Well, I may be a bimbo
but I still need help. Years ago, in my wild, wild days, I had an affair with a married man who had two kids. I knew he was married, never wanted him to leave his wife, etc. It was my "free-love" phase, all of this stuff with consequences was irrelevent. Eventually he and his wife split up (of course) and she leaves the kids (3& 4)with him. This is all sort of just a side line to my life at that time. The guy and I see each other off and on, off and on--still no big deal to me since I didn't really know him, I didn't really know her, didn't really know the kids, and was still enjoying the wild life. But, eventually I settle down and really get to know the guy and his kids and come to love them all. We've now been together many years, we've all calmed down, graduated college, etc. The problem is, the BM STILL won't see the kids because she HATES her ex. I can't blame her, he was such a jerk back then!!! But, he has really been there for the kids and, frankly, so have I. I truly think of them as my kids and, since I think of them that way, I want them to have everything--including a relationship with their BM. BM is smart, pretty, educated and lives less than a mile away. At first I was all supportive of her distance and would say just give her a little time, but now I'm starting to feel rather indignant for my kids. How can she ignore them? They are so great and cool and funny and it seems a shame for her to miss all this because of some stupidity that's years gone by. I figure we're all grown up now and I sent her a note telling her we need to talk about the kids and she won't meet with me, won't meet with her ex. She pays no support (considering the circumstances, he never asked for any), she has given up most of her legal visitations and doesn't keep the ones she has left, she seems totally NOT INTERESTED in these sweet little cupcake girls who are growing up so fast!They're 8 and 9 now and they wonder why they don't see her, but it's been well over a year since they even ran into her so they are kinda starting to forget her--should I just let them?
I'm all for holding a grudge against a jerky ex but--when is enough enough? Any ideas about how to get this woman to connect with the kids????
Incidently, we live in a small small town. She and I work across the street from each other, we all went to school togther, and we're all in our thirties now.
Is it REALLY possible for a mom NOT to want to see her kids because she hates her ex? Can anyone really hold a grudge this long, even for a major offence? Ex apologized years ago--I've even apologized. I'm not asking her to come over and fix my hair and watch tv--all I want is for her to have a relationship with her kids. Am I asking too much?
How could she
Not want anything to do with her children because of how her husband is/was? I understand her holding a grudge against him for what he did - I mean, I probably wouldn't ever want anything else to do with my husband if he cheated on me, regardless of whether or not we had kids. I just don't understand how she could have nothing to do with her little girls? That baffles me.
All I can suggest to you is continue to be that motherly figure for them, especially since the BM is obviously not active in their lives. She will regret it one day.
I am struggling with the tone of your post...
you were not a bimbo having a wild time, you were someone that didn't have any self-respect, and felt you didn't deserve a man in your life that wasn't obligated to someone else, therefore, you felt that his ex-wife didn't deserve him either. In your words..."it was no big deal". I struggle with this b/c this level of self destruction is a big deal, and two precious little girls have had to survive the wake of your self destructive path. And now that you get to have your cake and eat it too, now is the time that you want everyone to grow up. This was and still is...pure selfishness on your part. If you were capable of having compassion for others, you would have never involved yourself with a married man with kids.
I'm no angel, and if you had an affair with a married man with no kids, I wouldn't struggle with your post nearly this bad, but for you to cause such destruction for two little girls ripping their family apart, and then claim "it was no big deal" is not just someone being in denial, but someone who really is incredibly insensitive to others, and doesn't truly claim accountability for their own horrible and horrific actions.
Something you should understand is that when you are only concerned about your world, you aren't capable of understanding what goes on in someone else's world. Sometimes people deal with pain differently, and sometimes people deal with pain by avoiding it. It's truly unfortunate that these girls are being avoided by their own mother, but there is a strong possibility that this woman can't "deal" with the betrayal and the pain both you and her ex have caused her, and the only result she can give is avoiding it all together. I'm not defending her situation with her kids, but I do know people who do avoid their problems b/c they don't know how to handle tough situations.
I wonder if you should even be involved with these girls to begin with...have you ever seen a family counselor to see if this was a good idea? You obviously didn't care about their well being when you decided to be "wild", and I seriously struggle with your claim now that you love them. How can you love a child while contributing to the demise of their family unit? How can you love a child while you out right disrespect their mother?
You wrote here seeking advice, and the only advice that I can give you is to seek therapy. You have serious inner issues that have never been addressed, and you are thoroughly incapable of understanding why bm avoids her children, furthermore, since you are the "other" woman, you will be the LAST person that will have the ability to fix this situation. A therapist may be able to contact the mother themself, and make attempts to get bm involved again with her girls. I'm afraid that your existence is causing bm to avoid her kids, and as long as you are there, she will refuse to be involved with her kids.
This is truly a tragic situation, and I hope you seek professional help. These little girls didn't deserve to be surrounded by such selfish adults.
Unbelievable...
Wow, I cannot believe the way you attacked this women who is obviously putting herself out there even though she is aware that there are people out there who cannot see the whole picture hummm Candice! From what i get...she wants to know what she should do about the GIRLS! The sweet girls that she is raising. Is she feeling guilty because their mother is rejecting them, probably...is it her fault? No!! I have gone through a lot in my life and I will tell you, I never left my kids. Mostly I would say the hard times have made us closer and stronger as a family!
The mother was looking for a way out, maybe she needed an excuse to walk out on her kids, maybe it was all too much for her to handle. It does happen with men why not women? Please just love the girls, support all their ups and downs, when they are sad because their mother isn't there be there and listen and make sure they know that their Mother has problems and they are not the problem.
Before you all start attacking me also, I am raising my children, I work damn hard, I sure as hell am not saying that the OW is right but I wouldn't let her take my life! The man, well he cheated didn't he...take him. I think there is probably a lot more to the story,in the end he stepped up and looked after his kids didn't he!
What? I shouldn't be honest?
In no way did I say the father wasn't selfish...in fact I ended my post stating that those girls didn't deserve to be surrounded by such selfish adults, and that includes the mother who won't seek help to help herself cope with the pain.
What I truly love is when people lightly label horrible actions as being a "bimbo" when in fact they did something highly insensitive...and now they want life to be perfect when they get to have their cake and eat it too.
How can one get involved with a married man, in a self destructive manner, and then turn around and say..."but it's for the girls.." sorry while I puke.
I did give solid good advice, which was seek counseling. Only a therapist can truly help this dysfunctional situation, and maybe get all of the adults (including dad, bm, and sm) to pull their heads out of their asses..for the sake of those little girls.
Just b/c someone attempts to put their heart out on this site doesn't mean one shouldn't be honest in a reply...
OUCH!
Ouuuuch! No judgements please. None of us are on a pedestal and by virtue of our family situations, there is a level of dysfunction in all of our lives so let's not get too carried away.
Hey so you made some choices in your past...haven't we all! At this point, I would say that you cannot do anything to force the mother to have a relationship with her children. Be there for them...but that is not your problem OR your fault. There is no marital break up situation that outright excuses someone from trying to have a relationship with their children...regardless of their anger for their former partner.
The counselling is a great idea though because your post sounds as though may have some concerns to sort through regarding all of this. Can't change the past. You are in these girls lives now and you can make a difference in their future.
And, by the way, you didn't destroy this man's marriage. HE had the commitment and made the choice to get involved with you so your spouse has a role to play in all of this too.
uummmmm....okay. Thanks for
uummmmm....okay. Thanks for your opinion on my self esteem but, really, I was think more along the lines of suggestions I could use NOW. Like I was thinking of having the father speak to BM's family and asking if the BM would like to see the girls that way...Something more like that..I can't really leave the situation--selfless as that may be--since I am the main breadwinner so Dad can be home after school. Plus, I've been in the situation for quite a long time now and I think my leaving may make things worse for the kids.
I don't want to re-hash my past--I just want some ideas about the current situation from other people concerned about kids.
A therapist
can be a middle man. That person could be a third party that has the knowledge to deal with bad situations and can contact the mother him/herself to make attempts to get bm re-involved with her children.
Like I said earlier, sometimes people deal with pain differently, and a therapist would be the person who has the knowledge to help those not willing to confront tough situations, which sounds like the bm in this case. You could discuss this situation with a therapist, and they can make a call to the bm to try to mitigate a middle ground where bm doesn't have to deal with her ex, or you.
A therapist could also give you insight on what not to do...like contact bm yourself. I have been in a situation before where I thought I was helping my ss and his mother, when in fact, I was stepping on her toes and making her uncomfortable...that was my own insensitivity, and our therapist made me aware of that.
In defense of the "selfish
In defense of the "sselfish bimbo"
I don't see how making poor choices in the past is a reasonable or accurate determination of the value of a person then or now. We all have our crosses to bear, how she deals with hers is not for any of us to judge. The marriage may have easily disolved over something not even related to her.
My ex and I split up when our son the youngest was 3mo old. I never cheated on him and never would. He was an abusive alcoholic and the treatment of me and all four of our kids was not at all what any child should be raised in.
This was the reason that I reached the hard decision of becoming a single mom.
Shortly after we split I became friends with a wonderful man who helped me through the roughest parts of this time.
Because of my friendship, my ex thought that oour saon was the other mans. I tried to convince him to get paternity testing done and prove it was his child but he refused saying he didn't need to confrim what he already knew.
One of the most heartbreaking moments of my life was 5 yrs later when a stranger came to the door and my 5yr old son looked up at me wide eyed and innocent tugging at my shirt and asking "mommy, is that my daddy?"
The poor kid had no clue what his father even looked like no matter how many attempts I had made to get some kind of bond to develope.
My son is now 13 and has met and knows who his father is. they see eachother a few times a year but there is definitely not a close relationship.
My son ha schosen who he wants as his male role model and has become quite handsome, intelligent, respectful and kind not to mention many other good qualities. He seems to have adjusted very well to the fact that he and his father will never be close and only regrets it once in a while.
The best way I could help him through any of this was to tell him flat out that his father has reasons that are unknown to us as to why he doesn't come around. But that some day he will have my blessing and support if he decides to go and ask him. In the meantime everyone else can reap the joy and love that my son has to give and I will never leave him.
I thank God he got through it as good as he did but I also attribute it to the man who filled the shoes of my sons father even though he didn't have to and let my son know he was worthy of being loved.
So after a long winded story and opinion....let those two little girls know how wonderful, valuable, and loved they are by you and their father and let the mother answer for herself when the opportunity arises. Don't make excuses for her or try to create or force something that she is not willing to do.It could have devestating effects for the girls. Tell the kids truthfully you don't know or understand why she isn't interacting with them more. Enjoy the fact that you are "mom" and they love you.
Lisa Dawn
Very well put...
Lisa Dawn. I'm new to this site and i was really upset when I read Candices response. Maybe I'm missing something but I never got anything simular to what she did when I read Winters blog. I think the BM is missing out and someday she will realize the same as my boys father is missing out in sooooo much? I tell you I tried to "schedule" him so that he didn't miss his visits and called him so he would call the boys but after a while you just can't do it.
He is an excellent "buddy" but not a very good father. Maybe the BM just never felt like she could be a good mother, maybe she just doesn't want to be a mother. Any way you look at it, she lives in the same town and the girls are young. She could have a relationship if she wanted....I agree with Lisa Dawn, enjoy them and be there for them.
You must lead by example
I truly struggle when people don't take accountability for their bone head mistakes. I think having an affair with a married man with children, or a married woman with children is just so wrong, that it is inexcusable. Furthermore, I struggle with how Winter said "it was no big deal." I disagree. I think it's a very big deal.
I'm not sure how one could not place value into marriage boundaries, and then turn around and say they want what is best for the children. That to me is completely contradictory to good parenting, or just being a good person in general. If the marriage fell apart w/o the affair, then she would have stood a much better chance at gaining grounds to help reunite those girls with their mother. But being the "other woman", she has accountability into the demise of the marriage, and the bm isn't going to take her efforts seriously.
This situation truly breaks my heart b/c I can't understand why a mother would just walk out of her children's lives...unless she just can't handle the pain or she is mental (which was not stated in the original post). I hope that I did spark someting in Winter, and that is be proactive about seeking counseling. I think this situation screams for professional help.
In regards to your situation, I'm sorry that your ex was abusive, and emotionally abandoned you. He seems that he is avoiding life by self medicating through alcohol, and doing what a lot of alcohol's do, and that is blame the rest of the world for their problems. Your story did reach my heart when you described your son asking you about his daddy. I'm sorry that your son had to go through that.
With that said, I don't think your situation is similar to Winters'. You were accused of having an affair, but you didn't. I'm just struggling with the idea that one does not have to accept accountability for their actions, and can label it as harmless as "bimbo" like behavior.
Just based on my experience
I would suggest you find as much of a support network as you can for yourself. I would not recommend contacting the BM for a variety of reasons. If she perceives, rightly or wrongly, that you broke up her marriage, she will not be receptive to your input.
I did not meet my husband until over a year after his wife left him and filed an uncontested divorce without ever seeking couples counseling. Despite all this, I am STILL BLAMED for the failure of her marriage. I have dealt with much put downs and even some abusive behavior from my skids. I can't begin to imagine what I would be up against if I had actually been a mistress.
It sounds like you made a decision you aren't proud of. I agree that counseling might help you discover why you made choices that would end up being to your detriment. I would brace yourself for the judgments and resentments you will encounter.
It's good that you care about your skids, but I would be prepared for some anger down the line. I'm not saying this to judge you; it is important that you have a support network in place so that you will be able to make constructive decisions in the wake of so much negativity.
I am judged harshly as a third wife and frankly, I find a lot of it to be hypocritical. Nonetheless, people will cling to their judgments for whatever reason.
I do find there to be a double standard in that second and third wives seem to be subjected to a lot of accusations around their sexuality. I find this quite tiresome. I can find plenty of reasons to judge my husband's former wives sexual conduct, but frankly I have better things to do with my time. I am also very forward thinking about sexuality and am of the opinion that women in general deal with a double standard. I think that sexual conduct that hurts people is inappropriate, but we all make mistakes. Because you have entwined yourself into your past, there will be ongoing consequences for your lapse in judgment.
It really doesn't matter what I think of your past, but I do think you and your husband owe it to your skids to make choices that are in their best interest from this point forward. Again, I think the counseling idea is beneficial.
I wish you luck with the difficult path that you are on.
// Susanna
Oh good grief, Candice--I
Oh good grief, Candice--I hardly think of my self as "having my cake and eating it, too" or "not taking responsiblity for my actions"! I do raise and support the kids, I do consider their future, I do want what is best for them. I WAS a bit of a wild girl and a thrill seeker and quite reckless in many ways SOME YEARS AGO but I did, in fact, grow up. Quit trying to be the Moral Authority of the Message Board.
Now, I have had the kids see a counselor and I think it has been helpful for them. They seem to accept that their mother has made this choice and we can't really know why but that it has nothing to do with them. What I want opinions on is--should BF use what ever recourse he has to encourage the woman to see her kids or should we just give up and move away? The attorney we consulted said that when people are made to pay child support, sometimes they get more involved with the kids--what do you guys think about that? I have the hope that, if she feels we WANT her to see the kids and remind her of her responsibility (because she should have some responsibility toward her kids even if her ex was a pig toward her)she will come around and realize that her kids love her and are totally ready to over look her long absence. I am SURE she will say derrogatory things about their dad but we will have to deal with that. What ever else this man is or did he loves his kids and has never left them. Plus, if he is so bad, why would she leave her kids with him?????? I feel they are getting to the age where she either has to get involved or we have to remove her from the equation by either moving away or terminating her parental rights.
We are just going to disagree on some things...
and that is okay. I disagree and see your post as something totally different...and we can just respectfully disagree with one another. I too went through some wild times, but I never had affairs, then b/c mothers to skids from the affairs, and I'm just going to struggle with this. I guess I will get over it, but I just disagree with your attitude about it. I personally get upset when people have affairs and there is children involved. Like I said before, if he were married with no kids, I wouldn't have been this upset, but with kids, it really upsets me. I look at my son's face, and I could never dream of cheating on my dh b/c of how it torment my son. And I just don't understand why other parents can't do that for their kids.
An answer to your most recent post, no matter what, bm should be paying child support. Regardless of why she just doesn't see them, she still needs to contribute to their financial needs. I think that your attorney does have a valid point, but I'm not necessarily convinced that someone who hasn't seen their kids in years would suddenly come around just b/c of child support payments. But maybe she would, what is the worst that would happen? She still would not come around, and you haven't lost anything.
As far as trying to convey to her that her kids miss her, have you tried sending notes from the kids to her directly? So that they are the ones communiticating to her? Maybe some of their artwork from school?
Outside of having a therapist communicating, I don't know what to offer you. I know my dh went through a terrible break up with an ex gf years ago, they had a baby, and she was/still is a very angry person. When they broke up, the baby was 6 months old, and even though my dh took her to court, got visitations, paid cs support, the bm refused to abide by the parenting plan, and would just create car chases when my dh showed up to pick up his daughter. Long story short, he allowed her new husband to adopt his daughter, b/c he had no relationship with his daughter b/c bm refused for it to happen. My dh was 18 when the baby was born.
Years go by, his daughter is now 17, and the ex gf and her husband are now divorcing. We see her in a bar, and she starts throwing abusive words towards my dh about what happened 16 years before. Apparently, she is mad b/c he did what she wanted...he placed the baby up for adoption, not b/c that is what he wanted to do, but b/c he thought that was his only option to giving his daughter a "normal" life. Now, the bm feels guilty, and feels like what she did was wrong...when I learned of that I asked my dh "do you want to meet your daughter?" and my dh said "why would I want to do that? Why would I want to reopen all those old wounds?" My dh simply can not handle going through all the pain all over again. The only time I have ever seen my dh cry, is over his daughter, and the evilness her mother put him through b/c she thought he was a joke. She thought is was funny to deny her daughter the opportunity to see her dad, and now that she might want to see him, I don't think my dh can handle it.
Like I said before, you just don't know how people handle pain...my dh is an avoider, that is just the way he is. The only way he will ever meet his daughter is if she just shows up on his front door...he will not reach out to her b/c of how her mother treated him. Not necessarily fair...but that is the way he handles pain, and no one could convince him to do it differently. It isn't that he was never interested in his daughter, but bm caused so much pain for him, that is how he reacted to all the drama and pain.
This could be why the bm reacts this way, how you resolve it, I just don't know...
make her stop, please
Someone, anyone, please make Candice stop, she is soooooo far off the subject that it is riduculas! Therapy oh yes Candice....please do seek it! You have issues. I don't know your history but you obviously have a perfect life and perfect children and the rest of us are dealing with real life issues so please....we know your opinion now please STOP!!!
Lynette...you're right...
and Winter...I'm sorry. I was being very judgmental and harsh...and I shouldn't have been, and I'm sorry. I was so quick to rush to judgment, and got emotionally wrapped up in the "affair" part of it, that I totally forgot to give you support/advice when you asked for it. That was really rude of me. All I could think about was my raw feelings at the time, and I missed the big picture of it all...what to do now.
I won't beat a dead horse into the ground (I think I already have), but I'm going to work on myself to not be so judgmental. Normally I'm not, but for some reason I was on this post. I also apologize for using such harsh tones in my post, and critizing you so heavily. We all make mistakes, and deserve forgiveness, even for bone head mistakes. I totaly missed that boat too...so again I'm sorry.
I hope you can forgive me and accept my apologies.
oh no!
Just when I thought I didn't like you!!!!! xo
Ha ha!!!
Glad to see you have a good sense of humor!
Child support
I totally agree with pursing her for support. I can't imagine ever turning my back on my children. I am both a bio and step and we are also in the process of pursing bio for support. I think that she chose to have children and wether she wants to participate now or not she should have to be at least financially responsible. It might make her be more active too.