of thought as to how it will impact others, especially and including their own spouse. Doing what is comfortable for them too often translates into taking the easy way out--at the moment.
This is what your DH has done. Rather than fully appreciate you and treat you like a wife from the get go, he has allowed them to think that you are, basically, a piece on the side that has to be kept hidden. In other words, he has allowed them to think that you are not a part of their dad's real life and inconsequential. Also, him discussing his maritial issues with them further feeds into this. He did this; he permitted this. It doesn't matter if they were against your marriage or not. He should have been proud to have you as his wife and show you off.
The decisions you make regarding your marriage are up to you. But, no one wants to just be an asterisk in the life of someone they love and someone who supposedly loves them. You are not out of line in your thinking at all.
Idvilen, thank you for your
Idvilen, thank you for your response. It makes a lot of sense - it's not always so easy to see when you're in it. I think I've been too accepting and accommodating
I agree with Idvilen - he's
I agree with Idvilen - he's trying to have his cake and eat it, too: get remarried, but pretend he hasn't with his ex-wife, family and children. So he goes to family events with his family, his ex-wife and his kids and you are left out?
I'm questioning whether he's actually divorced or you are the side piece. At the very least, you are being treated like a dirty little secret and that's not okay. I agree, you have been too accepting and accommodating. Do you have insight into why that is? For most people, this would be totally unacceptable.
Yes I'm left out and I'm
Yes I'm left out and I'm feeling quite stupid reading all these comments because of course, they're right. I just really wanted it to work second time round so maybe I took 'compromising' to a crazy level. I think he knows that my worst fear is the marriage failing and he's taken advantage of that and I've let him.
I will be more firm now and see what happens. Thanks for your insights.
Oh yes, "...when you're in it"
As many of us can attest to, it was something foreign to most of us. I think it's safe to say when most of us got married, we envisioned our husbands being "there" for us, having our backs and treating us with the highest respect, and vice versa. When we are "in it" it's very tough to see, because much of it is kept hidden from us, just like the family and other sk's, and yes, his conversations about you to his ss and daughet in law. I have experienced this first hand, only in the last couple of years. I did note that he confided in SD waaaayyy to much at one point. I didn't realize or really know what enmeshment , divorced daddy guilt, daughter wives and triangulation looked like or felt like. I had only heard of most of these in theory. Because I had never experienced it myself (until recently) I was not exactly sure what was going on. The gaslighting ("They really like you. They always ask how you're doing." Which means he wants to keep doing it, having private conversations about me and appeases me so that he can still do it undetected.) And of course when you point out their rudeness, or the fact normal, healthy husbands do not run to their adult offspring to gripe about their wives, who more times that not, are towing the line and then some as a spouse, you become the perceived "enemy" in this sick enmeshment game. This seems to further feed their dependence and co-dependence upon each other. In a sick sort of way, this is how they "bond" and how daddy proves his loyalty to his offspring; a way to ease his guilt for leaving bio mom with these kids. So it's a never ending cycle, until the wife learns what's going on. Please know it is NOT YOU, and you are NOT OVER REACTING. These men only want to be comfortable. For many years I sacrificed my own happiness and well-being so HE COULD BE HAPPY. Kids/grandkids could be ugly, snide and passive aggressive, but daddy had his rose colored love goggles on and couldn't see what was right in front of his face.
I wish I had answers for you, however I am in a similar boat and have learned to shut it down and disengage. I have blocked brats on ALL LEVELS. I refuse to be in their presence, or contact them no matter what happens. Self-preservation is priceless, and if your husband isn't going to be the face and the mouthpiece or advocate for you and your marriage, YOU MUST BE.
Don't be afraid to put your needs first because these men certainly don't hesitate to put their wives in the backseat to their offspring. It's all derived from guilt and trying to prove where their loyalties lie.
Hugs to you!
Miss Texas, thank you for
Miss Texas, thank you for this detailed comment. I've read it a few times as I'd never considered it from this perspective or heard of daddy guilt or enmeshment. But this has given me a lot to reflect on and I think I need to be stronger in myself and hold firmer boundaries around these issues I'm facing and hold my ground instead of doubting myself... even if it does lead to a much dreaded divorce!
So ss and his wife invited themselves on what was meant to
be a husband and wife trip??
my ss was 20.5 and demanded his dad take him and his sisters from bio mum on a holiday (me and my 2 toddlers not included) during our 3rd wedding anniversary weekend.
hubby suggested, no actually told me to book a hotel and airfares and just go.... know what he got??
”NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!” Followed by how he was treating me and my kids to a trip to my country alone indefinitely to destress and hubby can torture himself with skids
Shamds, yes I suppose that's
Shamds, yes I suppose that's exactly what SS did. But when I tried to talk to my husband about it, he said I could stay at home if I didn't want to come and that I was jealous of his time with his kids!! Which is total nonsense- it's not that, it's just that my husband has no boundaries or common sense.
And it wasn't even the self-invite I suppose - it was the fact that the relationship with SS and his wife is virtually non-existent and also that husband's been sharing private details about our argument with them. I haven't had a chance to say no as he's said I'm not coming. I just feel drained.
Tokyo, you are not being
Tokyo, you are not being treated as a wife. You are being treated as an unpaid servant, lackey, babysitter (as I'm sure you would have been expected to watch the step-grandkid on this trip while they all go play "happy family"), concubine, etc. Again, this is totally up to you, but might I suggest that while they are on this trip, you see a lawyer and pack up your things? Strike first. He won't expect it. Like far too many husbands in step-situations, he thinks he is so-o-o-o valuable, in charge, and has you gaslighted to his way of thinking. Show him he's wrong in a way he'll get it. Because, apparently nothing else has worked.
Rags here often says
if your partner respects you, they will discuss first anything with you that involves your time and presence or comfort. You are the afterthought here and never should be.
i put a stop to this madness 1.5 yrs ago and i do not budge...
Of course you feel drained
because he's projecting onto you. You can STAY HOME?? Please! What kind of husband says that? I would let him know that is not an option. Either you present as a couple at ALL TIMES or not at all. There is no part-time husband or wife. You're either ALL IN, or you're not.
I hope you get some resolve before this is set to happen. When is the trip to take place? Is it still possible given the Covid mess?
The trip is supposed to
The trip is supposed to happening later in the year - nothing is definite yet because of Covid. I spoke to him today and he says I've made a mountain out of a molehill as they may not even be able to come... and that I'm evil and manipulative for creating so much bad feeling. And that what's he supposed to say to his son if he has self-invited himself and also that it's a perfect opportunity for me to build a relationship with them instead of complaining about it. He sees nothing wrong nor does he see that it's all on his terms- include me when it suits and leave me out when it doesn't
If I had a dime for every
If I had a dime for every time my husband would say "You are making this a big deal" or "Thats you, you are acting crazy" I could have bought my own island!
Gaslighting, crazy making. Anytime you bring something up that bothers you, you are made to feel like its on you for making it such a "big deal" when in reality all you want is to have your feelings acknowledged. He wants to play both ways, appease his kids and then shut you down so you don't make waves.
I used to say things to my husband about how my SD45 would treat me and I never had him acknowledge my frustration, it was always twisted and turned around like I was the one who was "nuts."
I was married for 30 years, my husband passed in November and as you can see, sometimes the pain is still there. My advice, this dynamic never changes, you either suck it up, shove it under the carpet, or you can leave. I sucked it up and often wonder if that was the right thing to do. I spent a lot of years feeling very frustrated.
The only saving grace, I have not heard from any of his skids since he passed, except once when the youngest was asking about money. I never thought I would say this, but its a huge relief to not have to talk to them and also suck up the dysfunctional, enabling and codependent dynamic that occurred between my husband and his kids.
Momofoneboy thank you for
Momofoneboy thank you for sharing this. I appreciate your insights and wisdom and I'm sorry to hear about your experience and the challenges you've faced. I expect it would be even harder without a space like this to share and discuss stuff. I've gained so much from all the wonderful people who have shared their thoughts and perspective. It's really given me strength and a whole new perspective so I'm very grateful.
Welcome to the site!
I have 2 bio daughters in their 30s and I have never, and would never, discuss personal marriage issues with either of them. Sure, I've discussed the SDs and their dreadful mother with them, but I don't think it's appropriate to tell them our private marital business.
With regard to the holiday - I don't think it's right for your husband to have said his son, plus wife and baby, can come on holiday with you unless he'd discussed it with you first and got your agreement. All the more important not to do this when you've been going through marital problems recently and could have used the time away, alone and in a relaxed setting to hopefully address things together.
It is very odd that in 6 yrs you've not been introduced to some of his adult kids.
Kes, thanks for your
Kes, thanks for your perspective. I agree. I think I've been so keen to make this marriage work - not wanting to be divorced a second time - that I've let a lot of things slide that in hindsight I perhaps shouldn't have. But my husband is very stubborn and often doesn't see my point of view
Seeing your viewpoint would be an admission on his behalf that
he is a failed parent who has decided to be a buddy instead of a daddy. Also, admission means change must happen in order to improve the situation and why on earth would he do that when he's got what he wants?
For the life of me I cannot figure out why some of these men ever remarry and bring people into their dysfunctional zoo. They need to wear "warning" labels. Many don't need or want wives and would do much better to have "Visiting Angels" come out 2-3 times weekly for companionship and to cook and clean. Many do not want to set their wives up to be secure once they pass and expect the wife to figure out how she will survive after his death. The brats get first consideration, no matter if you are "good as gold", the enmeshed daddy will pick his brats everytime, through not fault of your own. These offspring have learned not only to manipulate, but to guilt daddy into getting their way every time, and it works like a charm. Sadly, we as their wives are on the receiving end of this outcome.When wives share how hurt they are over things that have transpired, daddy pretends to not see it, or accuse you of being crazy, or calls bs on it etc. ZERO EMPATHY. Not what many of us thought we were signing up for.
Hey!? Simply substitute the
Hey!? Simply substitute the word “guilty dad” for “elderly” and it is as good as gold: “Visiting Angels provides companion care and personal care services. Our home care services are designed to provide assistance with those activities that guilty dads need help with in order to be able to stay at home [and entertain their children].”
Little did any of us realize that we are not stepmothers but rather Visiting Angels!
I would rather be divorced a
I would rather be divorced a second time than be "married" to this guy. This is not my idea of a marriage.
Hm, that's harsh but yes, it
Hm, that's harsh but yes, it's not really a marriage.
I didn't mean to sound harsh
I didn't mean to sound harsh (that was not my intent, at all), I just mean that he doesn't treat you as a wife, as you deserve to be treated.
Sorry!
No it's fine - I needed to
No it's fine - I needed to hear it
I think most of us on this
I think most of us on this site have dealt with our husbands sharing marital information with their brats at some point, Usually, because that is what it takes to stay in their royal family "good graces." It makes them number one, they need continual reassurance given the pathetic breeding and insane jealousy part of the family DNA.
However, most husbands do stop or at least reduce their wife discussions upon seeing the wife backing out of the marriage. If he plans to leave the marriage, open the door, but first help him pack the suitcase. This is not place for the weak of heart anyway (he ain't all that); and he and his 4 brats can go haunt some other poor woman; trust me they will.
Protect yourself lady!
CANYOUHELP, you are spot on, and these daddies will play their
sick games and never suspect we wives will catch on, but when we do, it's game over. The marital dynamic cannot remain the same as it once was. All we can do is rebuild from today. The love we once felt is dead and gone. Given the new information and circumstances, our "normal" becomes anything but.
You've got that right. A weak person could never survive this mental circus mess.
It seems like he doesn't care
It seems like he doesn't care what you think and is just doing whatever he wants. So he won't introduce you to his family in order to protect you yet he fills their heads with nasty stuff about you and then insists on having you meet his son and his wife after he's filled their heads with negativity about you? He's not protecting you at all. What he's being is a selfish jackass. I would not go along with his plans. Stand up for yourself and make your needs be known.
You DH does not respect you
No he should not be discussing your marriage with his kids. He also should not make plans to go away with out your input. Where to go, how long, who paying for the vacation. And you are going, not you can do what you want.
Invite a family member or
Invite a family member or friend to join you on this vacation. That sends the message to DH that you will not tolerate he and his children ganging up on you. Make sure your ally is fully up to speed on the marital issues so if things get shitty, your team has all of the facts.
If DH takes exception, inform him that if he does not take his children, your friend/family member won't be there either.
Inviting family/ friends!!
This is a great idea and I will keep it in mind
I'm all for alternative
I'm all for alternative setups for blended families, if it works for all, but this is obviously not working for you. It's a strange situation.
For some reason, I'm suspicious of your husband. Why is he hiding so much of his life away from you? Do you ever go to family weddings, funerals, parties with him; or are you banished to the home for his skids to attend?
Hmm, I don't think this is
Hmm, I don't think this is the case here, but what you say above reminds me of an actual case I just saw on the telly, where this man was able to "trick" his wife for years into thinking that they were married, when in reality he already had a wife. Apparently, he and his "fake wife" went out with his sister and brother-in-law (BIL) quite a bit too, and even had his kids over on rare occasion. The true husband and wife, BM and bio-dad, agreed to seperate but not divorce years ago, and the husband just simply passed off his "fake wife" as more-or-less his mistress who was OK with everything. It was only several years down the road when the BIL blurted out something along the lines of, "She's so nice. Why don't you divorce ___[real wife] and marry ___[fake wife] instead." The fake wife was absolutely floored! They even had a kid together too at the time. It can happen. . . .
I don't think this is the
I don't think this is the case. I just don't think he has the balls to say this is my wife and she's fully part of my life whether you like it or not.
No I've never been to family
No I've never been to family weddings - his son/ relatives/ nieces or nephews. I've been to one or two of friends only where we knew that there wouldn't be family members
You already know this isn't
You already know this isn't normal, because it isn't. It really doesn't matter why, it's not going to change anything. The only question you need answered is the one you have to ask yourself. Do you deserve better? Is this how you want to spend the rest of your life?
If you do not value yourself
If you do not value yourself enough to be front and center, he won't value you as he should value his wife.
Take care of you.
Thank you everyone for your
Thank you everyone for your responses. I really appreciate you taking the time to answer and help out x