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Toxic mom not meeting visitation schedule

OliviaLalee's picture

So, in court, the toxic BM told the judge that the visitation schedule was fine. Now she's telling my husband that she can't get off work in time to meet at the time the paperword stated. Can we legally get in trouble for not working with her after she told her atty and the judge that the time was fine even though the drive is 2.5 hours and she doesn't get off work until 5:30. "My job will work with me".

We are not wanting to budge at all because she's been so nasty to us, forced one of the kids to talk to the judge, and even lied in court about child support, her work/residential history, etc. She's behind in child support by $1,200 and has not helped us in anyway with the expenses we've incured for back to school items (to the tune of $1,100)

Our thoughts are that she's the one that agreed to the times. She needs to stick with them.

tog redux's picture

Well, what is she offering as alternative times? Are those reasonable? I'd try to work with her a bit, since the court will initially assume her work really won't let her go early. But if she goes round and round in circles, or tries to deny time entirely, then just let her know that you will be picking up the kids at the agreed upon time, and then go.  Where are they while she's at work?

STaround's picture

You cannot force an NCP to take the time.  If she is not present at agreed upon time and place she can lose her time, that is it.  Not certain what you want.   You can demand the CS.   Has she agreed to these expenses ($1,200 for school)?  If not in CO, you cannot demand it.

OliviaLalee's picture

We aren't forcing her to do anything. She told the court and her atty that 6 was fine, and now it is in the CO.

My question was can we get in trouble for not working with her on the pick up and drop off time that she said worked for her and now is in the CO?

As for the CS, the court knows she's behind but did nothing about it. We can demand the behind money all we want but it's not going to do anything.

OliviaLalee's picture

She's wanting it to be an hour later. We've really tried to work with this 'woman' before, but all she does is lie and manipulate. At one point in time, we had the kids living with us when she still had primary custody and was collecting child support. For 6-months this went on and she never gave us a cent back.

If she stuck to the orders to collect money, we are going to stick to the orders that say she has to meet us at 6. We have a life too and because of her recent actions in court, we are even more unwilling to work with her.

tog redux's picture

I know, I get it - we dealt with a BM like this too. I'm just saying that it goes a long way in court if you try to be reasonable and she won't work with you. If it's not a hardship to do it one hour later, then try it. 

Being tit-for-tat just escalates things with a person like this. 

Wait - are you dropping off the kids to her, or picking them up?

OliviaLalee's picture

The drop-off and pick-up is 2.5 hours away from our house, as it is hers as well. (Texas). We meet her half way on Friday and halfway on Sunday. For reference, that's 133 miles from our house to the exchange location.

tog redux's picture

If she loses her job, she definitely can't pay that child support. I vote to say yep, we will do it at 6.  And if she argues, or tries to change it again, etc, then go back to 5. 

twoviewpoints's picture

Unless something in the CO states BM must help with back to school cost, she doesn't have to. Yes, be nice if she did, but can't make her.

With Dad being the custodial and you speaking of visitation pick-up, I assume BM is getting the children from your home on her weekends, but now finds herself not being able to make the court agreed scheduled time? So, work wasn't willing to work with her afterall. You didn't give an an example. re you saying something like BM suppose to get kids at 6:00pm on Friday but can't get them realistically until 8pm and Dad doesn't want to accommodate the pm? If so, court will not be amused if you deny visitation solely due to BM's hardship. 

As to the CS in arrears, put in for it. Additional amount can be added to current amount until paid off. Have the CS payments go through your state CS distribution system so CS can easily be seen and how much each month.

Yeah, BMs can be high conflict and annoying and I could understand wanting to take a hard stance on pick-up time if she was out messing around, but she's working. I'd be glad she had a job. She'd be much more behind in CS if she lost her employment due to Dad being tired of her and wanting to 'stick it to her'. 

OliviaLalee's picture

"If so, court will not be amused if you deny visitation solely due to BM's hardship."

No, we would be denying it because the pick up and drop off location is 2.5 hours away (133 miles). The last time we 'worked with her' on this, she was an hour and a half late, which is why we had the court ask her about the scheduled times. 

tog redux's picture

So that's different. 

"BM, I will agree to meet you at 6 pm. If you aren't there by 6:30, I will be leaving.  If the kids are with me, I will take them home and you can pick them up at my house.  If they aren't with me, you can drive them to my house."

Or 6:15 so she doesn't take advantage. 

If she doesn't bring them to him, as the CP, he can call the police to have her turn them over.  Big pain from 5 hours away, but it is what it is.

justmakingthebest's picture

I agree with this. Agreeing to a standard of being 1 hr later will be better in the long run. She keeps her job and at least it is a defined situation.

Not working with her over something this minor, while inconvenient, will look poorly on you.

I also agree that there needs to be a within 15 min rule. 

I want to add that my ex use to live 4 hrs away. We met 1/2 way for the first year and then tried each driving the full way. He only did one weekend a xmonth and he got extended holiday time due to the distance. But we each drove the whole way for whoever received the kids. So one Friday a month he took a 1/2 day and came down to us and picked them up from school. Then on Sunday DH and I would make to drive to pick them up. It wound up working out a lot better for us and did that for another 3 years. Now he is across the country so it is a whole different ball game.

 

Rags's picture

The NCP has one advantage and that is that they do not have to visit with the Skid at all regardless of what the CO says.

You do not have to wait that hour for her.   Be at the transfer point on time.   If she is a no show then leave and have DH text her with the location she can pick the kid up with a new time.  Make sure to clearly document that you were at the transfer point on time, how long you waited, and that you notified her of the new location and time for the pickup.

” We are at the transfer point.  We will be leaving in 15mins.   If you are not here by then we will be at XYZ until LM:NOP time.”

Lather, rinse, repeat.

If she keeps the shit up tell her she can drive to your town to pick up the skid and DH will drive to her town to pick him up after her visitation.

DOCUMENT, document, document.

OliviaLalee's picture

Thank you. Very good advice.

Before this last bout of court, there were no set times and the documents said she had to pick them up and drop them off at our house. However, we were still meeting her halfway and at times that worked for her because it was the right thing to do.

But, B's will be B's.

She took us back to court in the hopes that she'd win and start receiving child support again. (that would be an increase of 1.2k in income for her had she won).

Anyways, sorry to rant. I just am done with her.

Curious Georgetta's picture

their parent/s is never the goal or the priority. It is the parents willy nilly behavior and the other parents response to that behavior that seems to be what is most important in this situation.

Neither parent seems to be putting the best interest or for that matter any interest of the children first. Time and money seem to be the priorities.

It is unfortunate that courts cannot order parents to actually care about their children when they are making decisions.

 

tog redux's picture

Very insulting of you.

I'm not clear how OP's DH is being "willy-nilly" or not making the kids a priority because he'd like a defined pick-up time.  What do you suggest, that he drive the kids to the pick-up spot and wait as long as necessary for BM to show up? Perhaps pack a tent or trail a camper so he can just wait there until she decides to get there? Would that be your idea of "putting them first"? Or maybe you think he should do the 5 hour drive each way himself all the time, and the BM shouldn't even have to help.

You are just in the business of looking down on anyone who gets a divorce. And you are especially salty when the man is the CP and remarries.

Rags's picture

This is exactly why the CO should be followed. If one party won't follow it, the other needs to follow it to the letter and apply consequences to the noncompliant party.

It really is about the kids.  Stability, consistency, etc....  If the OP's DH was not supportive of what is best for the kids, he would not drop the kids off and would require the BM to do all of the driving.  The OP referred to the arranged transfer point as "the right thing to do".

By all evidence it is the BM that is the unreasonable one with no interest in what is best for the kids.

Goodluck's picture

CG remindes me of HRNYC. Does anyone remember HRNYC

Yes TOG, CG would rather all 2nd families drive 1000 hours so bm can clean her house after a meth cook. AND never lift a finger to bridge visitation.  PLUS pay that same bm for gas money for HER transportation she never used and bring bags of groceries to her to boot.

 

tog redux's picture

She just can't seem to bring herself to admit that a woman, A MOTHER, could ever be dysfunctional and the cause of a problem. She must ALWAYS find a way to throw the father under the bus with the mother.  She can admit they are BOTH a problem, but NEVER EVER is the mother the main cause of any issues.

Curious Georgetta's picture

are at fault and it is the children who will suffer.

Courts are not in the business of making parents effective or caring.

Courts do not have the ability to order  either of those attributes.

It is the responsibility of both parents to make things work in the best  interest of their kids.

To say that I do not have to care about seeing my kids because it becomes inconvenient is a sorry excuse for a parent to make .

It is not the courts purpose or within the courts purvue to make parents functional or effective parents  The parents sense of commitment and morality is what makes them effective parents.

tog redux's picture

What has the father done wrong?

ETA: As I said, whenever the bio mother is the issue, you find a way to blame BOTH parents. As you admitted.

Curious Georgetta's picture

2nd" families " have to do anything. I think that only 2_people have an obligation in this scenario. The man and the woman who created these lives are the only people with responsibility for effecting a solution.

If the parents choose to live hours  and miles apart, then that is not an unreasonable distance to travel to see and collect your kids.

I think that this is the responsibility of both parents

tog redux's picture

And what has the DH done wrong here? He has shown up at the designated spot on time, without fail, from what I read. The mother shows up late.

tog redux's picture

I'm waiting, CG! Please do let us know exactly what you think this OP's DH has done wrong that leads you to say both parents are failing their children.

It's been 5 hours now. Please illuminate us.   Unknw

Goodluck's picture

OP:Before this last bout of court, there were no set times and the documents said she had to pick them up and drop them off at our house. However, we were still meeting her halfway and at times that worked for her because it was the right thing to do.

------------------------

OP that is already on record which is a good thing. There, right there shows history of "working with BM". Your bm is one of those who moves the goal posts over and over again. I know that experience well.

IF bm cant make the transfer, she is going to have to make arrangements for someone to do it for her. She is a big girl isnt she....the longer she act irresponsible the more she shows the court they infact made the right decision to place the kids with you.. I would tell her that too.

Remember you and dh have proven with your actions YOU HAVE been flexible and helped BM out. The kids need mom to show them that SHE is willing do what she must to participate in visitation.

OP many bm's who are cp do not lift a finger--they don't follow court orders, they act first and say OPPSEE later if in court. Start saying mom refuses to help out..bm refuses to be flexible, bm will not work with CP, "why does bm keep traumatizing the children by not being there on time, or not showing UP at all"...switch it around. That seems to work ok in court with bm's as custodial.

JMO of course.

 

 

Rags's picture

If the CO still stipulates that she picks up and delivers the skid... then her antics should be met with a rolled up copy of the CO upside her idiot head.  Figuratively of course.  Her games should return stict application of the the CO.

You and DH were reasonable, she played games... she drives the 5+ hours required to see and return the Skid.

Keep it simple.

If she does not step up the. You and DH continue to provide stability, the example of mature adulting, and have the Skid’s back.

There were several periods of more than a year during our 16+ years under the CO that my SS’s Spermclan refused visitation for various reasons.  Usually it was because they could not afford half of visitation travel.  We kept doing what we always were. A family.   If it had been too long since they took him we would pay for their share of travel costs.  Those visit s never went well but SS knew why they were delayed and why they happened so that he could process the mess emotionally and with the facts

.

Good luck.