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Question for either bio or step parents regarding SS18 and “bills”

EricaT1980's picture

SS18 has been spoiled and entitled his whole life. Never had a job, refuses to help around the house unless we pay him and basically sleeps then gets up to watch tv. DH has been avoiding this discussion long enough and going to put my foot down this weekend and need advice. 
 

1. I feel now that SS18 he should be paying some sort of rent. What amount do you think is fair and what should it cover? 
 

2. DH is pushing SS18 to attend college and told SS18 he would help him out paying for it. Did you help your bio or step kids out financially with college and if so how much? If SS18 has a say it will be 100 percent so I want to know what is normal. 
 

3. if SS18 does go to college full time should he still hold down a job and be expected to still pay us "rent"? Pay his own car insurance? 
 

Any and all suggestions are welcome and very much appreciated 

 

 

Survivingstephell's picture

This is going to be really painful to watch unfold.  Skids that are not prepared for life, coddled, have a hard time adjusting.  You cannot be easy on either of them.   This is a hill to die on  IMO.  
 

Ideas ;  a signed "rental" agreement with expectations, costs and consequences for failure to uphold agreements.  
Reimburse college expenses AFTER proof of passing grades and credits earned.  I think all kids do better with skin in the game   If not college than trade school.  

Time limits for car expenses and phone bill  there must be a final date where SS takes them over.  These two expenses can last a long time in a situation like yours so be firm   
 

Don't let him hang out with any girl friends in his room   If he wants those activities then he can move out   Do not make him comfortable , moving out should be more attractive then staying there   
 

No WiFi code for slacking   Free ride is over.  
 

Getting DH to understand that all kids must grow up and move out and that HIS life with you improves when that happens is important. How long have you sacrificed? You've waited long enough to have DH to yourself.   
 

I'msure you'll get more ideas     

 

 

Trudie's picture

Excellent advice and ground rules.

Rags's picture

He does not do his daily chore list, he does not eat. Pretty simple.

We used a version of this when SS-32 had graduated HS then turned 18 three months later. He was on our dime for the summer after HS graduation. On his 18th birthday he had to be enrolled to start fall classes at a college, university, or tech/trade school or he had to be working full time to stay in our family home. He refused all of those options. We would have funded the mom and dad full meal deal scholarship and he knew it.

Instead of putting him out we made it clear that if he wanted to eat, sleep in the house, etc... he had to complete a very long chore list daily while his mom and I were at work full time M-F.  If he failed to complete that list on any given day, he was on the curb when we left for work the next AM.  He tested us twice in the first 4mos of that period. Both times he had a very long day outside of the home with no food and only the garden hose for water. His call. Do the chores, or not be in the home.  To highlight the situation we turned off the WiFi and cable when we left for work every AM.

His firsst test of the rules was in Sept when it was hot.  He was miserable and was angry as hell about having to sit on the back covered patio all day sweating.  He was pretty dehydrated by the time we got home. That was his introduction to the garden hose as a water source.

The next time was Dec and was a bit chilly. He was shivering when we got home though we had tossed his bed comforter at him as we locked the door and left for work.

A few weeks after that he enlisted in the military on the delayed entry program.  To stay in our home until he shipped out for basic he still had to compete his M-F chore list. If we went out to dinner, he came with us. If we took a weekend trip or vacation, he came with us.  But... he had to work. Since he did not want to get a job, he worked as our beck and call chore boy. Unpaid. His pay, was room and board.

This was the burning platform that motivated him to launch into adulthood.  IMHO, when a kid reaches 18 and HS graduation or drops out, it is the parent's duty to force them to launch if the kid chooses to not attend higher education or get a job.  

Some kids need to finish growing up on their own Dime and their own time after turning 18 or finishing HS. Whichever is first.  Unless they drop out before graduation and turning 18. Then, it is forced emancipation of a minor time.

IMHO of course.

Winterglow's picture

My daughter is at college in another city, working towards her master's.  We pay her rent, her car insurance and she's on the family phone plan (costs next to nothing). That's it.

She works during the holidays and does the occasional event gig during the school year for anything and everything else (OK, Ioccasionallystock up her tiny fridge).

There was a time when she worked weekends during term time but her studies started to suffer and she stopped (I had the same experience many years ago). Full-time college then work all weekend just didn't work for her. She is a hardworking kid and we're proud of her achievements  ... we know she's going somewhere. 

PS - she pays our Netflix  *biggrin*

Rags's picture

Sofa rodeo riding slug basement trolls do not.

Some young people can navigate their young adult preparations for viable adulthood. Others cannot and those are the ones who need parents to light the burning platform to get them to launch.

Ours, though a very smart and pleasant younger man, struggled with the guilt applied by the SpermClan. So, we had to torch the platform to get him to step into making his life.  We did not kick him out and cut him loose.  We increased the motivation for him to engage in his life by applying a level of increasing discomfort related to inaction.

Congratulations mom. Your DD definitely won the mom lottery and you won the DD lottery.

Give rose

ESMOD's picture

You may not like all of what I say.. and I will caution that what I am advising does hinge on your husband's financial standing... (not yours.. his).

I believe that children living at home after 18.. (after the summer they graduate high school.)  should be either working full time (or two part time jobs, or going to school full time.. or going to school part time (3 classes or less) and working part time.  (so if full time in school.. a part time job may not be 100% possible.. but should be encouraged.. if only going to school part time.. a part time job is expected).

If a child is living at home and working full time... they should pay a reasonable amount of rent.. The rent should not equal your local one bedroom apartment rent.. but should be somewhat meaningful.. maybe 500-800/month.. a bit more if you are including groceries and all utilities in that.  

I will say that lots of parents do help their kids with certain bills past 18 if they are in school full time. including things like cell phones, health insurance and car costs/insurance.  This is of course only if the parents can AFFORD to do that.. obviously not everyone can.. but if a parent is solidly able to help the kid meet costs while the kid is pursuing a full time college education (or trade school certification).. then I am absolutely fine.. in fact think it's something a parent should do if they can.

As far as the cost of tuition.. My parents paid all of my college tuition and board costs.. I did have part time jobs to spend on incidentals.. but they did cover those costs.. and were well able to financially .. they weren't eating beans and rice to make it happen. 

If your husband can afford to give his son the gift of an education with no debt.. great.. that is wonderful.

What I would suggest is going through the FASFA process and see if there is any grant/assistance he might be able to get.. and if the remaining amount is swingable by your DH.. I don't disagree with him (your DH) paying that.  

Now.. if the kid only wants to take a couple classes?  I also think your DH should try to pay those costs.. BUT.. the kid would need to get at least a hefty hour part time job that would be used to pay for his spending money.. and other costs as affordable.. like towards his car costs.. cell phone etc..  The reality of whether he could also afford to pay his way in rent on a part time job.. that may or may not be realistic.

If he chooses not to go to school.. the hammer falls harder for me.  That merits a full time job.. and it also merits him paying his way for things like his vehicle cost and insurance. even if it means that your DH just banks a portion or all of the rent paid to return to him as a savings/nest egg to go out on his own in a few years. (some idea of how long is reasonable to allow him to stay at home if he isn't in school is worth having with your DH).

I will say that I did come from a family where financially my parents could afford to do what they did for myself and my brother.  I understand that not all families can.. and in fact, we did not pay for my SD's college costs.. but my younger SD works full time at a company that does all her class reimbursement.. and she is almost done with her associates and has started her 4 year classes too.  

I do feel that it's probably unrealistic to think a teen/entry level kind of job is going to bring in enough money for the kid/young adult to pay a chunk of rent plus transportation.. and then be able to afford college classes and supplies on top of that.. Pushing him to get loans is a handicap he will carry for a long time.. so if his dad can afford to do more without going in debt to do it.. I would hope that a parent could/would help their kid get a higher education or trade skill that will provide them long term ability to get employed well.

I will caveat this also by saying that I am advocating basic kind of support.. not luxury private schooling.. not expensive fraternal order memberships.. not boutique schooling (my YSD wanted to go to some fancy yacht designing school.. uh.. no honey.. ) and.. it has to be reasonably affordable by the parent (s).. but I am someone that had parents who did it for me.. and I don't think a parent's responsibility to help and be parents necessarily ends at the stroke of the clock at 18... but I also don't support letting the kid just sit around all day playing nintendo.. that would not be acceptable...  even if he was paying rent.. it would irk me.

Rags's picture

Your family and parental support experience is extremely similar to mine. My parents did provide a college opportuntiy for my brother and me.  

Though mine was a bit convoluted due to my lack of early focus, starting a business, getting married and divorced, etc..

They paid my first two years. Tuition, room, board, car, insurance, travel costs, etc... I failed miserably. Not because I struggled with the classes. I just did not attend.  They then jerked my support and gave the choice of moving home or figuring out for myself.  I took their moving home offer.  They paid for a one year tech progam in data processing. I did it. I did great accademically but learned that I hate programming.  I was in that program as I was starting my company.  The next 6yrs were on me. I worked in excess of full time, and attended college classes part time.  I married, divorced, and decided it was time to stop dicking around and finish my undergrad.  I was only 30 semester hours from finising a BA in Economics.  Having run my own $1Million+ dollar revenue company for 6yrs when I started looking at options and the best offer I got was "finish your degree and we will start you at the front of the bank as a teller then train to be a loan officer" I realized that Econ was not going to give me the career or life style that I wanted. That is when I did the last of my 7 declared majors and changed to Engineering. My divorce, sale of my share of the company to my partners, and moving out of state to finish engineering school all coincided very closely.

The prodeeds of the sale of my share of the company paid for the next 2yrs of school though I did work part time.  After seeing my dedication my parents put me back on the mom and dad full meal deal scholarship.  They had already been subsidizing my living expenses as my younger brother and I transferred to engineering school together. He after his Freshman year of college and me after 7 years of plinking away at undergrad classes.  Mom and dad were covering my baby bros school and all expenses including housing so I lived with him.  

We graduated together 11yrs after I started my college career. Longer if you consider that half of my HS credits were college level credit as the school was a Jr High, HS, and JC.

Grad school was reimbursed by the company that my brother and I both went to work for after engineering school. We graduated together with our Master's degrees.

DW and I met in undergrad. We paid for her to complete her dual major BS and MBA and for her prep for the CPA exam.  She did have VA survivor benefits from her BioDad who was killed while in the service but that ended when we married.

We offered our son the full meal deal mom and dad scholarship ride. He refused. He also refused the part time school part time work option and the full time work option.  Due to issues with the SpermClan as well as confidence issues.  So, the burning platform live in beck and call chore boy model was invoked that ultimately led him to enlist in the military.  He has been in for more than 14 years at this point and is progressing to qualify for full retirement at 20 years.

I agree that parents can and should provide transitional support for an 18yo if they have the resources and more importantly, if the 18yo earns it with performance. I certainly didn't earn it. But our parents played the long game did end up covering 5 years of my 11yr undergrad career.  In chunks.

Winning the parent lottery is an eternal blessing.
I won.

ESMOD's picture

Rags.. we did have a lot of similarities.. haha.  I also thought it was ok to skip class.. and I was going to Cornell's hotel and restaurant mgt program .. pretty competitive program.  I think sometimes people that are smart think they can get away with it.. then it gets away from them.. haha.

I also almost went into the service.. but the older weight standards had me by like 10 lbs.. I figured it might be better to work instead civillian.. my dad was military.. so I am not sure I was interested in following his footsteps at that point in my life.

My parents did kick me out of the home as soon as I had a couple full time paychecks under my belt.  They did help me secure an apartment (one room studio).. and I didn't have a car.. and they would help subsidize me a little.. but they wanted me to feel the weight of pulling my own... I went back to school after a few years when I realized that I would get no opportunities without a degree... I took actuary tests.. and aced them.. but with no degree my company wouldn't put me in a role where a degree was required for any higher level. Lots of lessons learned and by the time I went back to school.. I was ready to pay attention!

My parents paid for my masters too.. and helped cover rent costs while I did the 2 year program.. though I worked 2 part time jobs... to make ends meet.

They didn't want me at home.. they wanted me adulting.. if I was so adult.. haha.

Rags's picture

Smile

Cornell. I'm impressed.

I got into Princeton on early acceptance but was at least self aware enough to realize that there was no way I was going to put in the effort and focus that being successful there would take.

So, I went the legacy route at my parent's alma mater entering the honors program that I promptly "left" at the end of my first semester.  I moved home after my sophomore year.

The ski slopes were less than 30 mins from my dorm, great rock climbing near by, a drinking age of 19 that I was grandfathered in on as I graduated from HS at 19 and they changed the law the following Jan.  The law allowed those already 19 prior to the Jan activation date of the new law to retain their drinking right.  And, after years in a predominantly male Military school  being surrounded by young women pretty much kept me from attending class.  That was the miraculus period at the end of the sexual revolution and before the major onset of AIDS.  Fortunately I avoided any life long issues.

Blush

I was lucky my parents did not do away with my body in those days. 

Their patience and firm consequences ultimately directed me to ultimately finishing my BSEE and my MBA.   Part of their demands in re-engaging in paying for my school for the last 2yrs of my 11yr undergrad adventure was for me to keep my younger brother in school until he graduated.  He flirted with enlisting in the service at the end of nearly every semester the last 3 of the 4 years we were in school together.  Mr. barely graduated is a C-Suite exec and absolutely the most advanced savant regarding corporate leadership that I have ever encountered.  

I kept dragging him to class in both undergrad and grad school which we completed together. Our employer paid for the MBA.  That company hired 32 of our EE graduating class of 37.

A couple of years after we finished our MBAs together I was accepted into a PhD program. He absolutely refused to do that together.  My PhD effort was overcome by events, promotions, industry transitions, relocations, etc, etc...  I never started it.

Maybe that will be my retirement hobby in a few years.

Unknw

Rumplestiltskin's picture

As a BM, both my bios are in college full time. They have also both held various jobs. However - any job you can get with only a high school diploma pays nowhere near what it would cost for housing, food, car, car insurance, phone, healthcare, and (the big one) college tuition/books/fees. Have you priced car insurance for a teen? I know it's state-dependent, but car insurance for me and my 2 kids is more than my mortgage. School expenses are insane. I help with what i can and so does my dad.

I consider this an investment. My SO's oldest 2 are late 20s, and neither got a higher education. They regularly text him asking for money for food, gas, and rent. One of them has been homeless and the other has tens of thousands in student loan debt (possibly over $75k) for a degree she didn't finish. This will probably go on the rest of their lives.

With the help my kids get, they are expected to treat school as their main job and progress with their degrees according to the plan. The degrees were selected to lead to actual jobs. They go to state schools, and not the "flagship" one. Both have conditions which disqualify them from the military so this is the best route for my family IMO. Maybe one day they will be able to help me out. 

Rags's picture

His degree will be an AS in Diesel Technology. He won a full scholarship from a prominent equipment distributor/maintenance company. They are paying him $20/Hr to go to school and work full time.  He is in class M-Th then works full time (F-Sat). At the end of each year they pay his full school costs to him in one check.  He also won two other scholarships that pay him $6K/yr.  So he will be earning nearly $42K/yr in wages on top of his scholarships and having 100% of his education costs covered by his employer. As a student he is not allowed ot work O/T for his employer.  They are paying him well enough that he can live comfortably on 40hrs/wk which includes his class time.

There are ways to get through school without debt.  His plan is to complete the rest of his Bachelor's while working full time after finishing his Associates.  His goal is to be a High School Shop/Ag teacher which he can do full time while also working full time in Diesel equipment maintenance. He will earn far more working on equipment than he will teaching but teaching will get him a pension.

If his idiot parents don't screw it all up for him, he should do well.

JRI's picture

My daughter and I toured many colleges.  I was prepared to pay living costs and tuition at a state school.  She chose a private school out of state in a large city.  So, I paid tuition but she got a loan to cover living expenses.  I figured tuition was a fixed amount but living cost was variable and that would teach her to economize.  She didn't need a car there, public transportation was available 

I didn't ask questions about her finances, she needed to experience it all herself.  She ended up working part time and stayed there during summers.

I was lucky, didn't have trouble getting any of our 5 to leave.  Sometimes, I wanted to leave, too.  Lol.

Trudie's picture

...is a tough one, as there are so many variables.

I did not receive one penny, from my parents, for my education. (Good or bad, I am sure this has colored my viewpoint.) So, I know it can be done because I did it. Yes, it was tough. My daughter graduated at age 17; 1 year later she graduated with an AA and AS; 2 years later she graduated with 2 BS degrees. I did help by paying some tuition and all types of insurance, but she did it mostly on her own. She worked 3 jobs and incurred a small amount of debt which she is free and clear of. By age 21, she was seeing the fruits of her efforts; at her second post graduate job she was working for a very successful firm with her own assistant. She left after a year for a more lucrative position and has been rewarded well financially and promoted. She is 26. She has written her own ticket with brains, determination, and social skills. My son graduated with an AS and zero debt. I helped him in the same way, by paying some tuition and all types of insurances. Although he has brains and social skills, he has a different level of determination and has opted out of more schooling at this time. He has a good job, recently bought a house, and is content. He is 25. My daughter and son are polar opposites. I love them both equally; yes, I am proud of their achievements but that love is not based on their achievements. I am more proud that they are kind and functional adults. So, yes, I did help them but their achievments were their own.

Conversely, my huband's children were taken care of fincancially and he was not fully in a position to do that. That still affects him to this day. He is fine, but has not been able to build his own wealth to the degree he could have.

What works for one family may not work for another. Steplife has got to put a whole different spin on things. I am so fortunate we did not go through the college days together; our differences in child rearing would have been really challenging.

Harry's picture

Today,  this is the first step. A new 40 hour job.  Then could look into college. It's late to apply for college in September,   DH will pay as long as he passes his classes. Not sleep through them 

Merry's picture

There's never been a plan or expectations about what an adult child is expected to do? That's almost abusive, imho.

If that's the case, you have to start small. What skills does SS need to live on his own? Can he handle a bank account? Pay bills? Make a budget? Buy groceries? Make medical appointments for himself? Clean a kitchen?

Does he want to go to college? Trades? He has to do something productive. It's not realistic to expect him to pay for college or training if he doesn't have any income. So you need a long-term plan to wean him off of dad's wallet. Exactly what that looks like depends on DH's financial ability (that doesn't bankrupt the rest of the household).

Why has DH postponed this for so long? Does he think that SS will just magically become a responsible adult?

You also need consequences if SS won't do these things and expects to sit on the couch while everyone serves him. If DH isn't willing to provide those consequences (shut off WiFi, no car, no spending money, no travel, etc.) then you're fighting a losing battle. 

ESMOD's picture

I re-read the original post after your response and I agree.. it would be pretty darn unfair to put your foot all the way down when the kid has had zero expectations by his parents to date.  He has only acted and done what he was trained to do.

But, that doesn't mean that you need to ignore and just accept the status quo.

First.. I get he has been a lazy teen.. but I'm also guessing that he JUST graduated high school this past May? It's not like he is a 27 yo still sitting on the couch as an adult..  So, approaching this in a reasonable manner is important.

I am surprised his father hasn't had more of a handle on what his kid was going to do this summer.. why as a parent he wasn't interested in encouraging the kid to get a summer job.. or as most other kids have done by now.. applied to colleges.  but I'm guessing that at this point he will be more community college material?

I would also be a bit upset at your DH as to why he hasn't taken more of an interest in his kid's future.. what did he think the kid would do? why hasn't he had conversations in the past few years on this topic with the kid.. what is wrong with  your HUSBAND that he has allowed his kid to not have any launch plans?

I mean.. if dad has kind of given the impression he will send this kid to school.. it would be awfully shocking to the kid to hear differently I'm thinking. 

So, put your foot down? maybe not.  Have a productive talk with your SO on when he will help his kid figure out his future.. or at least a start to it... yes.  You definitely have a say in what happens in your home.. but dad and son need to tackle the future plans part.. and if he doesn't intend to do it now? when? is he giving him the summer off?  knowing what his thought process is would be helpful.

Rumplestiltskin's picture

Agree. At 18 and never having had a job, what will he pay rent with? Does he even drive? I, too, can't believe this is just now coming up. Well, i can, but i agree with you that a month after graduation is pretty late to start thinking about it. What college will he go to? What will he study and what will the degree allow him to do? Have they considered the skid's aptitudes and what type of person he is? You don't steer an introvert into sales or someone who can't do basic math into engineering. Is the kid even a decent student who can discipline himself into studying? If not, college may be a waste of time and money. Also, if financial help is given, they need to be upfront about the limitations. Such as "If you fk up and don't do your part, the gravy train ends. This is what doing your part looks like." 

advice.only2's picture

We always told all the kids (bio and step) that once they graduated high school it was their choice if they:

Wanted to work full time, no college and save up to move out.

Go to college part time and work part time.

Go to college full time and work a part time job if possible.

Join the military and GTFO lol.

We agreed to pay part tuition and part books the other half would be on them.