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Slightly OT: Thoughts on marriage

epiphany's picture

I like to keep my life as simple as possible.

That's why I got involved with a single mum of 3. Blum 3

Seriously though, all I keep thinking is how eventually the prospect of marriage will be on the table and to be honest I just don't get it.

On a political level, I don't get why marriage has to be a state sponsored institution - why the state has to be involved in what should be a private agreement between two people. If you want to arrange your financial affairs, go to a solicitor. If you want to celebrate your love, throw a party. Wear the nice clothes. Have the speeches. But why seek what is effectively a licence to be recognised as a joint couple?

On a personal level, I don't get what marriage would give me or my SO what we don't have now, except more complications if things do down the toilet. The statistics don't look great. Many divorcees complain of a raw deal and an excruciating legal process if the worst happens.

As there are kids not of my making involved, marriage just seems even more complicated and daunting. It has nothing to do with how I feel about my SO. It's that I simply do not have any desire to fix what ain't broken, or complicate what is relatively simple. It seems to be mostly about labels. At the moment I am called a "live in boyfriend". So what? Why do I have to be a husband to prove my love to someone?

We have no assets between us. We rent. We have no joint savings. We split bills and there's no intention of me paying for the kids' upbringing.

What can marriage offer someone who lives with their partner and their children?

Last In Line's picture

Because of the way a lot of law are written...legal marriage matters as you age or when you die. Things like insurance, social security, inheritance, etc. Not saying I agree with it, just the way it is.

Oh, also FMLA. Can't take it for your boyfriend/girlfriend, but you can for your spouse.

epiphany's picture

Yes I need to read up more on those kind of things. I assume by insurance you mean healthcare? This isn't an issue in the UK. But I guess there are financial benefits as we get older that can only be obtained through the state marriage contract.

notasm3's picture

I was 100% opposed to marriage. I come from the hippie generation that marriage was just a piece of paper.

But when I almost died 3 years ago (10 days on life support in ICU) I realized that DH would be out of luck if I died. He could at least get SS if I died. So I married him. It also saved me thousands of dollars a year in taxes.

epiphany's picture

Sorry to hear about you going through such a traumatic time. Was your husband not working?

I wouldn't say I'm a hippie (although the peace and love message is important), but I'm very much of the libertarian persuasion. I think that's where my views on marriage come from.

notarelative's picture

Not married. Spouse gets sick and can't handle his or her affairs.
Unless you have the legal medical and financial powers of attorney you have no say about anything. The spouse's children can have you banned from visiting if they chose.

Marriage conveys perks you don't notice until you need them.

epiphany's picture

Good point. I was made aware of powers of attorney listening to the radio a while back. That's something to consider, although marriage clearly isn't the only route. It sounds like marriage is a sort of "package deal" that saves time and solicitors' fees in the long term.

epiphany's picture

I've made my views about marriage pretty clear. Basically I view it with a healthy scepticism and she knows this. I remember we had an argument about it early in the relationship and it ended with her saying something like "I'll win you over eventually", which I have to admit I found strangely attractive!

She even accused my ex of influencing my views on marriage (because she shared my views at the time). We haven't really talked about it since then because I know it will just end in an argument again.

All I can say about marriage is the same thing I've said about having my own kids - I don't feel it now, but I can't say I won't ever feel it. People change. But she can't blame me if I don't.

ChiefGrownup's picture

If marriage means nothing to you, don't give it any thought. To some of us it means a great deal.

But don't kid yourself that high divorce rates are a reason to avoid marriage. All romances in general have a high breakup rate. Doesn't stop you from entering romantic relationships. Not getting married in no way helps you not break up. Logic fail on that one.

epiphany's picture

That she thinks my ex influenced my views on marriage, and it descended into an argument. That was a while ago.

If someone asked her "what does your boyfriend think about marriage?" I'm confident she will know enough about me to say that I'm going to need a lot of persuading. There is no way she could think I'm going to hop skip and jump down the isle.

Snowflake's picture

Marriage is not important to some people. To some individuals, it can make or break a relationship. It just depends on the individuals.

Marriage secures many things to people that truly want to spend the rest of their lives together. It means that we family in the eyes of the law. If my husband is in the hospital, I have the right to make decisions regarding his health decisions should he be able not to, not his parents or siblings, the skids, or our kids, me. If he or I die, we each inherit each other's estate. That is big. I love him to want to know he is taken care of and he trusts me.

My husband plans to be with me for the rest of my life, so wanting to marry me was what he wanted to do. Same for me, to take care of him when he is a little old man. Having the security of a marriage certificate is important to both of us. But that is how we both felt about it.

It is not bad to not want to be have a marriage certificate. For you, epiphany, it is does not make financial sense. You have described a nice life with your girlfriend and it works right now for both of you.

If you never plan on marrying your girlfriend, be honest with her like you were here. Only because if she knows now, then in the future she can't say that you weren't honest with her and be hurt over something that she knew up front. If she wants marriage, which I have seen most, not all, women do, then you know now and can move on to be with someone who shares your views.

epiphany's picture

I don't want to be with someone because they necessarily share my views. If she's going to try and win me over on the marriage thing, which she said she would, then as long as I don't want to get married I will be trying to prove to her that we don't need it, at least not yet. It works both ways.

I don't think she actually knows much about what the legal side of marriage entails. She just wants the ceremony - the dress, the vows, the country hall. If it was really about the legal advantages, she would be happy doing what my mum and dad did - go to city hall and sign the papers.

TheAccidentalSM's picture

I thought I never wanted to get married. I was completely happy with not having a state sanctioned piece of paper to validate my relationship. I knew I wanted to be with now DH for forever.

Then a good friend of mine died and I realised how little rights and input non family members have in health crisises and after death.

Suddenly, I wanted the piece of paper that would put me in charge if something happened to now DH or let him take the decisions if something happened to me. I was horrified at the thought that his ex through his kids could decide that I wouldn't be invited to the funeral or allowed to visit in the hospital.

This is the unromatic reason that I have a piece of paper from the government to make our relationship official.

It's worth considering.

Monchichi's picture

As darstedly a prospect as this may be, lack of a marriage certificate has ramifications. I know that if my SO passes, me and the girls have no legal rights to his estate. Chucky gets everything.

Immaterial of wills, co habitation agreements the lot.

TheAccidentalSM's picture

Ouch!

Here the our wills would have covered this but I guess like lots of things it's different in ZA.

Monchichi's picture

A trust was the only way to trump it and the lovely Jabba could still contest it. Her chances of winning are slim but it would deplete the trusts funds. Divorce and 2nd families are a toughie.

Even a pre nup means nothing in court if a rule 43 is applied for.