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On all fronts it seems

Newimprvmodel's picture

I finally went to my parents home. My mother went back to my brothers home thousands miles away. All the knick knacks and wall paintings gone. Everything I had ever bought them gone. Nice bowls.  Candle holders. 
Most hurtful was every single photo of me and my kids gone. And the empty frames dumped in shopping bag. Baby pictures of my boys in a nice grand parent frame I had bought them.  Picture gone.  What did they ever do to her??? Photos of my brother remaining all over the house. I did some sleuthing and found a full surrender my mothers life insurance. She cashed the check and within a couple days wired the money to my brother's bank account. How pathetic. Then a few days later she had a antique dealer in and sold all her jewelry. For 4 K. Pieces I had given her over the years too. I took the original paperwork. But what does it really matter?  Who will care?  I've been up for hours could not sleep. The antique dealer actually has online auctions and I found a painting from their house listed starting bid 50bucks!  I am considering buying it.  Is that crazy?

DH spending a few days with his daughter who refused to come for Christmas.  We actually had a nice holidays with all my kids.  I don't get the reluctance.  DH trying to gaslight me telling me his other daughter didn't need to thank me for his grandson's gift.  Oh you should give a gift and not expect anything in return.  That's really burning a hole in my head.  Why can he not simply agree with me??  That's all it would take to make me feel better.  I never get the understanding. 
am I being super critical because of the crap with my mother?  I don't know.  I need a good cry   



AgedOut's picture

no thanks = no gift next holiday. 

and keep any and all paperwork showing a pattern of your mother's behaviors. you may need it to protect your dad at some point.

ESMOD's picture

"Oh you should give a gift and not expect anything in return. " Short answer yes.  A gift should be freely given with no expectatiohn of reciprocation.. and it is given without strings attached.

HOWEVER, if you don't see that a gift is appreciated... no thank you... you should reconsider buying gifts for that person in the future.

Now, as to the situation with your mother.  It's pretty clear that she has or is experiencing some mental health issue and that your brother is taking advantage of her mental state to strip her of her valuables.

I mean, on the face of it, she has a right to do what she wants with her things.. with pictures.. with jewelry with her life insurance policy.  You are not owed anything from proceeds because you may have purchased the items for her in the past.  Again, gifts are given without strings and expectations of retaining ownership over them.  You gave her those things.. and at this point they would be hers to do with what she wants.. including a fire sale and giving your brother the proceeds. 

That is, if she were in her right mind.. and to be honest, without more backstory to prove differently.. if she is truly off the rails with no reason, there possibly could be some legal recourse to stop your brother from taking advantage of someone suffering a mental illness.

But, you have to decide if it's worth your own mental peace of mind to wade into that arena.  Does your mother need help?  Are you able to provide that?  Are she and your brother toxic people that you would be better off without them in your life?  It's something to consider.. you can mourn the loss of the "things".. the fact that she isn't the mother you wish she could be.  But at some point, you may have to accept that this is her.. and you may need distance to protect yourself.  But those things? the money? likely gone.  

If it would make you feel good to own something from the home.. something that meant something to you?  By all means buy it from the auction.  It may be the only way you can get something.  But if it will just serve as a reminder of the dysfunction.. perhaps moving on without the item woult be better?

Newimprvmodel's picture

It's all sentimental.  I don't care what it cost.  I cried when I saw one of my mothers bracelets listed as sold last week. I never imagined this. The daily harassing calls. The police called 4 times. The APS investigators.  And all the while the real scoundrel is my brother. 
Their only asset now is their house. I am sole trustee and my brother is so angry about that.  My mother and father changed the trustees to just me because only a few months ago even my mother thought he had bled her dry and has no control. He is supposedly filing for bankruptcy.  
it all didn't need to be.  

Newimprvmodel's picture

So he gets half the proceeds as do I.  
he is demanding to be a trustee. I am refusing. I know I am a moral person. He is not. 

ESMOD's picture

This is really unfortunate.  I'm the executor of my father's estate... and am handling most of his finances now for him.. I do keep my brother informed to the extent possible but my dad wanted only one tip of the spear dealing with the finances.. and while I don't think my brother is totally untrustworthy.. I think I'm probably the more honest of the two of

The sad thing is that in your situation.. the things with meaning.. are in many cases beyond recovery.  You could possibly have some financial recoupment but other than that.. it sounds like your brother has made sure he was getting his.


la_dulce_vida's picture

I don't understand. If your parents are living, neither you or your brother should take a share of the trust. The funds should be used for your father's care and not be given to your brother at any time while your father is still living.

You should make it your goal to spend all of the proceeds on the care of your father, as needed.

Newimprvmodel's picture

All this craziness came about because my parents are tapped out.  Brother finally filing bankruptcy. My mother is like a drug addict.  Cash for her son.  My father not sure he wants to sell house but my mother is desperate for money to pay for my brothers bills.  They are harassing. We want off the ride.  Sell the house.  The money goes to their 2 heirs.  My father wants for nothing at my house.  He has medical insurance.  

Tried out's picture

see is if either of them should have to go into a nursing home. If that should come to pass the money your mother has given to your brother would disqualify him or her from receiving Medicaid for an extended period of time. So either you end up paying for a nursing home or they don't go. 

Newimprvmodel's picture

To hear your mother tell you she is destitute and then to blame you. Both parents in their 80's never went to college.  Worked hard for every dime. 
I know it devastated my mother to sell all her jewelry. Pieces from my grandmother and great grandmother.  For nothing.  To fund the train wreck that my brother has become.  

Rags's picture

She is not allowed to feel devastated about them.  They are entirely her fault and her choice. Do not let the mom worm attack your resolve on all of this.

CajunMom's picture

I cannot even begin to imagine your pain. My mother (in her own mental issues) lost or gave away so much of her "stuff." I still long for those pictures of me as a young child in front of that foil Christmas tree with the blue balls and me in my red velvet dress. At least I have the memories in my mind.

On your estate issue....if your Dad is claiming bankruptcy, won't that "end" it all? Any assets would go to settle debts of the bankruptcy so if there is just the house left, and with the debt your mother has incurred, will it even cover it? Not my business, but just trying to point a few things out to help you process. In fact, it might be the best thing for your dad to do. How sad at his age. I'm sorry.

tog redux's picture

This is so awful and crazy, I can't even wrap my head around your mother's frantic need to fund your brother - you'd think he was being shipped off to a Russian Gulag if she didn't raise the funds. 

I agree, sell the house, give your brother his half and maybe your mother will back off.  I'm so sorry you've lost these sentimental items - and your mom.  My mom is 87 and I can't imagine how horrible it would be to watch her go off the deep end in this manner. 

notarelative's picture

...found a full surrender my mothers life insurance. She cashed the check and within a couple days wired the money to my brother's bank account. 
...My father wants for nothing at my house.  He has medical insurance.  

Do not sell the house and give your mom or brother anything until you talk to an elder care lawyer (or the lawyer who set up the trust). Your father may not care about the money, but if he wants to move into senior housing at some point, or if he needs Medicaid for nursing home care, there is a five year look back period. Your parents are legally married. Depending on the individual state rules, the money your mom transferred to your brother could impact your father's eligibility for any type of senior assistance. 

Newimprvmodel's picture

I've consulted with 2 elder law lawyers.  The house is protected in a trust past the 5 yr mark.  I don't understand. Why would the surrender of the life insurance negate the trust?  And this is something I just learned yesterday after going through paperwork. 

notarelative's picture

I don't think the insurance would negate the trust.  But, depending on how your state considers spousal assets (insurance payment), the gift to your brother (by mom) could Impact your dad's eligibility for senior assistance.  Medicaid rules are complicated and they vary by state. 

Newimprvmodel's picture

Oh boy!  I'm ready to pull my hair out in frustration. All this crap to deal with.  Thank you so much. 

Rags's picture

Cry it up.  I would send all of the bagged refuse your idiot son Obsessed mother left  to her at your brother's home with a Post-it note.  "You forgot this stuff."  Have the house prepped with a make ready and have your dad lease it.  Of course, re-key the locks.  Your mom left. He should realize the revenues from the lease and take all of the profits.  Have him file married and separately on his taxes.  File early so she is left with the shit end of the IRS stick.  He also needs a new Will leaving his estate to charity so your idiot criminal elder abusing brother gets nothing.

Quit sacrificing yourself on the alter of your mother's and brother's crap.

Newimprvmodel's picture

My father doesn't want to rent the house because he fears it will get wrecked by renters. He's lived there since the 1950's.  Honestly he still is on the fence about selling but realizes his wife is beyond desperate for money.  My mother tells anyone that all this madness is for her little grandson. Such a narcissist. She alone can save him. Yet I've heard her talking to him when the phone got dialed. look my nephew has behavioral issues I'm sure by being cared for by an 80 something old lady with no filter. One comment I overheard was the truth but something you never say to child. "Your father is nothing but a fat lazy slob."   She often tells him something is wrong with him when he misbehaves. 
so hopefully after holidays my father will agree along with my mother to list the house with an agent. 

Tried out's picture

the house and give the proceeds away that will absolutely disqualify them from Medicaid for an extended period of time. If the house is worth 300K and the cost of a nursing home is 12k a month you'd be looking at 25 months of lost eligibility. And whatever money she has given away would count as an additional penalty, including the insurance payout.

lala-land's picture

What a mess.  Look into the future. The house is sold, the money is gone...they will be back.  What if your mother needs medical care, what if you father or mother need additional funds for their own use, what if your brother dumps mommie-dearest on your doorstep.   Your 401K will disappear if you keep going on the path you are on.  You need to protect you and your immediate family.  At this point in time, all communication with your mother and brother should be routed through a lawyer...who hopefully would have your interests as a priority.  I am so sorry you are going through this, but as I have said before, desperate people will resort to desperate measures.  Be prepared by knowing that all they want is money.

Rags's picture

After my GF passed we moved my GM to be near the rest of the family.  Only her eldest sibling, a sister, was still alive but she was living in a different state with her son.

We liquidated my GMs assets and distributed them between the three of us.  We rotated montly paying any of her expenses beyond what Medicare and SSI provided..This was to protect her assets so we could use them for her care and quality of life rather than surrendering them to the government.  So, we were able to maximize her resources and available gov't benefits and protect her assets for her well being.  

If you mom needs to go into some type of long term care, and the distribution of your mom's money flow to her idiot son has not met the horizon for being exempt from recovery, the gov't may be able to go after your brother to recover those assets.

This is why we distributed my GM's assets as early as possible so we could get to the recovery limit date with as little delay as possible.  Fortunately we had plenty of resources to provide for my GM very comfortably during her last years.  She was so happy.  Those memories are a great topper to the life time of memories I have of her.

Tried out's picture

Medicaid doesn't care to whom the $$$ goes. If you give it away to charity you're still disqualified.

What a brilliant way to handle your grandmother's finances! 

Missingme's picture

I'm so sorry this is happening to you. Money and things often do turn people to the dark side. I've decided in advance to not care what happens if and when my siblings do the same, that is after my folks are gone. Hurt one of them while alive, though, and hell will ensue.

Newimprvmodel's picture

So the house is in a trust. Me the sole trustee. Thank God. I did research. I think here you are allowed to transfer 12k of assets. But is that amount for a year?  What time period?  And does her selling all the valuables out of the house in the trust count as asset transfer?  Or is it only if she turns around and gifts it to my brother?

Tried out's picture

That's a misunderstanding of the gift tax. You have to report giving $$ on your taxes but it has nothing to do with qualification for Medicaid. They are two separate things.

What will happen is SS will dig into your mothers bank records for the last five years. Any cash gifted to another person or persons will be scrutinized. Ditto on cash withdrawals. So if your mother deposited the life insurance check and then gave it away that will be on record. SS does not care why you give  the money away. 

Newimprvmodel's picture

I'm hoping that we can make the case they have been living apart for the past 4 yrs and that the money going to her son was to pay for her own upkeep and bills. 
I do think that Medicaid in home services don't have a look back yet but will start?  
anyway thanks again and happy NEW Year. Let's hope it's a much better one!