What did you do for protection against HCBM?
I am 100% fed up with the Attorney’s approach to this entire case. I have said from day one that we need to take steps to protect ourselves from this vicious abusive monster and absolutely nothing has been done to do that. Our attorney doesn't want to take the route of bringing up HCBM's mental health because she said it isn't taken seriously because everyone says the same thing. In the last 18 months since we gave started a lawsuit she has accused my husband of literally everything under the Sun, she has said horrible things about me in her deposition, she has withheld the kids for months, she sends paragraphs of vile, cruel sick crap to my husband, she has accused our dog of attacking the kids, she says horrible things about my kids, our home, to coaches, kid's parents ect... she tells the kids awful things about my husband and myself, we have over 20 contempt's on her and now on top of all this since SHE has pulled all the abuse cards, called my husband unstable and doing all the things WE SHOULD HAVE DONE she is getting away with all of this, court ordered my husband to stay in therapy because of his anger issues (that don't exist, she just said it and the judge believed her) she got the judge to court order my husband to hand over all of his medical records. All of this based on total and complete lies! We have therapists, teachers, ect... saying none of what she has said is true but she keeps saying it and keeps getting away with it. We started a lawsuit over her bad behavior and this entire case has turned into my husband defending himself over stuff she has completely made up and we are STILL not doing ANYTHING about it????? I am furious. I'm furious at him for listening to the attorney when I kept saying this is a bad idea. I'm furious. They actually still think it's the right thing to not say anything about her mental health, her abuse ect.. and to just wait until court where her behavior will all come out and be shown. Okay well what do we do in the mean time? She's still being abusive, she's still demanding things, she's still hurting the kids, she's still not following the court order. And we just sit here and let it happen. What the actual f--k! I am beyond furious!!! FURIOUS!!!
Sounds like it is time to
Sounds like it is time to drop rope. What is the point? The kids are teens. I would drop all court proceedings and just be done with it. Don't waste any more money on HCBM and this fight that you clearly aren't going to win. This BM will prolong these court proceedings as long as possible, financially bankrupting you and ruining anything good you once had going for you, all while dragging your name and reputation through the mud.
Your lawyer sounds soft which isn't what you want to have when dealing with an abusive HCBM. It'll cost too much to fire them and start the process over, but it'll also cost you to have this useless battle continue on the current path its on. Nobody but the attorneys win in family court because they delay everything forever and bleed their clients dry.
To protect ourselves from our HCBM, we basically dropped rope, stopped fighting in court, stopped communicating about useless stuff, and set strong boundaries. Yes, it allows BM to basically do whatever she wants with SS9, but she was doing that anyway. We see SS as outlined in the CO (6 weeks per year), we talk to SS9 twice per week on the phone, we pay our CS, and that's it. Now we hear from BM every few weeks instead of every day. DH just responds "Thanks for the update." We keep everything as minimal as possible. It's not ideal, but it is what has to be done to save our sanity and to prevent us from being further abused.
We dropped the rope. No regrets.
I feel for you. But this is not a winnable fight.
Your DH isn't strong enough to do what needs to be done, your attorney talked him into a strategy that keeps the billable hours up while resolving nothing, and the system is designed to encourage HC because all the pigs who feed from that trough benefit from it.
Worst of all, winning means spending more time and resources with skids who are half BM and poisoned against you both. Whoop dee do.
REAL winning is PEACE. It's realizing that those aren't your kids, and you don't have a dog in this fight. Look how upsetting and stressful this whole ridiculous exercise has been for you. You've been patient and supportive, but it's okay to say Enough! and tap out from the crazy. I hope you will. Do it for your own mental health.
What exactly are you trying
What exactly are you trying to get out of these legal proceedings? I've never been certain of that. IIRC you're trying to limit the "extras" your DH has to pay for, and maybe to get BM to stop interfering with your DH's time. I didn't think you wanted additional time with these skids. I said months ago that I thought your DH had the wrong attorney/your DH's attorney had the wrong approach. If you just dropped the lawsuit, what would happen? What wouldn't you get that you're hoping to get?
Your DH needs a different type of attorney, but he has not
Your DH needs a different type of attorney, but he has not been willing to acknowledge that. You have been right about almost everything through this whole process, and neither DH nor the attorney have listened to you. Her behavior is not going to come out in court, and even if it does - it is not going to matter. It is obvious that this judge is going to side with BM - the fact that he wants your DH's medical records is proof of that.
If I was in this situation, the medical records would be a bridge too far. Make whatever deal you need to with BM as far as the money is concerned, and let the rest of it go. These kids are PAS'd out and that is not going to change as long as they are under the influence of BM. If DH refuses to face reality, you are going to have some hard decisions to make as far as how involved you want to remain in this process.
Never forget that your lawyer
Never forget that your lawyer works for you. If they are not delivering to your expectations, fire them and find a killer shark who will continuously go for blood. BM's attorney recently fired her as I under stand it. You do the same and have your go for blood pro drag every shred of batshit crazy BM bullshit up in court. What she asks for, have your new attorney multiply that by 10 and bare her ass, over, and over, and over again until she breaks down into a slobbering implosion in front of the Judge.
When that happens, keep attacking. All while DH remains calm and composed.
Beat her at her own game only using calm measured brutality rather than batshit crazy bullshit.
The SpermClan in our situation went through lawyers like toilet paper because they went bottom of barrel. Even those hacks fired them due to their manipulations.We went from a good though moderately effective attorney to an absolute shark. Things were never the same after that. They would pretty much cave when a letter on firm's letter head would show up in their mail.
Once you have a clear CO keep a rolled up copy of it handy and smack BM on the nose with it every time she tries to lift her toxic leg on carpet of the new normal.
SpermGrandHag would pout with "oh, you are going to read the CO to me again aren't you?" Yes, yes we are. Over, and over, and over again until you either grow a brain cell or STFU and stay under your rock.
Lather..... rinse...... repeat
The side with the most resolve and who knows the process nearly always comes out on top.
IMHO of course.
With respect, your partner
With respect, your partner was the BM, who starts out at an advantage. She was also a good parent with a good partner. Her ex was clearly a deadbeat loser and rapist. And it was still a battle for you guys. In many cases, in most places, fighting a determined BM will drain your account and damage the kids. I wouldn't have believed it if i hadn't seen it in my SO's case. The things these women get away with by virtue of having used their uterus makes me sick.
I completely hear what you are communicating.
It makes me sick too.
I know that I have had about as pristine of a SParent experience as is possible. On the bride side and the Skid side. As you said, even with that we had struggles to deal with for th 16+yrs we spend under a CO.
For me this is a hill to die on thing. The victim children in these situations are damaged by a toxic parent as it is. I would risk causing more damage to do what I could to give them a chance to see that toxic parent for what they are, to do what I can to counter that toxic, and to guide the kids to a healthy confidence and life direction. So many of these kids have zero chance of gaining that clarity.
We did not have the devastating financial consequences that so many have experienced.
Rumple.... I hear you loud and clear.
Sincere regards,
Rags
I also agree that some things
I also agree that some things are non-negotiable. In this OP's case, there should have been a CO from the beginning. That's one mistake a lot of the bioparents mentioned here make. Not having a CO or having one but not following it is a major reason these HCBMs get away with what they do. It's hell to reverse this once a precedent has been set. I think each couple has to decide if it's worth it in their particular case. Age of the kid(s)/time remaining until they age out, whether or not the kid has fully drunk the toxic Kool-Aid, etc. The longer things are allowed to go in the wrong direction, the more of a quagmire it becomes.
The devil is definately in
The devil is definately in the details. As are many of the guiding factors and often the solutions.
The couple should defiantely discuss and agree the path forward in dealing with a toxic XW/XH.
I've said drop the rope for
I've said drop the rope for months. Your oldest skid is almost 16, I believe, which means you will likely be in court until he's 18, and then he will go to live with BM and you will have wasted more money in court than you would have just paying for everything like the CO says.
But I know you guys won't drop the rope so I have no other suggestions. You are not ever going to "win" against this woman. Even if they do make changes that benefit DH, she will continue to alienate and make your lives miserable.
Yep. My SO has been in one
Yep. My SO has been in one custody battle or another for the past 20 years. SS17 turns 18 in 2 months but their case is still open. SS has lived with SO for 5 years straight. BM was caught in blatant lies and her ex-parte was reversed, but SO continues to pay CS on a child who BM hasn't kept in *5* years.
A year ago next month, a judge ordered therapy to see if SS couldn't be persuaded to stay with BM now and then so she can keep getting her child support. This b!tch has dragged it out a whole year to run the clock down. She didn't start the therapy until 5 months after it was ordered. Her excuse? She wanted to wait until school was out so it didn't disrupt SS's education. Now, they do "therapy" every week or three, and the only progress made is that he's had dinner with her in a group setting a few times. SO continues to pay.
This shite never ends.
Yep. BM here would have
Yep. BM here would have happily bankrupted herself and destroyed SS to "win". She didn't care about lying, going into debt, manipulating her kid, or violating court orders. That's why you can't win against this type. For them, the end justifies the means. Normal people usually can't keep the pace or allow themselves to sink that low. And they fear consequences, whereas this type of BM knows she can weasel her way out of anything by crying and playing the victim.
Yup. We spent a year in court
Yup. We spent a year in court and $30k to try to get more than 6 weeks visitation with SS and joint legal custody. During the initial court hearing, the judge told DH he had a solid case. After months of waiting for a court date, the judge changed his tune and told DH that he would lose if he tried to take it to trial and asked that DH try to settle with BM. As we all know, you can't settle with a HCBM. BM made court a living hell. She made allegations of both physical and sexual abuse against us and family members, tried to prevent a fully paid trip to Disney with SS, was threatening to withhold visitation, and drug every single court process out as long as possible. Every attempt to settle was rejected by BM and led to another court hearing. BM even had the nerve to email DH asking him to "drop his case due to BM's lack of financial resources" but informed DH that she was going to pursue her own for more CS and increased visitation. Did the judge care? NOPE. He told DH to take the 6 weeks per year of visitation we already had, pay CS, and let the rest go because "a child needs their MOTHER!" At that point, we knew we were done. We didn't the mental, emotional, or financial capacity to keep up that useless fight.
You can't fight crazy.
You can't fight crazy.
My DH fought in court for 7
My DH fought in court for 7 years against a drug addict who kept getting arrested and put in jail...he was clearly the better parent with a good job, good standing in the community, no criminal records and was present at every effing custody hearing. BUT that didn't matter the court loved Meth Mouth, they wanted her to win, they encouraged her every step of the way and even gave her special treatment..like extra time to help incentivize her despite failing all her mandatory drug testing, or beating her ex with a tire iron. Family court does nothing, it's there to make money until one parent cries uncle, and that's usually the BF.
YEP...^^^^
YEP...^^^^
This scenario is exactly why
This scenario is exactly why I have considered getting a JD Vs a Ph. D. I would love to do Pro Bono beat the morons into submission support for the quality side of blended family legal conflict.
I would truly like to help people in my retirement.
So, either a JD and continual beat them into submission court battles or a Ph D and teach at a small college or university in a desirable location.
If I can get my bride to buy in.
At this point I, if it were
At this point I, if it were my home, would stop. Stop fighting in court, stop forcing the kids to come over, stop taking her calls, stop accepting her e-mails, stop everything. And to me that's not letting her win, it's winning for your own home. She is stirring up your safe place, it will never end. I don't usually think Dads shouldjust stop but in your case, it won't be worse than it is now. On his time, Dad can speak to the kid(s) and ask what time they're coming or show up at his time to get them and if they won't go... go do something else. Your atty is failing you, the courts are failing you, she is failing you. Enough is enough. Take away her power, drop it all. (trust me, she will not be happy and will ramp up the hate to get you to fight back. but she's not worth letting her destroy your lives)
That's what we did and
That's what we did and neither DH or I have any regrets. We had to get through the terror and grief of losing SS to get to the peace and quiet we found. DH was sad about it, of course, but in the end he thrived. You can't "win" against this kind of mother and you will destroy yourself and the kids trying.
Time to withdraw your motion. What is the goal here? Trying to make your bm follow a court order ? Good luck with that. -
And what exactly ...
... are you going to get out of this? The privilege of living with damaged, PAS'd children who will hate and abuse you for the duration of your marriage and beyond? The opportunity to work your tail feathers off for years so that you can help your DH shovel thousands into the rat hole of legal bills?
Frankly I think it was abusive of your DH to drag you into this. Of course you want to save the children and support your DH, but this was never your battle. Stop fighting it yesterday. It doesn't matter who's right and who's so full of shit they squeak. Just tell your DH you're done. No more court, no more lawyers for you. You're just DONE. He will howl because it stings to lose a battle like this and he's used to your support. Yes, you will have to do the emotional work of defending your withdrawal while comforting your DH. But just stop fighting. Stop now and stop hard. Try to save whatever shreds of sanity you have left.
This is awful, and the adults in this shit show, if any, should be ashamed of themselves.
Sorry this is happening to you!!!
I am so sorry you are going through this. I probably would be going through the same thing if BF and I lived together, although SS refused to have anything to do with me since BM came crawling back when her married BF went back to his wife.
Here are some suggestions (This is what BF has gone through and worked for us):
Get a new lawyer. BF had an attorney from years ago that was a total idiot. A lot of things he said sounds like your attorney (You’ll never get this, the judge won’t make her do that, etc.…) BTW the judge HATES BM…..
Hire a GAL (VERY VERY IMPORTANT!!!!). BF talked to GAL about SS's needs and his relationship with him. BM complained about how BF is scum and I'm a sl&t on wheels. This report should be interesting (GAL's report will be evidential to the case...get your popcorn ready!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
Tell lawyer you want her medical records as well (It reminds me of BM showing up with our sexting, it brought into evidence, yet lawyer states “no one cares” when I said “why hasn’t anyone held her feet to the fire about her sleeping with a married man?” (although his lawyer did bring it up when she was going on and on about me…. when he said “It’s my understanding that your BF was married and he went back to his wife, now you want more CS because the gravy train has left the station (Her BF) …what did BM say? CRICKETS………………
Make a deadline to give up; our only saving grace is that SS has made it very clear that he loves BF and wants a relationship with him. Don't know if you've read my other posts, BF has paid $40,000 in legal fees, he is almost done with court (Reconvened) and he is out of money.
We discussed that if SS makes demands once again about “break up with that skank or you’ll never see me again,” BF would tell him that he made his choice, he loves him and will be waiting for him to come home.
Maybe It’s time for you and BF to have that discussion. Good luck, hang in there…..