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Advice: husband hiding money transfers to SDs and boundary issues

Wilderness's picture

Advice please as I can't decide who's right and who's wrong here!
I won't go into too much detail, but I've had a horrible time 'co-habiting' with my eldest SD through her school years and beyond. All the usual manipulative, two faced stuff which left me needing repeated counseling and psychotherapy to cope.
Year before last she returned to our home after a period of travelling. At the time, I begged my husband that she should go to her mothers as I couldn't take living with her again. Needless to say, I was ignored and she came. It quickly unraveled again. I was left begging my husband to let me rent somewhere else to live whilst she was there as she wouldn't do it herself. I also suggested we split, but he persuaded me to stay. At times, I was deeply depressed and suicidal. Eventually, things came to a head and it was suggested that she leave our home to live with her mother. Obviously, (and this I can understand) was met with anger resentment and hurt on her part as she just cannot understand the change in dynamics she causes.
On the up-side for her, she, as a result of moving, as met her current BF and has moved in with him. I met him last year, he's nice. But every time we got together, she was behaving strangely and out of character for her - like deliberately withdrawn. I tried to brush this aside, until Xmas last year when, despite me being completely friendly, helpful and accommodating, she set out to put on some kind of show for her BF to demonstrate that I leave her out and she's a victim. I didn't see what was going on at the time - just thought they were having a fight, until I heard what she'd alleged had happened to her BM (who is spiteful) and it all became clear that she was trying to show her BF that I was horrible to her. When he could see that I wasn't, she tried to engineer a situation.
Anyway, cut to now, I decided, no more - I have disengaged. I don't care what she's doing, how she is and I'm not in any hurry to see her. I explained my position clearly to my husband and said whilst I am not going to stop him seeing her, I want no part. If he wants her to visit our home, I want notice, and the right to go and stay away if I decide to do so. So far, nothing, however, I was concerned at the amount of secret Whatsapps coming through to his phone (he's very secretive with it). A few weeks ago, he was drunk and had put his phone in my handbag for the evening. After he fell asleep, I scrolled through the messages. Bad I know, but if I trusted him, I wouldn't have felt the urge. Well, I found various creeping requests for money, one being for a new TV. His message in return; I've transferred the money today. It's a gift from me and Wilderness. Well, I didn't know if given a gift, and certainly didn't receive a thank you! I then found a message from her BF to my DH asking for a 'loan' to buy her an engagement ring (this is a joke as they fight every month and she ha to go to her mums to give him some space! Funny that - looks like it's not just me who can't live with her then! I don't know what happened with this request, but have a sneaking suspicion he's done it and hidden it through our company, or by giving cash to an employee and getting him to do a bank transfer. I also saw a request for some money by his youngest daughter for a holiday. Bearing in mind she barely works, can't be bothered to work, but happily takes all the perks of holidays etc with us (she recently 'contributed' to a theoretical birthday present for me, but didn't actually have the money!!! She's never bought me a present I don't think? Not with her money anyway - always my DH giving her money to go and get something). Very upset, as is hoped I was a bit closer to her, but really not sure that she's not manipulating too. I'm pretty sure he gave her some money but is denying it. He ignored a call from her when we were in the car together which he never does. He said he couldn't be bothered to talk to her, yet called her back the second he was out of the car and alone! My youngest son asked for a similar loan (which he would pay back) but I said no because he hasn't done enough about getting more hours at work. I told DH this and he said I was right!!!!
I didn't mention what I found to my DH. We've been here before last year when I discovered by reading his phone that he'd agreed to older SD and BF using our house as a holiday home whilst we were away. He'd then had to retract it as he'd forgotten we had a live in dog minder there. She was angry so he'd paid for her and BF to go away for the weekend as an apology! And I knew nothing about any of it Til I read his phone!!!
I have also gleaned that she had wanted to stay at ours last weekend. Again, he hadn't mentioned it to me so I've been on tenter hooks all week waiting to see if or when he was going to tell me. Anyway, nothing happened, she didn't come, so I'm left wondering whether he paid for them to stay in a hotel instead as they were definitely down this way.
My next worry is that I also saw a message exchange between older SD and DH where she asked to use our house abroad for a holiday later this year. We've only just bought this and have spent time making it nice with some lovely furnishings etc. We aren't renting it out, and I'm happy for people to stay with us, including our kids, but only when we are there. I'm starting to make friends with people out there who don't know her and therefore can't judge me because of that. Again, he hasn't mentioned this to me but appears to have said yes to her! I am so upset, I feel like my home is being invaded. She will make a point of using everything out there and will be constantly messaging him to ask questions. I don't want her there, I don't want her introducing herself to people and turning on her fake charm. I'll be judged by it and will have to listen to everyone cooing about how lovely she is. I'm absolutely gutted I haven't been asked, and it once again makes me feel like I don't matter or this is somehow all my fault. It's affecting how I am with DH, but I can't explain why I'm so grouchy as i can't admit to looking at the phone (plus I don't want him deleting messages as I will need to check it again as it's the only way I see what they're all up to behind my back).
My question is (after a long ramble) given the fact we are now married, should he have to consult me before spending large amounts of money, especially when he denies he's done it but I can see he has? It's his company but I am a shareholder, have worked there and supported him. It's made worse by the fact that he persuaded me to give up my job to work with him so I am salaried there. I'm not needed as much due to other staff appointments and he works less than he used to too. We have joint accounts (although, he has one separate account but I can see the statement). He's generous as long as he's in control of the spending. He frequently berates me for overspending on our account, however, he often gets cash which he keeps hold of so I never quite know what we have. He controls what he uses this for and I suspect this is what's going to his daughters secretly. I feel I can't make the same gestures to my sons. If I do give them any money behind DH back, it's kind of in retaliation but is so small in comparison because I feel guilty doing it.
His girls have had so much spent on them recently before you even take into account what he's doing in secret. Should I expect complete openness on this or should he decide what he gives them on the basis it's his company? It's amazing how, if I buy anything for the girls, it's fine. If it's for me or my boys, it's not unless he says so. I need to have this out with him but he's quite firey and reactive so I want some thoughts of others behind me before I do? I just still feel like a spare part in this household. I hate feeling controlled like this but don't know where I stand.
Thanks everyone, and sorry that was longer than I meant it to be. Needed to unload!

Amcc13's picture

Your husband is a control freak. He has sucked you further and further into his web until now you have no financial independence. Your salary is tied to his company so he can fire you and leave you with nothing. Your accounts are tied together so he can clean them out if you split. You are enmeshed and have lost all say over your own money. I mean you can't spend on yourself or your kids unless he says so???

Further to this you do not trust your husband and why should you? He is financially unfaithful continuously. Who knows what else he is unfaithful and lying about??
On top of all this he has zero respect for you as can be seen from the whole sd scenario

The number of red flags are just too serious to count. Yet I don't think you are going to leave just yet...

Get yourself a new separate account. Have your salary paid into it and then put in whatever your cost of expenses is. Start to rebuild some independence from this man. Start to squirrel away money so if you want to leave you can. As I said I don't think you will leave yet- things are so enmeshed I don't know if you will be able to untangle yourself alone. Perhaps try to see s counsellor to deal with this garbage that has been brought into your life by this man

Personally I would separate my finances and file for divorce. No way I would want to be the subject of emotional and financial abuse and that is what is going on here

2Tired4Drama's picture

Completely agree with amcc! If I could give one single piece of advice to those in step siutations it would be this: DO NOT GET MARRIED AND DO NOT CO-MINGLE YOUR MONEY AND ASSETS!

If you want any chance of a relationship working, there has to be financial freedom. The ironic part is that having such freedom actually helps keep the relationship together. There are no fights over money or resources (the number 1 cause of problems in every marriage).

In this case, I fear it may be too damaging and perhaps too late -- other than complete withdrawal.

catsmom01's picture

YES!

EdgeOfReason's picture

I don't believe that to be true. This is a boundary issue and not just on the father's side. She needs to set boundaries with him. She could be pitching in equally, have separate finances and still have bad boundary setting and keeping skills.

The sd sounds disordered, borderline maybe. The apple probably didn't fall that far from the tree. If the mother is also personality disordered your dh would probably fall into one of 5 categories of men attracted to that sort of women. The two most frustrating are Narcissistic Personality Disordered (She's the queen and he the king) or a "fisherman" type who gives and gives until there is nothing left to give. The former would support bad boundary skills more than the latter.

The thing is if the ex is disordered then it's likely he was selected because she could get away with the bad behavior. Added to that was daily conditioning. Not an excuse for him, just a heads up.

Lastly, I wonder why you feel looking at his cell is wrong. You two are partners in life, share everything except his phone? He's giving money to his daughter with out consulting you ... I would have a problem with that because it says you are not partners in life.

Wilderness's picture

Well, this is tricky. My DH makes quite a bit of money. Even when I had my own job, I could not have afforded to go 50/50. As I didn't claim CS from my ex because we had the children 50/50 and because I left him, my DH has done a hell of a lot for my kids, paying for them to come on holiday, helping with car bills, school trips, clothing etc. I am free to spend on our account, but not big purchases (say under £100 except for food shops). I work hard at home every day and have minima input into the company these days (although I make sure I can still access the accounting system and bank account). My salary is inflated and paid into our joint account to cover our huge mortgage. Because of the tax bracket, I can't go and get another job on top. I can't have my salary paid into a separate account either as its needed 100% for the mortgage. I do have a good lifestyle and really shouldn't complain. It's just that niggling feeling of not having any control. He can just go and play golf or go away for a weekend and put it through the company or pay cash, whereas I can't be so spontaneous and have to ask him. It's the secrecy with his daughters I hate. The eldest has never really liked me or respected me, and I don't feel he supported me enough. He tends to brush it off as 'both of us' like I'm some child. She sounded gutted when we announced we'd got married in secret after 17years (had to be secret or she would have ruined it). Didn't come to our reception party and didn't send me a card for my birthday (I got a rushed text the next day instead). As far as I'm concerned, she doesn't know I realize what she was up to last Christmas, therefore, as we had been chatting and friendly before she pulled her stunt, there should be no reason for her to still be pretending to be a victim, but the fact she is shows me that there's no point me reaching out again as its always the same. She's managed to spin it her way though meaning my DH is treating me like I'm the problem and I'll just have to put up with whatever he decides as she's his daughter.
I do wonder what it would be like if I was the one with the money. How much of a shift in power there would be?
I've been through enough heartache and clap with this girl and my DH. I stupidly thought that with her settling down with her BF away from us it would change, but clearly not.
Should I broach it with him or not? It is his money and would be if we went separate accounts and I got another job so should I be questioning what he does? If his girls end up spoilt and manipulative (already are) that's his problem. Am I right to stay disengaged or should I force myself back into her life so she is forced to accept me? Trouble is, I hate her so much now it's hard to be civil.

Disneyfan's picture

You made the choice not to get CS for your children. Your husband supported AND splurged on your children, but now you have an issue with him splurging on his own kids. :? :? :?

Unless he's spending your money and/or coming up short on his share of the household expenses, then he'said free to do what he pleases with his extra money.

Wilderness's picture

Also, what are thoughts on:
SD using my home as a holiday pad when she doesn't acknowledge or like me
SD BF of 1 year asking for (and probably getting) a loan for a ring (£3k if I've uncovered how it was done)

These two things are bothering me particularly!

Wilderness's picture

This is where I'm confused. I'm now married so can I insist on 50/50? Not sure how that works. I have no money or income of my own other than what is paid to us in my name from our company if that makes sense?
Also, DH put the foreign house purchase through in his name only 'for ease'. I think he will try and use this to overrule me if he bother even mentioning it. We call it 'our' house but is it mine? See? I have no idea how far I can push this. Money is power in this relationship.

EdgeOfReason's picture

My husband and I look at it this way: why should the second wife be punished because they were not the first?

Marriage isn't 50/50, it's 100/100.

Monchichi's picture

It's not your money and your husband can choose to spend it however he likes. That is the reality of your situation.

Wilderness's picture

Thanks for your comment but no, I'm not. I put in the lever deposit for our first home and was on a good salary when we met. The company has only grown since we've been together.
Thanks for your input though! Can see why you thought that, but it's far more complicated than that!

Rags's picture

Marital resources are marital resources. If there is no transparency regarding what he spends then the same should apply to you.

Make sure you take pictures of his messaging with his kids and the money he is spending in case this goes nonlinear. He needs to have his nose rubbed in his sneaking lies of omission during your clarity session with him.

Good luck.

Wilderness's picture

i think this is more about the secrecy and the fact manipulative SD thinks nothing of asking to use stuff that in my opinion, is joint. I feel, that if she can't be courteous to me or respect that it is also my property, she shouldn't even ask to use it, or should be made to ask me. DH won't do that because he's scared of her crazy fits and threats. Because they're all cost cosy, he will say yes to her without giving a damn about my feelings and that hurts. I think tbh that bothers me more than the money he dishes out. I kind of don't care if it means I don't have to see her, but I constantly worry that there is stuff going on behind my back which makes me need to look. The financial stuff pissed me off, but the worry that she is being told she can have or do stuff without me even knowing is horrible.
I am lucky in a lot of ways and have grown a real backbone since the early days of this relationship. I'm going to have to broach the house thing because that makes me feel really invaded. I did think that perhaps I would say 'sure! Use our house, have a lovely time! But in return, I'd like the keys to your house so me and a friend can go and have a weekend away?' I'd love to see her face then!!

Wilderness's picture

These I d home was purchased using money released from the equity on our jointly owned/ mortgaged home. For some reason (apparently to speed it up so it wasn't so complicated, the 2nd home went into his name only. We weren't married at the time, but I think now it is classed as a joint asset. I have, however, contacted the solicitor to ask how we should go about putting it into joint names for purposes of our will. Haven't told DH - will wait to see what the solicitor says.
Have also enquirer about making an appt to review our wills -

Disneyfan's picture

Why should she ask you if he can use her dad's house? :? :? You don't have a dime in the dollar. Your name isn't on the deed. You do not own that house. So here asking the owner was the right thing to do.

Wilderness's picture

House is jointly mine - second home purchased using joint money but is only in his name.
I don't like the secrecy and the extents he's going to to hide what he's doing. Someone else pointed out that if he hides this, what else does he think he can get away with?
im making enquiries about 'correcting' the name on the 2nd home deed and am going to get our wills reviewed to check SD can't turf me out of either property if that time came.

Wilderness's picture

Sorry bad typing - should've read 'the 2nd home was purchased with equity from our existing jointly owned house.

sammigirl's picture

I see this as a no win situation, as long as you keep reading his phone and knowing all the secrets. My DH texts and calls his SD56 all the time, and keeps it a secret; everything is a secret from me. I could care less, as long as my SD stays away from me. He also gave her $$$$ for her BD and I didn't ask how much. With all of this said; your situation is on a much larger scale, but with same secret results.

All I have to advise is, put your life on a "nobody needs to know right now" basis. Hopefully you have documentation on all of your joint adventures and will continue to document. Set up your own account/accounts; begin building your own nest. I am financially independent and retired; we have been married 36 years; we have joint everything (in case of a death), but also have our own spending $$$$$.

If you are not being cut short ($$$), let your DH spend his $$$$ any way he wishes. The relationship he has with his DDs will destroy you, if you continue to involve yourself. Say "NO" to the guest house arrangement; my SD would not use my house. Begin setting boundaries for DH and yourself to get all of this on the high road. It takes a long time to straighten out a "Controlling Person", but I have handled my controlling DH, SD56, and SGD31. They all no longer have ANY control of my life. It has taken seven (7) years and I am still setting them straight occasionally.

I understand your frustration, but only you can fix it. Don't tell DH or anyone else your next step; just do it as needed. First you have to set goals and boundaries for yourself. Get yourself set up to take care of YOU; this can be accomplished with planning.