Cosign

WaffleZone's picture

Don't do it!

SD24 presented the grand idea to DH that we cosign for a brand new car. I flat out refused. DH took offense to that. I entertained the idea on the condition that SD provided us with various financial documents in an attempt to open DH eyes to the obvious doom he was getting US into. DH and I agreed to a list of documents SD needed to provide before a cosign decision would be made. SD didn't produce any documents and DH cosigned a 7-year loan. I was livid!

Now, 1 year later, SD didn't make her July payment, NSF. DH paid it to keep his credit in good standing. We received a call this week from the doctor's office that performed SD nose surgery. SD hasn't been paying her bill and they are looking for her. SD has been avoiding us for 4 months and I suspect it has something to do with the car. SD and DH are not speaking because of all the plans SD has cancelled with him in the last 4 months. DH wants to go see the car, talk to SD, and take the car tomorrow.

I just want to scream, "I TOLD YOU SO." He acts like I shouldn't be pissed about this. If I voice anything, I'm wrong. If I'm silent about it, I'm wrong. Yet he wants me to go with him because he doesn't trust SD. What!! Why would you commit to such a loan if you don't trust somebody. This just upsets me more!

I don't want to be witness to SD crying and DH giving in. I'm tired of all the stress at home. He's so strong at home with me but wilts when it comes to confronting SD. I've lost my patience with this situation and I'm losing respect for DH.

I don't want any involvement with this mess. Everytime I try to start the disengagement process, I get sucked back in.

Aeron's picture

What difference does he think its going to make to have you there? Do you somehow happen to have Wonder Woman's lasso of truth? Or does your presence make her a better person? I'd tell him that he didn't need me or my input to freaking co-sign, he shouldn't need me for this either.

Dumbass. I wouldn't be saying I told you so. Sorry he's such a moron.

WaffleZone's picture

Believe me, I want to tell him to deal with this himself for the reasons you stated. He doesn't trust her because he doesn't "really" know her and he's afraid she might be as spiteful as his ex. SD "decided" to allow us in her life after her and BM had a falling out about 5 years ago. DH and I have argued so much these past 5 years over him being a pushover and her being irresponsible.

hereiam's picture

He sure trusted her enough to co-sign that loan.

I am a bitch so I would go just to make sure he takes the car back and that he doesn't commit to co-signing a frickin' mortgage application or something.

And I would definitely take that car back.

WaffleZone's picture

I have no doubt there will be boohooing along with a major guilt trip by SD. I am so tempted to just drop him off and leave! He better do something because I'm sick of hearing him bitch about it.

WaffleZone's picture

This night just keeps getting better. DH is taking his anger for SD out on me. He just can't figure out why I seem unhappy and now all of a sudden our relationship is "dull" and "we don't do anything fun." He picks tonight to discuss all the dreams he has been talking about for years. That's right, it's just talk. I'm so sick of "talking" about doing things. I'm a doer and he's a talker. He talks about installing a hot tub, painting the inside of the house, installing wood flooring, etc. He doesn't understand the financial impact this may cause. How the heck can we afford to do these things if we are taking over a car loan for the next six years? He's all over the place tonight! Acting like money isn't a big deal. He seems to be trying to minimize the real issue. Of course, we can't discuss that because he's being a total a$$ right now.

WaffleZone's picture

I agree, it would be a good lesson but his credit affects both of us financially. Our insurance rates will increase, among other things, if his credit tanks.

DH read all the problems consigning could cause because I made sure he knew what he was getting himself into. There's no excuse for him to act like he doesn't know.

He has this need to make SD happy. I can understand it to a point. Their relationship is fresh. He's trying to make up for lost time, Disney dad complex.

It's time to wake the hell up! Five years is enough time to see that somebody isn't being honest or responsible.

Aeron's picture

I get that he doesn't trust her for whatever reason. I just don't get why having you there makes it any better for him. It's not like you trust her. It's not like he took your advise before when you told him it was a stupid thing to do to cosign. Just don't get how you being there impacts the him not trusting her bit.... I think it's total utter BS and would tell him so.

Youdon't trust her? Good me either. We're on the same page, why do I need to be there? She's going to be spiteful? What does that mean? She's going to accuse him of assault and he needs a witness? She's going to say mean things and hurt his delicate fee fees?

Tell him to suck it up and deal with the mess He made. Asshole.

WaffleZone's picture

I don't trust her one bit!

There are 3 reasons I can see: 1) He wants moral support. 2) He wants a witness if things go south. 3) He needs a ride there so he can drive this car back home and not leave our vehicle there.

None of which I'm happy about.

peacemaker's picture

My dh did the same thing to me when we first got married...a year later I ended up with a stupid car that I did not want...then we finally sold it..but it was the beginning of the decision to make sure we were, from that point on, in total agreement when it came to financial decisions regarding the kids (we have 7 altogether and 3 are my step kids...it made such a huge difference in our relationship for the better because they could no longer guilt him onto giving them things or money because he had to honor our agreement and make sure we agreed on it together since they were also my finances that were being effected by these decisions...needless to say...the overspending stopped and they didn't like our policy...but that really at this point is irrelevant.

They liked it much better when they could manipulate him by themselves...the skid who let the car go back has never gotten another loan for anything because it is also our policy that once you default on money owed...the favors stop and do not happen again.

WaffleZone's picture

I have the same policy with people in my life. Unfortunately, DH does not. SD still owes us money from a minor in possession charge. The DMV wouldn't renew her drivers license until that warrant was cleared. She came running to DH stating it was her rent money. She knows just what to say to play DH heart strings!

This car is titled in both their names. I can see SD refusing to sign the title when DH tries to refinance. I don't want a car we will never be able to sell because we don't have a clear title. Did your skid sign your title?

I don't even like this car and we need 4 wheel drive where we live. It's just going to be a bad memory to stare at!

Orange County Ca's picture

Offer to drive and when he gets out of the car drive off. One way or another that car will have to come back to your place. Of course if SD drops him off then you know she's talked him into making the car payments.

A new car, how stupid.

Treat him as a room mate when it comes to money. Insist on a separate pool of money for household expenses and you both contribute half. Pay the mortgage/rent, utilities etc. out of that fund and keep the rest of your money separate. Every month he'll be reminded of his inability to handle family finances.

sandye21's picture

I agree. DH made the decision to cosign the loan all by himself, without consulting you. He should be the one to pay off the loan all by himself without any finds from you. If the situation was turned around, and you had cosigned a loan for someone else without his knowledge, what would his reaction be if you had to pay for it? Would he silently nod his head and give you the money?

Oldmom's picture

Simple solution... Go back to the car dealer with the VIN number and ask for a new key to be made for you (might cost a little bit). The just go pick up the car without having to see her at all. Then promptly sell the car. Call her after the deal is done

WaffleZone's picture

We have a key. This is the only smart thing DH insisted on. She has to sign the title so we can sell it...not so simple.

WaffleZone's picture

If she won't sign the title then we are stuck with this car forever.

There should be a legal way to transfer a vehicle title in these instances. It's maddening!

joan mary's picture

Just because the title has both names on it does NOT mean that you need both signatures to sell it. Check with the dealer where the car was purchased. In Wisconsin, and several other states, the title can be set up with the need of both signatures to sell or just one. Most dealers default to just one because when the car is traded in it can be a hassel to get both signatures.

Make the phone call asap to find out.

WaffleZone's picture

I know! Seven years is insane! Her insurance is $150/mth. Yikes!

DH felt bad for her when she couldn't get insurance in her price range. The deal almost fell through.

You're correct, he fought so hard to be a part of her life when she was growing up. He's afraid she won't want to be in his life anymore. He sees, for the most part, how SD plays him but it's like he has blinders on.

I've often told him that he would never accept me lying to him but SD lies to him all the time and he's cozy with it.

He IS a dumbass!

shes driving me crazy in my retirement's picture

Oh boy. The damage is already done. Well, there is always small claims court I guess if SD sticks you with the payments for the car. You could ask for the car back, and she would have to sign the title, as she has not kept her end of the loan up. I think in small claims court she would have to make good on the payments, and penalties right there in order to keep the car.

I think you should go with him, but stay in the car. Let her cry to daddy, but before he goes in let DH know that you want the car back or he may just spend a few days with SD sorting things out.

thinkthrice's picture

Well the bright side is that SD is avoiding you--now that SHE owes YOU something. . .

But seriously, co-signing? UGH, just UGH!!! Hope I NEVER have to deal with that issue. My grown kids have always been responsible and never asked me for money or to co-sign.

WaffleZone's picture

Here's what happened. We showed up at 9:10 am and DH sent her a text to come out to the car because we need to talk. No response. He called her and left a message to come out to the car. No response. Her roommate came out to leave for the day and he said she was there. We waited and he called her again and left a message. No response. Finally, after an hour and a half of waiting, he sent another text. He then removed most of her possessions and drove the vehicle home.

Before he drove off I asked him to take pictures of the car. The "little ding" she told him about turned out to be a good-size dent in the front bumper. It will need replaced. The passenger mirror has not been replaced that was broken about 6 months ago. Other various scratches and dings. There's a car part in the trunk that we're not sure where it goes...underneath?? Cigarette holes in the seats. Black ink all over the passenger seat. It's just filthy. The car is over on its free maintenance by 1500 miles. I guess the huge red light that says maintenance required wasn't obvious enough.

Her texts:
1) I can't believe you took the car without talking to me first. I made the payment and I can prove it on my statement. I rode my bike to work today and that's why I didn't answer the phone. I'm going to find a different cosigner.

2) I bought a new seat and mirror and I have an appointment Tuesday to have them installed. You can have them if it will help the resell. I can't believe you didn't talk to me first.

3) I can't believe you didn't talk to me. All contact needs to go through email now because I'm changing my phone number.

4) I love you. We need to talk about the car. I'm not being manipulative. I'm not like mom. You act like I'm her. Blah, blah, blah! This has strained our relationship. It's going to take a long time for me to get over this. Don't text me. All communication needs to go through email.

She didn't ride her bike to work! Give me a break. So many lies.

sandye21's picture

Ya, it really makes a lot of sense - if she was gone how would she know you took the car. SD's texts all had something in common: They all contained a statement of betrayal and an accompanied threat. She really did not make any points for herself by not answering DH's calls. What is his plan now? Another poster suggested taking her to small claims court. Considering her actions when DH took the car, she probably won't show up for court either so it appears you be able to take over the car and sell it.

WaffleZone's picture

5) I checked my bank statement and they didn't take the car payment out even though it never dipped lower than $1000.00.

She needs to stop texting DH about her nonsense. She has told him not to text her and he hasn't. He shut his phone off.

Finally, peace & quiet!

shes driving me crazy in my retirement's picture

Make sure you put that car in YOUR garage so she doesn't come by and take it back. This isn't over yet. She can legally come and get the car since the title right now is in her name. Get ready.

So she ordered a new seat, etc. huh? Can't make the payments but claims she can do that? And who is going to pay for that seat --- did she pay for it in advances or???

Smart of your hubby to shut off his phone, etc. She is trying to play him big time. Oh, the hurt he is causing her....yeah, right. She had her chance, she blew it.

Say, at least if she doesn't want to talk to him, you won't have to bother with her trying to get him to help her get another car or something else. That IS a silver lining isn't it?

WaffleZone's picture

I'm so drained of this situation. He spent 8 hours Sunday drafting an email to SD. She replied with many I love yous and I want to work this out. SD is still holding fast to the notion that we were notified of the missed payment and can't seem to grasp that she needs to check her bank statement or call Toyota to verify the payment was made. The last time she missed a payment it was because she didn't have access to the online account. She wants total access to the online account and I've warned DH about giving her the password.

She is also adamant that she was at work Saturday. She's pissed that DH is calling her a liar. She also hasn't been avoiding us for the last 4 months and that is all DH fault. Not one I'm sorry, yes I screwed the car up, nothing! She avoids responsibility for everything.

I am beyond frustrated at this point. DH is now saying she doesn't totally lie all the time. She tells half truths and there might be a smidgen of something truthful but he sees that as not a total lie.

DH and SD are meeting for supper to talk. He has been wishy washy because of her sweet email and he's been quiet to me, which usually means he knows he's about to upset me. Because SD is so quick and convincing with her lies and DH is not quick enough to figure them out, he will likely melt and give in.

I expect them both to show up here tonight after their supper.

I can't keep doing this!

sandye21's picture

"DH is now saying she doesn't totally lie all the time. She tells half truths and there might be a smidgen of something truthful but he sees that as not a total lie."

What?!!!! This is seriously crazy and is potentially harmful to your future well-being. Tell DH, "No. It's not negotiable." I feel bad for you. But right now you need to do what it takes to financially protect yourself. Good luck. (((HUGS)))

shes driving me crazy in my retirement's picture

A lie is a lie, period. You either tell the truth or you don't. It is very black and white. You should not have to examine what she says to see what is truth and what is "fiction"

Maybe, if this gets straightened out, SD could give your hubby the car payments and he could then be sure it was getting paid. He would know what was going on and there would be none of this, I sent it and I don't know why they didn't get it nonsense.

Funny, the USPO gets blamed so much for missing mail, YET, the truth is they lose very little of it. Most times things like payments are lost in the company they are sent to.

MrsWhoRU's picture

My husband did the same thing to me. He went behind my back to boot. My SS defaulted and never told him about it...there went his credit score. The way I look at is there is no better way for someone to learn than by experience. I will never forget this one and anticipate there will be more to follow through the years. I have no children of my own and have been informed by my DH that that is my problem. I believe that in today's society parents "enable" their children big time! This generation is not raised to be responsible but raised to be taken care of by their parents. Sorry you had to go through this...please know you are not alone.

WaffleZone's picture

He got home last night after 10 PM. I was already a slept. He came snuggling up to me and started telling me how the night went. I asked if SD friend was going to cosign. He said the new cosigner wanted all the damage fixed before consigning for it. SD told DH that all the damage happened in such a short time. He then started listing off the damage one by one and when and how it happened as SD told it to him. When he was finished I told him him one of SD accounts of a scratch/dent wasn't accurate because we both noticed that damage much earlier. He got pissed and started yelling that he can't remember word for word what SD told him and that he would take a recorder with him next time. He's thrown this fit before and said the exact same thing another time I reminded him of the truth. He stormed off and slept in another room. There was silence between us this morning.

I can tell he's going to have all the damaged fixed on the car at OUR expense. He doesn't want SD to file a claim because her insurance rates will go up. Good grief!

Tonight is going to be miserable!

sandye21's picture

So he gets mad at you because you proved that SD lied again? This is between he and SD, not you. Let HIM pay for the damage to be fixed. I'll bet when the money is coming totally out of his pocket he'll have a change of heart and start seeing SD for what she really is. Let him sleep on the couch!

WaffleZone's picture

I told him I no longer wanted to discuss SD, period ~ end of story.

Earlier in the year, after DH paid for SD 10% out of pocket expense for her nose job without discussing it with me first, I agreed to each of us taking 10% of our take-home pay to do with what we wanted. I anticipated that SD would default on their loan and this was my way of saving an argument later. DH didn't plan for the default and July's payment was paid out of our joint account. He can't fix the car this month because he's already spent his "allowance." If SD doesn't make the August car and insurance payments where do you think that money will come from? She doesn't have the car so I doubt she will pay either. The car payment is due on the 10th. We'll see!

The point is, WE are no longer talking about SD or her problems. That means, DH better not even bring up or pay anything out of our joint account for that car. I don't want to hear it!

He mentioned splitting finances when we first discovered the missed car payment. I brought it up again this week and he doesn't want to split them. As it stands right now, he has $1200 worth of receipts he hasn't entered into the checkbook (all legit) but this is how irresponsible he is. He doesn't even look at the bills but gets pissy because he doesn't know what's going on with our finances. I've never hid anything. He just doesn't want to deal with it and that's not my problem. This has been going on for 8 years now.

He may feel backed into a corner financially with regards to the car. I anticipate I'll be separating our finances soon without his "approval."

Thank you all for letting me get this nonsense out!

sandye21's picture

Glad to hear you are going split the finances. This is how DH and I have dealt with it and it works so much better. We each have our own accounts, then contribute the same amount into a joint account which is only for house expenses. When SD was in college DH was giving her hundreds of dollars a month. This lasted for years after she graduated, even though she was making more than he was. But at least it was coming out of his pocket instead of our joint account. The problem is he failed to pad his own nest egg so now in his retirement years he is so financially limited that a few months ago, after his car was totaled, he had a hard time finding an inexpensive, reliable used car.

I apologize for bringing up my story but you can see what the long term consequences are to your DH constantly playing ATM for SD. If there is any way to convince him that the best thing he can do for SD, and the future financial well being of your marriage is help SD to be self-sufficient.