1. When they aren't here no, he generally doesn't do much, any "going out" with just me/me and dd's/ ALL of us together *I* arrange. The ONLY time he gets motivated is to take the snowflakes out.

2. Yes, I think he does feel it needs to be laid on entertainment the entire time. they are incapable of entertaining themselves.

3. I have always stated (to him and here) that I am fine with him taking them out and spending one on one (two LOL) time with them, it's the amount of time he is spending out and about with them that I have issues with.

4. Yes, it does stretch the budget, it costs (varying) every time. Maybe just $10 to get ice creams, up to $100 for a day out, usually at least one fast food stop $30 a week etc. It adds up.

Will go into more detail about why I have a problem with it at the end.

Will answer first bit at the end.

My OH gets up at 4.15 every morning, works generally a 14 hour day (unless it's a skid day) and we often don't get to bed until 11pm, so HE is sleep deprived. I feel the same as you, I do allow the dd's to stay up a little later and sleep in a little on weekends, if it weren't for the skids it would only be Saturday nights as they have very full Saturdays. I have no control over the skids - they sleep until they want they have NO extra-currics

(oh I tell a lie, BM has just enrolled SD13 in a contemporary dance class on Thursday night. She was trying to get her into the main dance school that is opposition to the one my girls go to - as in these two companies are the best and they are each others main competition at comps etc. But these dance schools require auditions/invitation only for solo and troupe work - anyone can attend classes and do the concerts, but the comps etc are elite. SD didn't pass the audition so she refused to go there! Oh I sound such a dance mum!!! My issue with this isn't "my kids are better blah di blah" it's that SD and BM KNOW that these are the best two schools in the area and SD went ON and ON about how she was going to be competing against dd11 in the comps etc so DD better watch out! DD11 has danced since she was 4, classical ballet, jazz, tap, contemporary and acro. Both dd's do 12 hours a week - including stretch classes and troupe classes etc. So my kids have been committed to this for YEARS. They work bloody hard and love it. SD hasn't taken anything seriously ever. She did baby ballet when she was 4/5 and thinks she can compete? Meh, maybe I am being a dance mum LOL no, I hope I have made sense here - it's about trying to compete with my kids.)

Yes and no.

When they are here he's 100% about them. I cease to exist as an equal partner and lover. Oh that's a lie too. when they eventually go to bed he does pay me attention and expect sex.

He will get them up and make them breakfast and the three of them will sit and eat together, I am just sitting there by myself - would it kill him to include me?

They spend SO much time out of the house in their little family group. Would it kill him occasionally to stay home and be normal. Or again, include me?

SOMETIMES - maybe once a week take them out for special alone time. It's the degree of it.

And BINGO - THAT is exactly it!!!!

My kids are living "normal" life. We go to school, we go to dancing, we hang out at home and play, we do chores, we sit and watch TV, and SOMETIMES we have days out and treats.

His kids are living in freaking Disneyland - every visit with Daddy involves trips out to anywhere really.

And I will explain at the bottom the nitty gritty of WHY it bother me so much.

Ummmm, ok.

If you read the times listed above accurately you would have noticed that the times when my kids ARE here is when he is taking his out. He turns up around the time he knows we have to leave or in time to eat a quick meal with us (if at all)

So - are you answering my question in a strange roundabout way - in that to YOU this would be normal - for the NCP to keep his kids separate and NOT try and integrate them into his NORMAL family life? For you it is normal for him and his kids to maintain that separate family unit, and for your OH to be out with just his kids most of the visitation time?

They go visit his friends and family.

They go to the library, parks, the beach, play centres, the movies, the drive in, fast food restaurants.

His daughter has just in the last few weeks started dance class one night a week. Apart from that they have no activities, yes my girls are very busy with theirs. And when they aren't at dancing they are pretty much home, hanging out, playing, doing chores and just living a normal life.

Oh yes, that's another area that it sucks.

My kids have to sit and watch them go off for fun days out, hear ALL about it when they get home, right down to "Dadddyyyy bought us lollies and ice creams and slushies and took us here there and everywhere"

Comments like "We went to visit So-and-so; oh you wouldn't know them they're FAMILY!" SD said this to me once right in front of OH and he said NOTHING. I know I am becoming passive/aggressive myself but now I drop into conversation which friends we have seen during the time they aren't with us }:) People she has no idea that I know because we never visit with them when the steps are here, because they would take it back to BM who banned all their mutual friends from ever speaking to OH again when he left her.

I just want to be clear - it's only the AMOUNT of time that he does it that I have a problem with. I do feel it shows his kids that we are separate from them, that we aren't all one family (and no matter what anyone says - as fucked up as we are - we are all family - unfortunately.... what's that old saying - you can pick your friends you can't pick your family - well I sure as heck didn't pick these two yet here they are stuck in my life - they MUST be family LOL)